Hi Friends:
Except for the Nano 3D (Which is a fad which will also soon die) the new AJA Ki Pro Mini just killed the Nano Flash dead ! It's a CF recording SSDR @ $1,995.00 See link here at News - AJA Video Systems (http://www.aja.com/news/index_article.php?id=125). This kills my SSDR on SD and SDHC, SDXC cards, but I will continue to perfect my prototype, because I spent too much money to turn back now. Have a nice day.

Well I don't know if I'd predict any deaths from AJA's announcement but I'd have to say that it's awfully compelling. 10bit, Prores, dual CF cards, real XLR inputs, 8 channels embedded audio, sized to compete with nano, killer price point. Awfully compelling and certainly worth a look.

Hi Aaron:
Well, it's not friggin MPEG -2 (Which I hate BTW), and it's *Not 8 bit, which is nice too ! Plus it's Quicktime base (Heart of Avid is QT). Media Composer now supports the Final Cut Pro Res 422 HQ, in HD and SD, so it's over ! - They win ! However, it doesn't do uncompressed (Yet ?). So Convergent Design could up them by enabling this feature on their Flash XDR. (??)

Something you've been looking for for a while eh Mark?
There's obviously much more to a decent bit of kit than specs (like reliability, ruggedness etc.) but like Aaron, I have to say it does look good.
Steve

Something you've been looking for for a while eh Mark?
There's obviously much more to a decent bit of kit than specs (like reliability, ruggedness etc.) but like Aaron, I have to say it does look good.
Steve...Hey Steve: Oh common man :-) ! You have to admit those specs look pretty darn good ! Now, if it turns out to be half-baked and unreliable, then that's another story.

Hi Mark. I wouldn't get your hopes up too much on uncompressed. I can't speak for CD, since I have no idea what their plans are for uncompressed on the XDR (although my manual lists it as a future feature), I would be willing to bet you'll never see uncompressed on the XDR or this little AJA box.

However, my Cinedeck seems to do uncompressed nicely :-)

You have to admit those specs look pretty darn good !

Yes, I did say that!

Just remembered it's uncompressed that you've been posting a lot about rather than 10 bit isn't it?
For me I think 10 bit 422 ProRes would be just the ticket. Still got an old tape Varicam, which has 10 bit full raster from the SDI, wonder what the AJA does about reading the Flags for variable frame rates?

Steve

Hi Steve:

I only want the uncompressed feature for digital cinema shoots and some effects plates, but normally I shoot Long GOP 50 Mbps.

Hi Mark,
AJA have not demonstrated to me a level of support which we enjoy from CD. I would want to see much more info on the unit, while Pro Res would make life much easier I do have concerns about Apples future in the pro market place. The lack of updates for FCP and the pro apps only leads me to believe that Apple may sell of dump the pro apps. I faced a very similar situation with Media 100 when they dumped the iFinsh system after I had invested in it, now I look at support 1st product next.

I have been wondering for some time when the major manufacturers were going to pounce on the Nanoflash. CD must have been watching the clock counting down to this date. Certainly, Canon has proved, with their new xf300/305, that they can produce solid cameras with CF HD-SDI 4:2:2 recording built in. Now, AJA has a solid recorder at under $2K. IMHO, it simply looks far more like a piece of rugged, professional production gear.

Dan, I think you really do have the best of intentions, and that you really do strive to help us, the customer. Your attitude on the phone, helping me through technical issues, has been stellar. You are truly a good guy. But, I have a major problem with the way CD operates: the company talks too much. A basic tenet of a good business is to under-promise and over-deliver. By saying so much about unreleased products and features, you raise expections. Then, when you fail to deliver on-time (or not at all, Mark?), you wind up with egg on your collective faces. Unless your goal is to freeze potential customers' purchasing decisions, causing them to not buy a competitor's product while you ramp up production on your own...

