Has anyone used this head yet?

At $400 it is pretty affordable, it looks interesting, but I'd like to see if anyone has picked one up yet & started shooting with it.

Looks pretty good but those of us with existing systems like HDV701, 503, 501 may have problems since the new mount is wider it seems. If they still are compatible it would be great otherwise all tripods need to be upgraded which would be costly.

It's not out yet, but the plate should be interchangeable with the other heads. I think the plate for the 504 is just longer.

Andy

The 504 packages arrived this week and yes, the plate is longer but fits the 501 and 503HDV heads....

Jim Martin
FilmTools.com

woah that is good news. Thks Jim.

Jim, do the 501/503 plates work on the 504?

What are your thoughts on the head? I have a well used 503 & I've been wanting to upgrade, thinking Sachtler but can't justify the cost since my 503 is still serving me well. But the 504 seems like it could be an affordable step up.

Howdy...

I just received my 504HD. I was thinking of getting the new Compass from Miller, but I have a lot of plates already for the Manfrotto system, so the expense would have been great. I was actually considering buying a Manfrotto receiver and attaching it to the Compass quick release just so I could still use all my 501/503 quick release plates.

Anyways, I can report that the 501/504 QR plates do indeed work with the 504, although it'd clearly designed for the longer plate. I can't understand why the 501 QR plates are $20, and the longer version is $70! Seems like a rip off to me. Can anyone explain this?

I haven't used the 504 yet, but my first impression is that it feels very solid, and light. Much lighter than the Compass. More compact too. I like the new dials and controls. I'll be shooting with it next week, so I'll have a better impression then...


Best,

Ben

Howdy...

I just spend my first week shooting with the Manfrotto 504HD and 535 Carbon Fibre Legs... Thought I'd post my impressions...

First... weight. The system is about 3 or 4 lbs lighter than my previous setup, and traveling across the country, I really notice it. Not sure if it would matter that much if I was just using it around town, but if you travel, even the small savings of switching to CF is very noticable...

Ergonomics: Wonderful! Coming from the 503hdv head, everything is familiar, but seems refined. I wouldn't call it revolutionary difference, but definitely a step up from the 503. The nicest thing is the drag adjustment, which is a lot more precise than the 503. I really liked mike 503 head, so I'm hoping for a similar relationship with this head...

The 535 sticks are nice, but I miss my Road Runner's instant up and down with no leg locks... WHY did Manfrotto nix the Road Runner series? For a run-and-gun shooter like me, there was NOTHING faster! Still, these are fairly quick to setup, and the only thing I would like to see would be marks on the legs to make setting up to equal length easier. I plan to add this via sharpie myself. :-)

The head feels solid, and works well. One gripe is about the Quick Release plate. The 504hd comes with, and is obviously designed for the 501LONG plate, which is just like the 501 plate, but a little bit longer. It's nice to have this extra travel, but the standard 501 plates will work just fine. This would have been a deal breaker for me, because EVERY camera I have, plus a few other items of gear already has its own 501 plate. It would have been expensive to replace them all, so I'm happy for the backwards compatibility...

What I don't understand is why the 501 plates are $19.95, but the 501LONG is, like $70!!!! It's the same think, but an inch longer. Maybe it should be $25, or even $30, but $70? Wow!

So, I won't be buying any long plates any time soon, but am happily using the one it came with on my main EX-1...

That's about it for now. Very happy with my purchase, and happy to have a nice, if incremental, upgrade...

BTW: My other option was going with a Miller Compass, but after seeing it in action a few weeks ago, I didn't think the extra money/weight/unfamiliarity/expensive QR plates justified the purchase. Hopefully I'll be happy with this choice in the long run...

Best to all...

-Ben

Thanks Ben! Really helpful review.

Is it possible to put the new head on your Road Runner legs? Sounds like it might make something easier.

I was just looking at the 535 legs last week & thought they looked pretty sturdy for being so light weight, and really glad with how high they go.

