I do not have the expertise to choose between microphones, and so rely on others who do.

I want a hypercardiod condenser mic for indoor/home studio recording of speech, as I believe such mics are the best for the job.

How would people here judge between the Audio Technica U873R, and the Rode NT3?

For studio recording of speech - ie, voice-over,etc - I'd go with a cardioid condenser such as the Rode NT1a or a cardioid dynamic such as the Rode Procaster.

Thanks Steve.

Just to clarify, I wonder if we are using the word 'studio' in different ways.

What I am referring to is a reasonably large room in my home which I have set up for filming in front of a green screen. To date I have used my Rode NTG2 overhead on a boom, but given that everyone seems to say that shotguns are better for outside recording, and hypercardiods are better for indoor recording, I was looking at getting a hypercardiod to replace the shotgun for this purpose.

Does this explanation change anything?

Thanks again

If you are dedicating a room to be a "studio" then in theory you can control the acoustics of the room. If you cover the reflective surfaces of the room with moving blankets/foam/whatever and stick a cushy chair in some of the corners, you can likely remove most of the reasons you need a hyper over a shotgun.

Shotguns go strange when they receive reflected sound in closed spaces. If you clap your hand in the room and can hear a definite echo (or worse, a kind of a "fading away" of the sound like a bunch of echoes/reverb, then you are likely to have problems with a shotgun. If you have sound absorbing "stuff" in the room, "stuff" on the walls and some kind of covering like a rug/carpet on the floor, then the shotgun can be fine.

The indoor/outdoor guideline applies to "typical" spaces. A soundstage, for example, is the most obvious exception. It is indoors, but acoustically dead and in that case a shotgun works great.

Hope that helps!
-a

You might also tell us your budget for said mic, to narrow things down a little.

I have extensively used the older version of the AT873r, but not the newer version that you mention, the U873r that came out a couple of years ago. It's my understanding the mic was changed a fair amount so I really can't say how the new one would work.
I also use the NT3 and it works well as an overhead boom on a static mount. However, it won't have the output that your NTG-2 has if that's important for your camera's preamps. The NT3 can run on battery power if needed, the AT mic is 48v phantom only.
As mentioned since you have some control of the acoustics in the room, you have more flexibility as to the mic you can use.
If you've reduced the acoustic reflections and have low ambient noise, you could use a wide range of low-noise, moderate to high sensitivity mics and be successful.
What is your budget and do you have other uses in mind for this second mic besides using it in your "studio" space?

Thanks guys. very helpful.

While I can have my room set up as a studio, it is not exclusively set up for this. The whole room is carpeted wall to wall, which includes a heavy duty underlay (we have just had the whole house re carpeted). The ceiling coming off the long wall slopes at 37 degrees from 1.5m off the floor right across the 3.6m width of the room and the short wall ceiling intersects with this slopes at 30 degrees. I have some Pinex (soft board paneling) on three walls (used to be notice boards). I think the acoustics are quite 'flat', no echos.

If this is so, perhaps I don't need a hyper mic.

My budget - well at least the figure I had in mind - was around $US200 - $US250 including shipping to NZ. (Actually I had already initiated a purchase of the U873R through an NZ website, but didn't do my usual checks on businesses I do online business with. The mic didn't come and didn't come, so I emailed them asking what was going on, and they have said they can't supply, actually it seems like they may have gone under. I just received my refund last night - phew! - a month after placing the order.) The failure of this sale and the time delay has given me time to re-evaluate, which I am doing.

I have a project to do for which I want to have the best audio I can get within the scope of my limited funds. Thus my looking at a hyper on the recommendation of others, as I have mentioned.

The microphone will be running to my camera through a JuicedLink CX231, which allows 11-48v phantom power - the U873R can run on 12v. My NTG2 of course can run off phantom power or battery.

Good info on your recording space.
At that price point I might say you already have one of the better mics available in the NTG-2.
Of the two mics you first asked about, I would recommend the NT3 but I don't know if you can actually get one at that budget level.
Even though the U873R is improved over the older model I have, I don't think it would be better than the NTG-2 for use in your studio. It would be useful for other purposes though if you had ended up getting one.

