News - AJA Video Systems (http://www.aja.com/news/index_article.php?id=125)

I think this is a game changer. For $2,000 you can record 4:2:2 Pro Res. HDMI and HD-SDI.
Sweet.

Yep. I agree.

Fair price, commodity media, excellent codec, SDI/HDMI connectivity.

The next 12 months is going to be VERY fun for consumers and very stressful for numerous vendors.

I'm excited about this as well. I'm in a position to upgrade my whole kit so waiting about a year looks exciting. I have a funny feeling a few of these will be in my kit.

FYI, for those interested, here's a promo video.

AJA KiPro MINI on Vimeo

looks interesting. i have some questions maybe someone can clarify. first im unsure if this is a legitament question or not, but what would be the mbps in a unit like this(comparing to the nanoflash).

second, i am unsure as to what gets recorded via the hdsdi out. does the unit have to support the frame rate and resolution in order to record? for example, if i have variable frame rates and say shoot 2 fps at 1080p, will it still be able to be recorded on the unit through hdsdi? thanks for the help.

Daniel C. - Ki Pro Mini is designed to support the same flavors of ProRes that the original Ki Pro product supports: Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) up to 220Mbps as well as the lower data rate versions of Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (LT) and Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy). All recordings are 10-bit 4:2:2 in terms of color specificity.

Ki Pro Mini does have to support the frame rate and resolution output from the camera to be able to record it. Unlike the full size Ki Pro, the Ki Pro Mini does not feature up/down/crossconversions so if you feed it 1080i 25 or 1080i 29.97 or 720p 50 or 720p 59.94, that is what it would record. Some 720p framerates within larger frame rates (like 720p 23.98 within 720p 59.94) are supported, but not just any frame rate within a larger one will be accepted by the device.

Hope this information is helpful. I have to get back to the IBC tradeshow now.

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

yes thank jon, very helpful. and excuse my ignorance, but when you say up to 220mbps, this means that within the apple prores codec, the mbps or quality can be altered of different values?(much like the nanoflash). thanks again!

It was mentioned in the video that this unit could be used with HVX200, is this a slip or is there some way to achieve this?

(edit) Ah, watched watched the video again and realized that he was referring to the kipro, not the mini.

Daniel C. - Apple ProRes, in it's various forms, is an I-frame, variable bit rate codec. This means that the ceiling for Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) is at 220Mbps. "Regular" Apple ProRes 422 is at a maximum of 145Mbps (which personally I think is the sweet spot as it's a relatively low data rate, but extremely good quality).

For more detailed information on Apple ProRes compression, you should read Apple's whitepaper on the topic as it's very informative:
http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper_July_2009.pdf

Larry K. - Yes, Val's experience spoken about in the video - in that particular context - is with the original Ki Pro product which features component analog allowing you to connect to the Panasonic AG-HVX200.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Pls pardon for my Ignorance! is it possible to use apple prores on window based premiere pro cs4. I am really impressed with the mini kipro but afraid of the workflow on window based system.

Jon -

Is this essentially a competitor to the Nano Flash? If so, how does AJA compare the two.

Do a search for recent threads on DVInfo about the 2. Yes they are competitors - AJA have had the Ki Pro for some time now and it's quite large just like the Flash XDR, while the new Ki Pro Mini is small around the same size (ish) as the Nanoflash. The AJA is cheaper, the Nano arguably a bit more versatile? Quality wise I'd guess there'd not be much in it, both would be well above any broadcast standard you could currently need.
Steve

I'm excited by it, and really glad to see it does CF.

Between my Sony Z7U & Canon 7D I already have some CF cards, and the new Canon XF cameras use the format too I think these cards will just get cheaper & better.

I also like to see that for $2k & some change (or a bit more for the Nano Flash) I can transform my HDV camera into a more robust format when I have the need for a better codec. Though I haven't had the need yet to purchase something of higher quality, I like to see the competition between AJA & Convergent, as consumers I think we're winning big.

Agreed Zach - bear in mind that with these high data rates only certain speed of CF cards will work, so you may or may not just be able to use the ones you already have. But still, even buying new CF cards is not expensive, certainly a positive point of these units is the use of "consumer" media.
Steve

If you have never owned an Aja product, they are just outstanding. Great products and the best customer service in the business. I have owned the Aja Kona 3 since 2006 and nothing but top notch support from Aja. The KiPro Mini will be a ground breaking recorder and I cannot wait to get my hands on it.

Dan Brockett

Is the Aja KP Mini able to to some seconds of prerecording?

