Anybody have any suggestions on what can be used to smoke/fog a set? The spray cans aren't available here. And I'm too cheap to buy a machine...even the cheap ones are too much.

I know that there must be some "trick 'o the trade" that was dreamed up pre-fog machines to create smoke that doesn't choke the cast and crew and smell up the joint and that lingers well.

If I don't get a better suggestion, I plan on using the mildest incense sticks I can find.

Get some dry ice and drop it in water. Or, for longer lasting smoke, get someone to sprinkle water over the dry ice. Don't forget a fan, or someone waving a piece of cardboard to act as a fan.

Doesn't dry ice fog cling to the floor, though? I need the fine smoke that fills the room and lingers.

It goes up in the air, then it sinks. That's why I suggested a fan. I used to play with dry ice all the time when I was a kid.

Yeah...I think that wouldn't work too well for what I have in mind. I'm going for the ILM-style rays of light piercing the darkness. Only way that looks really good is if you smoke the set with a nice soft haze.

The dry ice smoke would be inconsistent and constantly swirling and with a tendency to drop quickly.

I'm afraid incense is going to choke everyone in the room, but it might be the most viable substitute for the real thing.

Can you rent a smoker from a theatrical supply place?

I don't know what the deal is in japan but over here you can even rent them from party stores, smal units that use a type of fogging oil that works really well.

Good luck

When are you going to post your movie?????

: )

I didn't think you wanted to use real smoke. But if you do, go to a Chinese medicine/herbal shop. Then ask them for those thick, 1/2" sticks which smolder---the ones used to heat parts of your body for healing. They're real cheap, and smoke like a son of a b---. (And the smoke rises and spreads.)

Rosco makes a fogger that many places rent. On a possibly cheaper note, buy all your friends some cheap cigars (or if they're good friends, good cigars) and invite them to your set. Light up and start the camera rolling. It wouldn't be my first choice but it will get the job done.

Jeff

Music stores like Guitar Center tend to have a section with DJ equipment including specialty lights and cheap fog machines. I think they run ~$70 apiece and you could pick up a few of them to provide adequate coverage.

Dry ice will never work; the condensed vapor is too ephemeral.

Thanks for all the input. It's amazing what ISN'T readily available here. It's hard to find even DV equipment and supplies. Haven't yet found a theatrical supply.

Plus, I'd imagine daily rental would probably cost as much as buying one in the States.

I think I'll give Frank's advice a go first...just to see if I can pull it off for a few bucks.

Marc, film is coming soon. Thanks for the interest. I'll let you know.

Heya all

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AF1200&CATID=&keywords=smoke&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=xxxxxxxxxx&Keyword2=xxxxxxxxxx&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=

I am really not sure if that can help, but that translate to around $40 USD, which is very cheap i gather.


that is what i have used on productions and works very well. It leaves a very slight stail air kind of smell, but nothing very obtrusive.

I hope that can help.

About shipping o/s it says this

Overseas delivery can be sent by ship or by air. Please email a Jaycar sales person for details.

I hope that can help.

kermie

Where does one buy dry ice from anyway?

I heard whoever it was that did one of the Indiana Jones movies burned beeswax on the set.

For Chirst Sakes Don't you know anything???

You buy it at DRY ICE "R" US

Dopey.

Actually look under cryogenics in the yellow pages.

Marc

: )

when using heavy dry ice be careful as it will drop mositure on the floor and can be slippery...

I thought dry ice was frozen CO2 (what you exhale) and therefore, when it "melted" it would simply release gas into the air, not liquid.

<<<-- Originally posted by Marc Betz : For Chirst Sakes Don't you know anything???

You buy it at DRY ICE "R" US

Dopey.

Actually look under cryogenics in the yellow pages.

Marc

: ) -->>>


:)
Thanks. How much is a going price for it, and what amount would fill what kind of volume? Ballpark idea anyway.

I'll think you'll be disappointed how miniDV renders fog that is fairly even. It looks great on film, but DV has a fraction of the resolving capability of film. I shot some footage up high on a mountain in the cloud layer the amount of noise and banding was terrible. Since then, I've watched for such things in film and even on film, there is a noticeable jump in noise.

Adrian

Whatever you do, don't touch it without wearing gloves---it's damn cold! (Frozen carbon dioxide. Ouch.)

I think its about 10 bucks a pound. It's terrible for making realistic fog or smoke but it is totally inert so you can use it (if you chip it up into small pieces) in drinks or to roll a fog out of a closet or small room during a halloween party etc. It doesn't really fill up an area it just kinda meanders around the floor a bit, but it rolls like fog. The more humid it is, the better it shows up.

It will evaporate (melt) in your freezer so it doesn't have a long shelf life.

Just think, a tray of smokeing shots being handed out to your guests at a party.

Hmmmmmmm

I need a drink

I don't know if this stuff is still around. Back in the '80's on movie sets the SFX guy's used "bee guns". It was a container used by bee keepers to smoke bees. It had a small bellows-type handle that you would pump. It worked great!