Is renting a possible choice so you could test out some substantially better mics?

You could also try a small diaphragm cardioid mic. That would open up a number of other choices like the AT4021. The price of that mic varies a great deal depending on dealer. It can be found as low as $249 for US delivery.
I can also make an odd-ball recommendation. Go in with a friend and get the AT2041SP combo for $150 US. Then split this kit up and you keep the AT2021 ($50) for testing in your space and your friend or you could take the AT2020 for $100. The AT2021 is only available in this kit unfortunately and performs much better than its price point.
It would depend on your space's acoustics, ambient noise, and distance from the subject as to whether a cardioid would work better than your shotgun. If you ever video 2 or 3 people at one time, a cardioid could definitely be helpful.

For a hyper, neither the NTG-2 nor the U873R are ideal.

The NTG-2 uses an interference pattern for side rejection. That makes for an ugly off-axis rejection.

The U873R is for handheld use. It's designed for being inches from the mouth, rather than feet away. It will have very little low-end when far from the source.

The AT4053b is a better choice, but is out of budget. Of the mics that you list, the NTG-2 would be the better choice.

Another option would be to go with an omni lav, like the AT803b. It's big, so it doesn't hide well (the 899 is smaller), but sounds good for the money. You'd want to keep the space fairly dead, but at least the reflections wouldn't be badly colored the way they can be with a shotgun. You can also go for a cardioid lav, but they need to be placed carefully, and are more sensitive to the talent turning their head.

Another possibility is a large diaphragm cardioid condenser, like the NT-1A. I would only use it if you can mount it on a stand (it's heavy), barely out of the frame just above the talent's forehead. Avoid it if somebody has to lift it, or if it will be too far from the talent.

If I had to sneak up the price a bit, I could do so, but only if there would be a advantage in doing this.

Jay, your comment "If you ever video 2 or 3 people at one time, a cardioid could definitely be helpful." is certainly appropriate. I could very well being doing just that. However my primary concern at the moment is the recording for a DVD project which will only have myself speaking.

The Oktava MK-012 is one the real deals on the market and a much better mic.

You can read about it here:

As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html)

I have the Oktava kit and it has very good sound. Because of the special considerations for buying and using that mic I often forget to recommend it. Since you're shooting indoors on a static boom, the need for a high-grade shockmount and expensive wind protection would be reduced. Not entirely eliminated and you should still use both types of protection, but inexpensive solutions will work in your studio.
Since there are counterfeit Oktava's on the market you should buy from a trusted source. For example I bought my kit around 2003 from The Sound Room at The Trusted Source for Genuine Russian Oktava Microphones, Heil Microphones, Grado Labs Headphones and much more!!!! (http://www.oktava.com/)
They have the mic kit with 3 capsules and -10db pad for $349 US. The single capsule mic is $249 US.
There are other threads here about other good dealers and modifications you can have done to improve the sound even more.
I haven't used my Oktava in a while and haven't compared it directly to some newer mics I have such as the AT875R small shotgun, and the AT4021, AT3031 and AT2021 small cardioids.

In addition to what Jay said, even the genuine Russian Oktavas' are not all created equal. (quality control) The Sound Room is a good source, the mics are hand-picked, bench tested and listened to prior to being sold.

Before you do anything in your new space, try your existing Rode, and see what it sounds like. If the actual room sounds bad, then you could be better spending the mic budget on sound treatment, that could let any microphone sound better. Hard parallel surfaces need sorting and there are many useful packages available for home recording enthusiasts.

To date I have used my Rode NTG2 overhead on a boom, but given that everyone seems to say that shotguns are better for outside recording, and hypercardiods are better for indoor recording, I was looking at getting a hypercardiod to replace the shotgun for this purpose.


Paul clearly he has tried to his shotgun in the setup.

The primary difference between using a shotgun and hypercardiod indoors is due to the mics pattern to the rear and the quality of that off axis sound.

