Hi there,
I'm just wondering if this little (and I do mean little) audio recorder would work with the EX-1. It has time-code, but aside from seeing cameramen I used to work with sync things up with time-code and their betacams, I've never done this before. I wouldn't want to invest in something like this and then have problems in editing.
I'll try to add a screengrab below.
Regards, Malcolm

It says it can stripe timecode internally or jam sync from an external source including wireless and conventional.

You do realize that it records only to mp3 and it costs $900 US? I understand it is small but...

Coffey Sound, a reputable sound gear outlet sells them. Might want to give them a call.

Coffey Sound (http://www.coffeysound.com/)

Tascam makes a robust outboard two channel record unit that has phantom power, does timecode generation and sync along with a bunch of other stuff:

Tascam HD-P2 Portable CF Stereo Audio Recorder - B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=405341&is=REG)

Thanks Andrew... I'll check into the links you sent. One thing I'm wondering (about either time-code enabled recorder) is how you lock time-code between EX-1 and recorder (as I remember the cameramen I used to work with doing from one betacam to another with a blue cable).
By the way, I'll google Bowen Island too. I've travelled a fair amount on Vancouver Island, and some of the islands off Vancouver Island, but never got there. I'm sure it's gorgeous.
I appreciate the tip re Tascam - - it does look like a more "robust" unit, as you say.
Regards,
Malcolm

Andrew... just checked the Coffey web site and I see that the Zaxcom, as well as recording mp3, records "24 bit / 48 KHz timecode stamped broadcast wave files". I'm not saying it's not overpriced... but something that tiny could be kind of nice, just to slip into someone's pocket (and this way I could record a third track, without a mixer - - which I don't own). I'll read up on the Tascam too.
Regards, Malcolm

The EX1 does not generate time code.

Chad is right. I forgot that the EX1 doesn't have a timecode port. It does put SMPTE with the video it creates, so it can be lined up in your NLE or regenerate the timecode in the NLE to match your video...

On further inspection, YES, it does do WAVE files at 24bit/48kHz. That does change things for the better.

A selling point of the unit is adjustable "high pass filter" allowing you to get rid of rumble. On the negative the frequency response rolls off at 16 kHz. In theory this isn't great but practically speaking unless you are recording a lot of music with overtones in the high ranges you won't notice unless you are looking for it.

If you do end up getting the unit please report back.

Chad and Andrew — forgive me for asking such a basic question. But if the EX-1 doesn't generate time-code (I realize now that I just use the Duration setting, which I guess isn't time code at all) then would there be any way to sync up the audio that the Zaxcom records (with time-code, but so what if it doesn't help you sync) with audio/video that the EX-1 records? Aside from using a clapper or whatever, which I think would be very tricky.
Regards, Malcolm

That's how most people deal with audio. They clap, or get a clap board, then sync up by hand. There is the cool software "Plural Eyes" that does it automatically. Watch the video:

Singular Software (http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html)

It's about 150.00. It's not perfect, but if you have a lot of clips it helps.

{{{{{EDIT}}}}}
If you don't need the small size, I suggest you get a cheaper recorder, or a better one with more inputs. For 900.00 you could get the very nice Edirol R-44 4 track, or the very cool Tascam DR-680 8 track for 800.00. Google them. Most likely superior sound quality to the little one you showed us.

The thing does look cool.

YouTube - Zaxcom ZFR200 Miniature Flash Recorder At NAB 2010 w/Dale Pro Audio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiq96dG5SUc)


It's just a bit pricey. Since EX1 users don't have timecode, you may as well put a wired lav to an Edirol R1. It's more bulky but it's doable. Or just get a wireless and go straight to the camera. For 600.00 you can get an awesome Sennheiser G3 unit and save 300.00.

