I think Robert might be confusing reports that RED had "abandoned" the consumer market. As Henry notes, they say they still plan to ship Scarlet, but it will be more expensive, and they are changing it's target market. They had thought they could go after the consumer DSLR market.

it's not abandoned.Delays yes....
oh come on, give me a brake, 2 years is not a delay :)
Scarlet is an urban legend

Buba - that is still a delay - a two year one - but still a delay. Show me a post where they say it is scrapped and I will agree. Ikonoskop are in the same place.

You seem like the typical Red hater and skeptic. I am not a fanboy but you gotta give it to them - they are pushing the envelope quite a bit. I visit the forum often to check progress.Yes they have failed to meet projections but I believe that they acknowledge that. The hype they create can be nauseating to some - yes . But folk who end up hating RED have lost perspective.....where can you get the specs they are offering at the prices they are offering elsewhere? Of course when they ship.................

Just so you know they have showed off a working Epic at a few trade shows .......apparently Scarlet is a little behind that in the schedule.......

By the way Buba.Jannard is a billionaire ..LOL...he may just sue you for saying his product is an urban legend.( joking )

I think Robert might be confusing reports that RED had "abandoned" the consumer market. As Henry notes, they say they still plan to ship Scarlet, but it will be more expensive, and they are changing it's target market. They had thought they could go after the consumer DSLR market.

Michael
I think, actually, you do have it right.
The announcement was a bit ambiguious, but it does seem clear that the Scarlet, as originally conceived, has been abandoned.

I'm very interested to see the low light performance- hoping it will be at least as good as the PD with wide adapter in place.

The low light performance is O.K. with the 3.5 lens. The camera produces very little noise at high gain- that's the saving grace.
For really good low light, however, I'm thinking more along the lines of something like a f-1.4 or 1.2, 50mm prime lens. Hopefully, something like this will be offered as a new E Lens in 2011.

Hi Robert - does the VG10 output clean HDMI out of interest? By that I mean without any overlays and uncompressed? Any way of tersting for us. Sorry if this has been asked

Hi Robert - does the VG10 output clean HDMI out of interest? By that I mean without any overlays and uncompressed? Any way of tersting for us. Sorry if this has been asked

I believe that it does.
I know that people are reporting that it works with the NanoFlash recorder.
However, a big problem for shooting (with the current firmware, anyway) is that with HDMI out activated, you have no image display on camera- either VF or LCD. You must use a monitor.
A big drawback :(

So.....what have we here is the gorgeous GF, wild in bed, stunning, but real moody syndrome.

PS: the low light sure looks good here:

Dolls - NEX VG10 low light test - Sony NEX-VG10 User Group on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/groups/nexvg10/videos/15206564)

however check the last few seconds of this clip

Nex-VG10 moire reduction and 50/1.4 ND tests on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/15366115)

wow. that's a fast lens. I see what you are talking about.

maybe a Sony SAL-50F14

I use the 50mm/1.8 because I didn't want to spend the money for the f/1.4. You can shoot without noise at +18db, or at +21dB with a very tiny bit of noise. The image will be far brighter than you can see with your eyes. I suppose the 1.4 might allow one to stay at +18dB.

There is NO noise in very dark shadows. Only in middle shades. No chroma noise at all.

That's reassuring.

Are there A-mount zooms faster than the current E-mounts?

OK I looked it up.

"Sony Alpha Lenses with SAM (Smooth Autofocus Motor) and SSM (Super Sonic Wave Motor) will be able to autofocus with the Sony NEX LE-EA1, according to the Sony Press release. So here is a list of Alpha Lenses with SAM or SSM:

Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 24mm f/2 ZA SSM (36 mm - equivalent focal length on the NEX)
CZ Vario-Sonnar® T* 16-35 mm f2.8 Zoom SSM (24 - 52.5 mm)
CZ Vario-Sonnar® T* 24-70 mm f2.8 Zoom SSM (36 - 105 mm)
Sony Alpha 30mm f/2.8 Macro Lens SAM (45mm)
SA 35 mm f/1.8 SAM (52.5 mm)
SA 50 mm f/1.8 SAM (75 mm)
SA 85 mm f/2.8 SAM (127.5 mm)
SA 300 mm f/2.8 G SSM (450 mm)
SA DT 18-55 mm f/3.5-5.6 Zoom Lens SAM (27 - 82.5 mm)
SA 28-75 mm f/2.8 Zoom Lens SAM (42 - 112.5 mm)
SA 55-200 mm f/4-5.6 Zoom Lens SAM (82.5 - 300 mm)
SA 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM (105 - 300 mm)
SA 70-300 mm f/4-5.6 G Zoom Lens SSM (105 - 450 mm)
SA 70-400 mm f/4-5.6 G Zoom Lens SSM (105 - 600 mm)

Since the nex3/5 have already been updated to autofocus with a-mounts, we are asumming vg10 will be updated on Nov, right?

