Hey Guys... So I just bought a Canon XH A1 and love it so far. I shot my first wedding and of course, the reception was poorly lit...I did the mistake of setting my camera to Auto Gain...and the footage turned out really grainy. So I'm thinking of switching off the Auto Gain and using the manual gain switch.... am I correct in doing that? and any tips or hints would be great..I want to film a low light reception without grain.

Don't use auto gain and don't go above +9 gain.
I would suggest bringing a 1k open face light and bouncing it off of the ceiling to bring up the light level in the room.

Using auto gain is the same as using auto iris or auto shutter - a real no-no in pretty much any movie-making situation. You've found out pretty quickly which you should see as a good thing - though your current clients might not view it this way.

First thing you need to learn is that dimly-lit weddings mean you should stay at wide-angle and limit your gain-up to +9dB. And get yourself one of these 160 LED lamps - they're cheap and light (!) and will run off rechargeable AAs for hours. Wouldn't be without mine.

tom.

Hi Mario

Personally I don't go above +6db gain. You can use the camera menu options to assign gain values to the manual gain switch - mine is currently L = +0db M = +3db H = +6db (some like to set L to -3db).

Remember you can always raise gain/gamma/brightness levels in post. Whether you use in-camera gain or tweak later you should consider applying a degree of simple picture softening to reduce the dancing pixels (or look at the Neat Video plugin which receives favourable reviews).

Better than applying any gain in some low-light situations is reducing shutter speed. For PAL this means stepping down from the normal 1/50 to 1/25. Lots more light and no added grain, but it depends on your situation - for subjects with little movement (i.e. speeches) you should be OK, but with moving subjects (such as dancing) or any real necessary camera movement you may suffer the 'strobing' effect.

An on-camera light is also an excellent solution to darker environments (beware of burning out the whites by getting too close during dancing).

Mario --

I generally second what Rob said except that, in the region where I work, nobody wants video lights at their receptions and all of the venues for ceremonies forbid video lights. Another trick I've used is switching to recording in 24F rather than 60i. The slower speed means more time to acquire light. Reducing shutter speed and using 24F as the recording format also gets you the "film look" with the shooting restrictions that entails. Basically, what it entails is shooting full wide on the zoom (because the as you zoom-in the camera loses the ability to use the widest apertures) and tracking (moving side-to side with your subjects) rather than panning the camera. You want to use manual focus rather than auto-focus because really dark areas can confuse the autofocus to where it "hunts" and goes in and out of focus.

The Neat video plug in seems to be highly thought of, as you will discover if you do a search of these forums. There are versions for CS4/5, FCP, Vegas, PInnacle Studio and probably several other NLEs. Neat also makes a similar plug-in for Photoshop, so be sure you look for the Neat video plug-in rather than just the Neat Noise Reduction. There is a demo version that you can download to test out. I downloaded the demo several months ago but all the weddings I've shot this summer have had good natural lighting, so I have not yet had time to test it.

Also, remember a fair bit of the grain you will be seeing on your computer monitor while editing will be gone after the downconversion from HDV to SD DVD on TV (if that is your delivery method).

Don't be afraid to soften your HDV picture in editing to deal with grain - burn a few test DVDs and watch on TV to check results.

If grain is still really bad, you might consider desaturating the colour to a high contrast black and white where a grainy picture is more acceptable to the eye.

Thanks everyone for the help. I have a wedding tomorrow night.. Night wedding..so i'll be using all this info. Thanks

One more thing. I was looking at the wedding video last night that I shot with Auto Gain...and the reception turned out really grainy...is that something that the NEAT plug in will fix?

and Jay, your right..people do not want lights everywhere. they barely want the one on my camera. I use a Litepanels microlight with the LED's. seems to help alot. Just eats batteries.

Although white light may disrupt a reception. I have had luck using colour washes bounced off of walls and ceilings. It just looks like decor but ups the general light level.
Another one is softpoint light on the podium if they use one. The wedding party table is usually enhanced with more light.

This is getting almost beyond the department of the videographer and into set dec. but it does produce good results.

I have never used a cameramount light and never intend to. It seems rather invasive. I prefer being very candid and fitting into the crowd, always looking like the camera is rolling and getting people used to it and to me as another friend in the crowd.
People also get used to the brighter lights. Especially if they are already set before the guests arrive.

Neat Video is a great crutch, buy it, but try not to depend on it. It can remove the noise but the detail won't be there that you could have gotten with better camera settings and using the best lighting you can get away with. Also your computer will spend hours processing Neat Video.

Just a few watts of soft light on the camera can make a big difference and still not blind people. The lower shutter speed is good for many situations provided the artifacts are acceptable. Just be sure the client understands the options and limitations on video in a low light venue. As noted by other, Neat Video can help in many circumstances but is not a cure all.

The trick is to deliver something that is better than the client expects.

also... Manual mode on the camera..when I switch it to that, the video is not smooth...big delay. i'm sure i have some setting wrong for that mode.

