Hello, A quick decision has forced me into choosing a 7D or a 5D for purchase either today or tomorrow. I understand the full sensor difference...currently own an older 5d and 2, 20D's . I will be using this new camera for HD video primarily along with our EX1's. The main concerns are overheating differenc e of each and image quality difference in HD. The 7D makes nice use of the 17-55 IS lens but just how good is the stabilzer in video mode? The 24-70 L would be the choice for the 5D but has no IS.
Any advice from hands on experience will be greatly appreciated because I am down in Key West, FL.
thanks!
Craig

Buy the 7D, you already know the answer, that is why you posted your question in this forum.

I just bought the 7D with the 17-55 lens to use along with my EX-1. I've had it about a week and a half now. So far, my reaction to the video test shots with the 7D is WOW! I'm very happy with it.

Its hard to beat the image quality of the 5D, and usability is much improved with the new firmware. However, only you can decide if the added expense of the body and lenses are worth it.

It also depends on the type of production you do, most of my work is run-n-gun, rarely do I have the opportunity to use a tripod. With IS lenses and a good monopod most people can't tell that I'm not using a tripod. So for me IS is important.

Regarding overheating, I'm in California, gets warm but the humidity is quite low. I have had the overheating icon appear a couple of times, usually near the end of the day after the camera has been in direct sunlight for hours. I ignored it and kept shooting, no problems. Not sure that's a good way to go but I needed to finish up what I was doing. I'm also still on the older firmware and I understand that the new firmware improves this problem on the 7D.

With the temperature and humidity in Florida your right to be concerned about overheating. The 5D is an awesome, albeit and expensive alternative when you add the additional cost of lenses. I shoot with the 17-50 f2.8 and rarely without IS.

Of coarse the other alternative would be the T2i, I have not heard that it has the same overheating issue as the 7D but from what I understand is nowhere near as rugged or robust, depending on the type of production you do it might be the right answer.

The little bit that I have shot in Orlando I found shooting in such high heat and humidity to be very challenging. I love the 7D but I'm not sure how well it would perform there.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide and how well it works.

I have a 7D and have never had the heating light come on. It doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I've shot outside on hot days, in the sun. Not in Florida. I think if you were maybe shooting outdoor events in hot sun, where you were running continuously (or as close to continuously as you can with the 4 gig limit), it could possibly be a problem. I have the latest firmware update.

The 7D's chip size is ideal for video, I think. It gives you good control of depth of field but not the overly shallow depth of field that requires you to always have a follow focus assistant. For bright light shooting this would not be a problem, but for low light situations with some types of action it can be. If you looked at those Zacuto tests you can see that the differences in the two cameras is not very much until you start pushing things to the extremes. If you're going to shoot in very low light and high ISOs, then the 5D is clearly better. If I did more still photography I think I'd prefer the 5D.

I was about to open the same thread today as I have the same dilemma. the projects that I am planning to use the 7D or the 5D are wedding videos and maybe some music videoclips. budget is not a problem here. .... which one is better for wedding videography?

Choose the 7D for f/2.8 zooms and long focal lengths. Choose the 5D2 for fast primes, wide shots and low light shooting. The 5D2 is also better for portraits where you really want to blur the background. And because the 5D2 has a bit less noise, you can stop it down a bit more than the 7D when you don't want to fight the focus.

So, for weddings, it depends. Zooms are handy, but in some situations you might not have much light. Then again wides aren't that important at weddings. So... probably the 7D with a mid and a long zoom, as well as a couple of primes for dark situations and portraiture.

I was about to open the same thread today as I have the same dilemma. the projects that I am planning to use the 7D or the 5D are wedding videos and maybe some music videoclips. budget is not a problem here. .... which one is better for wedding videography?

I have the 7D and love it. If I knew what I know now and the new firmware was available when I purchased my 7D I'd go with the 5D. But for a DSLR I don't think you can wrong with either.

I bought a 7d and won a 550d and honestly, i reach for the 550d first. I just like the ergonomics a bit better. I guess I have tiny hands.

I loooooove my 17-55, so there would be some tears and cold-dead-finger-prying if i tried switching to a 5d completely.

I keep the 17-55 2.8 IS on the 550d, the 70-200 2.8 IS on the 7d. If i bought a 5d i'd have to figure out what other lens i wanted to use on it. Probably my friend's 85mm 1.2. Man thats a sexy lens at ff.

