So i'm taping the cake cutting with a fresh tape...
I get home, and 10 seconds are missing from the cake cut...

I loaded a tape yesterday, ran about 20 seconds of bar, and i get about three seconds of dropout..
Just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, i loaded a tape tonight, and got another 2 seconds missing..

It seems to be the first 20 seconds are critical..Is there anyway to test if my heads, or tape transport aren't out of whack, or should i accept the fact that there's a possible bad batch of tapes...

I'm shooting Canon XH A1, with Panasonic 63minute AMQ's.

Not saying you don't have a head issue, or a bad batch of tapes, but there is a VERY good reason for the 1 minute pre-roll on tape that no one seems to follow any more. Print bars and tone at the head of every tape. One minute worth.

Not sure if this would have affected your cake cutting or not.

I do the same thing. I can't figure out why everyone doesn't do this.

Yes....
I've started giving about twenty seconds, but perhaps i should take Perrone's advice...
I'll let you know if anymore tapes are corrupt....

I am recording DVCAM on to Sony's premium Mini DV tapes - 60min tape = 40mins footage.

I'm using a Sony DSR-130, for recording and playback. I have experienced a ridiculous number of dropouts only on one tape, mainly in the audio. It's particularly bad at the end of tapes and in between shots when the camera has been turned off.

The heads probably need cleaning, though I am worried it may be something much more serious. Any Ideas? It may be just the way I am using it but still odd none the less.

10 seconds of tape dropout really does seem a bit abnormal, especially since you are using decent tapes.

Are you able to put some time in to trying to replicate the problem on a different tape? It may seem a lot of unnecessary work, but it's better than running in to the problem again on your next paying job.

Andrew

When I purchased my two Sony V1U's a couple of years ago I first went with Panny DV tapes as they seemed to have the best user reviews on forums at the time. The first dozen or so I used were fine but then I ran into a batch with a few dropouts but nothing like you experienced. It would just be a blip lasting 15 frames or so to maybe one second. I got online and found out that others had been suddenly experiencing problems with Panny DV tapes. Upon further research found out that a whole lot of people were having excellent results with the standard Sony DV tapes that only cost about $2.25 each online. I have been using those the past year or so without any incidence of dropouts that I can think of.

I am glad I read this thread and was reminded it is a good thing to put bars and tones for a minute at the beginning of each tape for a variety of reasons including missing possible bad tape right at the beginning.

I've certainly noticed that if I'm going to get a head clog, it will be at the beginning of a tape - usually the cheap DV tapes (I only use Sony). One of the reasons why I have moved up a notch to only use Sony blues or better.

There's something magical about the first 30 seconds of a tape. On the other hand, there's something comparatively cool about being able to drop a tape and not lose any of your data. :-)

Andrew

Andrew, what do you mean by "Sony blues"? The Sony DV tapes I use come in a blue wrapper. Is that what you mean? If so I didn't know Sony made any less expensive / lower priced ones than these.

Rather than rattle off some product code, I'll just post the following images:

Andrew

You really should take it for granted that the first minute of a tape is a no go area as far as reliability is concerned. The old convention of 1 minute of bars is for good reason. Still once it has happened to you the future looks bright.

I know this might come off sounding insensitive, but it's from the heart.

As soon as you can afford it, switch to tapeless media.

Since I started shooting on solid state media (Sony SxS) at the beginning of 2008, I haven't experienced a single glitch. Prior to that I was shooting on P2. Same thing.

It's brought peace of mind, if nothing else. My only concerns now are the usual: Is it in frame and in focus? Did I start the camera in time? Are the audio levels OK?

This may seem obvious, but did you try cleaning your heads? I would consider sending the camera in to a repair center for insepction.

Not saying you don't have a head issue, or a bad batch of tapes, but there is a VERY good reason for the 1 minute pre-roll on tape that no one seems to follow any more. Print bars and tone at the head of every tape. One minute worth.

Not sure if this would have affected your cake cutting or not.