I read this differently.
everyone seems to say that shotguns are better ...

They do indeed - but the point I was making is that if the acoustics are a problem, then rather than trying to find a particular microphone to minimise the problem, it would be better to solve the problem at source.

My reasoning is this. If you have even a modest studio space, can you guarantee that the circumstance won't arise when you need more microphones/different microphones? So if the real issue in a particular space is the rear and side lobes are allowing early reflections to colour the sound, then the simplest method of producing better sound is to treat the room. A mic that can only be used at a certain location, in a certain direction isn't really very useful.

I've thought about my 'studio' and I don't think it is a problem acoustics wise. The room sound is flat, due to its characteristics which I described earlier: carpet on floor, sloping ceiling, absorbent material on walls, etc.

I have used my shotguns (latterly the NTG2 but earlier a Rode videomic) and I guess the 'sound' from them is OK. One issue I did find in one recording was that when I dropped my head and read from some paper, the volume decreased. Is this just a characteristic of shotguns, or simply that my mouth was just that much further away from the mic and pointing in a less favourable direction?

One problem I have is that I've had a life time of running machines, and while I can generally hear ok, I am aware that I have lost some hearing from the top end. Thus to be frank, I can listen to a recording, and it seems ok to me, but the question is, is it really, or could it be better with a different mic? Better that is for other people who have better hearing than I have. I confess I'm not sure if I can confirm or deny whether the recordings are fine/adequate/more than adequate with my present setup or not.

I have made some comparison videos showing the Rode NT3, and the Audio Technica AT4053b, and I am in LOVE with the AT4053b now. The first video was in a treated studio, and I thought my AT was maybe too dark sounding, but upon extended use, and a 2nd test in a more live room, I found the NT3 to be too thin and brittle, and the 4053b to be full and rich. I even threw in some NTG-3/NTG-2 stuff in to get that perspective.

Here are the tests:

Studio
Mic Shootout: Audio-Technica AT4053b Vs. Rode NT3 on Vimeo

Live Room
Hyper & Shotgun Indoor Shootout: AT4053b Vs. Rode NT3 AND NTG-2 Vs. NTG-3 on Vimeo

One issue I did find in one recording was that when I dropped my head and read from some paper, the volume decreased. Is this just a characteristic of shotguns, or simply that my mouth was just that much further away from the mic and pointing in a less favorable direction?

- This is a normal, even with omni lavs to an extent. Except when the mic is attached to someones head, via a headset, tape, hairpins.. or implant.

So if the real issue in a particular space is the rear and side lobes are allowing early reflections to colour the sound, then the simplest method of producing better sound is to treat the room. A mic that can only be used at a certain location, in a certain direction isn't really very useful.

You need more than one mic in the video world. And though the original poster is working in his own studio, most video productions take place at some location you have no control over. So treating a room of an interviewee you will be with for 30 minutes is not practical. It's not like you need a bunch of mics, mainly 2 will cover most situations, a Hyper and a Shotgun. Of course if you are going hand held for interviews a good Dynamic is needed. Any audio person worth their salt will have an array of mics to handle what the situation requires.

Something has just come up today that made me realise a hyper will not be used only in my studio (of course!) but any indoor event that I record. There is the possibility I could be filming a speech at an auditorium at Parliament in about a months time and I guess the shotgun would not be suitable for that. I have a dynamic handheld (uni-directional), a number of lavs (giant squids to irivers), a videomic (probably should sell it) and the NTG2, but none really suitable for an auditorium from the lectern direct to camera (through my JuiceLink).

Thus I'm back (I think) to looking at getting a hyper. I can get the AT U873R for a good price - and am attracted because the JuicedLink guy has a recommend on his site. It says that while it a handheld, it is also good on a stand. But if there are better for not all that much more, I'm interested. Will have to act relatively quickly to have it for this possible event.

Renton,

I might have found the perfect solution - or not.

