Personally, I prefer 24p (even with 3:2 pulldown) - if it's shot well. If you pan quickly or slowly, it works fine. If you pan at a medium speed, the strobing can be obnoxious.

Why do I like it? The judder makes things look more dreamlike. Smooth out the motion, and it can look more real. Personally, I prefer the dream feel to the reality feel for films. So, for me, 24p is preferred.

Regarding the "fan boy" talk, I don't think it's helpful. The 24p crowd could turn it around and call 24p doubters "haters" or "60/30p fanboys." That just divides us. We should leave cheap polarization for cable news.

The reality is that any camera that doesn't offer 24p, 25p and 30p (if not 60i and 60p) will lose some market share. Even if one delivers finished media at 30p, they might want to undercrank to 24p to speed up a fight scene. The feature doesn't harm anyone, nor does it add hard costs (as we saw with the Canon 5D2 firmware that added 24, 25, and 29.97 fps.)

All shooters should be requesting all the standard framerates - if not additional framerates for over and under cranking too.

All shooters should be requesting all the standard framerates - if not additional framerates for over and under cranking too.

I think that's a terrific idea- but I'm afraid Sony is not going to give it to us for $2,000 :(

Well, hopefully this camera will have a frame rate upgrade. If it's just a software change, it should be possible - right?
But let's remember, it is marketed as a consumer camera. I don't expect much from a $2,000 camera. If it shoots good video, I'd say it's an incredible bargain.

I was just on a music video shoot yesterday using a 7D. Since I am new to DSLRs, it was quite the learning experience. And yes, the director wanted it shot in 24P. But the shoot only reinforced my desire for a large sensor, interchangeable lens VIDEO CAMERA. Given the choice, I'd much rather use a dedicated video camera platform than a DSLR. Will the VG10 fulfill that role? We'll find out in September.

By the way, the director is a friend of mine, and he's aware of the VG10. If we shot with the VG10, he would have been satisfied with 60i. Or 30P, or whatever it really is.

Jon I accept that it depends on the subject matter. A story/film can include all the artistic input desired by the director. The audience will be the judge. All of my projects are theatre with my aim to produce a finished product as if the viewer was sat in the audience. Not a film of the story unfolding on stage but a record of the stage production. Maximum depth of field and smoothest motion, as alive as possible. Same is true for my family video. I want to be there in the memory.

I support people who want 24p because they want it. For all the reasons stated before, 24p on a TV is not acceptable to me. The problem for me is that even the slightest movement has the cadence applied to it and destroys the dream like effect that the projected image would have. I just don't watch because more and more productions are poorly shot. Beautifully clean images with bad camera work and editing. They look worse than my projected 18fps Super8 film of almost 50years ago.

One needs to use a compatible chain of technologies. For video in NTSC that needs to be a multiple of 30 for PAL 25 and then none of these cadence issue will arise.(There will still be the scaling issues !!!) IF one then needs an oddball cadence for artistic effect then let the NLE do that. That is the nature of video.

Ron Evans

The concern raised by some that this camera should have 24p, is a valid concern, given an emphasis on that frame rate by many if power in segments of the industry. What if you show up at a job and the client says, "Of course, you will be shooting in 24p, right ?" So having it available is a valid concern. I have it available on my Canon 5d, and my Canon T2i, and I am happy it is there. On the T2i I also have 60p, and I am happy it is there too !

Point is with this camera, Sony continues to leave it off of its low end cameras, while Canon has included it. So I will opt for a camera that does have it available.

I do agree that it SHOULD have 24p. We know it can be done -- look at Pana and Canon. And, Pana makes "pro" cameras and so has a valid marketing reason to NOT include it. Yet they do.

As a reviewer I've had many many meetings with Sony execs. Some people remember I made a way too big a stink at a Sony press conference about the lack of 24p and the horrible CineFrame "feature." It was this that I think led Sony to loan me a V1 prototype.

I also don't know why Pana consumer camcorders shoot 24p but not 30p -- yet shoot 25p.