I am also interested on the 5D or 7D. My question with regards to the over heating.
If you have a 1 Hr. ceremony will any of the cameras will have the over heating problem?

I am considering the camera for churches with low light as a 2nd camera since I already have the Sony EX3 as the main camera.

Thank you!

There truly is no wrong purchase in the Canon HDSLR line up. I own a 7D and I want both a 550d & the 5D. The 5D edges out both of it's baby brothers in low light and (IMHO) has a more film look to it but by no means do I feel incapable of getting great images with the 7D.

As for overheating, I shoot in direct sunlight at auto shows and other events in Southern CA and I can go through two batteries and fill a 32GB card and not experience the temp warning light. I have yet to upgrade to the latest firmware. It's been a non-issue for me.

I have 7D and T2i. If you aren't shooting continuous footage, you shouldn't have problems with overheating. If you leave it on and take long shots back to back, you'll likely see the overheating.

We've had 7D's for about 4 or 5 months now, and we're starting to consider selling them and picking up 5D's specifically because of the overheating issue.

We've now had the cameras overheat at every single wedding, and this included a wedding where it snowed on the wedding day (ridiculous). At last weekend's wedding the temperature only reached 82, yet we had overheating issues inside and outside all day long. Given the nature of what we film (weddings), it's starting to look like the 7D is not a good choice if it's going to hinder us from doing our job.

That said, we have the 17-55mm and it's a great lens; IS works great.

Travis have you got the latest firmware on the 7d?

Since I put it on I've not had overheat icon once, before it would pop up every 45 mins or so

I purchased the 7D right when they came out in October of 2009. Used and use it all the time. The overheating thing was kind of annoying, but is less annoying with the recent firmware. I think I only had the 7D stop once because of overheating, so while the indicator came on all the time it didn't seem to result in anything bad...

Except maybe that caused the sensor went bad and I had to send it back for repair for a red dot on it that appeared after being on a while wouldn't go away. They replaced the sensor under warranty, within a week I had it back. Seems fine now.

Anyway, I have the 17-55 Canon EF-S. Love the stabilization, don't shoot without it. Very smooth. I also have a bunch of all kinds of lenses for it, some just EF-S, some EF, some L.

In February I got the 5D Mk II, they were having a bundling special with a nice Canon printer. Figured I could sell the printer or return it if I didn't like it. With the newest firmware, I think it is actually a bit better for video than the 7D now. It's a bit lighter and smaller, and it seems to do better in lower light. The images are very nice, I think just a bit better than the 7D. If I'm outside and I know there will be enough light where I need to put my Fader ND on, I'll use the 7D. If I'm in the dark, and want velvety images, I'll choose the 5D. I take them both around.

I also got the 1D Mk IV, nice, huge camera, slightly better in low light than the 5D. Images almost as good as the 5D, but I returned it because I didn't think it was worth 3x the 7D or 2x the 5D and it was a bit big and heavy, making it more of a production. Most EF-S lenses didn't work on it so there wasn't a savings there, for example I couldn't use my favorite 17-55mm EF-S on it.

Advice: If you need low light and less versatile zooms, get the 5D. If you need reach, don't need lower light performance and better deals on zooms, get the 7D. Or get them both and use them at the same time for different situations. If you want a very expensive camera you can use a weapon, get the 1D Mk IV.

Travis have you got the latest firmware on the 7d?

Since I put it on I've not had overheat icon once, before it would pop up every 45 mins or so

I just updated them today with the latest firmware. I was holding out to make sure the firmware didn't have any glitches or bugs. Plus I was under the impression that the update merely raised the level at which the warning came up, but today I read that it also raises the level at which the camera will shut down.

I've never had a heating problem with the 7D, even when using it with the original firmware. I haven't done any shooting in direct 100 degree sun...more like low 90s. I almost always turn it off between setups.

Although I really, really like the 7D and I think it's better overall for video than the 5DMKII, I am getting a 5DMKII which arrives tomorrow. For one reason only: lenses. When I got the 7D I wasn't totally committed to the HDSLR; it was going to be just a backup camera. However, I've shot around 15 or 16 training, motivational, sales, and documentary videos with it since October while the XH A1 sits on a shelf. Now that I'm in it for good, I need better lenses. I'm selling my 7D with 3 lenses for enough money so it's actually less money for me to buy a 5DMKII with the lenses I want than equip the 7D with all the high quality lenses it would need.

