Has anyone had any success with SDXC cards on the t2i yet? Still a little unclear about the exFAT format allowing more than 4gb/12min limitation.

It's important to understand that the 4GB / 12 minute HD / 30 minute SD clip length limit is *not* related to anything having to do with the choice of cards or the choice of file format. Therefore the clip length limitation cannot be overcome simply by using an SDXC card, sorry.

Hmm. I see.... That explains this from http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-rebel-t2i-eos-550d-hd/473588-sdxc-rebel-confusion.html#post1492629 "In addition, even if you use SDXC on the T2i, you're still limited to 4GB per video due to the limitations of the camera" - Randall Leong

Also, there are no SDXC cards widely available for sale yet. There have been a couple of announced products, 64GB, with MSRPs around $350.

The technical limit was overcome with solid state camcorders and now the SDXC cards. The EU tax code limit has not been overcome. Although I'm surprised some hacker has not hacked it.

I don't see much of sdxc in Montreal.
and the biggest store of the province does not sell them yet.

The technical limit was overcome with solid state camcorders and now the SDXC cards. The EU tax code limit has not been overcome. Although I'm surprised some hacker has not hacked it.

Much of the reason for such a recording limit on large-sensor motion-recording-capable cameras such as the T2i is heat. All else being equal, larger sensors produce much more heat than smaller sensors do. This is why even the most expensive professional solid-state camcorders use only so-called 2/3" (two-thirds) sensors (the actual usable size, or effective size, of a 2/3" sensor is a bit less than that) while the T2i's sensor measures more than one full inch on the diagonal (effective size). There is no getting around the increased heat output with bigger sensors, which run exponentially hotter than their smaller counterparts. Therefore, Canon actually implemented the 4GB/12-minute limit on video recordings in the T2i in order to protect the camera's imaging sensor - and then, the camera must be turned off for a few minutes before continuing to record. Otherwise, if left to record indefinitely, the sensor would have burnt out after about 15 to 20 minutes, rendering the camera inoperable.

It only takes a few seconds to start another 4GB/12min take once the previous once has finished. There is no question of turning the camera off for several minutes (unless you choose to).

I am buying a T2i and am trying to figure out what would be a better purchase. The Sandisk Class 4 64gb SDXC cards are selling for about $219 now on amazon. However, I could buy two of the Sandisk Class 10 16gb SDHC cards for $190. The small price difference is not a factor either way. My question is, would it be safer to get the two 16gb cards, since they're Class 10, even though I would only have half the storage capacity? I'll be using the T2i to videotape weddings, and since this is not my A camera, 96 minutes (4gb = 12 minutes) should be plenty. Obviously it's my goal to get a couple more cards in the future. My other two video cameras are HDV (miniDV).

The Sandisk Class 4 64gb SDXC cards are selling for about $219For HD video recording, stay away from Class 4 cards. You'll want Class 6 cards or better.

Card capacity isn't as important as card speed, since it's a quick and painless process to simply swap out a full card for an empty one.

I feel I'd be better to go with the class 10 so there isn't any problems with buffer overflowing and video randomly freezing. Also higher densities could have more defects and lead to problems. So multiple cards could reduce data loss if it happens

EU import tax is based on record length of 29 min, 29 secs.

there is NOTHING that prevents canon from lifting this for t2i / NA cameras, except its cheaper to make one camera body for everywhere, instead of loading different firmware for different models... which of course some one would "fix".

canon could let the camera support HFS+ or EXT3 or EXT4 if the wanted to, which would also eliminate the problem. FAT64.... its just too new.

EU import tax is based on record length of 29 min, 29 secs.Actually 29 min, 59 sec but otherwise that's exactly right, and this is the
*only reason* why these cameras are saddled with the 4GB recording limit.

The files are cut off at 29 min, 59 secs of standard definition video or 4GB, whichever limit is reached first.

4GB = approximately twelve minutes of HD video (sometimes more, sometimes less... depends on what's being shot).

Canon actually implemented the 4GB/12-minute limit on video recordings in the T2i in order to protect the camera's imaging sensor... if left to record indefinitely, the sensor would have burnt out after about 15 to 20 minutes, rendering the camera inoperable.Sorry, this is not only incorrect but also easily disproved. The T2i and all other current D-SLRs will actually record well over 15 to 20 minutes of continuous video in a single clip (as long as the file size of the clip doesn't exceed 4GB). When recording standard definition video, these cameras will write a video file one second short of a full thirty minutes (that is, 29 min. 59 sec.), and since it has to downconvert to SD on the fly, the processor is working just as hard if not harder to write SD video to the card as it does for HD.

