I'm an experienced photographer who recently switched from 100% Nikon to Canon with the 5D Mk II when I fell in love with the 5DM2's movie capabilities wherein my primary income business is video and thus the 5DM2 allows me to arsenal myself with two cameras in one for documentary and film work.

Thus with this background I am to wonder what I should do to outfit myself with a back up camera to my 5DM2 wherein I will have two 580 EX2 flashes and a somewhat limited budget.

On the one hand I love the feel of the 50D however specwise, it appears older technology. I love the specs of the T2i but it sure looks consumer or prosumer at the very best. Moreover, I hear there is a 60D coming out August 28 however, I'm not sure that: A) if it is right I will be able to get one; and, B) if I can get one, if I can learn to operate it in time for three wedding shoots the first three weekends of September.

Anyone care to offer some recommendations? Some insights to weaknesses or thoughts?

Assuming that you want a camera capable of shooting video then you can forget the 50D which is a stills only camera. The Canon cameras that shoot video equivalent to the 5DII are the 1DMk4, 7D & 550D/T2i but all of these are cropped sensor compared to the 5DII's full frame sensor. All have their pros & cons. The 550D/T2i is cheap compared to the other models. The 1DMk4 has superior low light capability & a fantastic stills camera but is much more expensive. The 7D has similar build quality to the 5DII & is a bit cheaper. All these cameras because of the crop sensor will add an effective 50% focal length to your lenses for 'free' so while this restricts your choice at the wide angle it saves you money at the long end. With these cameras you can use the the EF-S mount lenses & the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM is the widest zoom that Canon make with IS & well regarded.

All the above downs't answer your question but if I were in your situation & had the money I would probably get a 1DMk4 to complement the 5DII although another option is just to get another 5DII.

..... All the above downs't answer your question but if I were in your situation & had the money I would probably get a 1DMk4 to complement the 5DII although another option is just to get another 5DII.

Thanks for the input. For some additional help, I'm really trying to keep my back up camera to 1200 or less. Trust me if I had the money to park in a seldom used camera, it would definitely be the 5DM2. I love that camera. From the first picture on it has been a love affair which is what prompted me to sell off all my Nikon gear and move 100% to Canon. So, in short, trying to stay around a grand or just a tiny bit over but not much over AND again this camera will get very little use . . 2nd camera for my photographer assistant AND as back up in case I were to arrive on location for a shoot and my 5DM2 suddenly were non functional.

I would try and stretch my money for a 7D.

It is a wonderful camera and it complements the 5DmkII really well.

The build is good. And I like 1.6 lens multiplier.

A lot of times I walk around with both cams. A wide angle on the 5 and a tele on the 7. Usually the 24-70 f2.8 L on the 5 and the 70-200 L 2.8 IS on the 7. A great combo 24mm - 320mm all f2.8.

I also like using the 100-400 L 4-5.6 IS on the 7 it becomes a 160-640.

I would try and stretch my money for a 7D. It is a wonderful camera and it complements the 5DmkII really well. The build is good. And I like 1.6 lens multiplier. . . .

Hmmmm, don't know why I dropped the 7D from consideration. This could be the "right" solution the more I look at it. It has all the bells and whistles of the 5DM2 and looks more pro in the way it functions and operates for the most part, then to top it off it's a single digit pro camera design which is a plus plus if you will in the commercial world. However, never having had my hands one one, what is the size factor relative to a T2i (which in my personal opinion is right in there with consumer and prosumer stuff) or the 50D/5DM2 sizing that is definitely pro sizing (not that the 50D is full pro cam - IMO) ??

BTW, I especially like noticing the CF cards on the 7D as opposed to the cheaper feeling and often losing SD cards that I have had fail many times in other devices. :-(

I would try and stretch my money for a 7D.


I second that, and that's what I did; if you can find decent used unit you could probably stay close to the budget and have great second/backup camera.

