View Full Version : DV CHALLENGE - Web Video Tips
Dylan Couper July 11th, 2005, 05:26 PM I've been asked by a few participants on how to render video for the web, and what sizes/compression should be used. After confering with some of the judges, I asked fellow wrangler and web video expert Rob Lohman to write up a quick "how to" for those who need to know, and here it is:
Thanks Rob!
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The most compatible and easy to use format is QuickTime. You can get this from www.apple.com/quicktime. Make sure you install the authoring components on the PC version as well (use custom during setup). Since only Sony Vegas (6, on PC) was available for testing the following settings and screenshots where made/tested with that.
1. when done editing in Vegas go to File -> Render As. Select QuickTime 6 (*.mov) from the "Save as type" pulldown, de-select "save project markers in media file" and click on custom (the default template is fine)
Screenshot: www.visuar.com/DVi/export1.jpg
2. go to the video tab, select "(Custom frame size)" for "Frame size" and then enter 320 and 240 for the "Width" and "Height" (both for PAL & NTSC).
- For framerate select 14.985 ("Half NTSC") for NTSC and 15.0 for PAL
- Field order should be set to "None (progressive scan)"
- Pixel aspect ratio shoul dbe set to 1.000
- Video format: choose "Sorenson Video 3"
- Compressed depth: 24 bpp color
- Quality (slider): set to 30.0%
- Data rate: Basic, Target rate, KBps (Kbytes/second): 50
- Set "keyframe every (frames):" to "natural only" (the box will grey out and list "(auto)")
Screenshot: www.visuar.com/DVi/export2.jpg
3. go to the audio tab and select "IMA 4:1" for the Audio format. Sample rate should be "22.050" with bit depth set to 16 and channels to Stereo.
Screenshot: www.visuar.com/DVi/export3.jpg
4. OK the dialog. Choose a filename for your movie and hit save.
These are settings we have used and developed for the Lady X series and have proven to work quite well and be compatible with most systems.
To give you an idea of compression ratios with these settings:
My test with a 21 second movie gave me a 1.48 MB file, some other (estimated) lengths:
60 secs / 1 min: 4.23 MB
300 secs / 5 min: 21.14 MB
900 secs / 15 min: 63.23 MB
After you are done upload the movie to a / your site and send the link to thedvchallenge@hotmail.com
If you are using different editing software find the export function there. Most of these settings should translate without too much trouble to other systems.
Good luck!
Benjamin Durin July 11th, 2005, 09:40 PM Rob and Dylan, thanks for the tips.
I shot mine in 16/9 and it won't fit in 320*240 (except if if letterbox it but then it will be very small).
I was thinking of using 480*270, wouldn't it be too big (but my entry will be very short) ?
Or do you have any other suggestion for the size ?
Michael Gibbons July 11th, 2005, 11:12 PM I am also in 16x9...
Rob Lohman July 12th, 2005, 02:52 AM In the end the resolution is just a guideline. Basically what you do is decide on
a horizontal resolution and then divide that by 16 / 9 to get your vertical
resolution, so for example:
320 / ( 16 / 9 ) = 180, so that would be 320 x 180 (which is the actualy
resolution we used for the Lady X project).
This should work fine for a true 16:9 project. If your footage is letterboxed
(like mine), you will probably need to crop the project to 16:9 format first
(or load it into a 16:9 project), otherwise it will distort your picture and
include the letterboxing in that 320 x 180 image.
In the end resolution does not really matter except for filesize. So if you don't
care that files get larger (ie, takes longer to download for people and your site
is using more bandwidth which may result in more costs for you if your hosting
provider charges for used bandwidth!) you can pick any resolution you want.
Personally I think 320 x 240 or 320 x 180 is a good resolution versus file size
tradeoff. I always watch these QuickTime movies at 200% (to get 640 x 480
or 640 x 360) and get a good experience from them.
In the end this short writeup was just a kick off to get everyone started.
As always it may be wise to do some testing in your own environment (say
with a 30 second movie) and see what works for you, your application and
your workflow.
Good luck!
p.s. if you do increase the resolution you may want/need to increase the
30% and 50 KB as well to allow for the extra data (this will result in larger files!)
Dylan Couper July 12th, 2005, 08:24 AM In the end resolution does not really matter except for filesize. So if you don't
care that files get larger (ie, takes longer to download for people and your site
is using more bandwidth which may result in more costs for you if your hosting
provider charges for used bandwidth!) you can pick any resolution you want.