The first one I'm getting is

Sony Alpha 30mm f/2.8 Macro Lens SAM (45mm). People rave about this cheap macro (200) and like it as a medium prime as well.

Here's a sweet 1080 utube that shows a bunch of lenes on the NEX 5, identified, on italian countryside in spring. Check out the 1500.00 135mm f/1.8 Lens. Note second sequence at 1:30, autofocus from hillside to flowers. Impressive.

YouTube - "?" NEX-5 Video "Light & Wind" Valdorcia, Italy ???????????????? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSjdobj0IQ)

Actually the 18-200 looks great in that, i thought.

Another which shows off the 18-200---looked amazing on my 42"

YouTube - Sony Nex-5 18-200mm Lens New York City Times Square Robot Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjeqVxxU2m8)

Since the nex3/5 have already been updated to autofocus with a-mounts, we are asumming vg10 will be updated on Nov, right?

Good question.
Sony has been very quiet.
I haven't seen much of anything but speculation re the firmware update.
People are assuming there will be AF with A-Lenses. The other issue is camera control of iris on A-Lenses- will it be included in the update, or will it still be wide open shooting only if the lens has no manual aperture ring.
We shall see.

Came across this which implies v3 nex-5 firmware allows aperature control of both E-mount and A-mount. It seems to say that in the earlier version of this closely related camera the A-mounts has functioning auto control of the iris from the camera.

"When Minolta introduced the Maxxum cameras in 1985, however, they did away with the aperture ring and used electronics inside the camera to regulate the aperture. If desired, the photographer could still manipulate the aperture manually, but it had to be done through a menu on the camera body.

This makes a conversion adapter for A-mount lenses more challenging to design. Conventional adapters rely on the user manually setting the aperture. Since there is no external method for changing the aperture on an A-mount lens, any useful adapter needs to provide a way for the camera to actually control the lens electronically.

Admittedly, it isn’t difficult to pass electrical information through an adapter. but the adapter needs to be designed so the camera’s aperture control can control the lens.

The LA-EA1 can do just that, providing automatic — and presumably manual — control of the lens from the camera’s controls. Since the auto-diaphragm on the A-mount lenses is also controlled electronically, the new adapter will provide auto-diaphragm capability as well.

What the adapter will not provide, however is auto-focusing. The overwhelming majority of A-mount lenses do not have internal focusing motors, so the adapter is not designed to offer auto-focus.

The other limitation is image stabilization. Sony Alpha dSLRs are famous for having image stabilization built into the body. In order to make the NEX bodies as small as possible, however, Sony engineered the small cameras to use in-lens stabilization. As a result, A-mount lenses mounted to the NEX series cameras will not have stabilization.

One other interesting feature of the adapter is the built-in tripod collar. The NEX series cameras are so small that there might be problems using a heavy lens on the camera while it is on a tripod. Sony eliminated the problem by incorporating a standard tripod mount within the adapter. You merely hang the camera body on the adapter, while all the weight of the lens is borne by the adapter."

From sony: "Unleash your creativity. Designed exclusively for α NEX-3 and NEX-5 cameras, the LA-EA1 adapter lets you mount α A-mount lenses to your E-mount camera body. Additionally, this adapter has Auto Exposure support with aperture mechanism and includes a detachable tripod attachment."

Next question: what older manual aperture lenses should we be hunting?

check out this thread:
Manual focus, manual aperture lenses on Nex [Page 1]: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=35699982&changemode=1)

Jeez this could be good--most of you prolly already know about it:
BA246B Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.4 Wide Angle Leica M Mount Lens - Black (http://www.adorama.com/VT4014.html?utm_source=gbase&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_term=Other)

5k porn on the nex-5:

Sony NEX-5 with leica 35 summilux DPP07DA081C001701 - a photo on Flickriver (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/williamchiu/4933428943/)

more:

Flickriver: Most interesting photos from Sony NEX-5 and Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander lens pool (http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1548589@N23/pool/interesting/)

from last, the Voigtlander ULTRON 28mmF2 at 579
Amazon.com: Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2.0 Lens with Leica M Mount - Black: Camera & Photo

and this seems almost a steal at 429.00

BA246B Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.4 Wide Angle Leica M Mount Lens - Black (http://www.adorama.com/VT4014.html?utm_source=gbase&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_term=Other)

and what must be the fastest lens for the nex series:

NOKTOR - Ultra Fast Lenses - Products (http://noktor.com/products.php)

Charlie,

Thanks for all the tests. The VG10 seems so close but the fact that the OLPF is for stills not video is creating all that moire. Why on earth did sony do that when you can pick up a nex 3 for very little! You could bundle one with the VG10 if they wanted to push stills.

