I'm hoping to get a mattebox but my limited funds are keeping me away from some of the better ones. Does anybody have any experience with the Genus unit seen here?:

Genus | GCM-77 Matte Box with 77mm Adapter | GWMC-77 | B&H Photo

If this one stinks, what would you suggest?

Personally, I'd be skeptical of clamp-on matte boxes. You really need rail supports or you're just asking for trouble. That's a lot of weight clamped onto the lens when you have filters in it; and if you don't have filters in it, what's the point of having it.

I hate to admit this, but part of the desire to have this thing hanging off the front of the camera is for client appeal as well as sun shading. In my opinion, clients will look at a camera that has a more "professional" appearance differently than they would with the standard EX1. Just my opinion, of course.

Take a look at the Cavision Matt boxes. They are reasonably priced, fairly sturdy and have rod support. I have used and continue to use one that has served my previously owned Ex3, Panasonic HPX 300 and more recently, a Sony PMW 350, naturally, with different rod systems.

Ron, can either of the Cavision filter holders be moved vertically? The reason I ask is because I tried a Cavision a couple of years ago and was surprised to find that neither of the stages could be raised or lowered. Have they improved the design, because if not, that should be a deal killer.

90% of the reason for going with a matte box instead of screw-in filters is so that you can raise and lower grad filters. Other than that function, there isn't really any reason to hassle with a matte box at all. Polarizers, soft filters, etc. all work just as well with screw-in filters for a lot less money and easier use.

I use a 10 year old Chrosziel clamp-on model on my EX1 and EX1R, and it works great. Lightweight and rock solid without any rails. The only drawback is that I have to insert the trays from below because of the camera's microphone. No big deal once you get used to it. I still have plenty of clearance for vertical adjustment and rotataion.

I use a Redrock matte box with Zacuto rails on my F800, but that rig is way too big and heavy to recommend for use with an EX1R or EX3. I know some people use a Redrock with the small camcorders, but I don't know how they manage it. I couldn't stand that bulk.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't have any real advice for which current model to choose, I just suggest that whatever someone buys they should make sure that it has at least one stage that can be rotated; at least one stage that can be moved vertically; and that it isn't so big and heavy that it overwhelms the camera itself. My experience shows that the clamp-on models work fine and won't harm the lens.

Hi Doug:

The rear, rotatable stage of the MB410H can move into the vertical position, the front stage is fixed. Not sure that answers your question, however. I believe that they have designed this model specifically for the Ex series (the Ex1 ad Ex3) and their particular problem regarding the ingress and egress of filters.

Chrosziel CMB-R20, clamp-on, VERY light, two 4x4 180 degree rotating trays, access trays top or bottom, flag, heaps of options.

Hi Doug:

The rear, rotatable stage of the MB410H can move into the vertical position, the front stage is fixed. Not sure that answers your question, however. I believe that they have designed this model specifically for the Ex series (the Ex1 ad Ex3) and their particular problem regarding the ingress and egress of filters.

Ron, okay now it's coming back to me. Thanks for the refresher.

The front stage was fixed, and therefore the matte box was useless to me. I always shoot outdoors with both a polarizer and a .6 ND 1/2 grad. The polarizer needs to rotate and the 1/2 grad needs to rotate and be movable vertically to get the split right where I want it. With the Cavision, only one stage could be adjusted, so therefore, it was pointless for me to buy it. Either I could rotate the polarizer or I could slide the grad, but I could never do both.

If the Chrosziel CMB-R20 that David mentions is anything like my older Chrosziel, I'd give it two thumbs up. That's what I'd buy if I was in the market for a new matte box for the EX1R or EX3.

Dave, once you get the matte box, you'll find it is a great tool with a lot more benefits than just making the camera look pimped out for the client. And I'm someone that used to bring lots of extra c-stands, flags, and other crap I didn't actually need to every shoot for particular client that wanted to think it was a bigger production than it really was. He was happy and I was happy for over 80 videos over a 7 year period. Sometimes you gotta give the client what they expect to see, but the matte box will actually make a difference if you buy the right filters and use it right.

Many thanks Dave and Doug. That Chrosziel R20 looks pretty good. One question: does the French Flag lock into position fairly well? The quality of the hardware is always impossible to judge until you've had this gear in use for a while, 'ya know? ;-)

I own a R20 and my flag stays put like it should. Overall I'm satisfied with the mattebox.

My 2 cents...

I've got 4 different matteboxes I've tried over the years for different needs. 2 of which I've just sold. The Redrock is mostly used on my EX3. A bit heavy but very flexible and easy to use. A Cavision bellows which I used on my old XL2 (also sold) with rails. Ok, but not my favorite. (sold) A Chrosziel 440 (sold) which is a clamp on and very light but to me is too small for the EX3 but was good for the XL2. And finally a Formatt FM-600 which is a very light screw on and takes both 4x4 and 5.65x4 filters. It's a strange filter holder in that they're not removable but pressure fit. But it works fine.

