Im a film student who's used to shooting on DV cameras like the Cannon GL2, of which i own one. I was wondering what would be a good HD quality camera for shooting narrative shorts for projects? It would need to be under $1000, something I could afford on a student budget, and be able to capture on a mac with Final Cut Express.

thanks,

is the DV route your only choice?

No, DV Cameras are just what I'm used to. I've never operated a camera that uses Flash memory. I'm also not quite sure how I'd transfer the footage since macs have no internal port for Flash memory. However, I've used an external usb port for digital cameras.

I'm sure you've noticed the hype of the Canon T2i... Are you willing to go to the DSLR route?
If you are doing narrative, hmmm I guess the 12 min time limit might be a road block but that depends on how long you are going to shoot for each clip. If you were to change angles and such, I'm sure it's no more than 12 mins a clip, I'm assuming.

HV40 is a great camcorder. With decent lighting, you can get that horse to work! :)

I dont' have any personal experiences with the new canon lines HS, or the HF.

I guess these are all Canon products. Haha I don't know enough about other camcorders!! Sorry~

Canon 550d (2ti) is the best bet. Plus it can take decent pictures too.

Canon T2i with Rode VideoMic. I own a Sony EX1 and still love the T2i. They are different animals, but with enough effort I could make a high quality video with the T2i.

The 550d is a good choice for narrative work... as long as you know it's limitations and understand how to work around them. More than with any other camera you'll want to record audio seperately - partly to avaid the cameras auto-gian and partly to get the mic away from the camera and lenses which, unlike dedicated video cameras, are not designed to be as silent as possible.

The DLSR's are a whole different level of complexity in your production compared to a GL2 but they can be excellent educational tools as they teach you to use it on set like a film camera - recording sound seperately, shorter takes, lens selection, DOF and f-stop consideration, etc.

I own 2 Canon GL2's, a Canon 50D, and a Canon T2i. I found the T2i very intuitive due to the familiar language used by Canon in all their photo and video products. Obviously the T2i doesn't give you the audio or focus control the GL2 does, but the picture is awesome in both photo and video.

Lee, If your not looking at getting a DSLR.. you might consider the Canon HV40... very nice picture quality.

I've got to put in my vote for the HV40, too. I've used it and it's earlier sibling, the HV20 -- they are basically the same as far as picture quality. As Daniel said, with good light this camera really excels with outstanding quality. It does fall apart quickly with low light, but sometimes that can be helped considerably in post by using NeatVideo. (That's what I use, though there are others.) Though I generally shoot in 60i, I learning to like the native 24p in the right situation.

I traveled a lot with my HV20 including quite a few trips into the rainforest and up into the Andes mountains. It feels a little flimsy, but it has held up extremely well on some challenging trips and rough handling.

One last thing, I'm still a tape guy and the HV40 is minidv.

Lee, I can only add my support to the Canon HV serie. I own a HV30 and it is a fantastic camera, like Phil I have travel extensively travel (jungles of South Asia and more) with this camera and never experience any problems.
I recently bought a Canon HF-s 200 and love it and it is going to be my travel camera. But, since you are a film student I think that the "look" of the HV serie would please you more.
It has been said before the HV serie is more filmique , the HF-s200 certainly more video like.
This being said and in fairness to the HF-s serie it may be possible to get the film look but it exceed my experience and competence so far and I am still waiting to see convincing exemples from others; meanwhile, have a look at 2 of my favorites videos made with the HV30 by very talented guys (not me):
my favorite travel video:
NEPAL INHABITANTS on Vimeo

an other very impressive look (an fun to watch) at what the HV30 can do:
Quantum of Solace Trailer Remake ( Fan Made ) on Vimeo

Very interesting stuff, Robert. You've really got me thinking now about 24p with my kind of new HV40. (Still haven't used it as much as I'd like.) I used 60i when traveling before with my HV20 because I never wanted to deal with pulldown workflow of 24f.

I'm thinking of my other travel videos and I think 24p would look just as nice or better in many, if not most, situations -- especially if I ever learn how to use the 35mm adapter that I bought awhile back.

I was first impressed in the opening shots of the old man drinking. That didn't look at all like HV20 footage -- there should have been much more grain! (HV users know what I mean.)

But then I watched the second "Quantum of Solace" trailer and was blown away. Gives me hope that I can do some good things with my HV40 yet!

Bottom line, Lee, is that the examples Robert chose make me feel even better about recommending the HV40 to you. Low light issues have always made me long for my A1 on many trips, but both videos show a lot more possibilities than I've experienced with the HV line so far. That means I've still got a lot to learn about my camera because apparently low light issues can be overcome and done well.

