Hi everyone!!

Yes, I know this questions has been asked a few times. And I did my search and found these posts:


Best Lavalier Wireless set/system?
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/468482-best-lavalier-wireless-set-system.html


Sennheiser G2/G3 or Audio-Technica ATW-182X
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/465169-sennheiser-g2-g3-audio-technica-atw-182x.html


Looking for wireless lav solution for under $1500
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/447044-looking-wireless-lav-solution-under-1500-a.html


I read them all and found them very informative, but it is time for me to make a decision and before I buy a wireless system, I would like to get your recommendation on which of this two kits is better in your opinion.

Let me explain you the situation first:
I have a Panasonic HMC-150, I am planning o making a short movie for next year's 'The Door Post' contest, which I need to start shooting in the next months. I have no experience whatsoever with sound. I know I can get a boom mic, but the intent of this post is only to find out which wireless system I should buy. There are only two actors on the entire short.

Because of my limited budget, I came to the conclusion that even though I would love a Lectrosonics 400 series, it is way out of my budget. Due of my some how extensive internet research, I came up with these two systems as the 'finalist' for the purchase.

Our friends of B&H have the following options:

Audio-Technica ATW-1821D Deluxe Kit - Includes: ATW-1821 Dual Bodypack Wireless Microphone System, ATW-1802 Plug-In Transmitter, Two AT-899CW Lavalier Microphones, ENG Microphone, Case and Accessories
Audio-Technica ATW-1821D Deluxe Kit - B&H Photo Video

Sennheiser EW 100 G3 Series Dual Deluxe Kit (B / 626 - 668 MHz )
Sennheiser EW 100 G3 Series Dual Deluxe Kit (B / 626 - 668 MHz )

I am just NOT sure which one to get?

They also have another G3 kit, with a different set of mics:
Sennheiser EW 100 G3 Series Dual Basic Kit (B / 626 - 668 MHz) - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/643147-REG/Sennheiser_EW_100_G3_Series.html#features)

Something else I am not sure if I understand is about the frequencies. The G3 kit, comes as A and B flavors. The link I sent is kit B (626 - 668 MHz), but they also have a kit A (A / 516 - 558 MHz ). I live in Hartford, VT and the closes largest city is Burlington, VT. Does it make any difference which one I get?

I would really appreciate your input and opinions on which one to get and why.

Thanks very much to you all!!

Ben

I've had experience with only the Senn G3 system. For my purposes, it has been reliable, and has worked flawlessly.

The frequency range that you should obtain can be found by going to this site:

Find Available Frequencies (http://www.sennheiserusa.com/FindFrequency/)

I've had experience with only the Senn G3 system. For my purposes, it has been reliable, and has worked flawlessly.

The frequency range that you should obtain can be found by going to this site:

Find Available Frequencies (http://www.sennheiserusa.com/FindFrequency/)

Hi Vic,

Hey, thanks very much for sharing your experience. I had no idea about that website. That was very helpful thank you again!

Best Regards!

I've been using the AT almost since the day it came out and it has performed flawlessly. Regardless of whether I'm using 2 bodypaks or 2 plugins it works great. I like the fact that it is only the one receiver where as the Senny is 2 receivers, but they are a bit smaller than the AT unit so I guess it balances out. My vote is for the AT unit but then I'm a bit prejudiced.
Either way I'm sure you'll be happy but do look at how you would mount 2 receivers before you take the plunge.

I've been using the AT almost since the day it came out and it has performed flawlessly. Regardless of whether I'm using 2 bodypaks or 2 plugins it works great. I like the fact that it is only the one receiver where as the Senny is 2 receivers, but they are a bit smaller than the AT unit so I guess it balances out. My vote is for the AT unit but then I'm a bit prejudiced.
Either way I'm sure you'll be happy but do look at how you would mount 2 receivers before you take the plunge.

Hey, Thank you for you input, I really appreciate it.
This is what I got so far about each kit:
1821 deluxe kit:
Dual receiver is a plus. It is, since you can also mix both channels if you want to. That is a plus, but the down side is that if it breaks, you are our of both receivers.
I read over here and at BH that the built is a bit 'plasticky'.

G3 deluxe kit:
It seems to come with a bit better mics. Two TR50s. I am not sure how 'better' they are in comparison with the AT-899 that comes with the 1821 kit, but people using the TR50s seems to be quite happy.
The G3, I believe it was released on a later date. Therefor 'newer' technology.
It is hard to tell by the pictures, but it 'looks' like the G3 has a bit better quality built.

So, If it wasn't for the dual receiver that comes with the 1821, I was going to probably go with the G3 kit.