Or, why cameras don't shoot 25p AND 30p. Or, why 25p/30p are not recorded natively.

After years of fighting -- I'm convince that every company finds a way to cripple everything -- just a bit.

So not only do I think Sony should have included 24p -- I think they REALLY REALLY should have included Cine gamma and Black Stretch/Compress.

I see no valid reason why someone who wants 24p should not get it. It is 2010! Offering 1080p24 costs nothing. I can even give a really valid reason for shooting 24p -- you can convert to 60i and to 25p(50i) and go to film. And, 24p goes to BD.

My pushing against the 24p fans is only to get them to really think about the ABSOLUTE NEED to shoot 24p verses 30p for a "near" film look -- especially when the film look involves so much more than frame-rate.

I don't really care about 24P, but I'll join in the chorus that says it makes sense to include the feature... it's firmware most likely, not hardware, so why not, if only for the marketing advantage?

Trying to find an apt car analogy... it'd be like saying not everybody wants or uses the passenger side mirror... so lets just leave it off entirely...

I just realized something. I have become a Canon fanboy..... .something I had not expected, when I started with Sony consumer cams, then my VX2000 and then went to the FX1. FIrst Canon was the HV20 with 24fps capability, and now the 5 D and T2i.

Back to this camera, the other necessity in my mind is that the interchangeable lens capability easily extend to the good glass all of us have floating around in our bags-- again something that is easily doable with the Canon DSLRs, but that appears won't be so easy or clean with this camera. I can slap on my old Nikon and Pentax lenses with great easy on my Canon DSLRs, and hope Sony's cameras will have that potential as they gear up in the interchangeable lens arena.

Let's all keep in mind that the VG10 is a consumer camcorder with MSRP of $2,000. I've come to notice that whenever Sony offers 24P on a camcorder, it's usually on a Pro or Prosumer camcorder with a price of $3,000 or above. It might be that a possible future Pro version of the VG10 might have 24P. The $2,000 priced FX7 doesn't offer 24P while it's pro version, the V1, priced over $3,000 does offer 24P.

Let's all keep in mind that the VG10 is a consumer camcorder with MSRP of $2,000. I've come to notice that whenever Sony offers 24P on a camcorder, it's usually on a Pro or Prosumer camcorder with a price of $3,000 or above. It might be that a possible future Pro version of the VG10 might have 24P. The $2,000 priced FX7 doesn't offer 24P while it's pro version, the V1, priced over $3,000 does offer 24P.

Precisely the game!!
I'm certain that Sony segments the camera features across a spectrum of prices strictly as marketing strategy rather than technology limits.
Consider their vast video camera offerings- from $200- $200,000. That's a lot of balls to keep in the air.

Let's all keep in mind that the VG10 is a consumer camcorder with MSRP of $2,000.

For some perspective, the Canon T2i/550D is a consumer still camera with an MSRP of $799 and it shoots 24, 25, and 29.97p.

Similarly, the Pana HMC40 is sub-$2000 and shoots 24P, 29.97P and 60P (plus interlaced, of course, but let's not go there).

For some perspective, the Canon T2i/550D is a consumer still camera with an MSRP of $799 and it shoots 24, 25, and 29.97p.

Well, to be fair, the VG10 comes with an $800 lens, about the same price of the T2i body. I'm assuming the Sony lens is a very good one.
I've looked at T2i sample clips on Vimeo and YouTube and, when done properly, the videos are very impressive. So, regarding the VG10s or the Canon DSLRs, which has a more NLE- friendly codec? If I shot video with either and brought it to a post production house, which would be easier for the editor to work with?

Similarly, the Pana HMC40 is sub-$2000 and shoots 24P, 29.97P and 60P (plus interlaced, of course, but let's not go there).

The HMC40 has 1/4" CMOS chips? No thanks, no matter what the frame rate. Isn't that the whole idea behind the VG10 - to have a camcorder with a very large imager?