<<<-- Originally posted by Marc Betz : It [dry ice, aka frozen CO2] will evaporate (melt) in your freezer so it doesn't have a long shelf life. -->>>

To be perfectly accurate about it, your freezer dry ice neither evaporates (changes phase from liquid to gas) nor melts (changes phase from solid to liquid). It sublimates, that is, it changes phase directly from a solid to a gas.

This message brought to you by your local Association for Precision in Scientific Terminology.

If you buy dry ice, put it in a thermo "picnic basket type container." It should last for a few days at least.

Some fog machines work by vaporizing mineral oil.

Here are instructions for making such a machine:

http://www.iosphere.net/~rheslip/html/body_fog_machine.html

Here is a report on the health effects:

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Stage-Fog-Risk.htm

My advice is don't mess with the heated glycol.

I did not want to confuse anyone w/sublimation. It would not have worked in the original post, but the reply was the perfect place to point it out.

It sublimates best in a drink called a fog cutter : )

africats,

I've seen the bee guns used in some of those "Making of..." shows. I wonder what they put in them...bees and a tiny pack of cigarettes?

It would probably have to be smoke considering how simple they are.

Robert
"To be perfectly accurate about it, your freezer dry ice neither evaporates (changes phase from liquid to gas) nor melts (changes phase from solid to liquid). It sublimates, that is, it changes phase directly from a solid to a gas."

Very true, someone over at the VX2K thread basically told me I was full of it when I said the same thing a few months ago.

I've seen cylinders of Nitrogen in hospitals and on industrial sites. Why couldn't it be put into a smaller container with a nozzle, rather than a valve?

Jeff

Disposable cans would never hold that much pressure. The industrial cylinders of dry nitrogen are at approx 2000 psi. My industry uses dry nitrogen as an inert purge to prevent oxidation and as an agent to pressurize and test for leaks. For safety purposes the cylinders are only used with the appropriate pressure regulators.

The disposable cylinders that we buy for cleaning and blowing are cans of liquified gas (refrigerants). much like a tank of propane or butane the liquid propellant boils off and exits the can as a gas. Tip the can and you get liquid. The liquified gases are non toxic and non flamable. If the cans were just filled with a compressed gas , we'd get about one or two shots per can.

Sorry for the tangent. I shouldn't get my shorts in a knot over something so trivial.

You can get small (45ci-110ci) compressed air/nitro tanks for paintball guns that hold up to 4500psi. They can be regulated down to next to nothing so you can release as much or little gas as you want. I didn't really think nitrogen would create a smokey effect, but I guess?? Anyway, they sell for $100-$400 on average, and are available at a paintball store near you.
If anyone tries this, let us know how it works out

John,

It depends on what genre film they're being used. At the time, 13 - 16 years ago, OW!, I was a professional stuntman, so the bees employed were from my local, and mostly used 2 stroke offroad beecycles (sorry!)

I can't recall what they used, but I remember looking inside one. It seems they used two products: one was a circular disc which seemed to generate most of the smoke and the other was a multi coloured granular product.

If you're interested, I can make some calls and find out.

Guy,

You gotta hate those 2 stroke beecycles! My queen bee ex-girlfriend used to drone on and on about how the bees that rode them were...well..the bee's knees. :)

If you wouldn't mind asking around, I'd really appreciate it. I've always been a "back to the basics" guy. Can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars for an electric-powered smoke blower that burns products that have to be specially ordered and are pretty toxic, when all you have to have is a good old-fashioned bee smoker and whatever gunk they put inside (hopefully not as toxic as the chemical stuff they use now).

Thanks!

The material used in the "bee smokers" is ole banum. It is a pine tar resin. You place charcoal brickets that are already glowing with white ash in the container. Then you put the nuggets (about the size of peas) on top of the charcoal. By pumping the bellows it produces smoke. You can also mix equal parts of granulated sugar and potassium nitrate (salt peter from the drug store). put the mixture on a piece of metal plate and ignight with a butane torch. Burns fast..lots of smoke. Don't contain it. you could dampen it with a mist of water to make it burn slower.

You could also make an "oil cracker". You get a 25 gallon steel drum and put 6" of mineral oil in the bottom. Take copper tubing and drill the smallest holes you can in the tube. make a ring out of the tubing and submerge it in the oil with the holes under the surface and the end of the tubing sticking out of the top of the can. Attach the end to an air compressor set at 120 psi. The air going thru the small holes at high pressure "cracks the oil molecules and turns them into mist or smoke.

Since the smoke(or any smoke machine smoke) is oil based, it will make the floor slippy after awhile.

Hope this helps

David Mesloh
Special Effects Coordinator
GIMIX, Inc.
A Full Service Special Effects and Prop Company

Straight from the horse's mouth! Thanks, David. The mystery is solved.

Now let's see...how do I say ole banum in Japanese...hmmmm