I love the way the Japanese companies operate— save for the occaisional concept camera (like the Canon 4K), they do not talk about unreleased products. They announce and ship.

Like real estate, when a house in your neighborhood sells below market value, you lose, too. We all just lost money.

Well I don't know if I'd predict any deaths from AJA's announcement but I'd have to say that it's awfully compelling. 10bit, Prores, dual CF cards, real XLR inputs, 8 channels embedded audio, sized to compete with nano, killer price point. Awfully compelling and certainly worth a look.

Yeah, everything about this new Ki Pro mini seems fantastic!

In all honesty, I probably would've went with this over the Nanoflash if they went to market at the same time. AJA has an excellent track record in my book with their products.

And I'm sure its reliability and ruggedness will be a step above... they are a mature video company. Their products have always had great, rugged, reliable builds. And this one certainly looks far better built than the Nanoflash.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Nanoflash... but AJA really seems to have a winner here!

Dear Jeff,

Our goal is not to freeze potential customers purchasing decisions.

Yes, we have failed to deliver a few promised features, such as full uncompressed for Mark, and are late on others, such as hot-swapping.

But, on the other hand, we have delivered features that were never promised originally.

Our goal is to communicate as openly as possible to assist our customers in their decisions and operations.

I was on the fence between the nanoFlash and the Ki Pro. I purchased a Nano based on the size and weight, but really wanted the LED metering, XLR (line/mic switchable) and front panel headphone out features of the KiPro. The Ki Pro Mini does look like the perfect combo of features and size. Can't wait to demo one.

for me , working on PC, this full compatibility and readiness with Apple is a drawback that would prevent me to purchase.

Some posts on this threads are rude and unfair angainst the Nano and CD. We are a lot of people here to appreciate the innovative technology of the Nano and the incredible quality support of CD's team. I don't know many compagnies which answer your emails even during the week end, or accept to be called 24 hours a day. That's very precious.

Everybody knows that it is always exciting to be the first one to try a new technology. Buying a Flash XDR or the Nano was a bit risky at the begining, but personnaly I don't regret my choice. It is exciting to help to develop the product and to see that CD's team is doing its best to satisfy consumers. Maybe the Nano was a bit a prototype when it was launched but that was part of the deal. This is the price you have sometimes to pay for a very innnovative technology I think. Now it works perfectly and I'm very happy to have been able to do what I've done with it, when it was the cheapiest solution for its quality.

Yes the KiPro mini sounds promissing on paper. It's always easier to copy and improve an original idea. But the Nano is smaller and lighter and it is certainly not "killed" yet. It's a living product with constant improvements. Please show a bit more respect to people who had the courage to be pionneers and have invested so much passion, work and energy. CD is a small compagny and needs some support too.

Discriminating post on a web forum can create a lot of economical damages. We need CD to continue to improve the Nano, and create new innovative products. So please don't discurage them by showing ungratefulness.

Competition is good. We need both AJA and CD and I whish to see one day a great Nano2 !

The mini KI-Pro is not the only one.
This is half the price:
Atomos - Enter The Ninja (http://atomos.com/)
Sure I will try to get a device that records Prores.
Will be a better tool to do my job.
But if Convergent-Design builds one, I will consider it before the other options.
For sure.
rafael
PS: Do not forget that those new designs are based in the posts that we have been hanging in this forum for the last two years.

Well, Gentlemen:

Yes, this new product, in a fancy, "professional" looking case, with oooodles of features at 2/3 the price certainly looks attractive. Just no question about it! And then there's that other new device at $1,000, even though it has a less reliable hard drive. If I were in the market today for a new device of these kinds, and knew nothing about CD, I would probably go for the new $2k device (but please see my ignorance leading to some questions at the end of this).