Sold !! :-) Done deal. Found the 7D for 1545 and will get it. It is the same size profile and weight as the 5DM2, uses the same CF card, looks exactly like my 5DM2 operationally, and is a newer technology camera along with an obvious matching (2nd camera video) specs short of the full frame technology, along with all the praise (recognition in the field) from articles, internet videos, and general "talk" in the industry.

I will order it this week or next week and will begin the learning process and training to my assistant.

Thanks to all for your help :-)

Sold !! :-) Done deal. Found the 7D for 1545 and will get it.

Yea, I would also say a less expensive 7d. It's funny though, the other day, as my 5d was tied up, I got an overlapping still shoot -- so what do I resort to? My good ol' D60 ;^)

The moral of the story -- never give up on your old EOS.

-- peer

Nice thing about having the 7D to go with your 5DMKII is that it will, in effect, double the number of lenses you have. Your 50 will look like an 80, etc. So if you need a longer lens than what you have, don't buy another lens, just switch bodies. And, the 7D gives you slomo capability if you need it.

I think the 7D feels a bit heavier than the 5D, probably because it's a little bit more compact. It just feels better. And the on/off switch is on the top. Overall, it's a little better designed for video.

Nice thing about having the 7D . . . in effect, double the number of lenses you have. Your 50 will look like an 80, etc. . . . I think the 7D feels a bit heavier than the 5D, probably because it's a little bit more compact. It just feels better. And the on/off switch is on the top. . . . .

After reading the specs on the 7D I am confident that it is "the" perfect back up cam. I really didn't want to spend much over a grand but I can see clearly that it is more pro looking like the 5D and 50D in size and various controls . . in fact, the 7D controls look identical to the 5DM2 which pleases me immensely because the T2i looks and feels VERY consumer. And as I mentioned earlier, the 7D doubles up on my video capability AND is still in the "newer" technology class.

BTW, Bill Pryor . . what do you mean slowmo ??

IMHO, the main advantage of the 7D over the T2i is if you are using an external HDMI monitor. It also offers the advantage of 1/3 stop ISO increments, so you might get slightly better exposure and less noise.

BTW, the controls on the 7D are slightly different than the 5D2 for video. There is a separate video mode switch and recording button. Aside from that, it will feel very familiar.

The thing I liked about the 7D was that it gave me a fairly easy to control depth of field. The DOF of the 5D is so shallow, due to the larger chip, that I normally shoot at f4-5.6 to be able to pul focus. That should be easier when my follow focus system arrives.

With the 7D if I had a scene where there was action in the foreground, a person moving back 8-10 feet, left and right, then coming back, etc., I could guesstimate the hyperfocal distance and generally maintain the fairly wide angle shot without having to track focus. With the 5D the only way to do that is add light or crank up the ISO so you can shoot more stopped down. The good part of the 5D is that you can crank the ISO up pretty high without any obvious quality problems. And the best part of the 5D is that a 24mm lens acts like a 24mm lens. So I guess it's sort of a tradeoff.

Basically if you're shooting by yourself the 7D might be a little easier. If you have a focus puller, the 5D is better. I'm not complaining. I like my 5D, and I liked my 7D before that. What I wish I had done is not sell the 7D so I could have both.

One interesting thing I noticed in that last round of Zacuto testing was that on the chroma key shot the 7D seemed to look just a tiny bit better than the 5D. I think I've got some more chroma key coming up in the near future, so I guess I'll find out if there really is any difference. What I saw was really negligible, but if you're looking at things back and forth very critically, there seemed to be a little difference.

On the other hand... when shooting by myself, it always seems to be in daylight. And in daylight, you can shoot with the 5D2 at 1/50, 100 ISO and f/5.6 (in the shade under cloudy skies) to f/18 (direct sun), so pulling focus is a piece of cake. In fact, I've generally got to add an ND and polarizer if I want a shallow DOF shot in mid-day conditions.

And in daylight, you can shoot with the 5D2 at 1/50, 100 ISO [...] I've generally got to add an ND and polarizer if I want a shallow DOF shot in mid-day conditions.