The Formatt is the cheapest and lightest. I haven't had it long so I can't tell about long term use but I'm happy with it on my 5DMk2's. The Redrock is a great value for all it's features but is heavy and I mostly use it for tripod and occasionally shoulder use.

I find that rods are needed if the mattebox is heavy and you're going to load it up with all the flags and filters. Otherwise a light screw-on or clamp-on mattebox works fine. Unfortunately, like cameras, one doesn't fit perfectly all your needs.

Hi,

We have just ordered the Genus. It does com with a rails setup too and in this package 3 filters!....

Genus Ultimate Matte Box Kit (http://genuseurope.com/shop/products/Genus_Ultimate_Matte_Box_Kit_3_Filter-126-3.html)

We originally purchased a Redrock. It was a great looking mattebox but I wouldn't recommend it for the EX1. I could not get it to not vignette and I took all the advice offered on the Redrock forum.

I think the Genus will do the job. If Matt Davis likes it it will do me!

My RR mattebox doesn't vignette, but it's bulky - definitely for tripod work only.

Hi Piotr,

Thanks for the original advice but I had it as far back as it would go and it still vignetted. I also took the inner frame out but still no joy. Needless to say I sold it. I also found that if it was not completely and utterly perfectly aligned iI saw vignetting at the widest shot.

I think it works fine with EX3 or if your using an adaptor.

Darren, were you using the rubber lens hood as an "adapter" for your RR mattebox?

If so, it was probably the hood that was vignetting - not the mb itself.

Hi Piotr,

The one that redrock suggest? Yeah maybe it was but It was all so fiddly. I was also so conscious of the LCD having to be out all the time!

Hi Darren,

Any chance you can post pics of your EX1 and Genus mattebox setup?

Thanks,

Hi Jeff,

Ordered it only a couple of days ago so eagerly waiting it's arrival! The deal is very good with those 3 filters thrown in!

Thanks Darren!

I don't have an EX1R yet, but I'm looking into all the options of kitting it up. (I recently did buy Doug Jensen's tutorial DVDs, and that's a great resource! It's a start at least :)

Would your Genus mattebox fit with a 35mm adaptor? I guess you'll need longer support rods for the additional length that the adaptor and lens gives you.

Best,

Hi Darren,

Would this be the B and H equivalent that you ordered?

Genus | Ultimate Matte Box Kit w/77mm Step Ring | GMKULT-77

Best,

Looks like it Jeff.

See if you can order from Genus direct as you get a grad, an ND 9 and a circular polarizor!

For what I do most times, I have found I do not need a matte box. I keep a screw-on UV filter on my EX3, and I sometimes switch to an ND or circular polarizer as needed. What I have found I need oftentimes is a French flag. So I affixed a cold shoe to the lens hood, to which I can mount this flag...

Universal French Flag (http://www.imagewest.tv/servlet/the-292/Universal-French-Flag%2Cmatte%2C-mattebox%2C/Detail?category=)

I do not have it on the camera when it is not needed. It's clunky, and if I don't tighten it properly, it slips into the shot.

But when I need it, it's sure nice to have it.

0428001353 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39123560@N03/4561479810/)

See if you can order from Genus direct as you get a grad, an ND 9 and a circular polarizor!

And by the way, you can also add a rails system for your favourite DSLR setup too. A lot of my outdoor GVs (where ND Grads and polas become essential, as are sunshades) are shifting over to my 550D.

The only thing they don't supply, which I didn't know existed before I watched the Philip Bloom training DVD, was (and I quote) 'Nun's Knickers', though I haven't experienced a need for such apparel with an EX1.

Just a note from the trenches though - if you use the push-to-fit adaptor with the Genus on your EX1 with the 0.6 wide, you will need to ensure that the matte box is on perfectly straight and won't shift. It's a critical adjustment that's caught me out once (leaping into ditches filming a coach IIRC). Rails will prevent that from happening at the cost of extra bulk.

I have the Genus on my Canon 7D, on rods (Red Rock rods by the way). Quality is good, but the screws for the stages are not as smooth as the ones on my Vocas matteboxes, but that one more then double the price... The holes for the rods are attached with a screw witch you have to tighten once a month.

Hi Jeff,

Ordered it only a couple of days ago so eagerly waiting it's arrival! The deal is very good with those 3 filters thrown in!

Hey Darren, I too would like to see your rig when you get it all assmebled. The Genus is starting to sound like a very good candidate for me. The option of adding the rails later is also a handy way of keeping the initial cost down somewhat.

