http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/articles/A1U/HVR-A1U.htm

I had the opportunity to prepare some footage prior to the WEVA show in Vegas next week, and so have spent the past 5 days with this camcorder.
For the buck, it's incredibly impressive. Low light, contrast, tele/macro, all impressive when the cost is taken into consideration.

Nice review.
I want one.
Maybe next year.

Douglas:

Nice review, but you don't talk about the gain. Is there NO manual gain??? This is simply unnacceptable for a professional product.

You're right. In my haste to look at various aspects of the camera during my writing, I failed to mention the gain options in the menu. I'll go back and add that, since the review is still in a slight state of flux.

You're right. In my haste to look at various aspects of the camera during my writing, I failed to mention the gain options in the menu. I'll go back and add that, since the review is still in a slight state of flux.

So there is manual gain...Ooof, what a relief... I was planning to get this camera as a 2nd unit cam to the upcoming HVX, and the lack of this was making me seriously reconsider other options... But now I'm relieved. Any release date for it, Douglas?

Douglas

In your review you say that you replaced the Sony mic with a different hypercardioid mic. Can you let me know which one it was ? Was it an AT mic?

Also could you expand a little on the technicalities of the 'Black Stretch' feature please and is that the primary reason that you were impressed with the low-light performance?

Also is there direct control over the aperture?

many thanks in advance.

The camera is out now. I just picked one up from Circuit City this weekend. You might want to go check out the display model and see if it has what you're looking for.

The camera is out now. I just picked one up from Circuit City this weekend. You might want to go check out the display model and see if it has what you're looking for.

The a1? Not the Hc1? Hmmm... Need to go to Hong-Kong then...

The camera is out now. I just picked one up from Circuit City this weekend. You might want to go check out the display and see if it has what you're looking for.

surely you mean the HC1 is out now.
- My question to Douglas relates to the A1 which won't be on sale until approx. September.

I'm certain that Chris Hink was referring to the HC1.

I have had my fill of bottom loading. I'd need a Firestore to even consider it. Might as well get an FX1, then...

Douglas

In your review you say that you replaced the Sony mic with a different hypercardioid mic. Can you let me know which one it was ? Was it an AT mic?

Also could you expand a little on the technicalities of the 'Black Stretch' feature please and is that the primary reason that you were impressed with the low-light performance?

Also is there direct control over the aperture?

many thanks in advance.

Stu,
There is direct control over the aperture via the exposure paddle lever, but the downside is you don't get feedback as to where the aperture is physically. In other words, no 1.8, 2.4, etc. You only get a shutterspeed indicator.
As far as the mic, you can put whatever you want on there. I happen to like the AT 4051 and 4053 mics. It's a fairly standard sized mount.
As far as black stretch, it's a great feature, but not the *main* reason I was impressed with low light. The lowlight capability is better than the FX1/Z1 simply because of the CMOS. Black stretch only enhances that. There's a lot of commentary about Black Stretch here on the HDVInfo.net site, search around, you'll find lots of words about it.

I'm I reading this right - the low light on the A1 is better than the FX/Z1? . I thought we had the FX/Z1 at 3 lux and the HC1/A1 at 7 lux .
I have both the FX1 and HC1 and i'm getting a far better picture in low light with the FX1 with the HC going half way there before the grain gets way bad.
Paul

The lux rating of the A1 is definitely worse, but the picture quality is better. If you looked at my comparisons of the HC1 vs the Z1, the HC1 had better light but less saturation. The CMOS allows for some significant processing, as does the Advanced Image Processor. (Now I sound like a Sony engineer) I don't know what they do exactly, and without a manual or engineer that can tell me more, I can only go on what the cam shoots and my eye sees.

I'm taking the A1 and Z1 out tonight for a shoot with the A1 mounted to the Z1 like I did with the HC1, I'll set both to auto, and we'll see what we get.