To All :
Sorry - somehow I missed replying after September on this particular thread! Not sure how I managed that... I usually notice the posts and manage to reply pretty quickly.

Olakunle O. - ProRes QuickTime files can be used on Windows as long as the latest QuickTime (version 7.6.x or higher) is installed. If you are using an earlier version of QuickTime, Apple provides a Windows ProRes decoder that can be installed. At this time, there isn't an encoder for Windows, so if you want to render effects, you'll need to create those with another codec.

Len C. - I suppose the Ki Pro Mini and the nanoFlash could be considered competing products. I think they are fairly different products and users will choose the product that best fits their particular needs. AJA isn't interested in producing a "comparison" or "shootout" document. We feel it's better to simply focus on what our product provides. If you have particular questions about the AJA product you feel aren't answered by our literature or website, you can phone or email AJA directly. Or (as long as I notice the posts!) inquire here.

Arnt M. - Ki Pro Mini does not provide a pre-record buffer.

Again, sorry I missed some of the posts in this thread,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Hi Jon
Since the Canon XH-A1 has a BNC video out can you use the ki-pro mini with it or is my only solution the Ki-Pro? Thanks.

Hi Jon
Since the Canon XH-A1 has a BNC video out can you use the ki-pro mini with it or is my only solution the Ki-Pro? Thanks.

L. Jeffrey M. - The BNC labeled as "Video" on the Canon model you have outputs composite video. The Ki Pro Mini accepts SDI or HDMI video, not composite. The Ki Pro also does not accept composite video, but does accept component which your camera also outputs:
XH A1 High Definition Camcorder :: Specifications (http://usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/XHA1/specifications.shtml)

If you would like to connect your camera to Ki Pro, you will need to use the cable supplied with your camcorder (which likely has RCA video connectors) and use RCA to BNC adapters. Your analog audio out of the camcorder could also be used with Ki Pro.

Again, Ki Pro Mini features digital video input only.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Thanks Jon. I was curious what the bnc output was. Looks like the ki-pro is for me then. Thanks for your time.

Jon,

I am wondering if there was any serious consideration to using DNxHD as a recording format? Also has compact flash become fast enough that ProRes 4:4:4:4 is a possibility?

Thanks much.

Peter M. - I can't comment on what codecs have been or may be considered for use in AJA products. You may or may not be aware that Apple ProRes QuickTimes are supported in Avid MC5 via AMA.

The Ki Pro Mini is a 4:2:2 recorder, so it does not support Apple ProRes 4444.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Very true, but DNxHD MXF performs better inside Avid than does ProRes QT via AMA. One could transcode, but then I'd be transcoding to DNxHD.

Also I feel uncomfortable using Quicktime as a passthrough. It has all sorts of gamma and platform issues I'd rather steer clear of.

Anyway, thanks for your help.

Hi Jon,

Does the kipro-mini output HDMI and HDSDI simultaneously? Meaning, if I was feeding an 10bit-sdi signal out of an EX1R or EX3 into the kipro-mini, would I be able to hook up an hdmi monitor to the kipro-mini output for a director/producer to view the live signal?

Thanks in advance for the answer,

Geoff Murillo

Geoff M. - Yes, the SDI and the HDMI outputs are active at the same time so you could monitor via HDMI from an SDI input.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Jon,
Thank you. That's great news.
-Geoff

I hope this is not a silly question but I've not used ProRes as an acquisition format before and wondered how it performs? I'm constantly told that MPEG2, XDCAM, HDV and other codecs are not really suitable for editing due to their cpu-intensive demands on a workstation (and this is born out by experience) but wondered if there are limitations to the ProRes codec which impair its ability in acquisition when compared, say, with MPEG2 at 100 or 160 mbps? Would I notice a difference is noise, dynamic range, gamma, colour sampling and so on?

Justin.

Justin B. - No such thing as a silly question. In my opinion, it's always good to ask for clarification if you feel you aren't clear about something. In my opinion, one major benefit of using the Apple ProRes 422 family of codecs is that they are native to Final Cut Pro for editorial. Apple has optimized the application for the use of these codecs (Dynamic RT, etc.). Apple ProRes QuickTime files can also be used in other applications including those from Adobe, Autodesk and Avid, but ProRes offers the biggest benefit to Final Cut Pro/Final Cut Studio users in terms of workflow. Additionally, Apple ProRes is a high quality codec family which exceeds the quality of the on-board recordings produced by many cameras (with the Apple ProRes 422 and Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) versions - the (LT) and (Proxy) versions serve other purposes).