I'll second that -- for my last shoot I did recently, out in the scolding sun, I used two 4x4 ND filters (one 1.2 and one grad 0.9) just to get that shallow DOF for my 70-200 at f/2.8, 1/50, and 100 ISO.

-- peer

The thing I liked about the 7D was that it gave me a fairly easy to control depth of field. The DOF of the 5D is so shallow, due to the larger chip, that I normally shoot at f4-5.6 to be able to pul focus.


I would like to point out that the 5D2 and 7D have the exact same capabilities when it comes to deep DOF, so the 7D does not have an advantage in that area. As you already know, the 5D must be stopped down 1.3 stops more than the 7D in order to attain the same DOF. Therefore, to attain the same brightness level (in limited light), the 5D2 ISO must also be increased 1.3 stops. This results in the same noise level (despite the higher ISO), so it's not a problem. For example, the 7D with 85mm f/1.8 ISO 640 has the same DOF and noise as the 5D2 with 135mm f/2.8 ISO 1600. This is normal and expected, because f-number scales with sensor size as long as the technology is the same.

I'll second that -- for my last shoot I did recently, out in the scolding sun, I used two 4x4 ND filters (one 1.2 and one grad 0.9) just to get that shallow DOF for my 70-200 at f/2.8, 1/50, and 100 ISO. -- peer

wow, guess i better pick up a couple more filters over the 3 i picked up. i never needed it on the d300. ouch.

I would like to point out that the 5D2 and 7D have the exact same capabilities when it comes to deep DOF, so the 7D does not have an advantage in that area. . . .

wow, excellent illustration and great to know. lots of data to remember when doing the two cams i can see. 1.6x on focal length and 1.3x on the bokeia and image lighting. on the nikon system i had all crop so all my factors were 1.5 for lens which i have to admit is easier to deal with than the 1.6'er. however, seldom did i really need to calculate anything.

well, im off to do my first commercial shoot with the 5dm2 today. nervous but im hoping all goes well. ive practiced and practiced with both the 580 ex2 and the camera and two lenses (24-105 and 16-35) to see if i can at least act 80% as professional as i did with my zillions of shots on the d300. i get flustered easily soooooo ive tried to prepare myself for the worse case scenario (something is off or out of spec and i have to fix it in a rush) and of course my first job with the new camera would be a senator :-(

lots of data to remember when doing the two cams i can see. 1.6x on focal length and 1.3x on the bokeia and image lighting.


It may help (or not!) to know that multiplying the f-number by 1.6X gives the same result as adding 1.3 stops. For example, f/3.5 times 1.6X is f/5.6, and f/5.6 is 1.3 stops from f/3.5.

If that wasn't bad enough, there is yet another number to remember: 2.56X. That is the square of the crop factor (1.6^2), and it's used to calculate the full-frame-equivalent ISO. So ISO 640 times 2.56X is ISO 1600, and ISO 1600 is 1.3 stops from ISO 640.

well, im off to do my first commercial shoot with the 5dm2 today.

I'm sure it will go great!

It may help (or not!) to know that multiplying the f-number by 1.6X gives the same result as adding 1.3 stops. For example, f/3.5 times 1.6X is f/5.6, and f/5.6 is 1.3 stops from f/3.5.

If that wasn't bad enough, there is yet another number to remember: 2.56X. That is the square of the crop factor (1.6^2), and it's used to calculate the full-frame-equivalent ISO. So ISO 640 times 2.56X is ISO 1600, and ISO 1600 is 1.3 stops from ISO 640.