Thanks to all for your ideas and suggestions.
Dave

The only thing they don't supply, which I didn't know existed before I watched the Philip Bloom training DVD, was (and I quote) 'Nun's Knickers', though I haven't experienced a need for such apparel with an EX1.

What a hoot! They actually advertise it with that description:

Genus Universal Donut Nun's Knickers (http://genuseurope.com/shop/products/Genus_Universal_Donut_Nun_s_Knickers-85-68.html)

dave

Can anybody tell me the difference between this Genus:

Genus | GCM-77 Matte Box with 77mm Adapter | GWMC77K | B&H Photo


and this Genus?:

Genus | GMKBAS-77 Basic Matte Box Kit with French | GMKBAS77K

Hi,

We have just ordered the Genus. It does com with a rails setup too and in this package 3 filters!....

Genus Ultimate Matte Box Kit (http://genuseurope.com/shop/products/Genus_Ultimate_Matte_Box_Kit_3_Filter-126-3.html)

We originally purchased a Redrock. It was a great looking mattebox but I wouldn't recommend it for the EX1. I could not get it to not vignette and I took all the advice offered on the Redrock forum.

I think the Genus will do the job. If Matt Davis likes it it will do me!

Darren,

Please report to us in detail when you have tested this solution. What I'm afraid of is that - while the RR mattebox has a tendency to vignette with the EX1 even though it uses 16:9 format (4x5.65" filters) - the square filters of the Genus might pose even more problems.

Of course, I might be mistaken - but I'd do with some hands-on feedback from you :)

TIA,

Piotr

I can't answer that one. Hopefully not!

Matt can probably give us the answer for that!????

Vincent which Vocas matte box are you using? I checked them out a NAB and was impressed with the weight and different options.

@Paul: the MB-325, with the rails suport. See this iPhone pic.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachments/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/17722d1272049386-pmw-350-firewire-matt-box-foto.jpg

Thanks Vincent that is the one I am looking at for my f800. Any pros or cons?

It's still a sort of plastic so breakable. I have one on my 3 year old PDW F350, one day the camera (lens) bumped against a door,fortunately the mattebox broke, not the lens... Beside that, and maybe the price (1500 eur, almost 2000 USD) no cons. It's a good piece of gear.

Hi Paul,
I’m using the same VOCAS matte box as Vincent does on my XDCAM HD. They are not made out of plastic, but molded carbon fibre, what is making them so light. For the matte box itself I have no cons. Great product! I love the internal eyebrowns that can be controlled on the side of the matte box.

But be aware that if you are going to put the matte box on 15 mm rails and want to use a lens controller in combination with a Fujinon lens , you have to buy a special 12-pin Hirose cable from Chrosziel (part nr. 401-CABLE) with a 90 degree connector. The connectors on the DIGIPOWER lenses are placed on a stupid and totally wrong place. The clamping system that holds the rails sits in the way and will not allow you to plug a straight connector into the lens. Please don’t fall of your chair but this very short cable costs $419,95 at B&H! Canon lenses do not have this problem because their connectors are placed further to the front. This can simply be solved by using a Z-shaped bar kit, also sold by VOCAS.

Chrosziel 401-CABLE (http://www.chrosziel.com/prod.asp?wdid=20&pid=56&sid=0)

Thanks Vincent appreciate the first hand experience.

Ivan great feedback.

I did know the matte box was Carbon after the NAB visit which is a good thing for weight, but also why it will break on impact.

Nice to hear you like the internal eyebrows I was not sure how helpful this would be. Great to know the Fujinon lens controller will need the Chrosziel 90 degree connector. This is different then what I was told at the NAB booth where they said the controller will work fine with rails. Thanks for the heads up.

So far with my search at NAB and on the web this is still my first choice for matte box.

Matt can probably give us the answer for that!????

Yes, I have used it with success with the Century 0.6 wide, apart from the time it twisted a bit.

Great info guys. Thanks so much for all the feedback. Can anybody tell me the advantages (if any) of the Vocas vs. the Genus? They appear very similar apart from those internal eyebrows on the Vocas. Quality of construction, ease of mounting, etc. Since cost would be such a concern for me, I'd want to be able to initially purchase one of these brands as a clip-on and then, when funds allow, get a rail system to support it.

Although I can not explain it very well, the Vocas one is build better, it just feels more solid. Filter holders do slide better @ the vocas one, and the screws and stuff are holding up better. If it's worth the extra money, that's up to you. I've chosen Vocas on all my ENG camera's (out in de field every day) and de Genus for my Canon 7D kit (less used).

Vincent I think you explained it very well. The Vocas is better quality which is the same thing I found at NAB.

[QUOTE=Paul Cronin;1522240]This is different then what I was told at the NAB booth where they said the controller will work fine with rails.QUOTE]

That's weird. They even have put it on their website. Looks like they still don't know what they are talking about. Back then I've waited two months to get that special Chrosziel cable from them.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page below.