Most cameras record to 8-bit codecs, sometimes at less than 4:2:2 quality, and sometimes with a downscaled picture. Using HDV as an example; it is an 8-bit, 4:2:0 codec that is 1440x1080 instead of full size 1920x1080. Compare this to Apple ProRes 422 codecs: 10-bit, 4:2:2 and full size. Why is this distinction important? Well, the more quality you can obtain at the outset, the more likely you are to maintain the picture quality throughout the post process - especially if color correction or keying tasks are involved. Additionally, the construction of a codec can play a role in how easily it can be used in post production applications. Generally, I-frame codecs are preferred and the Apple ProRes codecs are I-frame. Long GOP codecs are efficient during acquisition, but can be more processor intensive for post, as you noted.

In terms of picture quality, you generally want to use a codec that performs the least possible "harm" to the image as it comes from the sensor. In an ideal world, there would be no compression and you would get a one-to-one relationship to the image as acquired by the sensor, but this isn't very practical due to bandwidth considerations, so compression schemes have been produced to obtain a quality picture efficiently. The quality of Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) ranks alongside Panasonic D-5 and falls just a bit shy of the quality level of Sony's HDCAM SR (in 4:2:2 mode). This is good company for ProRes to be included with as Panasonic D5 and Sony HDCAM SR are considering mastering quality formats throughout the post-production community.

You mention comparing the ProRes codec to MPEG2 at two particular bit rates in your post. To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any 100Mbps or 160Mbps MPEG2 camcorders on the market, so I'm guessing you are referring to nanoFlash produced recordings which are limited to 8-bit quantization, but can produce 4:2:2, full size files at these data rates. Without going into a "shootout" comparison, I can say that these 100Mbps or 160Mbps MPEG2 files, if imported into Final Cut Pro, are perceived as 50Mbps since Final Cut Pro supports Sony's native maximum quality setting for Long GOP MPEG2 recordings in their cameras, which - as of this writing - is 50Mbps with the XDCAM HD422 codec. The suggested solution for working with these 100Mbps or 160Mbps files is to set the rendering of sequences within Final Cut Pro to ProRes to produce optimum quality results... which begs the question: why not start with the ProRes codec to begin with and as would be the case if a Ki Pro or Ki Pro Mini was used? That's as far as I'd like to take this particular comparison because I've always tried to be respectful of other companies even when we've been labeled as their competitors. AJA's goal is simply to provide useful tools to creatives to the best of our ability and I think a 10-bit 4:2:2 post-production friendly recorder tends to speak for itself, on it's own merits, without resorting to negativity about other products on the market.

With your questions related to noise and dynamic range, here you must first and foremost consider the sensor's performance. If the sensor is poor in performance (generally defined by the S/N ratio, but also by other factors), you essentially will produce a sub-par result before you even pass the signal on to a codec. If there are imperfections in the signal - such as noise - Apple ProRes tends to faithfully reproduce them. Conversely, if you have a good, clean source, then a "visually lossless" codec like ProRes will produce excellent results as the codec will faithfully reproduce as much quality as possible as defined by it's parameters.

If you would like a more expanded "considerations in choosing a codec" commentary, I'd be happy to provide that in another post - but this post is already getting rather long in my effort to properly answer you!

I hope you find this information helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Thanks Jon, for your fulsome reply.

I guess I am keen to see ProRes in capture as, to date, I have only used ProRes in post in Final Cut. I assume it performs as well in acquisition as it does on the timeline. Hopefully your continued investment in ProRes bodes well for FCS' future.

Thanks,

Justin.

Can the mini also be run as a standalone audio recorder? Meaning how are it's preamps and a/d converters in comparison to an sd702 audio recorder? Thanks!

Hi. Jon!

I know that the video cameras have two audio recording channel and AJA ki pro mini has two audio inputs for recording. I just wonder is it possible to use 4 inputs(from the camera and AJA) at the same time? (four channel recording?)

How about audio recording quality like?

If it does, I don't have to do all the things in editing :)

And, when does it come out? I heard that it came out last year, as a pre-order but not in the market :(

Bill B. - While you could use Ki Pro Mini to record high-quality 24-bit 48kHz audio, I personally don't think it replaces dedicated audio recording devices like the Sound Devices 702 Portable Audio Recorder; that device features more extensive audio inputs, audio-specific file types, a wider range of sample choices (32kHz to 192kHz), etc. Ki Pro Mini was designed to produce high-quality audio recordings alongside high-quality video, not act specifically as an audio recorder if that's your goal.