Bingo. Preserving bandwidth would be my priority. As with Rob, 320x240 is more than enough for my tastes.
Meryem Ersoz July 15th, 2005, 04:55 PM http://www.ourmedia.org ROCKS!
i never put streaming media online before, but it was very easy!
it's always so cool to figure out new delivery systems!
anyone looking for an eleventh hour place to post their video for dv challenge #2, check it out.
tip: if your video doesn't seem to immediately load, just keep trying--my 3rd time was a charm...
i am so psyched. now i can link it to my own cheapie website and have a complete delivery system.
i love re-inventing the wheel! i feel like a kid!
Robert Martens September 10th, 2005, 12:36 PM Any suggestions regarding Quicktime 7? I see that it's finally been released for Windows, with support for this new "H.264" codec.
I understand that not everyone is willing or able to upgrade, so I have to ask, if I install Quicktime 7 and use it to compress my movie, will using an older codec (Sorenson Video 3, for example) allow playback on older versions of the software?
The whole codec-versus-file format thing has always confused me, and I have trouble figuring out just what I need to do to make a widely-viewable file; any tips on this new development would be much appreciated.
Dylan Couper September 10th, 2005, 01:31 PM Robert, we had some issues with QT7 last time for us PC users, it might be better just to stick with using QT6 for simplicity sake.
Pete Bauer September 10th, 2005, 02:29 PM The Public Previews of QT7 were widely reported to be a problem with After Effects. A release version for Windows is now out, though:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=50734
The initial indications on Adobe's forums are that it is agreeing ok with AE6.5. I downloaded the QT7 player but haven't installed it yet...will probably grit my teeth and try it over the next few days. Will post on the above linked thread how it goes.
Bradley L Marlow September 14th, 2005, 11:17 PM 7.0.1
I have a Mac and FCPHD and QT 7.0.1. The website I used to upload my DVC#3 movie has limits.
To the point: I was only able to upload one file, so made the choice to save using QT conversion, 480x360, 300 key frame, IMA 4:1 sound compression at 32kH, medium/high quality resulting in a 46MB .mov that is 03:58 min (including credits)
I REALLY hope this is OK for the challenge. Read that many will save numerous versions, PC, Mac, different sizes and qualities.
If we can't do this, but are able to post one quality QT .mov for the Challenge...is this OK?
Thank you!
Tyler Baptist September 16th, 2005, 10:57 AM http://www.ourmedia.org ROCKS!
i never put streaming media online before, but it was very easy!
How long do they host your video for? Is there a time limit with using that site?
Meryem Ersoz September 16th, 2005, 12:33 PM no, no time limit and free. you should go to the webiste if you need more info.
Jason Varner September 18th, 2005, 12:43 AM I tested a few different compression recipes but this is what I found worked best for me. I shot 16:9(anamorphic) and exported from final cut at 240x432ish (1.8 aspect rato) at best quality via Sorenson Video 3 with 16bit mono audio. This cooked a 1gb 4 minute movie down to about 145mb. Then I imported it in to compressor and used the quicktime 7 h.264 codec for web download @300Kbps. I adjusted the frame size to match the source, set the quality to 80% and changed it to 29.97 fps, from the default of 15. This brought the final product down to about 8mb and preserved the original frame rate. It looks pretty good considering and even masked some of my feeble attempts at pulling a key with DV. Take Care, Jason.
Dan Euritt September 26th, 2005, 05:23 PM jason, the best way to do it is to export directly from fcp into h.264, and eliminate the sorenson video 3 compression step... the object is to never re-compress your footage for any reason, because it ruins the picture quality.
if you want to post quicktime clips, just go ahead and use the new h.264 codec... the picture quality should be *much* better than any other quicktime codec, so it's well worth the extra effort.
the dv challenge audience that you are targeting will most likely go ahead and install the quicktime 7 player, because they are motivated to see your content... afaik, the qt player is out of beta on the pc side of the fence.
if your video clip is under 10mb in size, you can get it hosted here for free: http://www.putfile.com/faq.php
Sean McHenry September 26th, 2005, 06:19 PM Sorry but I differ. As an editor, I have to say that QT 7.x is problematic in that editors, like Avid Xpress Pro, it ties in pretty deeply with QT. It isn't, as far as I know, blessed by Avid yet. If you use cutting edge or nonstandard codecs, yes, your video might be beautiful but there is a good chance only you and a handful of folks will be able to watch it.