But to this date, I am still not sure which kit to purchase. I am going to read a bit more here in DVinfo and try to make a decision soon.

Again Don, thanks very much for you time!!


Ben Tolosa

Ben... I wouldn't worry about the use of plastics in the ATW-1800 system. For one thing, plastic doesn't corrode. And it doesn't dent.

My bodypacks have fared very well in the few years that I've used them. No problems at all.

FYI, plastics are used in bulletproof glass, and a wide variety of safety gear. In fact, Pelican cases are made of the stuff.

Here is a thread with helpful info on the 1821, including a review by noted Audio Guy - Ty Ford.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/128662-reports-noticeable-noise-floor-atw-1800-wireless-system.html


I have heard that there is some noise with the 1800 series. I wanted it to be the unit for me, but I went with Sennheiser G3, since it's rare that I need dual wireless. I have a G2 unit that I employ when I need 2 wireless units, and I have no complaints. Especially when paired with the Sanken COS11d lav mic. A wonderful wonderful mic.

I also shoot with a HMC-150 camera, and use Sennheiser G2 packs for my lav mics. The standard Sennheiser lav that comes with the G3 kit is an ok mic, but not great. The TRAM TR50 lav is a very good general purpose mic, that is quite effective in picking up the speaker with little room noise if you mount the mic inwards toward the vampire-clip.

I also own a Sanken COS-11x lav mic, which has fantastic sound ( very much like a good quality condenser pencil mic ) but picks up everything in the room, so I don't use it very often.

The Sennheiser MKE-2 Gold is another great sounding lav mic, that is quite directional, so positioned properly you won't record much room noise.

Also, you may want to consider buying a small digital recorder like the Olympus LS-10 / LS-11 which runs for days on 2 AA batteries, it can use your Sennheiser G3 wired lav mics, and has a much higher dynamic range than the HMC-150 does. ( HMC-150 dynamic range is about 60 dB, while the Olympus is about 75 dB, so you can get much quieter sounding recordings if the room is very good ) You can clip the Olympus recorder on to the belt of your actor, or hide it in a pocket of their jacket.

Also, consider buying a good field mixer with good limiters to feed the sound to your HMC-150. I use the Sound Devices MixPre mixer, which has amazing sound, very good pre-amps, a very loud headphone amp, and will run all day on 2 AA batteries. A mixer is extremely useful for your boom op, so they can properly judge the sound they are recording via a good pair of headphones like the industry standard Sony 7506 model.

Lastly, consider buying a good quality hypercardioid pencil condenser mic for your boom op to use when recording indoors. ( most shotgun mics under $1,000 are not good indoors, as they will pick up as much sound from behind the mic as they do in front of the mic ) My favorite indoor condenser mic is the Audio Technica 4053B mic, which has a very full rich sound, and will not pick up much room noise when used indoors.

I have a G2 system in the 600mhz range and a PR81/PT81 in the 700mhz range.
Sadly I have to stop using the AKG and even worse AKG has not replaced a set similar in the approved Bands.
The G2 is just an OK mic system. Is the G3 an improvement?

The G2 & G3 both have the same mic (ME2), but they are great little wireless systems. The G3 is an improvement as it upgrades to using passive diversity. I purchased a Sanken COS11d lav to go with it, and it sounds very nice.

I said this before in other threads, but the G2/3's GUI displays more info, specifically gain meters and easier freg. scans then the AT. Both systems have they're pros and cons.
I wonder if Sennheiser considering making an 'affordable' dual channel receiver.

Ben... I wouldn't worry about the use of plastics in the ATW-1800 system. For one thing, plastic doesn't corrode. And it doesn't dent.

My bodypacks have fared very well in the few years that I've used them. No problems at all.

FYI, plastics are used in bulletproof glass, and a wide variety of safety gear. In fact, Pelican cases are made of the stuff.

Hey, well thank you for the info!
I am going to take a pick of those Sanken COS-11x to see how much they cost.
You know, I am still undecided... !@#!#%$

But this information is definitely helping me :)

I'll take your word on the AT plastic.

Thanks very much!

Here is a thread with helpful info on the 1821, including a review by noted Audio Guy - Ty Ford.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/128662-reports-noticeable-noise-floor-atw-1800-wireless-system.html


I have heard that there is some noise with the 1800 series. I wanted it to be the unit for me, but I went with Sennheiser G3, since it's rare that I need dual wireless. I have a G2 unit that I employ when I need 2 wireless units, and I have no complaints. Especially when paired with the Sanken COS11d lav mic. A wonderful wonderful mic.

Chad,

Well, thanks very much for the info. I read Ty's review on the 1800's and it was great to know.