But, as it is, I have the nanoFlash, I have abundant experience with it. I know of its features and reliability. And its usefulness, and the recordings output it provides on my EX1 compared to what the EX1 alone, at its best, can supply! But that is only for starters. As a few of you above have commented, I also know about CDs superb customer service, which is just absolutely outstanding!!!!! And for this I am just not interested in anything else at the moment, and assuming that CD continues to provide this kind of service in the future, I will not be, unless someone comes out with a multifeatured device of 1/4th the size, and 1/10th the price - knowing the unbelievable advances that are extant, this could happen next week, or show up on a new camera under $10K as a dedicated feature within the camera.

But I will tell you that I for one will continue, at least for the moment, to recommend the nano to my friends (and enemies!), and to anyone who will listen. I have just sent e-mails to several other professionals about the new device referenced in this thread, as we trade info back and forth, and I think they should know about this new forthcoming product - but I continue to recommend the nano first and foremost, based upon my proven experience with it, and the superlative CD service. I had problems with the nano at the outset in attempting to edit with the Premiere CS4/Main Concept abomination combo - I won't go into what happened in my attempted contact with Adobe, or in my contact with Main Concept, as I don't want to get knocked off this site! What I will say is that CD came to my rescue with investment of considerable intelligent time and effort on their time, with a successful outcome. Just as I pay a LOT more for my prime editing computer built by Boxx Technologies in Austin, Texas because of their three year warranty and their wonderful, instant technical support, I will support CD for similar reasons.

And I am an incredibly happy camper now that the Adobe machine has FINALLY taken care to permit me to
edit on Premiere CS5 (after 5 months on the shelf, along with the rest of CS5).

As I have said more than once on this forum and quite a few others, there are three of my suppliers who have provided genuine customer service, and who therefore have my loyalty: CD, Boxx, and Cineform. I should have been more voluable about Olaf, because he is a fourth who built a custom device for me after I gave him design parameters and a totally unreasonable time frame - boy, did he come through!


Now, having said all that! I always detest my own ignorance and lack of understanding, and here it is, and my query. Given the specs on the new, competing $2K device, I am of the impression that it fits right in with Apple and is of prime benefit there, versus PCs - is this accurate? Second, on another site I just read that
it would not support 30p - is this true? Any civil, knowledgeable response to these two queries would be much appreciated, so that I may consider these issues in advising my friends!

Hi Willian,
Prores is supported in any PC with QT.
About the "no supporting 1080p30", is not like that.
As it happens with the NANO, 1080p30 has to be transported and recorder as Psf, so 1080i60.
rafael

William - with regard to your last comment :Apple vs PC - I had the same question. I have been an Edius user for over 5 years and with the new Version 6.0 on the horizon, I certainly won't be changing. What would a device mainly targeted to Apple Pro Res be of use to me or others in the same boat?

I really like my Nano and, as you and others have pointed out, I have not come across a company with such superlative customer service.

Form factor of the mini still look ungainly for the field compared to the Nanoflash. Could work for many situations.

William - with regard to your last comment :Apple vs PC - I had the same question. I have been an Edius user for over 5 years and with the new Version 6.0 on the horizon, I certainly won't be changing. What would a device mainly targeted to Apple Pro Res be of use to me or others in the same boat?

I really like my Nano and, as you and others have pointed out, I have not come across a company with such superlative customer service....Dear Barry: The A list main NLE (Avid Media Composer) now accepts the Pro Rez 422 HQ Quicktime codecs *natively. Now you can seamlessly go back and fourth between FCS and AMC to greatly enhance your workflow.

As yet another cameraperson who shoots for clients rather than for myself, I've found the Nano to have been a wonderful addition to my kit. I just looked at the KiProMini site and still can't figure out where to mount it to an EX camera for hand-held configuration. Nor would I particularly want a recorder that is limited to Pro-Res, since nearly half of my clients work in PC-only environments. (And often I can't find out what kind of files they need until I get to set or am already at a distant location.)
Admittedly every new technology has growing pains coming out of the box, but in the (almost) year that I've had my Nano I've seen firmware updates that have considerably improved its (and therefore my) capabilities.
More importantly, if I just look back over the time I've had it and count the number of Blue or Green screen jobs (for which I would probably have needed to rent a more expensive camera than my EX) and look at the camera rentals I've saved because of the Nano, I can definitively say it's more than paid for itself several times over. AND my clients have been happy with the results, AND several have requested that I use the Nano for ALL of my shoots with them.
Now isn't that what you look for in a piece of equipment?