Thanks, Chad, for your advice (I spent all my years before having to take on these technical tasks myself just thinking about pictures, and not sound; now I'm paying the price).
I do have two nice wireless units, and since I only have two XLR inputs, that's my limit, unless I get a mixer.
That's why I was thinking that, if syncing wasn't going to be too hard (I will look at that Plural Eyes software demo) a 'free-standing' record unit might be perfect. Now I'm wondering if I should just get the smallest mixer I can get, which would allow for another audio input.
Again, I appreciate the help, and I will follow your links.
Malcolm

The thing is that a 3 (or more) channel mixer will force you to put more than one voice on one track. That may cause problems when you want to do your audio post. If you already have 2 wireless units, you could have them go to the camera, then get a small recorder (I say Edirol R9 because they aren't too bulky, but the Zoom H4N is very popular) and put a wired lav to the recorder, and the recorder in the pocket of your subject. You can get a Giant Squid lav for 25 bucks, and they sound pretty good! So now you're down to only spending 300.00 and you will have 3 separate channels of audio.

R9
Edirol / Roland R-09HR Portable High-Resolution Audio R-09HR -

Lav
Miniature Microphone Specialists Stereo - Mono - Cardioid - Omnidrectional Giant Squid Audio Lab (http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/)

The EX1 does ouput timecode, the issue is it's embedded in the HD/SD SDI signal. There may or may not be some simple way to extract that to whatever the recorder wants.

Yes Bob, there are HD-SDI timecode de-embedders available. In the 300 to 400 dollar range.

This is very interesting... so, how would that work?

A time-code de-embedder would attach between the EX-1 and the Zaxcom (let's say), via the SDI output?

Would this then synchronize the time-codes between the two units before the shoot starts, so that whatever audio I record with the Zaxcom could then be easily synced up to the EX-1 video/audio, once I get it into my NLE (in my case, Avid)?

I'm not talking about shooting long, continuous shots with my EX-1, by the way (which would make syncing easy). I stop and start, stop and start. But meanwhile, if I have that Zaxcom attached to someone, it's recording one continuous track. So in editing that would make it harder to sync things up. If time-code could make it easy, that would be great, but I'm still very unsure of the workflow.

Thanks for weighing in on this everyone.
Malcolm

Then the "de-embedder" would somehow have to be attached to the audio recorder too for the units to by actually synced. I've never heard of an EX1 being synced to any external audio recorder ever. Maybe there is a way, but all I hear is theoretical solutions, nothing that actually works.

I've emailed Zaxcom to ask if one of their techies knows how to do this. If I hear back from them, I'll re-post.
Regards,
Malcolm

If I have more than two people on-camera I'll shoot "wild sync" with an Edirol R-44. That gives me four discrete tracks of audio with four people on wireless mics.

I also record with an on-camera mic as a backup of sorts and to give me a sync reference.

The recorder runs constantly to catch candid comments (this is a reality show). Both the camera and recorder use time-of-day timecode. In post I use SequenceLiner to provide a rough sync of the clips along the entire length of the audio clip. I can fine-tune sync by matching up the camera's audio track with the recorder's audio track.

Results have been just great. I get the flexibility of discrete audio tracks without too much additional work.

The only problem is that the recorder isn't monitored by anyone since I almost always work solo. I'm about to solve that with a small 2.5 GHz transmitter/receiver system. I'm hoping it won't interfere with the wireless mic system since the transmitter is just inches away from the mic system receivers.

The only problem is that the recorder isn't monitored by anyone since I almost always work solo. I'm about to solve that with a small 2.5 GHz transmitter/receiver system. I'm hoping it won't interfere with the wireless mic system since the transmitter is just inches away from the mic system receivers.

Can you elaborate on this? What are you solving, and what is the "2.5 Ghz transmitter/receiver system"? YOu have 4 wireless units going to the R-44, but what does this other system do?

Chad...

The 2.4 GHz system sends the audio from the mics and recorder back to me so I can hear what the recorder is picking up. Otherwise it sits somewhere on the boat (or campsite) unattended.