Nailed! The other reason left may be a defective tape or camera.

Beginning and end of tapes usually receive a lot of damage from FF and RWD (listen to the accelerating sound of some VTRs when approaching those points).
Many years ago we used to FF-RWD the whole tape if it was new and had been in storage for a long time. I recall some Maxwell Betacam that if you didn't do that got an ugly bunch of intermittent small drop-outs throughout the recording.

Follow the advice of going tapeless.

Alrighty....

Another cake cut and same issue....
This time with another camera...

I'm going to dig a bit deeper...Perhaps call up Panasonic directly?

Maybe the problem is also with your playback deck. Is it the same machine as your camera recorder? Are you playing the tape from the different camera on the first machine you had the problem with. Tension problems and worn parts can give you data errors which look like drop out but are actually not lack of information on the tape which is what dropout was in analog systems. Yes it could also be the tape but more often it is the machines gradually going out of spec, dirt , wear and tear if cleaning does not help.

Long story short, i used another camera to playback my lost footage.
And yes, all the data started transferring....
I even went back to some previous tapes, and restored the lost frames.

Therefore, my camera has issues with playback. Usually in the first minute ..You would think that the recording would be affected also, but it's not the case so far.
Unfortunately, the Canon depot in Toronto has a turnaround of about 15-20 days...

But thanks to all....
It's definately my tape transport. It's as if the heads are slipping on the same spots all the time??

Glad to hear you have success even if it means your playback deck needs repair. It is always tricky to trouble shoot partially working systems.

I've used Panasonic tapes for many years and have had about 2 small drop outs in all that time. Lately, I don't see the tapes anymore because I have a Z5 with MRC-1 and I only use the tape for archive.

My opinion...repeat MY opinion...first, clean the heads, then switch to Sony tape and never go back to Panasonic tape! (also the 1 minute roll, etc mentioned above...)

What I was told (and it makes sense) is that tape is manufactured in 2m wide sheets on a continuous band. It is then sliced into strips. The centre of the sheet has the smoothest and most even coating and this is used for the HD, pro and high performance (and more expensive) tapes. As you move out to the edge the quality drops such that the outside few inches are sold off to the no-name firms. So, the people who claim that some no-name brands are "the same" as the expensive tapes are right but it doesn't have the same quality of coating.

These "strips" are incredibly long and are on rolls, used in a machine whereby the end of the tape is glued onto the casette spool (just the spool, the housing comes later) and the spool pulls the required amount off the large roll of tape. This means that the first few inches/feet are stretched as they pull the tape off the roll, until the roll gets up to speed and the strain lessens. At the required length the motor cuts out and the roll is braked, again causing strain on the tape.
This is why drop-out tends to occur at the beginning and end of a tape.

I hope this makes sense, it's bloody difficult to describe in writing!

Some of the HDV tapes (ie the Sony ones) are a genuinely new and improved formulation for the recording layer.

Andrew

Ran into this with Panasonic PQ tapes and was told that neither Sony nor Panasonic recommend using 83 minute tapes. When I told them that I ran into this problem with 63 minute tapes as well they told me that I could exchange the 4 boxes I had if I sent them an e-mail to the attention of the person I spoke to at Panasonic professional. Three e-mails later I got no response.

Solved the problem by always recording in LP instead of SP.

John

Ummm ... should it be "always recording in SP (short play) instead of LP (long play)" by any chance? :-)

Andrew

No,

If they are both saying that the tape transports on most miniDV cameras (like my Sony VX2000) aren't designed to handle the physically longer (83 minute) tapes, then if you need to record more than 63 minutes and you cannot change tapes, record in LP.

John

Not that I have looked, but I haven't found any professional cameras that support recording in LP mode. Instead we buy this really expensive tape deck that uses the larger media ... for up to 276 min.

Andrew

VX2000, VX2100, PD150, etc all shoot in LP.

I also have a deck as you describe. It is a Sony WV-DR9. Handles miniDV and Large DV tapes.

John