Anyway, it does make me wonder whether it's feasible to swap the OLPF for something designed for HD resolution. After all who is using their cam for stills...

If it was swappable and the HDMI was uncompressed then it would make a really nice APS-C camcorder.

What do you think

cheers
paul

Regards moire, which many are aghast at:

Well, here's an update on the moire artifacting with the VG10, and some other recent observations as well.
I have shot a fair amount of test footage with the VG10, and was seeing an alarming amount of moire when viewing the transferred raw footage on my desktop monitor (1920x1080).
I wanted to see what was the best BR presentation the cam could provide, so I followed my usual HD workflow- converted the raw clips to Cineform HD.avi, put the Cineform clips on a timeline, trimmed and tossed a bit, rendered out to 25mbs h.264 Blu Ray, burned the BD, and just now watched it on a 50' Sony HDTV.
I saw two amazing things:
1) The footage really, really looked good. Images that looked a little flat, a little Ho Hum...yawn, on the raw AVCHD, looked absolutely lush. Beautiful color, excellent detail, good motion rendering, including pans. The DOF capability, even at f 6/7 range, provided a very subtle artistic effect to what were otherwise just "snapshot" type grabs. Autofocus seemed to be very effective at sticking to the foreground subject, and would gently refocus to the background on panning off of the subject.
I am finally impressed.
2) Most Amazing of All!!:
Maybe 80%-90% of the moire had mysteriously dissappeared. Minor moire was gone. Severe moire was still visable, but not very noticable except to critical observers like us. Footage that had looked unusable as raw AVCHD was now (with one single exception) usable in the BD version (by my standards anyway). This pretty well minimizes, for me anyway, what seemed to be a very severe flaw in the camera.



Robert keep us posted. I still need to get my workflow set up, perhaps cineform HD is the way to go with this.

I wonder how the moire will show in a down conversion for DVD

The times square "metal man" a few posts above showed moire, but I'm pretty sure there was no NLE work there.

Check out this:

http://vimeo.com/groups/nexvg10/videos/15416053

you might expect to see some with the strainer---none.

some other moire examples note that sharpening has not been adjusted.

While moire is visible in some examples, I don't see alot or any in 90% of the footage I've watched. Of course alot of that has been edited.

For me that's OK. Everything will go through NLE.

There are quite a few cry babies screaming about the issue and a few have even sent their cameras back. So quickly that you doubt they have really tried to address the issue, or done much NLE testing.

Came across this which implies v3 nex-5 firmware allows aperature control of both E-mount and A-mount. It seems to say that in the earlier version of this closely related camera the A-mounts has functioning auto control of the iris from the camera.

One potential fly in the ointment (apparently), is that camera control of the A lenses for still cameras is more straightforward because, apparently some of the lenses move only from stop to stop- not continuous, whereas for video, you need a lens with continuous iris motion.

While moire is visible in some examples, I don't see alot or any in 90% of the footage I've watched. Of course alot of that has been edited.

There is no question that moire is an issue with the VG10.
With the particular workflow I use, I still notice less moire on the final delivery product than I see in the raw AVCHD footage. Reducing the detail setting in the camera my help a bit as well.
It seems like any cam that is optomized for both still and video will have this problem.
But, for my purposes, this has not been a deal killer for the VG10.

Good to hear Robert

Funniest review of VG10--or perhaps of any video camera ever:

YouTube - Sony NEX VG-10: First Impressions & Hands-on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRSO12zfa8&hd=1)

Good video- Sony should hire the guy.
Another thing about the moire- if you are doing a $6M commercial for Lexus, probably not going to use a VG10
If you are making a ski video for friends, family, and web, a little moire on a roof top is probably not so critical.
IMO, things have only got to be as good as they need to be.

Whilst i agree with the comments above i would like to remind people that the moire could have been seriously reduced if sony had used a suitable OLPF. It seems insane to me to suggest a video camera could shot full res stills as well.

I'd suggest that whatever system was being used to view the AVC files perhaps wasn't scaling correctly, so full screen they look better with no dumb scaling going on.

Also day to day shooting very rarely happens at super wide apertures. This nice thing about this sensor is that it's APS-C and so those normal f5.6 apertures will still show depth of field but at more useful focus ranges. I'm sure the first thing we've all done is get a dSLR stick it a f1.4 marvel at the bokeh then realise that if the subject matter breathes they're not longer in focus - and pulling focus on modern lenses just isn't pretty!

cheers
paul

Paul -

While I've been concerned with the moire issues, and it's one reason I haven't jumped on the DSLR bandwagon (although as soon as I can put hands on an SLT-a55, I will be doing so, and if one of those "complainers" offs his VG10 for cheap on eBay...), it's not just this camera or DSLR's...