The recording time limitation on these cameras is not twelve minutes -- it's thirty minutes. In SD recording mode, you can record a single clip up to 29 min. 59 sec. in length before the camera automatically stops recording. That translates to approximately twelve minutes of HD (maybe more, maybe less, depending on what the camera is pointing at). Due to the EU tax provisions which have been discussed here many times, the camera cuts off at 29 min. 59 sec. or 4GB, whichever comes first. In HD mode, 4GB is always reached well before the 29 min. 59 sec. time limit. Hope this helps,

The recording time limitation on these cameras is not twelve minutes -- it's thirty minutes. In SD recording mode, you can record a single clip up to 29 min. 59 sec. in length before the camera automatically stops recording. That translates to approximately twelve minutes of HD (maybe more, maybe less, depending on what the camera is pointing at). Due to the EU tax provisions which have been discussed here many times, the camera cuts off at 29 min. 59 sec. or 4GB, whichever comes first. In HD mode, 4GB is always reached well before the 29 min. 59 sec. time limit. Hope this helps,If Canon's intention is to ensure that the 5DII, 7D etc are not classed as camcorders & thus subject to 4.9% customs duty then they have been overzealous in their implementation. A still camera is classed as a camcorder if it is capable of recording video of resolution higher than 800x600 & more than 23fps for 30 minutes or more. Here is a link to the UK Government site where the regulation are detailed Classifying television cameras, video cameras and still digital cameras | Business Link (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1080271909)

The resolution limit of 800x600 means that any length of standard definition recording is permissible without being classed as a camcorder & is presumably set higher than 640x480 as SD PAL is 720x576. It's not clear where a limit of 12 minutes or 4GB is arrived at as neither figures as part of the EU definition of a camcorder. Whatever the reason for the limit we appear stuck with it & I like the suggestion that the limited recording time ensures that we have an experience more akin to using 35mm film:-)

Is there a solution yet to overcome the 30min / 4gb movie record limit?

For HD video recording, stay away from Class 4 cards. You'll want Class 6 cards or better.

I've had no problems recording 1920x1080x30p using Kingston 16GB Class 4 cards.

4G is a limitation of FAT32 file size. I took a 32G SD card and formatted it FAT32e - extended. camera saw it, but still only wrote a 4G file because I think the card descriptor data may of told the camera it was FAT32, or because it wasn't a true SDXC card, the camera still only wrote a 4G file.

It would be interesting to try a 64G SDXC card formatted FAT32e and see what happens, you might get 4g+ ( should ) size files... or maybe not and its a bug in the firmware.

OTH, I shot a moon a few weeks ago in 1080p24, and got a 20 min clip. since the moon was surrounded by black, the image compressed to nothing and I got the longer recording time, but it still would of dumped out at 29:59

I have 2 class 4 cards. they often get the buffering indicator turned on in the VF, but always finish ok. really go with class 6 at least. personally I like class 10 simply to get faster read times when dumping the cards

I think that Canon purposely enforced this limit in the T2i for a reason. I don't know if it has to do with file systems or European taxes, but I would like a way to enable unrestricted record times.

the facts are the facts

to get the camera to record HD to 29:59, try a 64GB SDXC card

as for anything else, it would require a firmware change. if you can write code, understand how to talk to hardware, know file systems, know ARM cpu assembler, then maybe you might be able to DL the firmware from the camera, rewrite the firmware, upload it back into the camera, and then "enable" it. maybe join the magic lantern guy who could use some help... otherwise there is NOTHING you can do beyond what has been suggested.

Quote. to get the camera to record HD to 29:59, try a 64GB SDXC card

It wont make any difference, SDHC / SDXC. The limit will still be there. The only way to overcome it, is to buy a camcorder.

Much of the reason for such a recording limit on large-sensor motion-recording-capable cameras such as the T2i is heat. All else being equal, larger sensors produce much more heat than smaller sensors do. This is why even the most expensive professional solid-state camcorders use only so-called 2/3" (two-thirds) sensors (the actual usable size, or effective size, of a 2/3" sensor is a bit less than that) while the T2i's sensor measures more than one full inch on the diagonal (effective size). There is no getting around the increased heat output with bigger sensors, which run exponentially hotter than their smaller counterparts.