At NAB I went to the Shure booth and asked about hyper and super cardioids for indoor use. The guy noodled for a while, and then offered up the MX202. It's an overhead mic on a gooseneck that can accept a super cardioid cap. It costs less than $200. I'm not sure exactly how to mount it, but I'm sure that you could figure that out.

Shure - Microphones - MX202 Microflex Overhead Microphones (http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_MX202B-C_content)

Shure | MX202B/S - Mic with Stand Adapter | MX202B/S | B&H Photo

The good:
* It's a super cardioid.
* It's light.
* It doesn't use a long tube, interference pattern.
* It's meant for use a foot or more from the mouth.
* The specs look reasonable.

The not so good:
* Non-traditional mount.
* The frequency response looks like it has a high peak, but it lacks a 1 kHz peak, which is generally nice for voice clarity. The bass looks weak.

The might-not-be good:
* For all I know, it sounds like junk! (I haven't heard it.)

Anyway, it's an interesting - and cheap - option.

Thanks Jon...

However, if it is recording from a lectern, it is going to be further away than one foot from the mouth, and must allow for some movement by the speaker.

And given it would be used mostly on a mic stand/boom of some sort, it would be better to have a regular method of mounting it - or so it seems to me...

The MX202 and other mics of that type, are not very versatile, and subject to extreme plosives when used on a podium with a "mic eater".. windscreen or not.

I can get the AT U873R for a good price - and am attracted because the JuicedLink guy has a recommend on his site. It says that while it a handheld, it is also good on a stand. But if there are better for not all that much more, I'm interested. Will have to act relatively quickly to have it for this possible event.

Hey Renton. I make my living doing video, and my specialty is audio. The AT U873R is a hand held mic. It's not what you, as a videographer need no matter how cheap it is. You would be better off with the NT3, though I highly recommend the AT4053b. And the MX202 is for recording choirs so just forget it.

The 4 "best value" indoor boom/on camera mics are the Oktava MK12. the AT4053, the AKG CK93, and the Rode NT3.

Google these, or look on B&H Photo:
• The Oktava sounds great, but is susceptible to handling noise. The Trusted Source for Genuine Russian Oktava Microphones, Heil Microphones, Grado Labs Headphones and much more!!!! (http://oktava.com/)
• The Rode NT3 is awesome, cheap, battery powered but heavy. If you must cheap out - go with this. Rode | NT3 Microphone | NT3 | B&H Photo Video

• The AKG CK93 sounds great, but the other caps it can take(shotgun, cardioid) aren't so hot.
AKG | Blue Line Series Microphone Kit | B&H Photo Video

•The AT4053b is the best out of the 4 at 500.00, and worth every penny. Audio-Technica | AT4053b Hypercardioid Condenser | AT4053B | B&H



But you have to think of this as a career purchase. For 500.00 you'll have a great mic that will suit your needs as long as you have it. If you cheap out and get a 200.00 hand held mic made for singers you won't be using the right tool, and your audio will suffer. With the right tool you will be able to do better jobs and make that money back. But if you buy a cheap mic you will have to replace it and spend MORE than if you just got the right mic the first time. Think about it.

As for the speaker at the podium: Perhaps you could get a direct line from the PA to your camera? Or put one of your lavs on the speaker, but don't buy a hand held mic for this one gig. Robert from JuicedLink is a good engineer, but he doesn't buy the best mics.

Thanks so much Chad. Very helpful. I also listened to your creative comparisons of the mics in the clips you posted. I confess I couldn't pick up much difference between the various mics, though the NT3 did sound a bit - what the hang do these words mean!!! - 'thinner' - something anyway! :-)

The Otavia MK012 looks attractive. Plus it gives three options as opposed to one only. What exactly (if anything is exact in this business) does '...susceptible to handling noise.' mean? Under what circumstances?

The NT3 also looks attractive.

I'll check out prices.

Shipping really affects prices. Robert at JuiceLink would ship the U873R for $US35, whereas another outfit I've been talking to, the cheapest they could do shipping was $US90!

I have someone who will ship on for me using USPS which can be cheaper.