I've seen some pretty nasty moire on broadcast TV - one newsguys' suit was practically "vibro-tweed" it was so bad, I'm pretty sure the station had "better" and way more expensive cameras than the VG10. It was actually sort of "funny" to watch how the guys suit "danced" on screen - something in the fabric pattern definitely "did NOT agree" with the camera or something in the signal chain!

Like anything else (I seem to remember "red" being a problem color and "verboten" for actors/talking heads to wear), there are technological limits and challenges one must be aware of and deal with when shooting.

It's a terrible shock to the "consumer" when a piece of technology isn't "perfect" (like the stupid "blue dot" controversy with the CX550V - lens flare happens people...), but from a practical standpoint, todays cameras represent enormous imaging potential at price points that are very affordable. "Pros" on the other hand are thrilled to be able to create incredibly high quality images for "peanuts", and will figure out workarounds to the shortcomings.

Also day to day shooting very rarely happens at super wide apertures. This nice thing about this sensor is that it's APS-C and so those normal f5.6 apertures will still show depth of field but at more useful focus ranges. I'm sure the first thing we've all done is get a dSLR stick it a f1.4 marvel at the bokeh then realise that if the subject matter breathes they're not longer in focus - and pulling focus on modern lenses just isn't pretty!

cheers
paul

A point that hits home for battlefield wedding shooters like me, hehe

check out this

Eye on Vimeo

shot on 10/18

What has me pretty excited is the prospect of using old manual lenses. I was over at a computer client's who has a lecia m6 gathering dust with a sweet 50mm sumicron onboard which i hope to borrow for some testing. With the current adapter rings you can use so many lenses.

The contax G 90mm sure looks impressive:

NEX 5/Contax G 90mm lens: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=36734517&q=contax&qf=m)

the kipon adaptor allows for manual focus as noted. aperture control is on the lens, if i am not mistaken---

YouTube - CONTAX G to SONY NEX E Mount Adaptor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl0Y-7UhZf8)

for budget bokeh:

SLR Magic 35mm f/1.7 MC lens for NEX-3 NEX-5 - eBay (item 250685129615 end time Nov-17-10 04:26:36 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/SLR-Magic-35mm-f-1-7-MC-lens-NEX-3-NEX-5-/250685129615?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3a5dff838f)

video with same:

Wild Toys on Vimeo

check out this selection of adaptors from german site:
http://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/Lens-Mount-Adapter/Sony-E-NEX:::197_413.html

if you click on the specific adaptor it gives details on aperture control, etc and actually has utube for each

Below NEX with Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.4 M-Mount Lens

nex5+nokton40.4 video test on Vimeo

Last another movie which shows a bunch of sony lenses, note esp the 100mm macro

Sony NEX-VG10 First Film! (Jeju Island, Korea) on Vimeo

the 70-400 is something too, but I have to say the kit 18-200 looks spectacular, and the e-mount 16 seems very sweet also--I will have this with the NEX-5 kit I ordered--yum.

the 100mm macro is spendy at 679, but OMG the images!. There is a 200.00 a-mount macro which has some fans, 30mm f/2.8.

and this just in re NEX-5 firmware v3:

"updated mine too and to my surprise, other than AF working with my sony 50 1.8, the AF works with my Sig 70-300 OS! this means AF will work on sigma HSM lenses too "

127.5mm F1.4 lens with working AF anyone?

http://m.sigmaphoto.com/news/sigma-corporation-of-america-announces-us-pricing-availability-of-85mm-f14-ex-dg-hsm-lens.cfm

What a great low-light tele, review:
http://www.alanabramsphotography.com/2010/10/sigma-85mm1-4-ex-dg-hsm-lens-review-part-1/

OK OK I'm obsessing

...........i would like to remind people that the moire could have been seriously reduced if sony had used a suitable OLPF. It seems insane to me to suggest a video camera could shot full res stills as well.
I think you need to remember this is a CONSUMER camera, at a consumer price, and think of the market it's intended for. Yes, consumers, who may just want to take one camera on holiday with them, but want that to take either video or (high quality) stills as appropriate.

Until this camera, the best option was a DSLR - optimised heavily (not surprisingly) for stills, but able to produce pretty fair video, if with limitations, especially ergonimic ones.

The VG10 may be aimed at a similar market - but with video given a higher priority relative to stills - whilst maintaining the high res still capability. Which any OLPF inclusion would have lost.

...a CONSUMER camera, at a consumer price, and think of the market it's intended for. Yes, consumers, who may just want to take one camera on holiday with them, but want that to take either video or (high quality) stills as appropriate.

Until this camera, the best option was a DSLR - optimised heavily (not surprisingly) for stills, but able to produce pretty fair video, if with limitations, especially ergonimic ones.

Close.....but that camera is the NEX-5, which can shoot basically just as good video as the VG10, except it overheats in about 10min. For holiday there is no comparison, the NEX-5 is tiny and can use any lens the VG10 can.