I'll check the cost of those Sanken COS11s

Thanks again!!

Love my g2 and g3 wireless lavs. Solid, reliable and sound great.

I also shoot with a HMC-150 camera, and use Sennheiser G2 packs for my lav mics. The standard Sennheiser lav that comes with the G3 kit is an ok mic, but not great. The TRAM TR50 lav is a very good general purpose mic, that is quite effective in picking up the speaker with little room noise if you mount the mic inwards toward the vampire-clip.

I also own a Sanken COS-11x lav mic, which has fantastic sound ( very much like a good quality condenser pencil mic ) but picks up everything in the room, so I don't use it very often.

The Sennheiser MKE-2 Gold is another great sounding lav mic, that is quite directional, so positioned properly you won't record much room noise.

Also, you may want to consider buying a small digital recorder like the Olympus LS-10 / LS-11 which runs for days on 2 AA batteries, it can use your Sennheiser G3 wired lav mics, and has a much higher dynamic range than the HMC-150 does. ( HMC-150 dynamic range is about 60 dB, while the Olympus is about 75 dB, so you can get much quieter sounding recordings if the room is very good ) You can clip the Olympus recorder on to the belt of your actor, or hide it in a pocket of their jacket.

Also, consider buying a good field mixer with good limiters to feed the sound to your HMC-150. I use the Sound Devices MixPre mixer, which has amazing sound, very good pre-amps, a very loud headphone amp, and will run all day on 2 AA batteries. A mixer is extremely useful for your boom op, so they can properly judge the sound they are recording via a good pair of headphones like the industry standard Sony 7506 model.

Lastly, consider buying a good quality hypercardioid pencil condenser mic for your boom op to use when recording indoors. ( most shotgun mics under $1,000 are not good indoors, as they will pick up as much sound from behind the mic as they do in front of the mic ) My favorite indoor condenser mic is the Audio Technica 4053B mic, which has a very full rich sound, and will not pick up much room noise when used indoors.

Guy,

Hey thank you very much for all this info. I am also considering getting a Canon 7D, so that LS-10 might be good as well. I will check that Sound Devices MixPre mixer as well.

I really appreciate you took the time to answer with all of this input.

The very best to you!!

The G2 & G3 both have the same mic (ME2), but they are great little wireless systems. The G3 is an improvement as it upgrades to using passive diversity. I purchased a Sanken COS11d lav to go with it, and it sounds very nice.

I said this before in other threads, but the G2/3's GUI displays more info, specifically gain meters and easier freg. scans then the AT. Both systems have they're pros and cons.
I wonder if Sennheiser considering making an 'affordable' dual channel receiver.

Love my g2 and g3 wireless lavs. Solid, reliable and sound great.

Hey Chad, Rick and Robert:

Thanks very much for your answers and input. I am still undecided, but I think I am 51% with the G3 that come with the TRAM TR50+ lav mics.

But still going back and forth with the 1821 as well.

But all of these feedback has been very helpful, so thanks to you all!!!!

Kind Regards,

Ben Tolosa

Ben I guess you need to think about how often you'll be running 2 wireless mics at once. The AT 1821 Dual system has a large receiver. Do you want to deal with that every time you go wireless? It does have diversity reception that will give you less drop outs, but for me at least the jury is still out on whether the sound quality is better - regarding the reports of there being more of a noise floor. I have not heard any A/B comparisons between the G3 and the AT1821. Can anybody speak to that? Anyway, I can say that I don't get too many drop outs with the G3, but more importantly for me, the audio quality is pretty good. If I had to deal with a constant hiss from noise that would outweigh having less dropouts. So I can't tell if the reports of the 1821 noisefloor have been greatly exaggerated. Maybe the G3 has more noise?

All I can say is that when I use my G3 with a Sanken COS11D I am happy with the results. Same when using a hand held mic with the G3 plug on transmitter. Side Story: Last night I was doing a wedding and I needed to record the toasts. I couldn't hand them my mic to pass around because they were using a wired mic the DJ gave them, going through the PA. Well I took my plug-on transmitter and attached it to the output of one of the powered monitors from the PA. I slapped a -20db in-line attenuator between the PA and the Plug-on, and I captured all the toasts flawlessly. That thing is really helpful when you can't run a cable.

Can anyone who's used both say if the 1821 has more noise than the G3?

check out my video review of the G3. you can hear it in action with the supplied ME2 mic ( yuck ) and a COS-11.. nice !

Sennheiser G3 Wireless Mic Review on Vimeo

for your purposes, it will be ok, the real issue is the mic you are using. the audio and RF performance are good for the price.