It'll serve two purposes: Keep me informed about what's being discussed so I know when and what to shoot. It's noisy on a boat and I can't hear what's they're saying up on the fly bridge. And it'll also reassure me that everything is working properly. It's just me out in the field and I have to handle everything.

Cool Dean!

Got a link to one of these things? It would be nice to monitor from afar, as I am a one man band most of the time.

Here's the link: E-MU PIPEline Wireless Audio Transmitter/Receiver 70EM50000600 -

Keep in mind that you'll have to order two of these. There's only one in the box. I found that out after it arrived. I don't know why they call it a "system" when it's just a "unit"!

I'm still waiting for the second unit to arrive so I haven't tested it yet. I can't say if it might spew RF or otherwise interfere with a wireless mic receiver. It's in a totally different band, but radio transmitters often emit RF noise on other frequencies.

Dean that looks really hot. Please report back in this thread once you get the other unit and have tried it out.

Dean,

What kind of wireless mics are you using?

John

John...

I'm using two Audio Technica ATW-1800 dual systems. They've provided me bulletproof service at reasonable ranges (50 feet or less). I've had them go more than a hundred yards with conventional omni directional antennas. I would assume they'll go even farther with less RF interference.

Dean that looks really hot. Please report back in this thread once you get the other unit and have tried it out.

OK... so I finally got the second E-Mu Pipeline unit and can test it's ability to send and receive a signal.

I designated one of the Pipeline units as a "transmitter" and connected it to the Edirol R-44's audio monitor-out, where you'd normally connect headphones. You can also connect it to a device's RCA line output jacks.

FYI, the recorder, ATW-1800 receivers, batteries and antennas are all housed within a small Pelican case. It's designed to be used in an open boat where it gets drenched with salt spray. It's often operated sealed up. In other words, the receivers, recorder and Pipeline transmitter are in very close proximity to each other. Just a fraction of an inch. So interference is a serious concern.

Also FYI, at the end of the day, the Pelican case and antennas get washed down with something called "Salt Away". Anything made of metal is also treated with Corrosion-X.

So far my first test indicates the E-Mu Pipeline doesn't interfere with the wireless mic system or recorder. For this test, the body packs are about 30 feet away, transmitting through several sheet rock walls. Audio is clean with no detectable interference. Not too surprising as the Pipeline operates at 2.4 gigahertz in a totally different band.

As far as I'm concerned, the range of the Pipeline is more than enough for almost all boats I'd be aboard.

I connected the Pipeline to my iPod to check basic fidelity and the signal is clean enough. Doesn't seem to be much of a difference between listening to the iPod directly with earphones or via the Pipeline. If there were a quick way to do an A/B test, one might detect a difference. But for all practical intent it works very nicely.

So if there's a problem with the audio quality of a wireless system (hits, dropouts, loss of signal) it will become very evident, although you need to be aware that because the Pipeline is part of the chain it could also be the Pipeline and not the wireless mic.

Again, this is only an initial impression.

The next question is how long can it run?

Sounds promising Dean. I saw the photo of your Pelican jammed with the Edirol recorder and the A-T wireless receivers. very impressed with the handy work. The cable hardware from the A-T units to the exterior of the Peli is really well executed. Anybody with a good sense of gear lust would applaud your efforts.

With all the material you use in your show, do you find the lack of genlocked SMPTE timecode a workflow hindrance? I have been looking at getting a muti-track recorder but am hesitant to get a unit that doesn't offer timecode and the ability to lock to timecode. As you know, the Edirol 2 track unit does timecode but I don't think your does.

Andrew... Thanks for the kind comments.

I have the Edirol and the EX1 recording with Time-of-Day timecode, so that allows me to get a rough sync with SequenceLiner. I then fine-tune sync by looking at the audio waveforms in FCP and listening. Doesn't take long at all.

There is some drift. But it's still not a problem to make minor shifts further down the line, and that's a frame or two every half hour of material. Once it's all sync'd I can begin editing.

Would be nice to get it genlocked but the requirement for discrete tracks has more priority in my case.