Back to the original post...

Mark while I agree with your incredulity about the 3D interest/craze in the film biz. It's goofy but it has traction. The 3D nanoFlash rig is extremely useful to people in the film biz not the least of which is Steadicam ops that have to fly 3D rigs. The weight & size of the units allowing you to adapt smaller cams equipped with HD-SDI outs for 3D steadicam rigs makes it a really compelling product. And please don't talk to me about the Panasonic HVXesque 3D camera as the future. It has very limited application in the 3D space on a pro level. Enough of that.

Before I bought my nanoFlash I spent countless hours looking at the KiPro as well. There were and are still a lot of problems with it and a lot of it has to do with undelivered goods in the firmware, like giving the standard array of HD resolutions and frame rates, there are heat issues as well (if you use DSLRs as video cams you know what havoc heat can bring). The product hit the marketplace oh about a year ago (and delivered way late) and they struggled to get their firmware out to the level where they pitched the feature set for months in dog and pony shows around North America. I have lost track over the past few months of where they are at with the firmware but I would tread VERY carefully before you jump in and make sure they have delivered all of the things we take for granted in our nanoFlash.

It would be an interesting exercise to collect up the list of missing bits from the KiPro firmware as I am confident this new portable solid state 10bit 422 unit from AJA will share a similar firrmware as the KiPro.

Having said all that, I am still going to keep a close watch on this unit as 10 bit and Apple Pro Res are key considerations in the product that I really want as a solid state recorder. I am sure that CD have been working on a next gen product that at the very least has 10 bit output. It would be foolish not to unless their business plan is going in an entirely different direciton.

...Dear Barry: The A list main NLE (Avid Media Composer) now accepts the Pro Rez 422 HQ Quicktime codecs *natively. Now you can seamlessly go back and fourth between FCS and AMC to greatly enhance your workflow.

I stand to be corrected - after looking on several forums apparently Edius (Grass Valley) will accept Pro res 422 natively. Will have to download a sample and try it but it sounds ok.

the new AJA Ki Pro Mini just killed the Nano Flash dead !While I think it's a bit too early to be making such a pronouncement, I'm glad that you've found a viable alternative to something with which you've clearly expressed here many times before as not being satisfied. It means that you're about to conclude one chapter of your participation on this site and begin a new one, since we also have a Ki Pro forum.

...I spent too much money to turn back now. If you're a working professional and not a "hobbyist," then that statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You have either already recovered your costs on this gear or there's something seriously wrong with your business model. Assuming that your CD purchases have indeed paid for themselves by now, and going on your pronouncement that "Nano is dead," then surely you will do the sensible thing and sell off your CD gear and buy into the AJA line.

I can tell you that such a move would benefit me as well -- I can look forward to many happy posts from you in our AJA forum, and I'll no longer have to read this kind of doom & gloom nay-saying triggered by a press release in lieu of actual real-world side by side comparison.

I don't mind the occasional "_____ is dead" proclamation, but here's a word of caution regarding how I run this site. When you say something like that, it's good one time only. And I expect it to be a parting comment as one moves on to greener pastures. I won't allow someone to continue a lament about how "product Y just came out, so product X that I bought is dead now" because it simply doesn't make any sense for that person to hang on to product X if that's the way they really feel. Just get rid of it and move on.

Meanwhile, for those Convergent Design customers who find themselves unaffected for whatever reason by a press release, our CD forum will continue to thrive. Thanks all,