Anyone offer some help on this I have noise in my footage even at full auto. I have done a test and this is the same on the MRU & Tape. If I am setting something wrong? or with setting the camera on full auto, I assumed it would be clear.

Any help is most appreciated.
James

What makes you think full auto would give you no noise? For example, in a dark room, the camera will happily crank up the gain to max if it thinks it needs to.

The footage is shot outdoors at 7:30am and I just thought setting the Z7 to full auto outdoors I should not see any noise, especially at that time in the morning.

Did you have the image stabilisation system on? That makes a lot of noise...

I would try a test on manual and see if you get the same problem. Earlier sony cameras need to have everything on manual to make sure one automatic setting is not creating problems. I don't know if the Z7 is the same, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Make sure gain, iris and shutter speed are on manual. Put gain on zero, adjust iris for correct exposure and see how the noise is.

You could also play the tape with the recorded noisy footage and enable the 'data code' display. This will let you see what setting the camera had decided to use. Check if the gain is up.

Sorry, It was not clear that you meant video noise...
I have the same problem with my Z7 it is much noisier than the Z5, for instance. Even on full manual with gain at -3dB!

Thanks for all the replies so far on this, here's the settings -

Test 1 - Full Auto

Test 2 - Full Manual - 5600K/ND3/-6db/50/f2.8(later when zoomed f2.2)

The reason I set the gain -6db as I have shot on this setting as advised since I have had the HVR Z7E, but the noise/grain in my footage is there no matter what setting. Yes we had a bright morning in Glasgow but.....

On a shoot today I took my camera and the DOP said after watching the clips I shot yesterday morning I have a lot of buzz/grain in my footage, it is not noticeable on the camera's LCD. His advice contact Sony as it looks like my CCD or a Sensor setting has went wrong.

Which I will do after the holidays.

James

Sorry, It was not clear that you meant video noise...
I have the same problem with my Z7 it is much noisier than the Z5, for instance. Even on full manual with gain at -3dB!

Luc, I have shot my Z7 with another Z5 and mine does not have more noise than the Z5. Maybe there are production line variations.

James, it would seem like your #2 settings would produce minimum noise/grain if you had enough light to get a good exposure with the ND3 turned on. BTW, your camera doesn't have CCDs. It uses CMOS image devices.

Hi there, sorry for the CCD comment I know the Z7 works with CMOS. I had just came in from a long shoot I was not thinking correctly. Regarding the grain/noise it is there at any exposure setting I set. When I first got my Z7 my settings are worse than what I typed earlier but no grain.noise(shots over exposed and set to clear ND) Final Cut helped fix these mistakes.

Can anyone suggest a test to try as I am kinda stuck, I will be contacting Sony on Tuesday so I have until then.

James

Hi there, it turns out I have a problem with Final Cut Studio. I have had an interlacing/banding issue since I put FCS into my Macbook still can't fix this one? but now I have a new problem footage looks grainy?

I connected my HVR Z7E to a TV via the HDMI and all is well with the camera it is FCS I have to fix. Just thought I would let people know and Thanks for the help again.

James

Hi James and hope you are well.

Note that just connecting your camera via HDMI is not a valid test as all you are looking at is the full HD image from the camera or are you playing back via the HDMI footage that way should show the problem if there is one.

The HDV 25mbs codec may be what is causing the noise as this is what is capturing the images.

Just wanted to point this out just in case you start chasing a problem with FCP that may be actually caused by the HDV recording codec.

IF you have just installed FCP check out the sequence RT settings, it may be that the edit software is degrading the images to allow good playback in RT.

The RT selector is in the left corner near the audio video track controls.

Hi Gary, I am well thanks for asking. Hope you are keeping busy and well yourself.

Since I posted my question I have filmed finishing scenes for a film, a Rap video(all footage looks normal?)

When I did my test with the HDMI Cable the camera was live and all settings looked normal no sign of the issues experienced, in result of my original post....OR when I played back the footage.

I have only noticed my footage within Final Cut Studio being affected since I upgraded from Final Cut 5, to 7.(in November 2009)

I did not know of the Noise issues that can be seen under the 25MB's Codec Thanks for that. What advice can you give on this one?

I have tried my settings under RT in Safe and Unlimited modes. I am 100% positive that it is Final Cut as the footage at times looks normal in Final Cut, then issues with colour and if I import pictures they look terrible. A current project neded them for the film I had to remove stills it was that bad. I am contacting Apple again soon as I have had problems with Final Cut since I bought it(don't get me started on my Interlacing issue as I can't fix this one either)

I have tried to a de-interlace filter on my sequences, export as de-interlaced quicktime. I have to finish projects on my PC it is that bad or the finished results are worse than a bootleg.

James and my Macbook is actually going to kill itself soon (I believe it may even be the GPU that is having issues.....)