There are already lots of E-Mount lens adapters on ebay. The back focus distance on the E Mount is so short you can use Leica M-mount lenses - something you can't do with a Canon dlsr.

That makes this camera interesting. As long as a lens has a manual aperture ring, you should be able to use it.



I just realized something. I have become a Canon fanboy..... .something I had not expected, when I started with Sony consumer cams, then my VX2000 and then went to the FX1. FIrst Canon was the HV20 with 24fps capability, and now the 5 D and T2i.

Back to this camera, the other necessity in my mind is that the interchangeable lens capability easily extend to the good glass all of us have floating around in our bags-- again something that is easily doable with the Canon DSLRs, but that appears won't be so easy or clean with this camera. I can slap on my old Nikon and Pentax lenses with great easy on my Canon DSLRs, and hope Sony's cameras will have that potential as they gear up in the interchangeable lens arena.

Well, to be fair, the VG10 comes with an $800 lens, about the same price of the T2i body. I'm assuming the Sony lens is a very good one.
True, but irrelevant. The question wasn't about lenses lenses but about whether it's reasonable to expect 24p even at the low-end. Besides, the VG10 without the lens is still about 50% more expensive than the T2i, and still no 24p.

The HMC40 has 1/4" CMOS chips? No thanks, no matter what the frame rate. Isn't that the whole idea behind the VG10 - to have a camcorder with a very large imager?
Again, chip size is irrelevant to the discussion. (If you don't like quarter-inch sensors, then you won't like Panasonic's $21K AG-3DA1 3-D camera -- "1/4.1-inch" sensors.) What's being discussed is whether 24p should be expected in a low-end camera.

True, but irrelevant. The question wasn't about lenses lenses but about whether it's reasonable to expect 24p even at the low-end. Besides, the VG10 without the lens is still about 50% more expensive than the T2i, and still no 24p.


Again, chip size is irrelevant to the discussion. (If you don't like quarter-inch sensors, then you won't like Panasonic's $21K AG-3DA1 3-D camera -- "1/4.1-inch" sensors.) What's being discussed is whether 24p should be expected in a low-end camera.

No, I understood the relevance. I may have worded my response poorly. Just trying to keep the costs in perspective. The VG10 doesn't have 24P, we got that. Who knows why it doesn't? I'm sure there are other Sony cams near the 2 grand price range that do shoot in various progressive rates, which makes it all the more perplexing.

The VG10 does have a flip-out monitor, a tiltable viewfinder, something I like in video cameras. It has a good audio system built it. I believe the AVCHD format is a robust one. It doesn't have 24P, but it does have some other nice video camera features the DSLRs lack.

I believe chip size is relevant to the discussion. I didn't bring a 1/4" chip camera in for comparison, someone else did. I know they were referring to 24P, but how many other large sensor, interchangeable lens, dedicated VIDEO CAMERAS are out there for this price? That was the point - there are none. 24P or not, right now it has no equal.
I've shot with 1/4" CMOS cams. I prefer not to. I know the Panny 3D model has them, I saw it at NAB. Interesting, that at their display, they didn't emphasize the sensor package. I had to ask several demo people before I got an answer.
I'll admit, I'm far more interested in a camera's sensor size than I am in its frame rates. If 24P is a game-changer, then this is not the camera for you. But hey, maybe there will be a software fix to that.

Edit - Sensor size takes on a whole new meaning with 3D cameras. Shallow depth of field doesn't seem to be as relevant when you can make objects appear closer or further away with 3D cameras. And you can adjust the distance perspective, it's really weird. I tried it at the Panny display, it's not easy to do at all. The low light performance will still suffer with smaller chips, though.