This only works because of 2 reasons--I need wider angles and I have some excellent Nikkor primes. They just aren't wide enough for my needs with the 7D. The only 2 lenses I'm getting with the 5D are the Zeiss ZE 50 1.4 and the Canon 70-200 f4 L. All of my shooting will be with primes except for when I do the documentary-style interviews where I need to change focal lengths between questions. I shot all last week with the Nikkor primes, except for when I needed wider shots and used a Tokina 16-50 on the 7D. The difference between the primes and a zoom really shows up. Same for the 17-55, which is a nice lens, but primes just look better...not just in sharpness but in color and contrast as well.

The really nice 14mm L lens, which is slightly wider than 24mm on the 7D, costs almost as much as a 5DMKII. I really wanted a good quality wide angle prime since I use wide angles a lot. The fact that I have all the Nikkor lenses I need is what makes this move do-able for me.

In looking at a 5DMKII side by side with the 7D, it's interesting how the 7D feels better. It's a little more compact and feels more solid. I think it is just slightly heavier. It's also more ergonomic, and the 5D is lacking in some of the niceties in that department. Like the on/off switch up on top of the 7D. The 5D has it in a difficult to get to location and it's hard to turn on with one finger. The toggle between camera and video mode with the video record button isn't on the 5D.

The big disadvantage, to me, of the 5D is that the depth of field is so shallow. The 7D's chip is almost the same size as Academy 4-perf film, and you have those same DOF characteristics. It's easier to get a longer DOF when you need it. With the 5D I'll have to go up in ISO in some cases, no doubt. I know it's heresy around some people, but there are times where I need a deeper DOF because I don't always have an assistant to follow focus for me. I can ride focus myself to a degree but it's not as reliable.

I'm not knocking the 5D here--hell, I'm getting one and it'll be here tomorrow. I'm just pointing out what I see as disadvantages and advantages. As far as image quality, the 5D has a bit of an edge, but it really doesn't show up until you start pushing the limits (a la the Zacuto tests). I wouldn't have considered the 5D if I weren't such a lenswhore and really want to use high quality primes.

Another 5D advantage for me is that I can get a Juicedlink and shoot single system sound again, now that it has manual control over audio. I never thought about that until this morning. I don't plan on doing that, but I can see some upcoming shoots with lots of short interviews I'll be shooting without a soundman, and that will save me some time. It's not the editing or syncing time that's a drag when shooting double system, it's the organizing...keeping track of which audio clips go with which video clips. If I don't slate the stuff, I can easily get lost in editing.

To wrap up this long rambling post, I can say that the 7D has been bullet-proof for me and overall I think it is a better design than the 5DMKII and for most uses more suitable for video production. The 5DMKII has the edge if you want to use certain lenses. Compare the 17-55 to, say, the f1.4 35mm L lens or the Zeiss ZE 35mm and you can see why I'm doing what I'm doing. When I first got into HDSLR video, I commented to several people that it's all about lenses again. The more I got into it, the more true that became for me.

Bill,

You've come to the exact same conclusions as I have: the 5D2 gives more options for a full set of primes and for one-man productions, recording into the camera is simpler. The picture quality might be slightly better, but the difference is slight. Based on posts from around the world, the 5D2 is less prone to overheating. Other than that, the 7D is a heck of a cinema camera...

* Lower price
* HD over HDMI (the main feature that I wish were in the 5D2)
* Ergonomics (video switch, smaller size, possibly more weather proof)
* Same DOF as Super 35.

BTW, Tramm recently sent out a one year anniversary e-mail on the Magic Lantern mailing list. He's been busy with other projects and he's considering an ML-lite release for the latest Canon 2.0.7 firmware on the 5D2. The idea is that you put it on your card, it self boots, it puts the camera into a clean audio mode with live meters and monitoring and that's it. Aside from pre-loading it on the card, it would be completely transparent. In my tests, the audio quality with ML is clearly superior to that with Canon's manual audio control. Live monitoring with meters and headphones at the recorder is the way to go.

For solo shooting, I much prefer going into the camera. I recorded over 70 people saying their names recently using a Tascam DR-100. I messed up three recordings: on one I zigged when I should have zagged and got the recorder and camera recording modes out of sync. On the two others, the battery went low and recording stopped. In both cases, I was framing and working with the talent, so I couldn't focus on the recorder until the take was done. By contrast, when solo recording into the camera, I've never missed an audio take.