Sony's marketing is very clear in the Bali promo for the VG10. Submissions to the film festivals are through the roof and I think sony is marketing to the indie wannabe.

For all it's short comings, the fact is no fixed lens video camera can compete with the variety of visual images which the VG10 can produce. Cost: no motor zoom. No XLR? BFD. The on-camera mic is the best ever seen on any camera, and to top it (for the same purpose) you are going to have to spend some big bucks. If you wanna get fancy on the audio you have many stand alone options for recording.

They are talking about this camera in the indie forums.

The VG10 has brought the glass and the sensor to the digital filmaker in a small, attractive video camera form factor. Who would rather shoot from a DSLR?

NEX-5 with 50mm nikkor 1.4
Bokeh Sony NEX-5 with Nikkor 50mm f1.4D on Vimeo

Just found one of these on ebay, 90 shipped, fingers crossed
Pentax-M 50mm f/1.4 on a T2i on Vimeo

David,

Yes, it's a consumer camera. Sony isn't about to produce something that will eat into sales of XDCAM. However the market for indies is tiny (the vocal minority) and may not be addressed directly by someone like Sony. I can't see them coming out with an XDCAM style APS-C sensor for sub $10k prices. Their APS-C pro camera is rumoured over $30k, which makes sense when you look at their line up. I hope i'm wrong.

So the idea of ripping the OLPF off and sticking a HDMI recorder is tempting.. I much prefer the APS-C size to micro 4/3s. I'm not against a bit of jury rigging.

What i would like to see is that they start sampling full res frames down to HD size. Canon are rumoured to be working on that for next year. Obviously this would mean next gen sensors and hardware. But you'd end up creating super pixels out of individual pixels and would get amazing noise characteristics if they did.

In the meantime this cam is so cheap for what it offers that it's a great deal. The little Nex's are amazing in that regard too. If perhaps the firmware can be hacked and the compression sorted out that would be perfect.

Charlie,

The beauty is all that glass out there. I've a voigtlander 35mm f1.4 on the way as a walk around lens. And i'm eyeing the 50mm f1.1 too. Characterful glass, manual focus, Just like it used to be. From a stills view point i'm mainly a canon guy but i will be grabbing a little nex to experiment, a modern day rangefinder. I'm also curious whether the HDMI in these little guys is recordable too. But that's just playing with toys!

Dave,

It's difficult to pinpoint where the moire comes from in broadcast, there's every chance that it's a result of low sampling and compression before broadcast. I see that all the time on satellite feeds. It's awful. As an industry quality levels are getting worse and worse...



cheers
paul

sorry, a bit off topic, but I believe i have a right to reply :)
By the way Buba. Jannard is a billionaire ..
Oh really? I thought he has a couple part time jobs struggling to pay bills, and that’s why Scarlet release getting “delayed” :)
By the way Henry, I don't really care about personal wealth of anybody, including Mr. Jannard, I'm talking about public announcements of the company with regards of specific product line,
if I’d give my clients different price and delivery date every time they ask - I wouldn’t have any

You seem like the typical Red hater and skeptic.

No my man, you got it all wrong :)
I love RED camera, worked many times with it, and I will definitely get Epic when it’s available; it’s just that I can’t take serious anyone who can’t keep his own words,
few years in a row :)
sgain, I'm talking about Scarlet only as a product line


Just so you know they have showed off a working Epic at a few trade shows

now I know Henry , thank you :)

.......apparently Scarlet is a little behind that in the schedule.......

Not even funny

Is there a peaking or some sort of focus assist function to help focus properly; how do you handle focus; I have EX1 (which has same LCD) and can't imagine get sharp shots without peaking function.

You the VF not the LCD for manual focus. Works very well.

I rarely use VF to focus; specially when I run and gun or have camera elevated high on tripod; so there is no expanded focus nor peaking I understand...so HOW do you focus when you have camara mounted on tripod higher than your eye level??? As I said I have EX1 with same LCD and it is impossible to forcus in HD without peaking or expanded focus (specially with such a shallow dept of fileld).

What i would like to see is that they start sampling full res frames down to HD size. Canon are rumoured to be working on that for next year.

Perhaps we won't need to down sample. :)

Japanese broadcaster NHK is planning public displays of its Ultra High-Definition TV system which supposedly offers a picture 16 times clearer than today's HDTVs.

However, before you get too excited, the publication adds that it could be 2020 before you see UHDTV in anyone's living room.

Still, NHK says it will shoot some of the 2012 London Olympics in the format and then transmit the images to public displays in Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The format offers 8K resolution; 7,680 horizontal pixels x 4,320 vertical pixels.

One obstacle in UHDTV's way: To display the ultra-clear image, sets should be in the 80-90 inch range.