I'm amazed at how many tripod legs don't go up past 60" (5'), even with a head on the sticks, the camera isn't at my eye level. So anyone that I try to interview that is taller than me, I'm looking up their nose. Since the 535 goes up to 67" I feel it has the reach that a professional tripod needs.


Any thoughts on the whole "Bridge" thing. Seem odd at all? Or do you not notice it?

Yep, They work fine on the road runner legs. Still wish I knew why MF discontinued them...

The whole bridge thing is just marketing fluff. Still, i had my 2nd shoot today with the 504hd, and i still really like it..

Ben

Actually, 535K is rather steep. The Amazon bundles this with the 504HD head for $990.

Does anybody know if the head will work with 055XPROB legs? This is on the cheaper range and able to hold a reasonable amount of weight - 15.4 lbs.

For reference, using it mainly for events, weddings and possibly corporate videos using Canon 7D.

The 535 & 536 carbon legs are really great....light, strong, and very sturdy, especially when extended all the way. Also, when collapsed, and the legs spread to their max, it doubles as a Hi Hat. Spend the money, it's worth it.....and the 504 doesn't belong on the 55x legs.

Jim Martin
FilmTools.com

Thanks for the tips, Jim.

I might have to make a trip one day to a local photo store to personally check out 535 legs, if available.

By the way, care to elaborate on why 055XPROB isn't suitable for 504HD head? Is it because of actual compatibility issue or merely your opinion?

Ditto.

Is the 504 a bad head, bad combo, or ... ?

The 055x is really a tripod for stills.....it was listed in the older Manfrotto Video brochure combined with the 701 head as a package but in the current catalog it is not. The general rule here in town is spend money on lights and spend money on tripods.....they're going to be with you for a while. As I said in the previous post, you need to plan for the potential of your camera set up. You might not completely load up your camera but, with an H1, planning for over 10lbs is the minimum. As for the 504 head, Manfrotto groups it with the 546BK, 546GBK, 535K, and the 536K in packages with a bag.

Jim Martin
FilmTools.com

OK, so I was a little confused Jim. When you said the 55X didn't go with the 504, I thought you were meaning "55X" as an abbreviation for "535 or 536." (Must of been tired)

But I agree, looking a the Manfrotto 055XPROB doesn't look like a tripod meant for video. I think the biggest difference between still & video tripods is that for stills you need to level the camera before you take a shot, while with video you need to level the tripod head before you take the shot.

Any tripod with a bowl (75mm, 100mm... ...) can level the tripod head & then you'll have level shots throughout the pan range. A 055X doesn't have that leveling feature built in, so you have to adjust all the legs one at a time to get perfect balance.

Lights, mics & tripods don't change too often (unlike cameras), so a good investment now in this equipment will last you a long time.

Speaking of the bowl, the 504 has the 75mm bowl built in, so no dice there.

Currently I use the 504 with my JVC HM700, and having owned the 503hdv and used it with this camera as well, the difference is INCREDIBLE! it's a tighter head, better counter balance, better control, they really did a number on it. I was really skeptical when I saw it at NAB because of the space in the middle, but I must say, it was a nice surprise to see how well it performed.

Is it a Miller or Sachtler? Absolutely not. But for the price I challenge anyone to find a comparable head.

I have a 503 w/ a flat base & know there is a 75mm (520ball) ball that I can attach to it.

If you purchase the 504HD by itself, is it a flat base w/ a 520ball attachment included, or is it 75mm ball built in?

The 504 has a built-in 75mm base....you can't take it off.

Jim Martin
FilmTools.com

I did not find the 503 to really be smooth enough for HD work, and switched to Sachtler FSB heads with carbon fiber legs (Sachtler and Gitzo) for HD shooting.

How smooth is the 504 HD? Also - any backlash?

"smooth enough for HD work" Huh?