Having said this, one way you can record audio, without worrying about supplying an external video source, is by using the Video SG (signal generator) within the Ki Pro Mini to produce the video source and then elect to record the input audio signal via the balanced XLR connectors.

Even if you did use the Ki Pro Mini as an audio recorder, you might also want to keep in mind that you would be producing a video track along with the audio track. The recordings produced are QuickTimes with audio and video tracks; there is no provision for creating audio specific containers on Ki Pro Mini like Audio Interchange File Format, Broadcast Wave Format, etc.


Lydia K. - Ki Pro and Ki Pro Mini both support either 2-channel or 8-channel audio recording; 8-channel audio recording is only possible with embedded SDI audio. You could, I suppose, elect to use an analog to SDI audio embedder, like AJA's own HD10AMA mini-converter, to produce a multi-channel audio recording from multiple sources; camera, microphones, etc. Ki Pro and Ki Pro Mini do not support mixing two audio sources - such as SDI audio and analog audio - to produce recordings; only one source can be selected at a time.

Ki Pro Mini is not yet shipping. I do not have a ship date to offer at this time, but it is in QA and will be shipped when that process is completed.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Looks like the Mini started to ship today !

Looks like the Mini started to ship today !

From where? All of the normal retailers still say they are backordered.

From AJA
Link to AJA:
News - AJA Video Systems (http://www.aja.com/news/)

Started shipping Monday Jan 31. Who gets the first one?

I ordered one from Abel CineTech in Chicago in early January. Last week, they said mine would ship by the end of the week. When I emailed them yesterday to find out where it was, they told me that AJA only shipped them 2 units. (I think they said their initial order was about 100 units).

All of this would bother me a lot more, if I had the Sony PMW-F3 I was supposed to have. Unfortunately, that's back ordered, too.

I received a KiPro Mini for review from AJA on Friday 2/18. I have unpacked it but will not do any actual shooting until Sunday.

Very solid unit. My test unit shipped with the optional mounting plate and AJA sent me one 600x CF card.

Impressed with the dual XLR inputs and gain controls on front of unit. Note that the gain controls are for analog only-- no effect on SDI or HDMI embedded video.

I will experiment powering it from one of my Tekkeon batteries. I had already made a Tekkeon to 4-pin XLR cable.

Despite the fact that my 420X Delkin CF cards are not supported officially by AJA, I'll give them a try anyway. But I always note in my articles to take manufacturers' qualifications seriously.

Ned Soltz

Can't wait to read your opinion and learn from your tests.

Hi Ned,

Lookiing forward to your report.

Two burning questions I have about the unit is how is the fan noise on the unit and how warm/hot does the unit get in normal operation.

I understand there is a way, like in the Ki Pro, to ramp down the fan through the web gui, if noise on set is going to be an issue. But as has been reported the Ki Pro gets hot and I am truly wondering how they have managed to pack all the goodness they have of the Ki Pro into this small frame and get a near silent unit out of it.

If you wouldn't mind doing a few whip pans as well to see if the fan makes funny noises assuming you have the unit mounted to the camera package somehow. As well placing a mic on the camera, like a hypercardioid, would be good as a real world test to see if fan noise makes it into on camera audio recording.

Thanks!

Some very initial and preliminary reports-- My test unit shipped with 2 side plates. I know that Anton Bauer is working on a mount to a gold mount battery. What I did just for initial testing was attach a Noga arm to plate and then into hot shoe of EX-1.

The web config feature is great. Set the Mini to DHCP and plug into the network (no wireless feature as on the Ki Pro). Look in the config menu for the IP address assigned and just type that into browser. Full GUI set up.

Just testing for read/writes rather than for image, the supplied SanDisk Extreme Pro (90 Mbps) card kept up with ProRes HQ without dropping frames.

I find it a big bulky and heavy. Construction feels rock solid.

What I would like to see (and pardon me Jon and other AJA folks if the feature is there and I'm just missing it) is a way to lock the buttons. I always have a fear of hitting a button accidentally. Just a small point.

I like the 2 XLR inputs. There definitely might be times when one would want external audio. Headphone monitor jack on front is good positioning for it.

As I noted above, I made a custom power cable to connect the Tekkeon MP3450. Cable worked (and yes, Jon, I tested my homemade cable before applying power to AJA's KiPro Mini!) and the Tekkeon with its 50 watt capacity can power the KiPro Mini for a tad over 3 hours.