I believe chip size is relevant to the discussion. I didn't bring a 1/4" chip camera in for comparison, someone else did. I know they were referring to 24P, but how many other large sensor, interchangeable lens, dedicated VIDEO CAMERAS are out there for this price? That was the point - there are none. 24P or not, right now it has no equal.
Including the VG10, right now there are none. Sure, the VG10 will be the first large-sensor, interchangeable-lens, prosumer video camera released, but it certainly won't be the last. And if Canon -- who's gotten a lot of press with films and TV shows being shot with its HD-vDSLRs -- releases an otherwise comparable (and comparably priced) APS-C video camera with 24p, which will be a better deal?

Including the VG10, right now there are none. Sure, the VG10 will be the first large-sensor, interchangeable-lens, prosumer video camera released, but it certainly won't be the last. And if Canon -- who's gotten a lot of press with films and TV shows being shot with its HD-vDSLRs -- releases an otherwise comparable (and comparably priced) APS-C video camera with 24p, which will be a better deal?

Well, since the Canon you described is vaporware, there's no telling which would be better. The Canon could have a worse codec, or bad moire', who knows? Actually, we don't even know if the VG10 will live up to its own billing. Time will tell. But it would be nice to have more camera choices.

I think the closest we can come right now to the VG10 is the Panny AF-100, and we know even less about that camera. It should have 24P and XLR inputs, which is great. It will probably cost about 3 times as much, too. And will it come with a lens? Will it be worth 3, maybe 4 times the cost of the Sony? I guess it depends on the user's preferences and needs.

Well, since the Canon you described is vaporware, there's no telling which would be better. The Canon could have a worse codec, or bad moire', who knows? Actually, we don't even know if the VG10 will live up to its own billing. Time will tell. But it would be nice to have more camera choices.
Actually, the Canon I described is not even vaporware. Canon has made no announcements at all regarding an APS-C video camera.

I think the closest we can come right now to the VG10 is the Panny AF-100, and we know even less about that camera. It should have 24P and XLR inputs, which is great. It will probably cost about 3 times as much, too. And will it come with a lens? Will it be worth 3, maybe 4 times the cost of the Sony? I guess it depends on the user's preferences and needs.
Although I have been flamed for my opinion on this matter, I personally don't think it is, given that it's a larger-sensor version of the HMC150 with a $2,800 premium. Although the the HMC150 doesn't have HD-SDI, it has a more complex (and probably more expensive) image block and comes with a lens. And while the AF100 was previously tentatively priced at "around $6,000," according to this informal report from the Panasonic When It Counts Road Show (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2067873&postcount=6), the price of the AF100 was given as "under 10K" (it's unclear whether this price includes a lens, although none of Panasonic's current 4/3 options is worth the $4K difference).

Thanks for the info, Lawrence.

The AF-100 - "under $10,000??" Ugh. Just ugh. The VG10 and DSLRs are looking a lot better.

I think that the VG10 is a probe by Sony: they've tossed it out into the pond to see who will bite and what they'll say. It is modestly featured but priced to be tempting to anyone who is interested in getting their feet wet with APS chip video.
If it goes well, I can imagine down the road a 4 lb. cam with a single APS chip, an expanded selection of E lenses, and the feature set of the EX1 in the $4-$6K price range.

I don't mean to plegarize but I copied and pasted this from here: XDCAM-USER.com Sony NEX-VG10 APS-C Camcorder Launched, available September. (http://www.xdcam-user.com/?p=977)
and a couple really short clips from the nex-vg10 here: http://www.xdcam-user.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nex-clips.zip

"HANDS ON: I managed to get a brief play with one today. First off it’s very small and light, but with the supplied lens makes it quite front heavy. The LCD is clear and easy to see, however I did find focusing tricky with the LCD but I did not have time to see if there was any kind of focus assist system or peaking control. With the supplied lens you turn the forward ring to zoom and rear ring to focus. It was quite stiff turning the zoom ring and very difficult to do in shot zooms as you tend to twist the whole camera as you rotate the zoom ring. As well as the focus ring on the lens there is a dial behind the LCD screen that controls many functions including menu navigation, but this is also marked as a focus control. It was very strange holding a camcorder but not having any kind of zoom control. The menu system is quite logically laid out and easy to find your way around. I did shoot some clips with it and could see no signs of any aliasing which is very promising indeed. As expected it had pleasing shallow DoF but the low light performance was disappointing as it didn’t seem to perform as well as I had hoped. In some respects this may be an advantage as it helps get a shallow DoF. It also has to be remembered that the stock lens is only f3.5 compared to the f1.9 of a EX camcorder, so overall low light performance may not be as bad as it appeared. The pictures look very promising, it’s not a particularly expensive camcorder and for video, ergonomically it’s much better than a DSLR. I’m sure this will be popular with those that are seeking the filmic look.