Hi
I've got the Z7 for a few weeks. I've noticed in a recent shot that the pictures look noisy even with no gain in low light condition. So I connected the camera to a 37" Panasonic HD TV, I've tried both compenent and HDMI connections : no difference in quality. Even in good lighting condition everything look moisy comparing to my JVC GY-HD200 in the same lighting condition. I was abble to get rid of noise by setting DETAIL to-4. I own 2 Z7 and with the second one : same problem. Look like that the CMOS is not as good as CCD. When editing HD you will nead a large HD monitor to see every detail. With my pro Sony 2050 LCD I can't make the difference between JVC and Sony.
Hung

Hi again James I dont have my Z7 anymore so its difficult to advise much further re HDV as I dont use it anymore but all 1/3" cameras can be noisy to some degree.

What will help though is adjusting the settings as advised by Hung Ton Quoc and that is what I have also had to do with my current cameras the panasonic HPX301, I have them set up as per the BBC and there is very little noise at -3db gain.

That said though if you are seeing a lot of problems you may be right and that there is something wrong with final cut pro now that you are on version 7.

What is the spec of you mac and how much ram do you have? It may also be that FCP 7 is set up differently to FCP 5 as it has a lot more options available for import.

Cheers for the help from all on this.

I have since finding out from this forum set gain at -6db but at times I put it at -3db. So I don't blame this, my Mac has

2.53Ghz Core2Duo
4GB of DDR 3 1066
GPU 9400M or 9600 GT depending on setup

I have just done a clean install of Snow Leopard and Final Cut Studio, after my shoot tonight I can test it with fresh material. I have my sequence set to HDV 1080i50 which I have always worked on since FCP 5.

I use log and transfer via my MRU, I can't see the preview as since day one I am told unsupported by this format? I backup the footage with Clipwrap.

The only change to my workflow is Final Cut and I have since moving to FCP7 had a nasty issue with interlacing.

I knew you had moved on in camera's Gary you said this a while back on the forum. So I will post results soon.

James

Look forward to hearing your test results, regardless of what is showing on the FCP screens the footage should go out at good quality as it will be rendered back to HDV at your native rates.

It might be worth loading in at pro res LT or 422 to see if that makes a difference.

Hi again, test results.

Footage shot on Z7 at 1080i50 on Kingston Compact Flash at 133x
Import to FCP with Log and Transfer.
FCP settings HDV 1080i 25fps

A wee bit of Color Correction, was the only thing added to footage.

Sent from FCP to Compressor - Transfer Complete
Export with Quicktime using Current Settings - Transfer Complete(in Compressor it does not complete)
Export with Quicktime using Conversion method - Transfer complete(in compressor it does not complete)

with the two Quicktime methods, even though I don't get the message Successful in Compressor. I still end up with my .M2v and AC3 files and all content is there.

When I bring any of the above files into DVD Studio Pro or Compressors Preview I see the interlacing issue on my MacBook Screen. and in final DVD?

I am getting annoyed, I know it will be a silly setting to fix this BUT I am in the dark......

Any Help is most appreciated can someone even tell me if my settings are wrong as I never saw these problems with FCP 5.

James

Your problem might be because you are putting interlaced footage on a progressive timeline (shot in 50i, FCP at 25p as you say). Why don't you use an easy setup that matches the footage?

Check to see if FCP has automatically added a 'reverse fields' filter on your clips. If yes, you'll have to go into each clip and remove the filter.

I never said 25p I am sure I am working in an interlaced workflow and the settings below are due to an Easy Setup.


Camera Settings

Recording Format - HDV 1080i
HDV Progressive/Record Type - Interlace/Scan Type 50


Final Cut Settings

Summary
Sequence Preset - HDV - 1080i50
Capture Preset - HDV
Device Control Preset - HDV 1080i50 Firewire Basic
Video Playback - Digital Cinema Desktop Preview - Main
Audio Playback - Default

Sequence Presets
Frame Size - 1440x1080 Pixels
Editing Timebase - 25 fps
Field Dominance - Upper Odd
Pixel Aspect Ratio - HD (1440x1080)
Anamorphic 16:9 - off
Video Processing - - YUV allowed (8 bit)
White Point - White

Compressor - HDV 1080i50
Millions of Colors (24 bit)
No Data Rate Limit
No Key frames Set
Quality - 100

Audio Settings
16-bit 48.000 Khz Stereo

The Setting I have always had problems since moving to FCP 7 is, Preview Unsupported for this Format, in Log and Transfer. I was under the impression if I have set something wrong in FCP, FCP will set the sequence to my imported footage?


James

I never said 25p

FCP settings HDV 1080i 25fps

I misunderstood your 25fps reference.

No problems Vito, I am sorry for not typing it clearer. The settings I posted I assume are normal for my work flow?

James

It was my misunderstanding. No need to apologise.

Your settings seem right to me, but I'll let someone better in Final Cut chime in. I can't figure out where you're going wrong.

Thanks for the feedback Vito, also for your help.
as I said before any help is most appreciated.

James

I'm a bit confused now, you have said originally that it is noise that is the problem!

Noise on digital is very small black dots that jump around the screen like tiny little flies and can look like old film grain!

What this sounds like is interlacing problems as you are shooting interlaced, this may have been displayed OK on FCP 5 as it was quite primative in its HDV handling.

Now that you are on FCP 7 your computer may be rendering more in real time and what you can now see is the interlacing that is there when displaying 50i material on LCD screens.