Stu,
There is direct control over the aperture via the exposure paddle lever, but the downside is you don't get feedback as to where the aperture is physically. In other words, no 1.8, 2.4, etc. You only get a shutterspeed indicator.
As far as the mic, you can put whatever you want on there. I happen to like the AT 4051 and 4053 mics. It's a fairly standard sized mount.
As far as black stretch, it's a great feature, but not the *main* reason I was impressed with low light. The lowlight capability is better than the FX1/Z1 simply because of the CMOS. Black stretch only enhances that. There's a lot of commentary about Black Stretch here on the HDVInfo.net site, search around, you'll find lots of words about it.

Many thanks for that Douglas.
One thing just to clarify on the exposure lever : when you say you have direct control over the aperture, do you mean that on the A1 you can adjust the aperture ONLY, i.e. isolate it from the gain? On the HC1 (and on my HC1000) adjusting the exposure manually like this adjusts the exposure up or down in stops, but the camera then decides what aperture and gain settings to set, by using a 'lookup table' depending on current metered light levels e etc.
- Is the 'bar' that you refer to a 'bar' indicating exposure level, or indicating the aperture setting (i understand it doesn't give the f-stop value).

in other words on HC1 you can fix the shutter speed but the camera won't let you fix the shutter AND the aperture. I'm just trying to nail this one down if i can as one of the principle things that was a tad disappointing on HC1 was inability to perform an 'aperture priority' mode (to draw a stills analogy).
thanks again.

I've just been playing around with the controls on my HC1 and what I find is that if I fix the shutter speed at say 1/60 then use the exposure lever to adjust, even though the Shutter Speed button is then greyed out on the menu, it does still stay at what was set, and the aperture varies when you alter the lever. Now of course the range is only small (f1.8 to f4.8) so adjustment outside that range at the low end involves adding gain to the sensor amp(which you see on the data code).
At higher light levels the only way to bring the level down to the correct range would be to raise the shutter speed (which of course we have fixed).

In fully auto mode the camera goes through 4 stages of adjustment from low to high light levels
1. There is a variable gain 18dB amplifier for low light levels. Shutter speed is 1/60
2. The aperture starts to reduce from f1.8 towards f4.8 (7X)
3. At the same time there is an varying adjustment in the DSP reducing the gain eventually by about 7X
4. At high light levels the shutter speed is raised - highest I have seen is 1/250 but I'm sure it goes higher for snow!

Hope this helps the discussion!

Gerald

Thanks for that Gerald.

So it sounds like the HC1 in that respect in that the exposure lever of course does adjust exposure, but it's not possible to force the camera to adjust ONLY the aperture or ONLY the gain. - it decides on gain and aperture levels.

What i'd been hoping is that you could fix the shutter speed and then use the exposure lever to tell the camera "this is to adjust APERTURE ONLY - do whjat you have to do with the gain to get the correct exposure".

Obviously you can choose a PROGRAM AE mode like Portrait which will bias the exposure towards larger aperture for lower depth-of-field, but it's not the same thing as having direct control over aperture only or gain only.

Am i correct in saying that the data code info is, as per the HC1, only visible in playback of footage, and not available on screen during shooting?

thanks again

Stu,

Yes unfortunately the data code is only available on playback! This means that there is no way to tell what the exact aperture is while you are recording. Of course, with the aperture range being so small there really wouldn't be a lot of benefit - for instance it's very different from the f1.6-f11 range that I have on my old GL1 - which did give you a lot of flexibility in depth of field!

Gerald

Stu and Douglas,

I have a correction to make!!! Hope you were not too much misled!

When the shutter speed is fixed at 1/60, the aperture on my HC1 actually goes to a min of f9.6 at highest light levels using the exposure lever. On Auto the aperture min is f4.8 after which the shutter speed varies.

I now agree quite well with Lorins analysis (though his camera stopped at f8) - see the "High Dynamic Range" thread.

Gerald

Hello all,

This is my first post here. I have been lurking here for a while, and I finally needed to inquire something myself. Most of the time, all my answers are already addressed to.

Douglas, in your review, you mentioned that the A1U will have a street price of $2700 USD. That has led me to hold on purchasing my HC1 and wait for the A1U to come out. However, when doing more research on the A1U around the net, I only see pre-order prices at around $3500. SONY's press release also states that it will be released at around $3500.