Nice review. I like the lack of aliasing - very positive. i guess if my video camera lens could only open to 3.5f, the image would appear dark. But I don't know how DSLR lenses translate to video lenses.

The DOF tricks look great, but hard to tell re the overall image quality- I'm not sure if it's any better than we are used to from the little CX550.
Low light shots look O.K., but not great- blacks look pretty clean even with high gain, but I'm thinking that to get really best quality low light shots will require a much faster lens than the f 3.5.
Hopefully we will soon see more footage and some detailed hands on reviews.

Here's another footage link:
YouTube - ‪Sony NEX-VG10‬‎ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjuL0kIqre0)
This is interesting to me as it is an example of how the cam renders fast motion (big birds flying around).
I had some concern re the 30p in 60i format, but the shots look quite smooth.

NEX-VG10 TEST - Sony NEX-VG10 User Group on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/groups/nexvg10/videos/13933025)

I was kind of hoping that Sony would beat the moire and aliasing issues that the big sensor cameras seem to have, but at :35 in this film (city roof tops) it look like it is there.

I was kind of hoping that Sony would beat the moire and aliasing issues that the big sensor cameras seem to have, but at :35 in this film (city roof tops) it look like it is there.

Good eye, Chris! I can really see it on the 2nd, tighter rooftop shot.
Do you think it could be a web encoding issue rather than the camera?
I always feel a little uncertain when I spot something on web footage.
However, my CX550 keeps looking better and better.
Do I really need another camera...

That roof top moire does not look like an encoding issue to me. Some of the straight line aliasing may be.

It doesn't look like the Sony NEX-VG10 will have any audio recording level controls? Can someone confirm or deny this?

It looks like there is volume control on the headphone levels but not on recording levels? Can this be possible?

Oh, man, I was getting excited by this camera when I saw what Leica lenses look like on the NEX5 on Flickr... Hard earned money | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kahophotography/4812365206/lightbox/)

Red tile rooftops sure seem to bring out the worst in these hybrid sensor cameras... I noticed it too, along with some RS skew in fast panning, but I can edit out fast pans... the moire and aliasing present a more problematic issue, as they always have in DSLR footage I've seen. When they are good, they are very good, but when they are "bad"... they not so great.

I've got no doubts whatsoever that I'll eventually add "something" with shallow DoF, either along the lines of the VG10, or more likely one of the new Alpha series cameras with video... but it will be for specific shots, and unfortuantely won't be a "replacement" for a regular video camera (I'm with Robert, my CX550V's are looking better and better, with a couple CX500V's for multiangle, since they use the same sensor block and menus).

I see the VG10 as a "hybrid" more oriented towards the "video" side of the equation both in ergonomics and features (and it looks sexyier than a DSLR!), but for some people (myself in this camp), a camera skewed towards the "still" side with video capability might make the better choice...

FWIW, after playing with the DSC-TX1 and DSC-TX7, for "casual" shooting of both stills and video, you learn to work within the compromises of the design and just enjoy the relatively impressive results...

Chuck -
The NEX5 seems like a pretty sweet little still camera from what I've seen, those shots definitely "pop", and the interchangeable lens possibilities with the "E" mount are what will rocket this product line to the top of the sales charts, IMO.

Heck I will be keeping an eye out for the "I bought this camera and it's too complicated for me" resales of VG10's... what it does offer is interesting enough (and did I mention it's "sexy" compared to an old DSLR?) to make me want one!