Try shooting 1080i 25p and see if that cures the problems, I also used to shoot HDV 1080i 50i and then do a master file to pro res at 1920x1080i 25p and that cured a lot of the problems. Not the best way to do it in software but the the Z7 doesn't do native 25p very well due to the HDV codec and compromises on hardware in the camera.

That is why I now use panasonic P2 cameras that shoot in full 1920x1080i 25np to broadcast specs.

Hope this helps James.

Hi Gary,

the issues that I have seen since moving from FCP 5-7

1) Noise in footage (from sunny days) only when delivered to DVD.

2) Interlacing issue (never saw this till FCP 7 and I was told before it may have always been there) I knew of different screens and changing Field Dominace, but does not always work and I am starting to sell the end results and can't second guess the customers TV?

3) Compressor won't say Successful but still creates the AC3 File and .M2v. If I send from FCP to Compressor, everything goes according to plan.

I apologise for confusing my original question and I only posted the other issues Just in case from my settings it caused the other issues, since November the 19 2009 I have been going round in circles.

I also thought of the 1080i 25p, but when I tried this in FCP 5 I knew I had to get better first (different film making style to work with) I was going to try this work flow but I was under the impression if it worked before why has it changed???

In being new to macs 26/01/09 and FCP once I found something that worked, I stuck with it in not knowing any other way and this forum has helped in so many ways.

That is why I have now come and asked for help, or even for someone to say your doing that wrong.I am totally under the impression if my eye can see an issue then, I don't want to pass this on to the customer.

James

You do right to make sure your delivery is right James and I understand your frustration as this wasnt a problem with FCP 5 and now you are on ver 7 all is there to see.

I went through similar problems when I was new to all this mac and HD stuff too so don't get disheartened we will try and find you a solution the best we can.

I know what you mean about shooting 25p with the Z7 it just doesn't seem to look or feel right and I always shot 1080i 50i and then did a progressive conversion in quick time as it sorted a lot of the problems and kept the quality up without those dreaded jagged lines.

As I remember my workflow was as follows:

1: Shoot 1440x1080i 50i in the Z7
2: Transfer to FCP in log and transfer (or re-wrap in clipwrap)
3: Edit in HDV at the above rates.
4: Master to pro res 422 1920x1080i 25p via quicktime conversion
5: Burn to DVD in I-DVD or make an apple TV 1280x720p 1.5mbs file for you tube etc from the pro res master file.

Try this workflow and see if it does the same? I found that making the pro res master was the key as it made a square pixel master at 1920x1080i 25p rather than an HDV long gop 1440x1080 image.

Cheers for that Gary,

I honestly thought I was doing something wrong but after your last post....I am NOT alone. Also the jagged lines I knew this was not my dodgy eye.

In like you say it is frustrating and being new to FCP and HD. You are quick to blame the lack of experience. I currently do steps 1-3 in your checklist and with my current project I will try steps 4-5.

If I get stuck I will post again, only question I have you don't mention Compressor. Do I still have to worry that Compressor does not like my quicktimes?

I DVD to burn I will look into this, I have never used I DVD only Toast and can I ask what would you advise with my last question on Burning to Dual Layer. My Macbook has had problems since day one DOES not like Dual Layers even the expensive Verbatim ones £27 for 25.

Thanks again for all this and when I try steps 4&5 I will let you know. Thanks for taking the time. I am glad I posted my silly questions now.

James

No probs James having spoke to you a couple of years ago I appreciate that this is all very new to you but you are getting there and it is all a learning curve.

Bear in mind that after 30 years in broadcast I am still hitting barriers myself as software develops but I am a great advocate of keeping things simple.

Whilst compressor is a very powerful programme and i have found new ways to do blu ray an other bespoke things I personally like to keep things simple as I was brought up in a broadcast environment where you need to deliver fast and perfect every time with no mistakes as they are on-air before you know it.

SO I use FCP and have defined my workflows from shooting through to delivery and they are all tried and tested so its quicktime and i-DVD for me to produce on-line and DVD content using masters created by exporting quick time from FCP.

I used to convert from HDV to pro res in the ways described but now with P2 it is much easier as I shoot in 1920x108i 25np and end up with a pro res HQ master in the same format. The DVD and QT delivery files for on-line remain the same as for HDV.

It all works and I am very happy now but I did have lots of problems with the HDV codec to on-line and as said that is why I am now on P2 as I have to be across all media formats from full HD broadcast to i-phone from the same master file.

Hi Gary, I would like to say a Massive Thanks to you. As with everything you mentioned I was actually expecting it is exactly like you say you get a feel for your workflow and I noticed issues similar to yourself when moving to FCP 7.

I could not afford a change just now so the work a round’s you provided, only backed up what I knew and like you mentioned being new to this and going round in circles. I have only being doing this a couple of years but maybe when I am 30 years in (that's if I still here) I will look back at all this and say my training was hard, but I got there?

Also I worked at the BBC recently and even though they use Avid it is still as you said keep it simple and find what works for you, this backs up that since you moved to P2 and found the workflow that works there.....

My only problem now I see is how to fix my issues with compressor.

Thanks again Gary for all your help, if only I could every repay the favour.

James