Actually, there is. For years, pro camcorders, 1/3" and 2/3", used three CCD sensors. All of the current Canons use much larger sensors, yes, but they're CMOS sensors, which use a tiny fraction of the power of a single 2/3" sensor. Not to mention the fact that other HSDLRs (Panasonic, Sony), 4/3" and APS-C based camcorders (again, Panasonic and Sony), digital cinema cameras (the Red Camera), etc. do continuous recording without heat issues.

And, as well, on all current Canons, you can immediately re-start recording. If you run Magic Lantern, that can be set to happen for you, albeit with a couple seconds of gap. If heat were really a problem, Canon certainly would have been smart enough to spend the extra $0.25 for a thermal monitor of the sensor. And in fact, if overheating really can damage the camera, that's the proper basis for stopping video, not an arbitrary point in time.

So I call shenanigans on claim of heat as the primary issue here. And if it's just getting around the European camcorder tax, why penalize the rest of the world for a silly EU law? Do like pretty much everyone else in the world does and offer different firmware by country. Oh, wait, you mean Canon already does? Then WTF!?!?

I have a 64Gb SDXC card and the recording will stop after just over 12 min. in my t2i. It is the file system that is limiting each file to 4Gb.

I have a 64Gb SDXC card and the recording will stop after just over 12 min. in my t2i. It is the file system that is limiting each file to 4Gb.

You mean GB (gigabyte) not Gb (gigabit). So your claim is that the T2i is writing FAT32 to the SDXC card? That's supposed to be evil and non-standard, other than the fact everyone knows it'll work fine with a PC. But anyway, that is the only possible way the file system is the problem and not other parts of the Canon firmware. If it formats SDXC with the required exFAT, it might still limit files to 4GB, but that's Canon's doing, nothing whatsoever is being limited by the file system.

Sorry, ment to be 64GB. I think it depends on how the card is formated but I need to check and try different format, FAT32 or NTFS and then to see if I could get it above 4GB. The card is class 10, 133x speed but that has nothing to do with the file size limit.

Formating to ntfs will make no differance. It's Canons operating system. Forinstance I doubt if you could run ntfc on say windows 95 or 98. But I dare say Canon have their reasons.

Sorry, ment to be 64GB. I think it depends on how the card is formated but I need to check and try different format, FAT32 or NTFS and then to see if I could get it above 4GB.

Devices like cameras, camcorders, Blu-ray players, TVs, etc. NEVER support NTFS. The reason given: it's too large and too poorly documented. Regardless, you're not going to find much of any support for NTFS outside of Windows.

FAT32 cannot store a file larger than 4GB, plain and simple. This is also not subject to question.

However, the question here is SDXC, exFAT, and Canon. SDXC is virtually identical to SDXC. But the specifications allow >32GB devices, and they require the use of exFAT rather than FAT32 as the file system. exFAT is otherwise known as FAT64 -- it's an updated version of FAT that very much does support files larger than 4GB. Any properly implemented SDXC device can support files greater than 4GB.

So there are two actual questions. First, does Canon actually support the exFAT file system when you format an SDXC card (or insert an exFAT formatted SDXC card)? In reality, since every SDXC device also supports SDHC, and FAT32 is required for SDHC, everyone knows that a 64GB SDXC card formatted to FAT32 is going to work fine. The SD Card Association's formatting utility will not allow you to do this, but Windows will. And if Canon doesn't support exFAT yet, they will too. If there's no exFAT, there cannot be >4GB files.

Second question: even with exFAT, assuming its supported, do Canon devices support >4GB files. There's no reason they have to. I'm certain Canon shuts off the files at 4GB for FAT32, they're not counting on an error from the file system to shut down. So they could very easily do the same thing even if the exFAT file system is there.

So, rather than just conjecture, I did a test. I don't have an SDXC card, but I have a perfectly good 32GB SDHC card here. I put the exFAT file system on it, dropped it into my Canon 60D, and voila! The 60D does support the exFAT file system, even on SDHC media. So perhaps I'll try a video test... there's certainly no good reason at this point my 60D couldn't go past the 4GB point. There's still the potential for a bad reason: Canon just shuts it down at 4GB.