-----

My comment: Having been in Japan when the transition to NHK lab HDTV to actual selling product, that's about the right time frame. But, Japan is desperate for a new product and 3D may not be it. So it could be pushed sooner. I'm going to have one installed in my coffin!

I rarely use VF to focus; specially when I run and gun or have camera elevated high on tripod; so there is no expanded focus nor peaking I understand...so HOW do you focus when you have camara mounted on tripod higher than your eye level??? As I said I have EX1 with same LCD and it is impossible to forcus in HD without peaking or expanded focus (specially with such a shallow dept of fileld).
Nex-5 has very good manual focus assist, but vg10 not. Some speculate this feature will be added in nov firmware update.

I just ordered several manual primes, 35mm f2 and 50mm 1.4. I will let you know next week how hard the focus is.

Nex-5 is rapidly becoming a legend.

Buba - don't take everything I say too seriously but I get your points. Red have the tendency to have a love hate relationship with some folk and I guess it's not a bad thing what they are doing...........just bad at scheduling.....Good luck with everything.

I would so love to get this Sony but it seems prosumer oriented. Lovely images but same old issues...moire, aliasing etc.

Nex-5 Focus assist in still mode only.

Just borrowed out a few sweet lenses to try on the VG10

elmarit 28mm

Thyri... " wot eye fink of Mr. BeLL on Vimeo

elmarit 90mm

Video Vignette: Elmarit-M 90mm on Vimeo

summilux 50mm

Panasonic GH1 Night Test - Hungry Ghost Festival on Vimeo

and a somewhat more run of the mill nikkor 50mm 1.4
Canon 7D nikkor 50mm 1.4 on Vimeo

I will have 3 1.4 50mms to try: pentax, nikkor and summilux--- will be interesting to compare sharpness wide open and bokeh in general.

I have a bid in on one of these but don't expect to win:

Spieshmit on Vimeo

Below NEX-5 auto focus with sony 70-400 SSM A mount lens (VG10 should perform the same)
http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2010/10/nex-la-ea1-with-70-400-ssm-lens.html

here NEX-5 alongside new a55 and normal dslr.

http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2010/10/sony-alpha-nex-5-vs-slt-a33-vs-a700.html

and NEX-5 Mounted on RC helicopter shooting wildlife at 1:51 in video below
http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2010/10/sony-nex-5-helicopter-rig-in-action.html

if yout think that's just one crazy german, check this:
http://www.rebotnix.com/index.php/media.html
NEX-5 shooting HD from another RC heli which features articulation

NEX-5 is also likely to be underwater video camera of choice, with many housings already available.

The adapter selection is vast, including to telescopes--all adapters should work with VG10: here is a list
Amazon.com: sony nex mount adapter

Including at least four tilt adapters to produce effects like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvsVDYc2_w&feature=player_embedded

and a nice comparison of VG10 vs GH1 vs 5D2 in video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvJBUlEW4&feature=related

and this guy pulled the infared filter from his NEX-5 for some spectacular stills:
http://www.pbase.com/pganzel/sony_nex_converted_to_infrared

full review of the VG10 kit lens:
http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/539-sony18200f3563nex

The NEX-5 can shoot basically just as good video as the VG10, except it overheats in about 10min. For holiday there is no comparison, the NEX-5 is tiny and can use any lens the VG10 can.

Curious where you got the 10 minute number. From Sony? Or, from someone posting on the net?

The lack of magnify on shooting video is both a pain and a blessing. Without the VG10's VF it's going to be much harder to MF focus! On the other hand, trying to follow a moving subject with TWO pictures displayed simultaneously is crazy making.

I suspect the NEX 5 will be used in AF mode.

But, don't assume you can do this with non E-mount lenses. I've seen many demos and it requirers about 5 seconds. Not good for video. Also, non E-mount lenses can be noisey. Frankly, I plan to stay with e-mount lenses except for some PRE-MAXUUM very fast lenses. These will bring back fully manual shooting.

I suspect that there's a mixup between the NEX5 (E mount mirroless) which I don't recall seeing any heat issues with, and the SLT-A55 (translucent mirror A mount) which has very short "working" times under certain conditions, as short as a few minutes when using the in body SSS.

All these new cameras, so many details!