I am definetely not willing/able to spend $3500 on the A1U, but $2700 is feasible.

Thanks in advance...

Just curious - that press release said early fall - is there any likely chance for "late summer" release?

Cheers and thank you!

Mark

I can't comment on the ship date, I will have one with me at WEVA next week if you'll be there to see it.

Douglas, could you address my question regarding where you got $2700 from? That is keeping me from going through with the HC1 and I wanted to know if that statement is valid still.

Also, you will have an A1U next week? Are you planning on reviewing it further?

Thanks in advance...

One place here in sweden charges about 2800 + VAT for it. I think they are accepting orders now. Electronics stuff tends to be a lot more expensive here.

Sony Broadcast Professional's HDV senior product manager told me that the list price hadn't been fixed in stone, but the street price would be approximately USD$2700.00.

Wow...that would be amazing. Thanks a lot Douglas.

Do you know if that will be the price when it starts to be sold? Do you have any predictions as to when exactly it will be sold? Also, are you getting a hold of the A1U next week again? I would love to hear more about it.

Thanks a lot for the price update.

I still have the A1U, and will have it til the end of the WEVA show this coming Wednesday night. I don't know an exact shipping date, and for me to "guess" wouldn't be appropriate. Sony said mid-september, so I assume that's the time period. I'm buying one. My two gripes are pretty minimal, and it's so small, it's a great "Put on the ATV and go" sort of camera.

Wow...you are so lucky.

Since you still have it, you might be able to address some concerns that I having. First of all, do you feel that the A1U is worth the extra $700? Seems like paying $700 for the mediocre audio module and lens hood might not be worth it. Aside from the assignable button, is there independent control of gain and iris, or is it only manipulated via the exposure lever? What other internal features does it provide that the HC1 does not? Does the HC1 also have the "black strech" feature you mentioned? Finally, and most importantly, have you noticed any signs of the rolling shutter effect that people have been complaining about on the HC1?

Are you able to see that effect with the A1U?

Your review is very detailed. However, I was wondering if it's possible to have more comparative information between the A1U and the HC1.

Seems like paying $700 for the mediocre audio module and lens hood might not be worth it..

The audio module sure looks identical to the one on my PDX-10. If that's the case I wouldn't call it "mediocre," unless you also feel that way about the PD-170. I connects through a "smart shoe" and not the 1/8" miniplug like a Beachtek would use.

If this camera is like the others in Sony's lineup (PD-170 vs VX-2100, PDX-10 vs HC-1000, HVR-Z1 vs HDR-FX1) then there will be a number of additional controls which are mainly implemented in the firmware. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the consumer versions are crippled by their firmware ;-) It's interesting to look at the price comparisons (these are from B&H)

HC-1000: $1,400
PDX-10: $1,600 (with rebate)
14% more for the pro version

VX-2100: $2,400
PD-170: $2,900 (with rebate)
21% more for the pro version

HDR-FX1: $3,100
HVR-Z1: $4,800
55% more for the pro version

Now I don't know when the a1 will sell for $2,700 but using the current B&H prices we have

HDR-HC1: $2,000
HVR-A1: $3,500
75% more for the pro version

But if the A1 does sell for $2,700 that would make it cost 35% more than the HC1. Interestingly, that would place it right about where one would expect in this lineup....

Hi Douglas
Can you tell me if the HVR-A1 will record in HDV 16:9 while simultaneously exporting a (Firewire) DV SD 4:3 like the Z-1? Can a previously recorded HDV tape be played back on the HVR-A1 and exported to DV SD 3:4?

I have the FX-1, which will NOT convert HDV 16:9 to DV SD 3:4 (only DV 16:9). If I could play back recordings made on the FX-1 with the A1 and do the DV 3:4 conversion, it would solve a major problem for us.

Thanks,
Ben Hardy

Thanks for the price comparisons. It helps to see it in perspective like that.

Regarding the firmware enhancements you have mentioned, I don't see a lot of difference. Something that stands out is DVCAM (which I don't see a big deal about it), CineGamma and CF24/30. Other than that, the features look quite similar to the HC1.