As of right now, I edit on 2 different PCs and cannot install QT 7.x on either for fear of it messing up my Avid installation. I strongly caution any editors to refrain from adding or changing theri setups unless they can prove it won't affect their editing capabilities.
Last I heard, QT 7.x has problems exporting various file types from the Avid interface that weren't present in earlier versions.
I have to polietly say I cannot watch anythin gin h264 on my fast machines at this time and I suspect many editors won't be able to either.
Sean
Mike Teutsch September 26th, 2005, 06:22 PM As I have posted before, QT 7 messes up Adobe After Effects, and I had to delete both, and reinstall AE. I won't be installing QT 7 again any time soon. Just so all know!
Mike
Dan Euritt September 27th, 2005, 11:57 AM as an editor using multiple pc's, i have qt7 installed without any problems at all, so ymmv... i use vegas, boris red, inscriber, etc., and a few oddball editing tools that most people don't run.
you guys with qt7 problems... is it only happening with pc's, not macs?
you can also encode h.264 with the nero encoder, it's a lot faster and the quality is probably better than what you get with the quicktime h.264 encoder... nero also comes with it's own h.264 media player.
the real point here is that the only quicktime internet codec that has acceptable quality is h.264, so if you can't handle that, use wmv, real, the new flash video codec from on2, or even the latest divx... there are also freeware real and wmv media players that are ad-free, and they don't phone home every time that they get opened.
Mike Teutsch September 27th, 2005, 12:06 PM [QUOTE=Dan Euritt]... is it only happening with pc's, not macs?
QUOTE]
Best of my knowledge, yes. It just does not play well with some PC programs, like After Effects.
Mike
Mark Utley October 2nd, 2005, 04:31 PM By far the best encoding for filesize and file quality is XviD. Unfortunately, not a lot of people have it. I've been told you can get near-DVD quality video at about 1MBPS.
http://www.xvid.org/
Keith Loh October 2nd, 2005, 10:13 PM xvid is indeed very good but as you said, you have to install the proper plugin and the vast majority of people have no idea where to get it and how to install it.
Tom Woodworth October 13th, 2005, 03:52 AM Could someone do a step by step to get video to web starting in FCP? I've got my video in FCP done and edited. Now I'd like to get the video on the web for family and friends to view. Thanks for the knowledge.
Jeff Sayre October 24th, 2005, 09:32 PM Tom:
Visit this link in the DVinfo forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47730
Go to post #8. I give the detailed instructions you're looking for. Please note that some people encode video for the web in fewer steps. I have found that what I've listed works best for me in the Mac environment.
Good luck!
Tom Woodworth October 26th, 2005, 02:32 PM Thanks Jeff. I will try the technique out as soon as possible. This week seems to be my busiest week fo the year. I'll post back after I've tried it out.
Steven Davis October 27th, 2005, 08:10 AM The most compatible and easy to use format is QuickTime.
Question: I've been exploring how to lay video into the webpage, I might be dreaming,
But is there an all in one software that will do three file sizes, and set up the video to be seen on the webpage, with play, pause etc to control the video?
I'm fully aware of flash, windows media, QT, etc. But I need a method that is quick and outputs the video with the above listed.
Like I said I may be dreaming.
I imagine http://www.ourmedia.org/ is using quicktime on thier site, it has the slider play and pause.
Pete Bauer October 27th, 2005, 12:09 PM I'm a PPro user, so can't say for sure about other software -- I'd suspect, though, that one render at a time is all most or all of the NLE's will do. My technique for video that will go to multiple resolutions or formats is to render an uncompressed DV AVI file to use as a source for all the other renders. Saves a lot of time to avoid having to re-do all the color corrections, compositing etc etc. for every format.
Steven Davis October 27th, 2005, 12:14 PM [QUOTE=Pete Bauer]I'm a PPro user....QUOTE]
Does PPro stand for some software? Googling didn't tell me.
Jean-Philippe Archibald October 27th, 2005, 12:28 PM Must be Adobe Premiere Pro.
Mike Horrigan December 17th, 2006, 10:33 PM I'm also having QT issues. I had to submit to the DV7 challenge with .wmv
The file size is relatively small (30 MB) for a three and a half minute film. (Including all subtitles and credits)
Still working on getting QT to work properly.
Mike
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