Hey Steve,

10 mins is a bit exaggerated--sorry

here is the thread about nex-5 video overheating

NEX5 Overheating during video...: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=35714002&changemode=1)

And a newer thread
NEX-5 overheated: Sony NEX Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&thread=36794111)

I think you are right, any sort of event shooting would require e-mount lenses for the live action or key sequences, with exotic primes reserved for set shots. But I'll have a nex-5 and a vg10, so I can potentially put an exotic prime on the little nex and shoot atmosphere here and there. That is if I can get confident enough with VG10 in that circumstance.

worried about the ND, but Bob Young says (over at vimeo):
"Just got the VariND and it seems to work as advertised.
In daylight shooting I can just leave it on the cam, leave shutter at 1/60 or whatever, then dial in the f-stop I desire by rotating the filter.
Recorded images look crisp and clean.
IMO, the definite way to go with the VG10.
I only need to remove the filter in true "low light" situations.
Now the VG10 operates more or less like my EX1"

What I learned yesterday was the variND has vignetting at the wider focal lengths and is 390.00

Instead I will try the ND fader, which requires no step up ring and is less than 100.00

Light Craft Workshop - Fader ND adjustable ND filter (ND2~400) (http://lightcraftworkshop.com/site/page1000.aspx)

What I learned yesterday was the variND has vignetting at the wider focal lengths and is 390.00

Instead I will try the ND fader, which requires no step up ring and is less than 100.00

The beauty of the VariNd, or ND fader WITH the step-up ring is that there is NO vignetting at the wide end of the lens.

Bob, thanks so much for chiming in.

You have both filters (VariND and ND fader) and have tested them with the stock 18-200?

The ND fader acutally comes in the correct 67 mm filter size--but I would see vignetting without a step up?

What size ND fader are you using and where are you getting the step up ring, if so?

Do you see any difference in performance with VariND and ND fader?

TY, Sir

Some info here:

"Realize that the Fader ND's have a built-in step-down ring. The 77mm has 82mm front glass. The 82mm has 86mm front glass. " (Mitchell Lewis)

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/475195-lightcraft-workshop-77-82mm-fader-nd-filter.html

I have no experience with the ND Fader, but I doubt it is any thinner than the "thin" version of the VariND which comes smallest in 77mm size. So a 67-77 step up is needed anyway for the VariND.
The 67mm ND Fader may or may not be a problem. The thin version of the VariND is a little less than 2 protective (uv, daylight, etc.) filters screwed together.
You can look up the stats on the thickness of both filters.
The step up ring is a standard product (B&H, etc.), and the 77mm filter is certainly a bulletproof way to assure no vignetting. It doesn't overhang the overall lens diameter signifcantly, so there is no real downside.
Just to be clear- I do have the VariND 77mm filter and use it for all daylight shooting.
I leave the shutter at 1/60 an use the VariND to control f-stop.

Bob, with the 77mm VariND installed can you still fit the stock lens hood?

Thanks,
Jr. Pascual

I rarely use VF to focus; specially when I run and gun or have camera elevated high on tripod As I said I have EX1 with same LCD and it is impossible to forcus in HD without peaking or expanded focus (specially with such a shallow dept of fileld).

I wouldn't say one can't focus using the LCD. I just put my eyes only a few inches from it.

And, I guess I've never thought of putting a camera on a tripod higher than my eyes as I knew I couldn't see the VF. I suppose I'd stand on a box.

What did you do before pro camcorders had LCDs?

Bob, with the 77mm VariND installed can you still fit the stock lens hood?

Thanks,
Jr. Pascual

No.
Even if you were able to jury rig it, you would then not be able to get to the ND filter ring to adjust it.
That is one downside to using the variable ND filters, circular polarizers, etc.

Well both the nex-5 and the vg10 came last nite, along with all three current emount lenses.

First impressions:

Build: big contrast. Nex-5 outstanding build quality- metal body. VG10, lighter and smaller than I expected, but I'll give a 4 out of 10 in build. Very "Plasticky". Tripod mount is better on the NEX-5 than the VG10, where it's plasticky also. Slight lens play with 18-200, as noted by others. The zoom ring is ridiculously tight--hoping it will loosen up. This makes smooth hand-held zooms quite hard, but it's fine on a monopod. Useable in event circumstances--where the 18-200 would be a must alot of the time.

The Nex-5 is incredible--almost a "must-have". I whipped on a pentax 50mm 1.4 circa 1970, and the manual controls were superb. focus was easy. iris adjustments show right away. This thing is a manual lens machine. The 16mm is a good lens also. Fast AF.

Low-light--great with any fast prime on either camera of course. This thing shoots iso 3200 with little grain. In video modes you can go high with the gain. The 18-200 is acceptable--on first look it's not way off my PD170 w/ wide adapter.

My Lecia M adapter comes later this week, can't wait to try the 28, 50 and 90 I've borrowed.

I also have a Kiron 28 f2 coming. A 50mm is like a 75, so the 24 to 44mm primes will be especially useful.

In summary: I'd be in heaven if the build on the VG10 approached the PD170, but it's not close. They should have put another 200 into the case. It does fit in the hand well. It will do, I think.

In summary: I'd be in heaven if the build on the VG10 approached the PD170, but it's not close. They should have put another 200 into the case. It does fit in the hand well. It will do, I think.