VOCAS SYSTEMS BV (http://www.vocas.com/links/dvfitchart_hpx300-link.htm)

Ivan I was not talking to Vocas direct I was talking to a dealer. He also told me he would contact me after NAB to sell his demo which has not happened. Oh well I will give Charles at Abel Cine Tech a call since they now show Vocas matte box on their site.

I will check out your link.

I thought I'd share this with you... A memento to build quality and ruggedness.

With all the difficulties a bulky and heavy accessory like the RedRock microMatteBox can pose, one will appreciate its quality when - due to hasty rig assembling - it falls off the rod system, fixed to the tripod at some 5 feet height.

Mine just did, smashing against the concrete floor.

NOTHING has been damaged - not even the $300 glass T1 filter that was inside it!

:)

The Vocas mattebox is sold in the US by Century/Schneider: Century Precision Optics | 0DS-MB44-WEX 4x4 DV | 0DS-MB44-WEX

I have one of these myself and have been very happy with it. You need to insert filters from the bottom when using with the stock lens, but when I use with my Century .75x, it moves the mattebox forward enough that filters can be inserted from above. However, when using with the wide lens you can only use the filter holder closest to the lens or you get vignetting. Not an issue unless you need to use two filters with the wide lens. The LCD screen just barely clears to allow opening and closing.

The build quality is great, and it comes on and off very easily with some quick-release latches and a thumbscrew. Actually I had not realized that it was carbon fiber! Whatever it is, it's rugged and attractive.

You could start with just the mattebox and add the rods later, but I would personally not be comfortable hanging it off my lens without the rods. Here's photo of my EX1 setup.

Boyd, I'm thinking more and more about the Vocas like the one you have. A couple questions: Do the "eyebrows" merely act like the shutters on the stock EX1 lens shade or do they work as an adjustable masking device? Are those eyebrows worth the extra cost? Also, is the fold-down shoulder brace a solid add-on or is it flimsy? Thanks for posting the photo.

I know it is big and heavy but the Red Rock Micro Matte box is more versatile than all of those mentioned here. The 4x4 is going to vignette with wide angle adapters. The RR box is inexpensive, built very well, swing away, and uses the nice 4x5.65 filters. Based on the price of the Schnieder rig for around $1350, you should be able to easily come up with a comparable RR setup that is much nicer. But it will be heavier for hand held work so that would be the one reason to go with something like the Chroisziel which I have used a lot but I think is far to expensive for the construction quality, and the optional side flags cost more than the entire RR Mattebox itself!

The RedRock is excellent but I would be very wary of using it in the stock EX1 lens. I had real problems with vignetting due to the fact that it you have to but the thing right up to the mic.

Dave: The shutters (eyebrows) on the Century/Vocas mattebox are completely different from the doors on the stock lens hood. On the lens hood, they are used like a lens cap to keep dirt out when not in use. The shutters on the mattebox are small and cannot seal the lens at all. They are used like tiny "flags" to mask off stray light. Actually, I think the real idea is probably to make what is basically a 4:3 mattebox more suitable for a 16:9 camera. You just need to be a little careful to always check their position to be sure they aren't clipping off part of the shot. Are they worth the extra cost? That's up to you I guess. I would not buy this product simply for the shutters.

The shoulder support is made of pretty heavy metal rod and is very solid. It folds down out of the way when not in use, and is spring-loaded to "pop" into position when extended. Note that it's like a rifle stock that presses against your shoulder, and not like a shoulder mounted camera that sits on top of your shoulder. Of course, the EX1 is very front-heavy, especially with a mattebox and wide lens, so the shoulder rest is not a cure-all by any means. But I find it handy nonetheless.

Depending on the type and position of your tripod plate, you may have to remove it or slide it forward to prevent blocking the shoulder rest from folding out.

Yes you have to back it pretty tight against the mic, but I have not had it causing any ill effects. There is no question that it is a tight fit there.

The big deal about the Vocas is the weight or the lack thereof. It is made of carbon fiber and is as light as a feather. Build quality is really good too. A major piece of functionality of a mattebox is to dramatically reduce stray light. The more that is blocked the better. The Vocas mini shutters are just another tool to this end.

If you have to do a lot of handheld work or steadicam where your rig is near max weight capacity then a Vocas mattebox would be a good choice. Chrosziel would be up there on my list too but the Vocas is way lighter.

BTW I run a Chrosziel but if I were to do it again Vocas and even the TLS matteboxes would be on my shortlist. The Redrock is incredible bang for the buck but the weight and the funky donut work you have to do on the back to get a snug fit with some lenses turned me off the unit. However, I can see why a large number of people go for the Redrock mattebox.

-Andrew