I am wondering as to the current IO devices supported, specifically output for firstlight.

I am looking at buying some of the new Blackmagic USB 3 IO devices and was wondering if firstlight supports these...and if not some other suggestions.

Thanks

Cool, I had never heard of the USB 3 devices. We support BlackMagic devices if they support the decklink drivers, like the DeckLink Pros and Intensity Pro. So this might work, but that would be up to how BMD implemented them.

Hi Mike,

Allow me to warn you about USB 3. I have 3 PCs, a new $6k HP Z800, $3k custom built & a Dell laptop, all with Win 7 Pro x64. I tried a Siig expresscard adapter in the laptop and in both PCs through an expresscard to PCIe adapter (that I use to download SxS cards). I also used an ASUS U3S6 PCIe card in both desktops. Every single Win 7 installation was damaged and required re-installation. Not even Windows Restore worked. I did try Win 7 Pro x32 on the laptop to see if that made a difference but it did not. At the moment, the problem lies with the USB 3 drivers which are all made by NEC.

However, if you get the USB 3 BM products to work, please let us know your experience.

Btw, the Aja Kona LHe & LHi PCI Express cards work with Cineform.

i'll call them today...
I want to see if it will work with the dreamcolor as well....has to be true progressive not psf...

it looks to me as if the blackmagic intensity shuttle should work...but in my case i need to go to a dreamcolor...which requires true progressive and RGB output...

it seems blackmagic stuff is mostly YUV....and I would need to buy a converter from aja

the AJA IO express seems like it does everything, and in true RGB Progressive...just at a price 4.5 times greater then the Intensity shuttle

it's always something...
at least on the cineform side there are a lot of options....the dreamcolor complicates it quite a bit though.

Unless you need the Dreamcolor to display 10bit AND use all of the Deamcolor's presets, then you don't need to have a true progressive and RGB input. I researched the Dreamcolor when I needed a 24" LCD for color correction/grading, and its need for Pr/RGB excluded it from my choices. I recall fairly vividly that this requirement only causes the Dreamcolor to enable 10 bit display and all of its presets (aka the Dreamcolor Engine).

FWIW, I ended up getting an Eizo CG243W, which also has several presets like the HP. And according to several reviews and several sites, the HP uses Dithering to display 10 bit, which means it is not a true 10bit display.

FYI, the DVI output provides RGB & Progressive, just not 10bit. For 10bit, I use a Quadro FX 3800 with DisplayPort. At the moment, the only 10bit capable computer output I am aware of is DisplayPort and only Quadro and FirePro cards provide 10bit Displayport.

been running the dreamcolor for a couple of years now...and using the dreamcolor color engine is a must...i am primarily grading footage for one of our red's so 10 bit and rgb is nice to have. There are a few 10 bit ouput options...aja IO express matrox mxo2 and blackmagic intensity shuttle(not the intensity pro) and virtually all of the high end kona cards.
anything hdmi 1.3 and above is capable of 14bit, so hdmi works along with displayport, and a dual link DVI can do 10 bit but you'll find almost no one has them enabled through drivers

None of the nvidia cards outside of the quadros will actually do 10 bit whether DVI HDMI or displayport.Nvidia intentionally disabled there output to force you into a quadro

and the dithering is an old rumour from someone who assumed the panel was only 8 bit with dithering...i talked with there engineers at nab and they have stated publicly in writing that this is not the case.....remember dreamworks studio runs these as well.

Please let us know if the USB 3 route works for you. I have several hundred dollars worth of USB 3 gear just sitting on the shelf until they get the drivers fixed. Maybe there is a good reason why Intel refuses to support USB 3.

FYI, from what I have read, the ASUS U3S6 PCIe card is rock solid, which is why I purchased it. Newegg.com - ASUS Model U3S6 USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s Add-on card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004&cm_re=u3s6-_-13-995-004-_-Product)

will do...
i may look into this USB 3 issue before jumping the gun....I've been stung by bleeding edge tech before

FYI...we're waiting on a USB3 device from Blackmagic. They assure us that the drivers are compatible with existing devices which means adding support should be straightforward. We'll let you know after we receive the device and have tested.

Does First Light support 10 bit RGB playback yet?

Not yet. 10-bit YUV via AJA Kona. We will likely add dual link RGB 10-bit support for AJA, Blackmagic and hopefully NVidia. We have dual link via NVidia now, but that is only 8-bit.

Please let us know if the USB 3 route works for you. I have several hundred dollars worth of USB 3 gear just sitting on the shelf until they get the drivers fixed. Maybe there is a good reason why Intel refuses to support USB 3.

FYI, from what I have read, the ASUS U3S6 PCIe card is rock solid, which is why I purchased it. Newegg.com - ASUS Model U3S6 USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s Add-on card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004&cm_re=u3s6-_-13-995-004-_-Product)

I am also interested to know if the BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle works with Asus's USB 3.0 PCIe 4x card.
(like most people, my two PCs (one AMD one Intel) both have USB 2.0 motherboards).