Hmmm...
I've used the VG10 quite a bit over the last month or so, and I'm actually pretty satisfied with the build quality of the body. The little T-handle is very solid, the inclusion of an HD VF (same as on the EX1r, I believe) is excellent, handgrip is nicely done. The tripod mount is not good, but there is already a workaround for that (remove the metal plate and epoxy the screw recepticle to the plate), and the microphone assembly is priceless.
For a $1,200 body it seems to be more than on a par with other Sony products in that price range- like the CX550- except the VF on the CX is very lo rez, and the microphone is only mildly adequate.
Don't forget that the PD 170 was significantly more expensive when it was first released (I'm remembering, like $3K), plus you can add a few more dollars to cover inflation since then.
We'll see how you feel when you get a few miles on it :)
BTW, the zoom ring definitely loosens up with use.
The VG10 is a consumer level product, but to me it seems very solidly built, and cleverly designed for what it is, and what it costs.
You'll have fun with it.

rgr that Bob, glad to hear it's holding up well.

Let me ask you another question:

Can you feel the 18-200 move at the mount as you change zoom direction? I can. It's not "loose" but it does rotate very slighty and hit a stop in either direction when rotational force is applied.

When I switch the lens to my Nex-5 I get the same thing, so it does seem to be a characteristic of the lens. This has also been commented on by several users at the vimeo forum, with one guy actually going to a store and trying several copies-- each seeming to have this same little quirk.

TY again sir.

If there's already a thread on this, I apologize and feel free to provide a link, but I just purchased the VG10, and I was wondering if there was any advantage to purchasing the LA-EA1 A-mount adapter and A-mount lenses. I've read that you can now use autofocus with A-mount lenses with the firmware upgrade for the adapter, but that the autofocus is quite slow. If others have the A-mount adapter with an A-mount lens, can you give any input on the speed vs. the E-mount lens included?

Also, does anyone know if the A-mount adapter would allow the autofocus to work with the Tamron Tamron AF 28-75mm f/2.8 SP XR ZL Di LD Aspherical (IF) Lens in the link below; it's similar to the Sony version but $300 cheaper?

Amazon.com: Tamron AF 28-75mm f/2.8 SP XR ZL Di LD Aspherical (IF) Lens for Konica Minolta and Sony Digital SLR Cameras: Camera & Photo: Reviews, Prices & more

Can you feel the 18-200 move at the mount as you change zoom direction? I can. It's not "loose" but it does rotate very slighty and hit a stop in either direction when rotational force is applied.
Yes.
It moves about the same amount as my Nikon lenses do on my Nikon D300 body.
I think it's probably normal for interchangable lenses.
IMO, this is not a camera that is well suited for any fancy zoom shots. I think it's going to be creep in a bit, or creep out a bit, but not much more than that.

Current VG10 users: do you miss a peaking and zebra stripes-function? Some Dutch reviewers found this quite serious omissions in this otherwise very good cam.

Peaking and zebras would be great, but they are not typically available on consumer cams. So, not a big surprise that the VG10 doesn't have them.
I think the autoexposure system is quite competant, and the LCD image is high quality enough that I can make exposure adjustments based on what I can see.
The more serious issue IMO, is the lack of focus assist, like peaking, or expanded focus.
The DOF of this camera, even at mid range f-stops, is significantly shallow. So accurate focusing is a serious issue.
One clever feature that helps a bit- when in AF mode, if you press the "photo" button, the camera will refocus and light up the sensors it is using- so you can see what the camera is actually focusing on in the frame. If this feature were available in MF mode, it would be even more useful. Perhaps this could somehow be activated via a firmware update.
Another workaround is to zoom in a bit on the subject with MF, make the critical focus, then reframe the scene.
But, however you deal with it, critical focus is a major issue on large chip cameras, and having some sort of onboard effective focus aids would be a big help.

Peaking and zebras would be great, but they are not typically available on consumer cams. So, not a big surprise that the VG10 doesn't have them.


Like the Sony HDR-HC9 (zebras) and Canon HF-S200/20/21 (zebras+peaking).
I rather think even an upper level consumer camera should have at least one, and preferably both.
I use zebras all the time on the HDR-HC9.

I'm just starting to get familiar with the HF-S200, so I can't say much on that yet.
But those features are very much there.

Given the body price of the NEX-VG10 is $1200 vs. the Canon HF-S200 at $740, the HF-S21 at $1100, that's embarrassing.
Just my opinion.

Like the Sony HDR-HC9 (zebras) and Canon HF-S200/20/21 (zebras+peaking).
I rather think even an upper level consumer camera should have at least one, and preferably both.
I use zebras all the time on the HDR-HC9.

Good points.
I definitely stand corrected.
Sony did have zebras on the SR-12, but dropped them from the subsequent models.
Who knows why Sony is so stingy about this- seems like it would be just a software type of issue to include these features.
But, nonetheless, the current crop of Sony consumer cams don't have them, so, although I was disappointed, I wasn't really suprised by their absence in the VG10.