Enjoy your 5D2 and the new lenses!

Interesting that the ML audio is cleaner. I'll have to try that. But, don't you need a Juicedlink or Beachtek in order to monitor?

Only problem I've had with the Zoom H4N is that it takes two button pushes to actually record. First push puts it into get ready mode, press again to begin recording. That's jumped up and bit me a couple of times, fortunately I caught it in time. What I've tried to do is develop the habit of starting the recorder first, then the camera (just as you do in film), and then when I stop, I stop the camera, hit the stop button on the recorder, and then hit the record button once so it's ready to go. Then for the next take when I hit record it actually records. But getting in a hurry, it's difficult to always be on top of that. In an ideal world I'd always have a soundman, but my world is more often not ideal.

So, even though single system sound didn't figure into my decision at all (in fact, I forgot about it till after I ordered) I'll be glad to get it. I also ordered the new Hoodman Cine Kit Pro which has the 3X magnifier on the eyepiece. My old IDCphotography.com Hoodman mod would have to be re-modified to fit the 5D. The new Hoodman with the Hoodcrane is 3-way adjustable to work on any HDSLR. $209. Hoodman has them in stock but B&H is still on order. I had got the 3X magnifier for my old one, and it's very nice--enough to help with focus but not too much.

With ML, you can monitor from the camera. You will need the right wiring for the TRRS 1/8" plug. The simplest way is to use the AV cable that comes with the camera and hook up a string of Radio Shack connectors to connect the TRS headphone plug to the RCA plugs. Depending on the sensitivity of your headphones (and ears), you might want a Boostaroo headphone amp.

Here's some info on custom 5D to headphone cables...
juicedLink: Cables: 1) Canon 5D MarkII, 2) Pana Lumix GH1 (http://juicedlink.blogspot.com/2009/10/cables-for-1-canon-5d-markii-2-pana.html)

With ML and a juicedLink DT454, the noise is down near the 16-bit limit. Some people use a 25dB pad from the H4n headphone output to drive the camera mic input. That should work, but I don't know that it would be as clean. Headphone amps are often at the bottom of the food chain.

I'll check that out. Camera arrives tomorrow.

On another note, I seem to recall it was you, though maybe not, who posted a warning about the Nikkor 2.8 24mm lens with the extra long flange segment that sticks out so far it might hit the 5D/7D mirror. If it was you, I'm glad you mentioned it because I might not have noticed before attaching the lens. As it is, I did some measuring and found that if the flange did not impact the mirror, it would be way too close for comfort.

So, I've been cursing that flange for some months now. Then suddenly an overly obvious thought occurred to me: My older daughter is a jeweler. Jewelers have tools that grind and cut very hard objects that cost a lot more than my lens. I bet she could perform a flance circumcision easily on that lens.

She did it today, and the lens is now perfect. She ground it off perfectly smooth, perfectly even with the base flange. Covered everything with masking tape so there are no metal particles on the rear element. The only way you can tell the flange extension was there is because you see a shiny aluminum edge. She said to get some black nail polish (like female vampires and some teenage girls with blue hair hanging out at malls wear) and cover the shiny part in case there's the possibility of reflection.

So, if anybody else has that lens and wants it for your wide angle on a Canon--find yourself a jeweler.

Yeah, that was me. Before I had bought my lenses, I borrowed a Nikon AF 24/2.8, an 85/1.8, and a 100/2.8 Macro. Like you, I found that the 24/2.8 was a close shave.

Having shot for the last five weeks with both cameras, including a week shooting royalty in the African Bush, my real-world advice is, get the 7D.

For me the solution to "7D or 5D" was to go the path less travelled; I got the 1D.

All of the advantages of the dual processor of the 7D; a sensor that fits between the other two in size and (for me), way superior low light capability. What is interesting to me is that a $5000 camera is now considered super-expensive, when just a few years ago that is what some 1/3" cameras cost (especially if you factored in a 35mm lens adaptor). It's all about relative costs--the 5D and especially the 7D are so inexpensive for what they do that they make the 1D look pricey. As far as weight, I never use it in a barebones still camera configuration, so it's still light as far as I'm concerned.