Everything I have read confirms that there is no audio level recording control on the VG 10.
The other issue that is a potential deal killer for me is that with the lens adaptor and A series lenses you can operate only in manual focus (acceptable), BUT there is no way to adjust the f stop- manual or otherwise- you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable).
The more I learn about the VG10, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I might best wait for this Sony APS line to mature a little more before jumping in.
I look at the phenomonal product improvement from the Sony SR12, to the XR 520, to the current CX550 and can't help but think a similar evolution will occur with the VG10 line if it really takes off.
It does look absolutely sexy- on that basis alone, I'm sure they'll sell like hotcakes :)

"you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable)"

Assuming this were to be true -- one could only use shutter-speed to control exposure. On a bright day this might require a speed faster than possible. Of course ND filters could be used.

It seems unlikely Sony would develop an adaptor knowing it would be near impossible to shoot with it. I see no reason a lens with an aperature control would suddenly lose its ability to dial in an aperature.

Perhaps you mean lenses without an manual aperature?

It doesn't look like the Sony NEX-VG10 will have any audio recording level controls? Can someone confirm or deny this?

It looks like there is volume control on the headphone levels but not on recording levels? Can this be possible?]

Of course-- because there is no need for a control in the world of digital audio.

All that's needed is camera have a LIMITER (not an AGC) that prevents clipping at 0VU AND a mic that matches the sensitivity of the VG10 specification.

By using a mic with a matching sensitivity you prevent two issues:

1) signal levels so high they force the limiter to always be on.

2) signals so low that soft sounds will record down in the noise levels.

When you feed a digital system a signal that matches ITS sensitivity, the inherent range of digital audio is wide enough to handle the full sound level reaching the mic.

If you are using a mic mixer you use the Master to set the output level to match the camera and then adjust the mics relative to each other. If you are using a wireless mic -- look for one that has an adjustable output.

But, for the intended market, none of these should be an issue.

PS: there is one nasty. If you want to record 2 separate channels. The limiter may affect both channels. You'll need a mixer.

"you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable)"

Assuming this were to be true -- one could only use shutter-speed to control exposure. On a bright day this might require a speed faster than possible. Of course ND filters could be used.

It seems unlikely Sony would develop an adaptor knowing it would be near impossible to shoot with it. I see no reason a lens with an aperature control would suddenly lose its ability to dial in an aperature.

Perhaps you mean lenses without an manual aperature?

Steve,
The footnotes on the VG10 Sony Style webpage state that with the adaptor + the Sony A Class lenses you can shoot only manual focus and full open aperture.
I'm not really familiar with the Sony A lenses- f-stop may be camera only controlled with no aperture ring for true manual setting.

I was thinking of Minolta lenses, but it looks like the Minolta A-mounts may only support fully auto mode introduced with the MAXXON in 1985. These seem not to have an iris ring!

But, I remember reading K-mounts were also supported. These, I hope were fully manual.

Still looking.

No aperture rings on the A mounts I've got... the variable aperature ones change with zoom. So that would make the A mount lenses a bit problematic, never thought of that issue.

This may turn out to be one of those places where the already prolific E mount adapters come in quite handy... when you have a wide selection of possible lenses via adapter, it's not so important what "mount" your imager has, only that it has the desired qualities for recording what passes through the lens.

This may turn out to be one of those places where the already prolific E mount adapters come in quite handy... when you have a wide selection of possible lenses via adapter, it's not so important what "mount" your imager has, only that it has the desired qualities for recording what passes through the lens.

That's definitely a good work around. All my Nikon lenses have aperature rings.
But, it's just one more detail that makes me wonder if this camera/system is quite ready for prime time yet.
It's quite possible that Sony will expand their E series to faster lenses, prime lenses, etc., but no word on that yet.

And that raises another potential issue, especially for those of us spoiled by the IS of the 500/550 series...