You have been given a lot of good information here and i'm sure it will help a great deal.Shooting 30 or 24F will certainly give you more light tahn 60I. I find 24F to extreme in some cases and tend to stick with 30 frames if I need more light. I would also suggest getting to know the camera more before accepting to many gigs with it. Its better to pioneer the process when the stakes arent as high.

Automatic gain is bad! I turned it off and set my L-M-H to -3db, 0db and +3db. I am mostly using -3db and 0db. Of course adding a video light is important too!

also... Manual mode on the camera..when I switch it to that, the video is not smooth...big delay. i'm sure i have some setting wrong for that mode.

I would learn to work in fully manual at all times, riding the iris and focus controls (auto focus is okay and handy for certain situations though it works better outdoors - beware of relying on it inside particularly when there are persons/objects or any detail behind the subject).

You say your video was 'not smooth' in manual mode - have you checked your shutter speed? In the USA you should be 1/60 - any lower (including Frame Mode) will cause strobing/stutter with reasonable camera or subject movement. Also, check the 'stabiliser' option is off. In darker environments try a lower 1/30 shutter for shooting fairly static subjects with little camera movement - the light gain is significant, and no added grain.

Take a look at the Neat Video plugin by all means - but first I would try some test burns of the existing grainy footage to examine on your television. The encoding to MPEG will take care of a fair bit of grain. Also your editor should have a 'soften/blur/gaussian blur' filter - apply one of those in different degrees to chunks of the affected footage and again examine a test DVD on your television to gauge which gives best results.

Taky: what is the purpose of negative (-3db) gain? I have noticed some grain can appear when editing at 0db, though it is not enough to bother about. Setting to -3db will help eliminate this? So the Canon's setting of 0db is not actually zero gain, or how else is -3db accurately explained?

Yeah, it's very interesting for Canon to determine 0db should be grain free. But it isn't the case. -3db will be really noise free

When we are filming, we are already at the 54 Db gain - so -3dB would reduce are starting point to 51dB.

Regards
Shelton.

So far, I've been VERY fortunate. None of my clients has objected to an on-camera light, and I've been able to talk most of them into slightly turning up the house lights at receptions. Every bit of light helps.

I put together a quick demo on how the Comer light works well at reception

Comer CM-LBPS1800 LED Light Spotlight Mode at Wedding Reception on Vimeo

Here's another video showing it lits up a wedding reception. Without the lights, audience don't even know where the live bang was singing.

Using Comer CM-LBPS1800 LED Light On Stage on Vimeo

Yeah, it's very interesting for Canon to determine 0db should be grain free.

The 0 db point was probably selected as the overall sweet spot in terms of available dynamic range of the sensor balancing noise, shadow detail and highlight detail/head room. Departures from that point compromise some aspect of the image, but that may be ok for the shot at hand. It is not grain free, but the grain may be acceptable for many purposes.

The fixed grain is due to the variation in dark current and sensitivity of the individual pixels. Using a slower shutter speed will tend to increase the visibility of this fixed grain pattern.

I second what Taky said. These are the settings to use. Set manual gain and then set the low medium and high settings to -3db, 0db and +3d

and leave it there. Outdoors, use the -3 and indoors the 0 or +3.

You'll love the results.

you can use for lowlight:
- normal gama
- SET 0 (!)
- PED -3
- gain +6dB with HDF M (important - less noise visibility)
- NR1 - 0 (!), NR2 - 0, COR - 0
- wide angle of the optics
- shutter speed 1/25
- light

Alot of ppl like the PFVISION preset. It was designed for low light receptions.

Hope this helps.

where exactly do I find the PFVISION on the camera? I've gotten pretty familiar with the camera and almost all the footage I take has a little grain to it..i've tried all kinds of settings... is it me or the camera?

Downloadable presets are in the "sticky" at the top of the threads list in this forum. For PFVision and a ton of others:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/126811-xh-custom-presets-download-library-copy.html

anyone have a good preset for weddings...usually low light.

I have been shooting regularly with my A1 for approx 10 months and have come to the conclusion that it is best NOT to use presets when shooting indoors, especially in low light. Shooting indoors low light for me means shooting presets off, Manual setting, aperture wide open, 1/25 shutter, HD at 25F not 50i. I have gotten excellent results with these settings even at +6db gain.

I shot an event in a terribly dimly lit venue a few days back using these settings, but with the addition of a CN126 LED light, and plan on tweaking the image in post. I will put some examples up once I'm done.

I noticed, even you can get good low light settings for your camera, without any additional light, it just makes the event less interesting. I have been to weddings (as guest) in dim ballroom where the photographer didn't prepare any additional light. When there are speech, toasting, games, and even introducing family members, the audience didn't really know where it is happening.

ok... I have been messing around with some settings....got everything looking pretty good, except for blacks and shadows...they are really grainy..almost cartoon looking... here is a pic from some footage I took. Shooting Auto, Manual white balance, Auto gain off. XH A1 grainy footage on Vimeo