Newegg.com - ASUS Model U3S6 USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s Add-on card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004)

There is also another company that makes a USB 3.0 PCIe card.
Buffalo Technology DriveStation SuperSpeed USB 3.0 PCI Express 2-Port Interface Card

it looks to me as if the blackmagic intensity shuttle should work...but in my case i need to go to a dreamcolor...which requires true progressive and RGB output...

it seems blackmagic stuff is mostly YUV....and I would need to buy a converter from aja

Blackmagic, for some reason, only supports YUV 4:2:2 over HDMI (10/8 Bit) and they only support RGB over their SDI hardware and that is 10-Bit only (no 8-Bit RGB support). Anyway know if USB 3.0 has the bandwidth for 8-Bit 4:4:4 RGB 720p/1080p?

Aaron, SDI=270Mb/s, single link 422 HD-SDI=1.5Gb/s, dual-link & 3G 444 HD-SDI=3Gb/s, USB 3 max theoretical bandwidth=5Gb/s

David,

You say Dual-Link support for Aja & BM - are you referring to dual-link HD-SDI or are you referring to Aja's IO Express and its Dual-Link DVI and also BM's HDLink and its DL DVI?

Also, I don't see how its possible to make the Dual Link DVI from any nvidia card output 10bit since nvidia doesn't enable it in their drivers.

Because we are on the 10bit subject, I would like to know a few things. I have a Quadro FX3800 w/ displayport connected to my Eizo CG243W - both are 10bit. I will buy an Aja Kona LHe and connect to my Panny BT-LH1710 via HD-SDI - both are 10bit. So my question is whether or not I will see 10bit on both of my 10bit LCDs when editing Cineform 10bit 422 within Premiere Pro CS5 and After Effects CS5.

Thanks

Dual Link HDSDI.

NVidia, under NDA

Only via Kona currently (under their preset) -- we don't drive 10-bit via display port yet.

Steve, what BlackMagic hardware have you tried using with your ASUS U3S6?
And is NEC aware of the issues you have encountered?

Aaron, I have not used any BM hardware.

About NEC: several people at my local microcenter know about the driver issues and there are reports online as well.

Hi,

Just to clear up a few things regarding USB 3.0:

There should be no serious issues regarding the NEC (now known as 'Renesas') driver. You should download their latest one (version 2.0.4.0 I think...). Firmware also should be at version 3.0.2.5, but this is less important.

I'm not sure why you are having problems with windows 7 crashing. I have used many NEC cards in many machines and have not seen this issue. Maybe you have a faulty card?

Now, regarding USB3.0 cards in general there are some very important issues that you should be aware of:

The NEC USB3.0 host controller is a single lane PCIe Gen 2 device. PCIe Gen 2 is 5Gb/s which, surprise surprise, is exactly the same bandwidth as USB3.0 (their specifications are very similar at the electrical level). It is however possible for this device to run on a PCIe Gen 1 slot, which is only 2.5Gb/s. Now obviously this is going to impact your USB3.0 bandwidth.

Whether your USB3.0 host plug in card (or on board USB3.0 host for that matter) gets a Gen 2 PCIe connection is down to your motherboard. I've seen some motherboards that always give a Gen 2 PCIe connection, some that never do and some that have BIOS settings to allow you to control it (but then override this when other cards are plugged in the system). As general advice I would say that X58 based motherboards always seem to give PCIe Gen 2 and P55 based motherboards are variable.

So, in order for you to *guarantee* that your USB3.0 host gets a PCIe Gen 2 connection you need to use a USB3.0 card (or motherboard) that uses a 2 lane PCIe Gen 1 to 1 lane PCIe Gen 2 bridge (like the ASUS U3S6 card which uses a PLX PCIe-PCIe bridge chip in front of the USB3.0 host controller).

The ASUS card is a 4 lane PCIe card so you obviously need an appropriate slot to plug this in. But the important thing is it doesn't need to be PCIe Gen 2 so if you have a 4/8/16 lane Gen 1 slot then you will have the full 5Gb/s bandwidth.

Clear as mud?

Matthew, I already stated that I used both the ASUS U3S6 card and the Siig Expresscard USB 3. I installed the ASUS in both of my desktop PCs, a HP Z800 and a custom built w/ ASUS P6T motherboard. For the Siig adapter, I used it in a Dell laptop and my custom built PC through a Siig PCIe to Expresscard adapter (which I use to download SxS cards and have also used it with the Matrox Mini).

The HP Z800 has Win 7 Pro x64, custom PC has Win 7 Ultimate x64, and I tried both Win 7 Pro x64 and 32 bit in the Dell.

The Sata 6 on the U3S6 worked just fine.

On the HP Z800, the display was completely screwed up after installing the NEC drivers. At first, I thought my Quadro FX3800 was bad but I have Win 7 installed on 2 different drives in the HP, and Win 7 on my 'work' drive was completely fine. I even tried restoring to before the NEC drivers, but my display was still screwed up; thus, my conclusion that the NEC drivers corrupted my installation.

I still have the ASUS card and several Vantec USB 3 enclosures; so, I do want it to work.

Received Blackmagic Shuttle, installed OK, can monitor from AE CS4.

Wondering if Cineform has any further news about making this device work with Firstlight?

(I am currently using v420b240 - does not appear to work with this.)