I'm sure it will go great!

all i can say is "wow" on all these numbers. but it is nice to know when setting up a two camera gig for video like i will be doing :-)

the shoot did go alright although i have to learn how to set the flash metering that's for sure. had a bright car body on the right, the subjects on the left and the flash metered to the car and thus the people are hardly seen :-( this was easy on my nikon's just gotta find where that is in the canon 5dm2 (then later on the 7d when i get it in a week or two)

so, lost a few good shots of the senator but otherwise ok for the most part.

personally i would have waited on the rumored 60d, but in any case if you get your 7d in a couple of weeks and in the meantime Canon have introduced another 'gamechanger' (that word is starting to sound quite familiar!) you can always return it for a refund

personally i would have waited on the rumored 60d, but in any case if you get your 7d in a couple of weeks and in the meantime Canon have introduced another 'gamechanger' (that word is starting to sound quite familiar!) you can always return it for a refund

do you think the 60D will be that much of a gamechanger? i mean, i don't have to buy the 7d yet. i don't need it till september and i could punt with the D90 as a second since while selling off all my nikon gear i happened to forget to put it online :-( thus, i could keep it for a few months if the 60D had "that much" to offer over the 7D ??

The really big thing I am waiting for from Canon is full 1080 HDMI output so you can record to a NanoFlash or similar device to a better codec. This would be very exciting.

A new version of the 7D was announced today. But it does not affect video as far as I know.

See below.

Canon EOS 7DSV (Studio Version) DSLR Camera Press Release (http://www.The-Digital-Picture.com/Press-Release/Canon-EOS-7DSV-Digital-SLR-Camera-Press-Release.aspx)

. . . A new version of the 7D was announced today. But it does not affect video as far as I know....

after reading the article the SV version i would have no use for that version since most of my work is mobile and i only ever have one other shooter. plus, i just hold up a small slate with any info i want preceding a run of a specific genre of photos for labeling and/or inventory control . . let alone . . i have no interest in paying a premium for such a feature. i want to stay at 1200 or below if possible for a 2nd camera but will go a couple hundred more for a much better and more professional looking camera . . like moving from the T2i to the 7D.

however, i'd be very interested in the 60D . . IF . . it has movie and/or full frame and/or both :-)

The 60D is probably just going to be an upgrade to the 50D.

The 60D is probably just going to be an upgrade to the 50D.

so, just prob a movie feature and nothing else? if it did have HD movie features, the 7D would still be better ? or ??

I generally shoot with a 5D and a 7D - it's a good combination for sure. I'll be adding a new camera soon - hopefully a 1Ds MkIV, so I guess that would make the 5D the back-up camera:)

..... I'll be adding a new camera soon - hopefully a 1Ds MkIV, so I guess that would make the 5D the back-up camera:)

when i researched the 1ds m4 vs the 5d m2 i couldn't find anything in the 1d that stood out value wise over the 5d m2. the only thing was ruggedness but for the price difference, one can go with the 5d m2 then when it gives out dump it and get another one and ur still money ahead in newer technology . . after all by then it might be a mk3 or ??

Rodger, the 1Ds MkIV hasn't been released yet - it's just a rumor. The rumor is it will be announced in September and will shoot RAW on a full frame sensor. That would be cool:)

I think you are getting confused with the 1D MkIV, no?

Rodger, the 1Ds MkIV hasn't been released yet - it's just a rumor. The rumor is it will be announced in September and will shoot RAW on a full frame sensor. That would be cool:)

I think you are getting confused with the 1D MkIV, no?

well for me its the whole 1d series series versus the 5d series, as far as i can see thus far the 1d technology is behind the 5d relative to image rez (size) and imaging quality, although maybe the "s" version will catch the 1 series up, but short of being a more heavy duty robust camera, the 5d looks to me like the caddy of the line??

ok with the 60D actually out now, might it be a better option at 500 less?

EDIT: never mind. i read the specs and checked it out on couple really nice articles an I DON'T LIKE THE 60D. for one in particular the controls. has that consumer look while the 7D has almost identical controls to the 5d2 . . and besides . . i HATE SD CARDS !!!

so in the summary of it all for those who check in on this thread some days forward . . i went with the Canon 7D. love it. the buttons are almost the same as the 5DM2 unlike the T series cams AND for video although i do use the two cams for all cinema work (the 35mbps is awesome for edits) for most straight video projects i use the Canon HF G20's (multiple)