Part of the attraction of the "A" mount was that the camera body contained the stabilization, so you didn't have the added cost in the lenses... I'm pretty sure the NEX series and E mount have the stabilization in the lens... meaning that the adapted lenses wouldn't be stabilized... not a huge problem for a still camera, but a video camera?

I'm guessing there is some IS in the body, but in the notes it says: Active Mode image stabilization feature is within the SEL18200 lens only.

It would appear that at least to some extent that image stabilization will be tied to the Sony E lenses...

But, I remember reading K-mounts were also supported. These, I hope were fully manual.


A lot of the more modern Pentax DA lenses do not have an aperture ring - it's expected that aperture will be controlled from the camera body. On the other hand I found this page with accessories supplier Novoflex with a bunch of options...among them the lens to camera adapter supplying the missing aperture ring for the lens.

Novoflex - Adapterfinder (http://www.novoflex.com/en/produkte/objektiv-adapter/adapterfinder/)

Well, that's a cool work-around for the iris problem. Looks like the Germans are ahead of the curve on this camera.
Here is also a hands on review at a German site (Google translated)
Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashcam.de%2Fartikel%2FTest%2FSony-NEX-VG10.html&sl=de&tl=en)
The translation creates some ambiguities, but one thing that caught my eye was the observation that the autofocus was sluggish. That's unwelcome.

"you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable)"

Assuming this were to be true -- one could only use shutter-speed to control exposure. On a bright day this might require a speed faster than possible. Of course ND filters could be used.

It seems unlikely Sony would develop an adaptor knowing it would be near impossible to shoot with it. I see no reason a lens with an aperature control would suddenly lose its ability to dial in an aperature.

Perhaps you mean lenses without an manual aperature?


I love Sony products. Probably bought 100s of them in the past 20 years. But, I can easily believe that they would develop this type of adaptor.

Sony made another adaptor not so long ago that wasn't optimum. The LA-100W Z7/Alpha adaptor.

Hook it up to a Z7 and it magnifies Alpha lenses 7x. With no IS.

Alpha system has IS in-camera. On the Z7, IS is in the 412 and 308 lenses.

The footage I've seen is shaky even on a large tripod.

It cost over $600.

Although, that adaptor does have a ring to control the aperture of the Alpha lenses (up to 1.4). So I guess it is possible to design.

But, given the lack of IS on the LA-100W and the apparent lack of aperture control the LA-EA1, per Sony's footnotes, both adaptors seem like an after thought.

Half baked at best, to be frank.

The translation creates some ambiguities, but one thing that caught my eye was the observation that the autofocus was sluggish. That's unwelcome.

I suspect this was a comment about the still camera's zoom and MAY not apply to the VG10's zoom lens. I hope!

I'm puzzled by the Sony adaptor not allowing control of a lens given it passes the electrical signals. I'm wondering if the footnote applies to AE while shooting.

Hard to believe that when one sets Manual Iris, an attached lens would not read the signal.

PS: About aliasing. I'm not sure any camera that also is intended to take hi-rez stills can have an optical anti-aliasing filter. Which would also open the door to Morie. (SP)

Reading BBC reports it seems low-cost HD camcorders have very simple low-pass filters which are hard pressed to suppress aliasing from really HIGH rez sensors.

About aliasing. I'm not sure any camera that also is intended to take hi-rez stills can have an optical anti-aliasing filter. Which would also open the door to Morie. (SP)

Reading BBC reports it seems low-cost HD camcorders have very simple low-pass filters which are hard pressed to suppress aliasing from really HIGH rez sensors.
I believe you are correct. With a sensor pixel count of 14 MP, an OLPF optimized for 1,920 x 1,080 would not yield good results at full sensor resolution.

The translation creates some ambiguities, but one thing that caught my eye was the observation that the autofocus was sluggish. That's unwelcome.

Manual translation: "The autofocus is nice and slow, so it will not distract by sudden focus movements during filming. On the other hand, when you press the photo button half way, it jumps to focus. However, the focus cannot be fixed in that mode."