Can you clarify? I don't see how a tripod can be good or bad for HD. Only thing I could think of is that more people have HD sets now-a-days & most HD sets are bigger than the standard SD sets people used to have. And the larger the screen, the more people notice movement.

(IE "Blair Witch" in IMax will make people motion sick, where "Blair Witch" on a iPod Nano will just make people wonder why it is supposed to be scary.)

I guess it is like when someone says a "HD light," I just don't think a light can be "HD." I get a HD light kit, because you can see more in HD & thus there is more to light. But saying an individual light, or tripod head, is HD, I just don't get.

"smooth enough for HD work" Huh?

Can you clarify? I don't see how a tripod can be good or bad for HD.

But I really have to take issue with those statements, even tho', in your particular case, you may well be perfectly correct.

How so?

Well, it comes down to "pain threshold" basically.

Think back to the last time you went to see a blockbuster, wide screen movie.

Do you remember every shot being stock steady, the pans perfect, no "slow, slow, quick, quick, slow like on a cheap head, the camera not wobbleing all over the place like it's on jello etc etc etc.

That's because they are using camera supports designed for the size and resolution of the camera's and thay have to be DAMN good to pull that off with either 35, 70 mm or IMax.

You won't find a Manfrotto, Libec or Slick anywhere in sight.

OK, fast forward to HD video.

We're now talking about the digital equivalent of something like 35 mm wide screen, not the 4:3 SD of yore.

Sure, you can park that fancy HD camcorder on the cheapest piece of support junk known to man, and this is where your pain threshold comes in.

What do you think the results will look like?

Hit your pain threshold?

Now, your pain threshold may well be considerably higher than mine, in which case good luck to you, just don't expect anyone else to enjoy the jello effect, the slow watlz or all the other horrors that come from using unsuitable supports for the job required.

My first outing with my new Canon XH A1 with my then Manfrotto 520 sticks and 503 head hit my pain threshold inside 30 seconds of running video on a 46 inch HD screen.

They were replaced in very short order with a Vinten rig which made the Manfrotto look like a kids toy by comparison.

I haven't had a moments support pain since.

If you can't see it, fine. Just don't start saying it isn't there, as you're deluding yourself.

If you want to see a REAL HD suport system in action, read my two reviews:

Review: Vinten Vision Blue at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/review-vinten-vision-blue.html)

and

Vinten Vision 3 AS Tripod (1 of 4) at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/vinten-vision-3-as-tripod-1-of-4.html)

Note that that first rig, the Vision Blue, is only marginally more expensive than the systems under discussion in this thread, which, by comparison, are well and truly in the "toy" category, I'm afraid (IMHO, of course).

OMG, I almost left out the Giant Killer of all support reviews, strangely enough, written by me.

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/review-vinten-fibertec-video-tripod-system.html

Must be going senile.

If you can read that and still think "any" camera support can do the job, you just ain't thinking or are partially blind.

CS

Search this forum and see......

Many contend that Manfrotto "fluid" heads are really not up to the task. Sachtler or Vinten (or some others) are what is truly required. I am not stating this to be condecending - I thought my Manfrotto head would be adequate when I moved up to HD.

I was very, very wrong.

I will second (or third) the above post. I have had a terrible time with my XF300 on the 503HDV which worked great for my previous cameras. The XF just shows so much detail and with the longer throw lens, I find myself zoomed in a bunch more on various projects. The slightest bump or stickiness during a pan or tilt shows up like an earthquake.

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Sachtler FSB-6T but as an earlier post mentioned, I have a LOT of 501 plates so the 504 is really interesting if it truly is worthy.

In either case I'm stumped on legs too. Want light, quick to adjust and sturdy which may be 3 things that can't go together. I like the 535 and 536 CF legs but the Sachtler 75 speed lock are cool too!

Thoughts?