Also, Robert, I know it's been about 8 months ago, but how was your trip to India last year? I work with a woman who grew up there and she has made it the #2 choice on my travel wishlist (after my second home, Peru). Wish I could go there this summer, but my wife will be in school and I'd feel bad about traveling without her. I may take a short trip somewhere in Central America, though.

Hi Phil, the trip was great. I love India, we stayed 4 months, 3 months filming for the Yoga Institute and one month backpacking in the south and it was beautiful
BTW, the little Litepanels was used extensively with the HV30 (my second unit kit) and has proven very reliable.
Enjoy your HV40, there is no doubt that these cameras are fantastic and the biggest limitation is only our own expertise, and by practice we can only get better.
Peru is on my list, so I may eventually ask you for some advices.

Thankyou for all the input,

I have experience with the Panasonic HVX 200 from using it in classes at school. But it is far too pricey for me to afford. the Canon HV40 may be up my alley. Does it have a mic input for a shotgun?

Thankyou for all the input,

I have experience with the Panasonic HVX 200 from using it in classes at school. But it is far too pricey for me to afford. the Canon HV40 may be up my alley. Does it have a mic input for a shotgun?

Another vote for the HV series!

As far as sound - It has a mini-jack input, but ideally you would want to purchase an XLR adapter as it will reduce excess noise and provide higher quality sound..

I would personally go with a Beachtek or JuicedLink. The shoe-mount Canon MA-300 XLR adapter is also available, but I'm not sure if it would fit the HV's. Can anyone clarify?

You can use an XLR-to-miniplug cable, too. I've used the one that came with my Sennheiser G2 wireless system and it worked fine. I don't know how it would work with other mics, though. I 'd be curious to know how it would work with a mic on a boom with a longer cable. (If anyone is interested, I think I have a 25' XLR-to-miniplug cable that I never used that I'd be willing to try out and report back.)

I'll vouch for the Juiced Link adapter. Mine worked very well when I got it, but I haven't used it in the field. I bought it for my older HV20 to use multiple mics, but soon after bought an XH-1A so it was only used for a little testing. I'm not an audio pro, but the sound seemed pretty clean to me.

Unless you've already got an XLR microphone, why not just use a Rode Videomic on the HV40? That's what I use on my two HV30s. My XLR mics go with my XHA1.

I almost always record audio separately on my H4N recorder, synch up in post, and then delete the cameras audio anyway. I just use the waveform from the audio from the camera to synch with the audio from the DAT, then delete the camera audio entirely.

Of course, for interviews you may want a wireless setup.

But for an HV40, the Rode Videomic will do a good job. The price is good for the quality you get. It also looks good on the HV, especially with a lens hood on the front of the camera. With paying clients, appearance DOES matter.

Roger

With a budget of $1,000 and the fact this would be my only camera, I would go with a Canon HV40, a Juicedlink/BeachTek adapter and a decent tripod. I'd buy used where possible, but the HV40 is at a real nice price right now at B&H.

DSLRs are nice (I have a Panasonic GH1) but I wouldn't want it to be my only video camera.

Unless you've already got an XLR microphone, why not just use a Rode Videomic on the HV40? That's what I use on my two HV30s. My XLR mics go with my XHA1.

I almost always record audio separately on my H4N recorder, synch up in post, and then delete the cameras audio anyway. I just use the waveform from the audio from the camera to synch with the audio from the DAT, then delete the camera audio entirely.

Of course, for interviews you may want a wireless setup.

But for an HV40, the Rode Videomic will do a good job. The price is good for the quality you get. It also looks good on the HV, especially with a lens hood on the front of the camera. With paying clients, appearance DOES matter.

Roger

The mic most used on my HV40 is a Sennheiser MKE300 which is similar to the Rode Videomic, but I think Rode is probably a better mic. If it wasn't so darned big (!), I'd have gone with Rode, too. They appear to be very popular with people whose opinions are well respected. (Like Roger, of course.) I thought the mono only sound would be a problem, but frankly, no one notices when I simply send it to both channels.

Roger, how difficult is it to sync the H4N? Obviously, you'd want it to be perfect. I'm asking because I have an H4 and am thinking very hard about getting a Canon T2i or 7D. I used to do a lot of photography when traveling, but do less because I have more fun with video and hate carrying too much gear -- especially in places where I don'treally want to advertise that I have much gear. Still, if I could do both with one camera it would cut down what I travel with on personal trips. I'm concerned about the AGC issues with HDSLR's, but syncing would deal with that and allow the use of quality mics, too. This is all uncharted territory for me, but I think it's a good idea to learn!

now here's a question, would I be better buying the Canon HV40 or a DSLR like the Canon 7d or the T2i?