4-pin XLR power connector is very stable and I applaud he use of this locking connector.

One recommendation from Jay Ignszewski, our NE regional AJA rep, is to use the rod adapters from the KiPro exoskeleton to mount on rods (mock up that Jay showed was on Zacuto baseplate with the Zacuto gold mount battery plate and tap).

Next set of tests will be image quality tests.

Impression so far-- very sturdy and worthy product for those who want ProRes up to 422HQ.

I'm not one to do head-to-head comparisons and generally my editors really don't want to publish those types of comparisons. Decision of which unit to use is largely going to be based upon the codec that works for you in your project.

I strongly believe in taking manufacturers' card ratings seriously. Particularly with writing such relatively high data rates as ProRes HQ, the card needs a controller capable of sustaining that rate. Since manufacturers sometimes change card controllers and other on-board chips, AJA will continue to test and post qualified and non-qualified cards. Follow the AJA website.

Ned

I need to know when this thing is going ship???

Shaggy F. - The Ki Pro Mini began shipments the week of January 31st. AJA fulfills its orders by our resellers on a "first come, first serve" basis. Therefore, not all resellers may yet have units depending upon when they initially placed their order with AJA. There is also a sizable backorder of units at this time and it is being fulfilled as quickly as possible.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Good Afternoon,

I am debating between the two, nano and the MINI. The mini will do what I desire and that is capture via hdmi from my sony.

However, I am not an apple user. I use Vegas as my primary editor and Edius 5.0 for my rough cut editor.

I am slightly worried about the pro res quick time codec.

I would very much like a bit of pro res footage available to put through the hoops on my computer systems.

Is that posssible or out there to be had?!!!

Just got our Ki pro mini's this week. Shooting our thesis film this weekend with a PMW-350 and one of these, should be interesting!

Dale G. - The simplest way to obtain a sample Apple ProRes QuickTime file might be to contact your local AJA reseller for the Ki Pro and Ki Pro Mini. I believe your closest AJA reseller is Matrix Video Communications since you are located in Saskatchewan:
Matrix Video Communications Corp. (http://www.matrixvideocom.com/)

I know that Apple ProRes QuickTime files can be used in Sony's Vegas non-linear editor as I've seen ProRes files used in Vegas at NAB, IBC and other tradeshows, but I don't have any experience with Edius, sorry. However, the majority of applications that support QuickTime files can support the import and use of Apple ProRes files. Note: the Apple ProRes Decoder must be present for the footage to be viewed (it's included with the later versions of QuickTime and can be obtained for earlier versions of QuickTime from Apple directly as a download if needed.) Also, it's worth noting that the majority of Window's based systems (such as those you listed) are not able to export to the Apple ProRes codec; you could edit in Apple ProRes, but you might export to another codec for your final file. I think it would be sensible for you to visit your local AJA reseller, obtain some sample files and see if the Apple ProRes QuickTimes work for your workflow.

I hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Tim K. - Please let AJA know if you need any assistance or have any questions about the Ki Pro Mini; AJA Technical Support is free of charge and they are happy to help. If you aren't already aware, we are not recommending the Lexar CF cards since an issue came to our attention when using those cards. (I mention this since the qualified CF card list that shipped with your product in the box might be out of date.) For the latest qualified CF card list, please visit:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/KiProMini_qualifiedCF_cards.pdf

I hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Thanks Jon! Got the number already in my phone just in case. Not expecting any problems with the cards, we're using the Sandisk Extreme (IV?) Pro's.

On the AJA site is a short demo movie about the Ki Pro Mini and an Anton Bauer battery parked behind a Sony PMW EX1. Is there anyone from AJA that can list the part number and manufacturer for the rod adapter and plate that attaches to the Ki Pro Mini side plate? I've figured out that the base plate and 15mm rods (and I'm guessing 3.5 - 4.5 in. rod extensions) are from Zakuto but I'm unsure of the other pieces.

- Don

Don G. - What follows is a list of parts used with the Sony PMW-EX1 configuration in the video you refer to:
1x Zacuto Universal Base Plate v3 with 15mm rods and extensions
1x Ki Pro Rod End Plate which now has AJA SKU#*KIMINIRDNPLT-R0 (it's one part from what was originally the Ki Pro Rod End Plates kit for the original Ki Pro Exoskeleton)
2x Ki Pro Mini Mounting Plates
1x Ikan M-A Universal AB Mounting Plate
1x Anton Bauer Dionic 90 Battery
1x 2-pin P-Tap to 4-pin XLR adapter cable

I hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.