Robert-
The FSB 6T head is really good but if can spend the money (around $500 more w/sticks), go for the 8T. Yes, I really like the 535 & 536 legs...light, strong, no speader needed with the leg arresters, and because of that, when you collapse the legs and spread them, its a built-in Hi Hat! For less money, I like the 504/535 package around $990. For more money, I like the FSB 6T/2D or FSB 6T SL MCF ($1500 to $1700), FSB 8T/2D or FSB 8T SL MCF ($2000 to $2200).
Another thing, You do spend a bit more when you buy separates....you have to get the head, sometimes the pan arm, bowl adapter, sticks, spreader, and bag.

Jim Martin
FilmTools.com

Like a lot of folk I upgraded as I went along, I went Manfrotto 701/501/503 on various Man. sticks and if you'd advised me to spend 3G on a rig first time out .. ? Of course over 10yrs CF has come along, so there are upsides.

Miller are made 20mins from me in Artarmon here, so when it came time to buy bigger, they were an obvious name to check out. While I was looking at their DS10 last year, the Compass line appeared. I got the factory tour, the demo and bought the Compass 15 on their CF Solo sticks. I first thought the heads drag controls were too stiff, but they've loosened up.

At the Panasonic AF100 demo, they had rented the same rig which had much more wear, and I was happy how much smoother it was with more use than mine. Phillip Bloom currently uses one too.

At Miller I was able to compare their Solo aluminium versus CF sticks and the CF are not that much lighter than the aluminium, but CF is much stronger and stable with less tendancy to twist. I used to think the click locks were faster than the twist, but Miller showed me that a lot of ppl way overtighten twist locks which is a newbie thing. Now my Solo twist locks are just as fast.

The rig is advertised as water resistant, with medium rain I just wiped it down, but I've made a set of bright red poly leg covers, mainly to stop ppl falling over the rig at airshows, works well and dispels rain water too.

I fitted mine with a Manfrotto LANC PRO 523i but had to get a new diameter arm to fit it to the Compass rosette.

Like they say, buy once cry once and once I stopped crying over the price and got used to it, this Miller is great.
I didn't mean to write a review, but the wife is late back from the shops, more crying over prices. Happy Xmas.

Cheers.

i tried the 504HDV recently at BH photo. I was disappointed. Sachtler and Millar was the more outstanding ones at counter. A Vinten model was not too bad as well but i am going for Sachtler

I messed around with a 504HD yesterday, for the first time. It was certainly larger than I was expecting.

The QR plate lock is positioned so that it couldn't be tightened with the particular camera (new, medium sized Sony, I've fogotten which model) the head's owner was using it with. This was due to the camera's RHS being widish around the middle, and that the 504's locking lever needs to be turned up above the plate plane to tighten (poor design).

Next, the counter ballance settings didn't work with this camera (wish I could remember the model) because setting 2 had bad bounce back when pushed all the way down/forward, meanwhile, setting 1 was too light and the camera dropped forward/back. (Of course, this can happen with any head with non-continiously adjustable counter balance.)

I haven't used enough video heads to really give much of a comparision of the movement & backlash, but I was impressed that the bundled Manfrotto alum clamping tripod (with mid level spreader), resisted pan twist (ie grab the head with one hand and quickly twist as hard as you can) at least as well as my Gitzo GT3541XLS (actually better).

The QR plate lock is positioned so that it couldn't be tightened with the particular camera (new, medium sized Sony, I've fogotten which model) the head's owner was using it with. This was due to the camera's RHS being widish around the middle, and that the 504's locking lever needs to be turned up above the plate plane to tighten (poor design).

One of the nice thoughtfull touches I've found on the 504 is that the tilt, pan and slide plate lock levers have 6 position adjustable lever lobes - simply pull them out against a bit of spring pressure, rotate to desired position and let go.

The slide plate lock lever only requires a 90 degree turn from full lock to off (or vice versa), so can easily be programmed to keep it below head plate level.

The cb system, is, however, something else entirely.


CS