From my understanding they were definitely talking about the kit lens.

Hope that helps,

Thomas

Thanks Thomas.
That's an alltogether different message.
Doesn't sound so bad after all.

I'm puzzled by the Sony adaptor not allowing control of a lens given it passes the electrical signals. I'm wondering if the footnote applies to AE while shooting.

Hard to believe that when one sets Manual Iris, an attached lens would not read the signal.


I will admit to being quite ignorant about the Sony Alpha mount. I do know that in the case of Pentax K-mount, it is not an electronic signal but a mechanical lever/tab in the lens that is moved by the camera.

I do understand Sony has tried to maintain backward compatibility with Minolta Maxxum lenses, so is Alpha mount in the same boat as Pentax in this regard? Thanks also for the info (Dave Blackhurst) that Sony, like Pentax, has shake reduction built into the body instead of the lens.

IIRC the iris control is electronic, not mechanical - been a while since I reviewed the mount configuration - I know there are two contact configurations, one older with fewer pins, and the current pin config - the old lenses work with the newer pin configuration, just with slightly reduced function/feaure set - I don't recall offhand what exactly isn't there, will have to go dig that up!

I will admit to being quite ignorant about the Sony Alpha mount. I do know that in the case of Pentax K-mount, it is not an electronic signal but a mechanical lever/tab in the lens that is moved by the camera.

I do understand Sony has tried to maintain backward compatibility with Minolta Maxxum lenses, so is Alpha mount in the same boat as Pentax in this regard? Thanks also for the info (Dave Blackhurst) that Sony, like Pentax, has shake reduction built into the body instead of the lens.

More adaptors:

M42 - Sony E-mount Lens Adapter | Bokkeh.com (http://www.bokkeh.com/home/item/11-m42-e-mount-adapter)

http://www.bokkeh.com/home/item/8-ltm-e-mount

PS: About aliasing. I'm not sure any camera that also is intended to take hi-rez stills can have an optical anti-aliasing filter. Which would also open the door to Morie. (SP)

Reading BBC reports it seems low-cost HD camcorders have very simple low-pass filters which are hard pressed to suppress aliasing from really HIGH rez sensors.
For any camera that has a large high-res sensor and is intended for both high-res stills AND HD video, any optical low pass filtration is likely to be useless. If it was suitable for suppressing video aliasing, it would render the stills unacceptably soft.

It's not impossible to design such a camera (good stills and video) in theory, though it may be stretching current technology to make it viable. Unlike the Canons, it needs to scan the entire sensor at frame rate (not skip most of the pixels) and then downresolve the frames with good lowpass filtration algorithms. It's possible - theoretically.

As a word about the great 24p debate, then whilst I agree with most of what Steve Mullen says in principle (30p is better), then don't forget about world compatability. 24p and 25p can be acceptably changed to each other IF the 4% speed change is accepted. Cinema films at 24fps have been shown on European TVs at 25fps for decades now, after all....

I agree that 24p is the most flexible although our PAL friends urge us to buy and shoot 25p. Then you can make a BD using 1080i50/25p or slow to 1080p25.

I'm not sure what LCD refresh rate Euro computers use. Is it 50Hz or 100Hz? Or, is it 60Hz. If it's 60Hz there's no problem adding pulldown to 24p. But, how is 25p and 1080i50 displayed???

PS: from a ne-5 review -- "The camera's auto-gain system also did a good job of adjusting sensitivity as sound levels got louder or softer, with no evident "breathing" in transitions from high to low sound levels."

This seems to imply a SMART AGC is being used.

Given the amount of time required for processing a frame of video (33mS), an audio DSP can do a good job of monitoring audio many samples in the future and in the past to better adjust the current sample's gain. These same DSP circuits have made digital hearing aids supposedly so much better.

Sometimes I feel folks continue to think audio works like it did in 1980 even though they are shooting HD in 2010.

Imagine my happy surprise to find my neighbor has a collection of Minolta lenses -- including the 500mm.