Just to add to Steve's Demo I'm throwing up my ME-2 vs COS11D video - both going through Sennheiser wireless units. My demo is more casual, but I cut back & forth between the mics multiple times to give you a lot of A-B to really hear the difference. After I put the mics under my shirt I wasn't digging the sound quality, I think because they were behind not only the shirt, but the decal stitched onto the shirt which I think muffled the sound. But for just a cotton T-Shirt I think you'd have a better sound. I also played dome guitar just as an experiment because I believe I heard that they used the COS11d for vocals on that show "Music in High Places" that featured bands playing acoustically (mostly) out in nature. I'm not sure where they placed these mics, and I'm sure they didn't use Sennheiser wireless units. Most likely hard wired down the pant leg or a nice Lectro system. Anyway here's my little comparison...

Recorded straight into a Sony EX1.

Lavaliere Shootout: Sanken COS-11D Vs. Sennheiser ME-2 on Vimeo

Ben I guess you need to think about how often you'll be running 2 wireless mics at once. The AT 1821 Dual system has a large receiver. Do you want to deal with that every time you go wireless? It does have diversity reception that will give you less drop outs, but for me at least the jury is still out on whether the sound quality is better - regarding the reports of there being more of a noise floor. I have not heard any A/B comparisons between the G3 and the AT1821. Can anybody speak to that? Anyway, I can say that I don't get too many drop outs with the G3, but more importantly for me, the audio quality is pretty good. If I had to deal with a constant hiss from noise that would outweigh having less dropouts. So I can't tell if the reports of the 1821 noisefloor have been greatly exaggerated. Maybe the G3 has more noise?

All I can say is that when I use my G3 with a Sanken COS11D I am happy with the results. Same when using a hand held mic with the G3 plug on transmitter. Side Story: Last night I was doing a wedding and I needed to record the toasts. I couldn't hand them my mic to pass around because they were using a wired mic the DJ gave them, going through the PA. Well I took my plug-on transmitter and attached it to the output of one of the powered monitors from the PA. I slapped a -20db in-line attenuator between the PA and the Plug-on, and I captured all the toasts flawlessly. That thing is really helpful when you can't run a cable.

Can anyone who's used both say if the 1821 has more noise than the G3?

Hey Chad, I just wanted to thank you for all of this very valuable information. I have a good point, how many times do I need to wireless mics. Probably very few. As of today, I believe I am going to end up going with a G3.

And also with the Sanken COS11D, which I've heard the best everywhere.

Again, thanks so much for taking the time to answer!!

check out my video review of the G3. you can hear it in action with the supplied ME2 mic ( yuck ) and a COS-11.. nice !

Sennheiser G3 Wireless Mic Review on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/14045905)

for your purposes, it will be ok, the real issue is the mic you are using. the audio and RF performance are good for the price.


Hey Steve, that was awesome. And yes, you can clearly notice the difference with the COS11D. Really well done video, I was blown away.

Thanks very much for sharing it!

I am going to go with that set up, G3 + COS11D ^_^

Just to add to Steve's Demo I'm throwing up my ME-2 vs COS11D video - both going through Sennheiser wireless units. My demo is more casual, but I cut back & forth between the mics multiple times to give you a lot of A-B to really hear the difference. After I put the mics under my shirt I wasn't digging the sound quality, I think because they were behind not only the shirt, but the decal stitched onto the shirt which I think muffled the sound. But for just a cotton T-Shirt I think you'd have a better sound. I also played dome guitar just as an experiment because I believe I heard that they used the COS11d for vocals on that show "Music in High Places" that featured bands playing acoustically (mostly) out in nature. I'm not sure where they placed these mics, and I'm sure they didn't use Sennheiser wireless units. Most likely hard wired down the pant leg or a nice Lectro system. Anyway here's my little comparison...

Recorded straight into a Sony EX1.

Lavaliere Shootout: Sanken COS-11D Vs. Sennheiser ME-2 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/9776528)


Chad,

Yes, more casual but fantastic as well. I loved the guitar improv song ;)

Really appreciate your input and I have decided to go with a G3 + COS11D as a set up.

Thanks very much again for ALL of your input!

Ben I'm glad you found something to suit your needs.

Now start saving up for a Lectrosonics wireless system!

Hey Steve, that was awesome. And yes, you can clearly notice the difference with the COS11D. Really well done video, I was blown away.

Thanks very much for sharing it!

I am going to go with that set up, G3 + COS11D ^_^

You're welcome !

Ben I'm glad you found something to suit your needs.

Now start saving up for a Lectrosonics wireless system!

^_^

Hahah, yes I will start saving and hopefully by 2015 I will get one for sure ;)

Have a wonderful week!!