If the price is indeed $2700, I will probably go for the A1 as I feel will be ideal for someone who wants to have the professional options while at the same time being able to "convert" it into a compact travel camcorder.

I would not pay $3500 for it, as I feel I would benefit more from the FX1. Some concerns that I have is the lack of manual gain. I also despise the idea of not being able to know the aperture and gain settings while recording (only through playback). I also wish SONY would have included a 250k LCD screen on the A1. Other than that, it seems it might be worth the money.

I am really concerned about the rolling shutter effect that I previously mentioned. I am dying to see if this effect is present in the A1U. Hopefully Douglas will be able to test for it before he returns the A1U.

I came across this site while surfing the net today:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=0&p=2&sp=141&id=80897

Looks like the official list price is $3100. Hopefully the $2700 stree price is not unfeasible.

Douglas, you mentioned that it lacks B&W EVF? On the site it shows it as a feature. Could it be a pre-production thing?

Also, I love the fact that it has true 24P recording ability...sweet.

I came across this site while surfing the net today:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=0&p=2&sp=141&id=80897

Looks like the official list price is $3100. Hopefully the $2700 stree price is not unfeasible.

Douglas, you mentioned that it lacks B&W EVF? On the site it shows it as a feature. Could it be a pre-production thing?

Also, I love the fact that it has true 24P recording ability...sweet.

Could well be that it's a preproduction/prototype thing, because on this camera, you notice I didn't talk about DVCAM much, except to say "It does it." DVCAM shows up in the menu, but I can't record to it. There is no B/W VF on this one, menu or otherwise. However, it doesn't shoot 24p, it shoots CF24.

On that website, under highlights it says:

60i/30frame/sec, 24 frame/sec with 2:3 pulldown switchable

isn't the 2:3 pulldown basically true 24p?

Douglas, where to able to test the rolling shutter effect that I mentioned? I'm wanting to know if it will still be present on the A1U.

I agree that's confusing, but I'm sure this is the "cineframe" feature that the FX1 and Z1 have. Look on the specs page, it says: "Scanning System: 1080.60i", and also note the wording under the features tab: "CineFrame™ and Cinematone™ functions for cinema like recordings (30F/24F)"

A lot has been said about the Cineframe modes of the latest Sony cameras.

I have decided to do some testing myself and have been VERY pleased with the results, as well as my customers. I also worried about the fact the having no progressive mode on the HDV cams would be a disadvantage.

If the CMOS chip on the A1 is what its made out to be, then the A1 would definitely be advantageous for many options - even as a B roll cam.

I screwed up my own logic by getting a FX1 first and THEN hunted for a B roll camera and wound up getting the Z1! Now hows that for logic! I will admit that I am definitelt not sorry and from what we are hearing about it, the A1 would definitely be a good second choice.

If memory serves me correctly, I think DSE and his team have more than one Z1 and having an A1 would make sense.

Seems Douglas has some work on his hands:) - any news yet on the A1/Z1 comparison??

Cheers

On that website, under highlights it says:

60i/30frame/sec, 24 frame/sec with 2:3 pulldown switchable

isn't the 2:3 pulldown basically true 24p?

Douglas, where to able to test the rolling shutter effect that I mentioned? I'm wanting to know if it will still be present on the A1U.
I haven't. By the time I saw your post, I'm already at WEVA, and given the cam back for the night, but I'll have it again tomorrow, and will try. How is it that you're seeing the rolling shutter?

if you are looking for rolling shutter, just shoot something with vertical lines passing front of the camera......
there, if it is present, you will notice it instantly....

Boyd, I don't understand why that would be listed twice on the features page unless it were separate features. They specifically list it 24 frames/sec with 2:3 pulldown and then separately they list CineFrame, etc.

Yes DSE, just shoot something vertical that is moving across the camera and you should notice it.