So yes, I'm very happy with it and I like that it is a "barely discovered" gem, which has scored me a few gigs due to its exotic nature! (not really--more like I've pitched it on its ability to shoot in amazingly low light).

I think many of us see the 7D/5D as a stop gap until dedicated large sensor cameras are released. Certainly, I'll go the 1D route if I get a similar series of gigs like I just have. Indeed, having seen what a young Getty photographer was capturing at ISO 4000 it's a no-brainer...

The nice thing about the Canons is that, assuming you get all "full frame" lenses, you can take them with you if you go from one camera to the other. I've heard that with the 1DMKIV you can shoot in a dust storm and then in the rain and be OK. It's built like a tank and water/weather resistant. I didn't want to spend that much money now. My main issue is the ability to use my older lenses and get wide angles out of the wide angles. What is the crop factor of the APS-H? .3? I know it's a really ideal size chip. I think it's the same resolution as the 7D, isn't it? But spread out in a bigger chip for incredible low light possibilities. Who needs lights--hell, get the candles!

My opinion: Overall, the 5D with the newest firmware, has just a couple of features missing from the 7D I really like: Histogram when in 'video' mode (not recording, but prior to recording), and built-in manual audio level. The ergonomics of the 'live video' 'video on' button on the 7D are not that big of a deal for me. The big 'set' button to turn on video on the 5D is actually as convenient as the video button on the 7D. The 1D MkIV has an even weirder way to start video, a tiny EfL switch next to the shutter switch. Got used to it after a while but I thought it was a pain. If the live out on the 5D was HD, it would win hands down, I think. The LCD on the 7D, for me is just a bit more accurate, contrast-wise, than the 5D.

I started with the 7D, but as I've gotten more used to the 5D, I like it a lot too, and I miss things more when I go use the 7D from the 5D than vice versa. Today I was shooting outside with a 7D and a 24-105mm F/4 L, which was more than enough shallow DOF. Still, a couple times I really wished I had the live histogram to make sure I was getting good exposure, even through the Z-Finder Pro, it's sometimes hard to tell.

I really liked the 1D Mk IV, but couldn't justify keeping it or having 3 DSLRs. Plus I just got the 'el cheapo' Panasonic GH1 - with hacked firmware and higher bitrate it's the 'sleeper' in the crowd of DSLRs. If the Canons had anywhere near as good swivel LCDs or viewfinder resolution as the Panasonic GH1, there'd be no need for a whole cottage industry built around trying to be able to focus with these Canon DSLRS.

I also think that very soon we're going to have something from Panasonic or Nikon that will hope to be a Canon DSLR killer, and it will probably be in the sub $5,000 range.

The 7D and 5D both got a boost recently when RED announced yet another delay to the Scarlett release - in fact it is llkely a Spring 2011 release now.
I know a number of future Scarlett owners no longer sitting on the fence and buying Canons. I can see this market really heating up by the end of year and I would not be surprised if Sony enter the DSLR size market. The first one to produce raw or uncompressed will be the leader.

Spring 2011 for Scarlet? You may be right, but I doubt it.

Apart from already announced cameras from Sony and Panasonic, Canon are announcing a new vDSLR in July - one that's been tuned for video. How tuned is another matter...

The more I shoot with the 5D2, the less I care about add on features and form factor. By treating it like a film cam, about all I really care about is light in, images out.

So, for me, my next camera upgrade will need to really win on the image side of things. Less aliasing, less jello, higher bit depth (raw or not), and faster frame rates will be the things I will look for. Bells and whistles and a video-shaped body? Not so much...

I am with you on this Jon. I am shooting both 5D and now the T2i, and I am tickled what I can get out of them. I shoot within their limitations- limitations that stretch past low light capabilities of most other cameras, and I am contantly amazed about the moving images we get out of the cameras. The complaint I hear are something like, "Well I got this camera now, and it does mostly what I can do with a real 35mm cinema camera, but I guess that not what I want... I want it to be more like the video cameras I am used to......." Seems like every one wants autofocus and video camera like zoom capabilities, and zone this and that on and on. Don't get me wrong, these features are nice, but we don't need them to make great moving images.....

Spring 2011 for Scarlet? You may be right, but I doubt it.

Apart from already announced cameras from Sony and Panasonic, Canon are announcing a new vDSLR in July - one that's been tuned for video. How tuned is another matter...

where did you hear about this could you provide me with the link?