I am buying today an HDMI cable, but yesterday I hooked up my new EX1r to my Bravia 720 HD using the component video cable and I wasn't very pleased...
I had shot some indoor clips with medium to low light: the low light capabilities of the EX1r are fabulous, but the footage looked pretty grainy and lacked the WOW factor I was expecting, so to speak

I am sure this depends but the fact I need to learn how to use the new camcorder, but I certainly wasn't blow away....

I hope this depends at least a bit by the connection?
what is your favourite way to review the clips on an HD tv?
Fed

The EX1/3 cameras ARE noisy. Period.

On both digital (SDI, HDMI), and Component (the latter depending a bit on the cables quality, but usually less noisy due to the cable acting as a filter).

Frankly, I'd say this is their only fault/disadvantage. There are ways to combat the noise with PPs.

If you found it on a 720 monitor, be prepared to see even more noise in FullHD.

ok...not exactly the response i was waiting for....but thanks

what ways do you suggest to reduce noise?

Frederico,

You are a new owner of the camera, so I would suggest searching a lot in this forum and looking at the scene file thread. This camera can produce stunning images but only after the settings are set properly.

To answer your initial question, component is an analogue signal. So by its nature it will be a "version" of the digital image which will have some extra noise and a little loss of detail.

I don't find this camera to be noisy. Especially compared to some Panasonic cameras in this price range.

sure thing Tim
I just copied and pasted almost the entire sticky about PPs : )

it's just that I was a little surprised about the first results on screen... but then again, as you rightly say I just need to learn how to use it

Keep in mind that if you are shooting 1080 and displaying on a 720 raster panel, there is some scaling that will happen to make it fit, and it will likely be a little ugly.

Unfortunately the analog to digital conversion in many panels is also pretty dicey...

HDMI should definitely help, but also sending the same resolution as the panel natively displays makes a difference.

i tried again and I have to say the HDMI makes A LOT of difference on my bravia....no comparison

i also tried all the different settings, and for some reason the one I like best is the 1080X1440 50i

1920 looks nice but there's somethinh about the 1440 setting that makes it better....maybe has to do with the fact that my HDTV is 720

i also tried the 720 settings, and I like them but you start seeing the lower resolution

i also tried a LOT of picture profiles, and I was very happy with Doug's preset, Philip, and one low light i found on vimeo (detail -20, gamma STD4, black gamma -10, low key sat +10)

anyone is using the 1440 setting?

and i can only add that the low light capabilities of the EX1r are AMAZING! it blows everything I had seen before out of the window

the noise is very low especially with the right settings

i notice the noise becomes a problem at 12 but I keep the 3 settings at -3, +3 and +9

Federico,

You have probably noticed the very long thread on Picture Profiles, which is a sticky on this forum. You will need some time going through all the information contained there, but to help you with the noise several rules should be observed:

1. Even though the EX1/3 cameras are indeed great in low light, you should try and use as much light as only possible to avoid necessity of engaging gain (BTW. always keep it in Manual so that you can control it)

2. You will notice that some gamma curves (Std1, Cine1) have a tendency to produce more noisy picture that others - try to avoid them when lots of large, single color areas would fall into low-light area in your scenes

3. When choosing your Detail settings, try not to further exaggerate noise with inappropriate use of Crispening and alike (you might try and find detail-related settings discussion elsewhere on the forum; for instance it has been discussed in some thread on the PMW-350 camera).

There shouldn't be any difference with the 1440 and 1920 modes in terms of noise. I'm not sure why you are seeing a difference because the HDMI and component output will always be 1920x1080 even if the camera is set to 1440.

The 1440 35Mb/s mode does have a slightly lower compression ratio than the 1920 35Mb/s modes, but I would be surprised if you can see the difference in first generation footage.

The 1440 35Mb/s mode does have a slightly lower compression ratio than the 1920 35Mb/s modes, but I would be surprised if you can see the difference in first generation footage.


1440 35Mb/s? On an EX1?

1440 35Mb/s? On an EX1?
We are talking EX1r, see original post.

We are talking EX1r, see original post.

I stand corrected. This is a feature I wasn't even aware of...


Thanks

The EX1R has a 1440 35Mb/s VBR mode that is compatible with the optical disc XDCAM HD and XDCAM HD422 cameras. This allows you to write this file to an optical disc as a video clip (as opposed to a user data file) without any transcoding. If I remember the numbers right the compression ratio for this is about 16:1 compared to the 21:1 of regular XDCAM EX so theoretically there may be some advantage to this mode in multi-generation work, but I haven't tested this. I suspect the re-scaling from 1440 to 1920 will negate any compression ratio advantage.

Is the EX-1 noisy? Compared to what? I think in its class its pretty damn good. Compared to the HVX200 which was its competitor at one time it was light years quieter.

Lenny,

Are you watching your EX1 material on a big enough display?

If so you probably agree that out of the most important PQ parameters, noise in low- and medium-light areas is the weakest one.

This is what I mean in my previous post - noise st NOT the greatest strength, if you judge in relation to other picture parameters (which are great).

HD cameras tend to be noisier than SD cameras and for many coming from SD for the first time it can come as a bit of a surprise. Every pixel on an image sensor will have some noise, so the more pixels you have the more noise you see. In addition the higher the resolution of the viewing device the more noise it is capable of showing. So it's a double edged sword when you move from SD to HD. You increase the resolution but also increase the apparent noise (unless you do extra processing to reduce the noise). I think many people are not prepared for this.

In the 1080 world, the EX cameras are pretty good and probably the best there is in the sub $20k price range.

Piotr,

I haven't really tested this paramater that much. Its never bothered me though and was so much better than an HVX200 I was thrilled. I guess its all a question of what you're comparing to. What cameras have lower noise in this price range?

Sorry to hijack this thread - has anyone noticed a difference between HDMI and SDI quality on a monitor?

Lenny

Lenny,

On paper, the 54dB S/N for the EX1 is very good, and indeed probably best in this price range.

But as Alister put it, "the more pixels you have the more noise you see". This applies to the camera sensors and to the device you're watching the footage on.

I guess it's the price we have to pay for the extraordinary resolution of the EX cameras...

You're right Lenny that our discussion has become a little off-topic in this thread. However, what I have said above is also relevant to the OP's question - I really do see less noise connecting via Component than HDMI. For editing, I used my fullHD, 50" plasma hung over my desktop, so I'm watching from some 1.5m distance - great for monitoring even the subtle changes my edits introduce... But at the same time, with this almost single pixel visibility, I not only see noise but also how it goes down (along with resolution, which becomes more like this in the HD broadcast) when I switch from HDMI to Component.

As I mentioned before, this may have something to do with my cables quality; anyway it only confirms the general information of both myself and Alister in this thread:

- more resolution = more noise.

I guess the only way to keep the resolution without paying too high a price in term of noise is larger sensors - this is why the PMW-350 (the same format camera, only with bigger chips) has less noise both on paper (59dB, if I'm not mistaken), and actual picture perception (this is what Alister who owns both mentioned many times).