I mainly want this for school projects, short narratives, nothing over 15 minutes or so. What would be a better invesment for my situation?

DSLR all the way, provided your computer has a pretty "stout" processor, or you would upgrade it. I have both a 7D and a newly acquired T2i; I also have a pair of Canon HF100's but find I am using them less and less (fine working HD cameras though they are) due to the better lens options on the DSLR's.

As mentioned above, separate audio recorder is necessary as even with stereo mic jacks the audio is a bit "crippled" by AGC (Automatic Gain Control)

hmm, ok, any reccomended lenses for shooting HD video on DSLRs?

hmm, ok, any reccomended lenses for shooting HD video on DSLRs?

There goes your $1,000 budget... :)

There goes your $1,000 budget... :)

Hahaha yeah, thats why I wanted to stay away from DSLRs

If you're shooting narratives, then the $100- EF 50/1.8 will do just fine. Even the basic kit 18-55IS lens is fine for that.

If you're shooting narratives, then the $100- EF 50/1.8 will do just fine. Even the basic kit 18-55IS lens is fine for that.

do you need to use a 35mm Lens Adapter to use these lenses on a DSLR or can you just attach them like a normal lens?

The Canon EF lenses will work on all the current Canon dSLR camera's. They attach like any regular lens on an SLR.
The EF-S lenses will work on the Canon cameras with the smaller 1.6-crop sensors, like the T2i, but not on the larger sensor cameras like the 5DII or the pro 1-series.

So after selling a few things on ebay I gathered enough to purchase a Canon 7D at a reasonable price from Penn Camera

Can anyone recommend the best settings for video since I'm a beginner to this camera? I have a EF-S 60mm 2.8 Macro and a EF 50mm 1.8 Lens, I have a Telephoto lens also

Settings for video:

Dial on top set to MANUAL, else you will be in full auto regardless of what settings you think you have made.

Shutter to 1/60th (most of the time) to allow a normal looking amount of motion blur

Aperture as desired for Depth Of Field the scene requires. Shallow to concentrate on subject (portrait perspective) or deep for action, depth in the scene etc, or something in between. Neutral density filters may be required in bright lighting to keep everything in range.

ISO to AUTO temporarily to see what ISO the camera will try to set for the settings you've dialed in above, then set that ISO manually and adjust up or down from there for desired exposure effect. Exposure will then be LOCKED and will not change on you as you pan from one brightness level to another (this is the way I want it, if an exposure change is needed I stop the recording, change camera position/angle to avoid an awkward "cut", readjust exposure with ISO, then start another "scene").

If you leave the ISO on AUTO you will have your camera trying to react to changes in brightness and you most likely do not want that. Looks amatuerish.

While you're adjusting exposure with ISO you do have the ISO "table" occupying much of the LCD area and you may have to judge exposure changes with the area outside the "table", or press the shutter button partway to "kill" the ISO "table" and look at the whole screen. Press the ISO button again to resume adjusting ISO.

One item you definitely will need is some kind of LCD viewfinder loupe. I use 2, the CAVISION viewfinder assembly with mounting plate, swingaway adapter, and a "riser" plate to get the camera up in line with the loupe; the CAVISION has a 6x eyepiece and mine ran about $240 shipped from Canada.

Another option I use is the Hoodman Hoodloupe 3.0 ($79.95) with the extra 3x eyepiece ($39.95) and for now I hold it on with a long rubber band from a package of those purchased at Office Depot. There are other options for varying prices but SOMETHING along this line is absolutely necessary.

Hoodman Corporation (http://www.hoodmanusa.com)

Watch out you don't confuse the Hoodeye 3.0 with the Hoodloupe Mag 3.0. The Hoodeye is nothing but a rubber eye shield and has no optics.

As far as a DSLR rig goes, what would you all recommend?

At first something simple and inexpensive, like the EasyBrace ($50 plus shipping) Easy Brace (http://www.easybrace.com) or the SpiderBrace 2 (Combo) for about $100 shipped www.spiderbrace.com

I use the SpiderBrace 2 (Combo)

Avoid the temptation to "pimp" up a "rig", staying "simple" lets you go for pure function

Thanks for all the info Bruce.

I have one last question, I own a Rebel T1I in addition to the 7D I just got. If I used both for a short narrative, would I be able to mix and match the footage without loss of quality?