Renton, it doesn't matter how cheap Robert will send the mic for if it's the wrong mic. A value isn't a value if it's the wrong tool for your kit.

Handling noise: With the Oktava, if you put it on a boom pole or on your camera, whenever you move your hands/camera you will hear it. Holding the pole, and making a slight adjustment of your hands will be picked up by the mic. If there is the slightest breeze you will hear it. That's why I say the Oktava isn't great except in a stationary, indoor situation.

Best value is the AT4053b.
Second best value is the Rode NT3.

The AT4053b sounds a lot better than the NT3. I say dig deep and get the 4053b. You will not be disappointed, and you won't think about the money ever again. But if you get a crappy mic you will think of that every time you use it.

Handling noise is actually more of an issue than sometimes people give credit for. One of my old shotguns is an Audio Technica 815 - I've always liked the sound, a bit more 'up front' than a 416. Isn't it hard putting sound into words? BUT - it does have an issue with handling noise. In a proper suspension mount like the older style Rycotes with the elastic band style mounts, it's fine. But in the more modern rubber style mounts then noises from the housing or handle get through. Any attempt to hold it in the hand, even gently, are very tricky. The noises from my fingers, just gripping the tube, can be clearly heard. The worst examples I've ever heard come from the Chinese copies of the Shure SM58s - compared to the real things, every rub, nail tap and vibration come through VERY loud and clear.

Thanks Chad. I was just mentioning variations in shipping costs to illustrate how the cost is added to.

Appreciate your concern for me to get the best, but the AT4053b really is out of my league price wise...

I can get the NT3 for $US220...

Renton I've used the NT3 for years. I have 2 of them, and have recorded VO, on a boom, acoustic guitar, plays - it's the best bang for your buck out there. Go for it.

Here's a tune I did with just one NT3 and a little reverb:

Waste Time - Chad Johnson - Original Song on Vimeo

Renton,
Being an idiot from the states, I'm not familiar with "Parliament", if it's anything like the US capital, we have 'mults' (news bridge) in chambers and most meeting rooms at the capital and congressional buildings, where placing a mic on a podium or panel table is forbidden. (or you and your equipment will be forcefully removed and/or shot--- lol.. In actuality, the security personnel on capital hill are much more pleasant and accommodating than one would think.)
That said: The AT4053 is a great mic. It's high-output is great when you encounter a low-talker. You will want at least a foam windscreen and shock-mount for either camera or boom mounting.

...And the MX202 is for recording choirs so just forget it...

But with the super cardioid capsule it's not meant for choirs, is it?

Again, I haven't heard it, but it's an interesting - and cheap - possibility.

I thought I had decided on the NT3...but then thought I would zoom around the web for Oktava Mk012's, and see what was said about them.

I've found a pretty good price, but have found an issue. Numerous comments say that it needs a pop filter because it is sensitive to pops from vocals/speech. If this is the case, it is hardly the sort of mic you would have at a lectern, is it? Or with a sponge cover, would that solve it?

It seems hopeful filming this do at Parliament may be a go ahead for me. Five big name speakers against the 'climate change' fraud. The NZ government is the only one in the world to pass an emissions trade bill, which is going to cost the country dearly if left in place. Idiots. There, that shows my colours!!! (Probably off topic!! :-)) I'll have to keep my lights dimmed so as not worsen global warming!!!

If the filming does go ahead, the contributions will be posted on youtube...

I might as well stick my oar in here as someone who puts a fair effort into the audio side of the video thing I do.


The NT3 is a good value for money mic, being able to run it on a 9V battery can come in handy when you don't have phantom power or when you're using a recorder that seems to use as much battery power powering the mic as recording. At the end of the day though and as someone who also has to worry about shooting video at the same time as recording putting as much energy into getting the mic in the right place as worrying about which mic can pay dividends.
I also bought a Sabre suspension mount that I use with the NT3 and NT4 mics. It's a bit big to get in shot though. Don't forget to get a good quality mic stand as well.