Well feel free to believe what you like. Sony doesn't claim it's 24p, they say "24f" and they say it uses interlaced CCD's. I don't think the pulldown has anything to do with it, you need progressive CCD's to shoot 24p. They're simulating 24p. This topic has been discussed at great length with regard to the FX1 and Z1. Here's an article on Adam Wilt's site:

http://adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

Hmmmm....I thought the HC1/A1U sensor was progressive...read for yourself:

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/001840

"The CMOS imaging sensor has roughly 3.8 times as many pixels as the 1/6-inch design used in the firm's DCR-PC1000 SDTV camcorder released in March 2005, and pixel pitch is about 2.35£gm. The new model can shoot 1080p at 60 frames/s, converting the imagery into 1080i at 60 fields/s."

Very interesting....

Was the article wrong or do they know something we do not?

Well, I don't think so. This is the second article from an Asian source that states that. I can't find the other url, but I know it is out there...

This is all very interesting, and I have no idea where the truth lies. But if the camera is indeed progressive, don't you think it's odd that Sony isn't touting this as a selling point? Their own brochure says it's 1080i and 24f. Other manufacturers who are using true progressive scan CCD's (XL2, DVX100) have made this very clear.

Now since the A1 and HC1 can also take high res still photos, I assume there must be some way to progressively scan the CCD in order to do this. That isn't the same as being able to shoot 30p video however. Just look at the PDX-10 - it shoots high res stills in progressive mode, but can't do this for video. Or the PD-150 which also shoots progressive stills, and can even shoot 15 fps progressive video but not 30p.

Alexander, I was just looking at the "highlights" page you mentioned earlier, "They specifically list it 24 frames/sec with 2:3 pulldown". Personally, I think you have taken this out of context - you aren't quoting the full text of what Sony claims. The exact quote is: "60i/30frame/sec, 24 frame/sec with 2:3 pulldown switchable."

You left out the important first part: 60i/30frame/sec. I think this should be interpreted as meaning:

60i/30frame/sec

or

60i/24frame/sec

And the significant thing is the use of the "i" and "frame"

But perhaps DSE or someone who really knows the truth about all this can provide a definitive answer. The A1 does look like a very interesting product. (but I'm still glad I got a Z1 :-)

Boyd, I do agree with you that it is quite unclear when looking at the "highlights" list. I just don't know why they would list it separately. But I guess you are right.

However, regarding the progressive chip, the answer is simple: product differentiation. If the HC1/A1U was released with the ability to record in progressive, who in their right minds would by the FX1? The feature would also be given for "free" for the price that the HC1 is being sold at. I am sure they are waiting for later models to integrate that ability into.

I don't understand SONY sometimes, but I believe that those articles are indeed true.

Boyd and Alexander,

Surely the HDV recording standard is 1080i 60f. There is no way to record progressive on the HDV tape even if the actual readout from the CMOS chip is progressive. That would be true for any HDV camera including the FX1/Z1. The only thing that Sony might have done is to provide the capability to output the analog Component Video in 1080p instead of 1080i - but there are no TV displays at present to watch the result (though it could be displayed on some computer monitors). The HDV standard does allow for 720p - which is what JVC chose for their consumer camcorder, but of course that does have a lower resolution! True 1080p recording would require a 2X data rate on the tape - or MUCH heavier compression - not going to happen!!!

Gerald

I agree...but who is to say that TVs won't be capable in the near future? I mean, SONY is selling HDV camcorder like candy and HDTV is still far from mainstream. I think that the technology is already there, all they're doing is waiting for the right time.

Boyd and Alexander,
True 1080p recording would require a 2X data rate on the tape - or MUCH heavier compression - not going to happen!!!

Gerald

They could do 30/25/24p with no penalty, and better compression than interlace.

Stu,
There is direct control over the aperture via the exposure paddle lever
Douglas

I have read through here and the article, and I noticed that there is not a clear answer to the question of where ever the aperture can be adjusted independently by itself (or if gain can). You seem to mention it, but it is not entirely clear where ever you where talking about readouts or actual controls.

While the camera doesn't provide aperture settings, or even gain indicators measured in dBI failed to mention the gain options in the menu.
What is the answer, is it the same manual control setup as the HC1?

Thanks

Wayne.

Is this better then Z1?