The good news about that -- it's probably a trivial fix, if they're so inclined to fix it. The last of exFAT would be too large of a problem, there's the question of room in the Flash for a whole new file system, licensing fees to Microsoft, etc. They would never fix that. But they could fix this, if it's broken.

It's Canons operating system. Forinstance I doubt if you could run ntfc on say windows 95 or 98.

Exactly. Using SDXC cards in the Canon DSLR's is like putting 8GB of RAM into a 32-bit editing station. It's still not gonna let you use more than 4GB.

In any case it has nothing to do with the ability to write a file larger than 4GB to the card - because no current camcorders can actually do that (that I'm aware of). What is missing from these camera's is the ability to seamlessly continue recording in a new file - the consecutive files are then joined together when using importing software later on. This is the method currently used by camcorders which are also using the same FAT32 file system as the DSLR's.

It's nothing to do with technical limitations, becasue the ability to overcome the issue is already there. It's something Canon have conciously chosen not to implement, for reasons only they know, and which we can only speculate about.

John is correct, of course -- and there is nothing for them to "fix" here
because they don't perceive it as a problem. In other words, the 4GB
clip length limitation is quite intentional on their part.

John is correct, of course -- and there is nothing for them to "fix" here
because they don't perceive it as a problem. In other words, the 4GB
clip length limitation is quite intentional on their part.

Well, you never know... 30p-only was a quite intentional feature of the 5D, until they "fixed" that and added 24p with a firmware upgrade.

4GB file limitations wasn't simply a choice, it was a hard limit for FAT32. Yes, they could have implemented file chaining (Magic Lantern does, though not gapless, and it's not out for my 60D yet, so I haven't tried it), but that is a separate technology. Changing the current code to go past 4GB could very well be a 10 minute exercise. Or a major overhaul, depending on their OS, but either way its a modification of what they're already doing. So I'd bet on a fix there, first. No one but Canon knows. And yeah, that limit is definitely still there on exFAT.

Yes, they could have implemented file chaining (Magic Lantern does, though not gapless, and it's not out for my 60D yet, so I haven't tried it), but that is a separate technology.

Magic Lantern's restart function is nothing at all like proper continuous recording. Magic Lantern is the electronic equivelant of hitting the record button as soon as you see the first clip stop recording. No matter how fast you do it, there will be a gap. First there is the reaction time, then the camera needs to empty the buffer and finish writing the original file before it can start recording again.

Properly implemented continuous recording is more like that sexy barmaid who manages to leave the beer tap constantly running while filling multiple consecutive glasses, all without spilling a drop.

the camera needs to empty the buffer

Flush the buffer. That's the geek-chic term these days. The camera needs to flush the buffer.

Properly implemented continuous recording is more like that sexy barmaid who manages to leave the beer tap constantly running while filling multiple consecutive glasses, all without spilling a drop.

I knew that girl when I was in college. I tried to date her, but she never had the time.

Magic Lantern's restart function is nothing at all like proper continuous recording. Magic Lantern is the electronic equivelant of hitting the record button as soon as you see the first clip stop recording.

As I said, it's not gapless. It is, in fact, exactly the kind of solution to the 4GB problem that Sanyo put into their Xacti line of consumer camcorders. Pro-oriented camcorder companies understand the need for gapless recording, but not all video companies do.

And as well, given how Panasonic solves this, many users are going to screw it up anyway. Panasonic's cameras stop at exactly 4GB. close one file, open the next. It works great. Sanyo is actually stopping at a GOP boundry, far as I can tell. So sure, I import my videos from my Panasonics by opening a shell and doing a plain old catenate of all sequential video files to a single file on my HDD. Maybe Panasonic's included software does this for you... I haven't bothered. But most users aren't going to know this is necessary.. and it's not exactly called out in bold type in the manuals, either. Sure, a broken GOP is only about 0.250-0.625 sec, depending on fps. but this does get ignored anyway.

So... if you have this reliably automated and use multiple cameras, this is much closer in practice to gapless transition than "go press the record button again". In fact, it's day and night... also the reason I donated to the MagicLantern for 60D project. I would LOVE to see Canon fix this. And maybe they will, if (as I suspect) there's actually no good reason for it. Most other HDSLRs do not have this issue.. but usually some other issue. In my case, that's "they're not Canons"... I'm far too invested in the system to change. Canons can't function as "A" cameras for event work, but my 60D makes a fine "B" camera. And as for stills, I have not a single complaint... it's like shooting everything with Kodachrome 25, only sharper.