Anyone using these together?

I use Clip Browser to import clips to hard drives. In that process I name the clips for easy ID. But the PP clip bin does not display the clip name. I've checked all options and it isn't capable.
After selecting a clip, the new name will show up in the preview window. But randomly stabbing at clips in the clip bin is tedious when you have 50 clips in there.

Is there something I'm missing?

If you export the clip via Clip Browser as a .mxf (for NLE) file and give it a new name then it will show up in Premiere CS4 -

Sorry, I'm lost on that one.
When you say export, are you talking export from the SxS card or export from hard drive to PP? I don't do any exporting into PP, I open up PP and find the hard drive with the clips and there I am.

What Vincent is saying is that you can export FROM CLIP BROWSER as an MXF file - Clip Browser will re-wrap the file as MXF which PPro likes as well as the raw MP4 files. Although I don't do this - I always import EX1/3 footage like you do. When importing, I select the whole folder and drag it in - you still get the XML import errors but that doesn't cause any problems.

EX footage import is a bit half-supported in CS4 really - like not being able to do a standard import of the MP4 file - let's hope CS5 will be a lot better!

I've also found that PMW-350 files don't import properly - no audio. These need to be converted first to MXF files and they then work fine.

Paul.

Thank you Paul,

In ClipBrowser select a clip and then right click on it and select Export, then choose which wrapper flavour you want i.e. .mxf (for NLE). Now select a folder where you want to place the converted file, click on the Output file name and rename the file.

Vincent

Thanks for the tip. That works. I posted this question on the premiere help site and got no help.

Any other tips on using this? It is just what I need for using Premiere.

And what about FCP? I don't use fcp but I have clients that do. Should I use this method for them too?

Are there any drawback to using this vs the way I was?

Again thanks

Ed,

No, you don't want to have your FCP clients follow those directions.
FCP will not accept MXF files. Your FCP clients need to use Sony's XDCAM Transfer software to rewrap the clips to MOV.

Clip Browser is used to backup and organize your native BPAV folders.
XDCAM Transfer is used for MOV conversion and import.
The features found in XDCAM Transfer blow away the options in Clip Browser, and it's a very powerful piece of software.

You might find this page on Sony's website to be helpful.
Sony | Micro Site - XDCAM (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-xdcam/resource.downloads.bbsccms-assets-micro-xdcam-downloads-XDCAMEXUserGuides.shtml)

Doug

Got it. When I shoot for myself, using PP CS4, I'll transfer to hard drives using the mxf for nle.

When transfering clips to client HDs for use with FCP, I'll use the standard Clip Browser method.

Am I loosing anything, or risking anything in my mxf for PP workflow?


Also, I'm still not sure where mpeg4, mxf, .mov all fit in this equasion.

I know nothing about Premiere and have never even seen it on a computer.
However, with that said, I can assure you that you lose absolutely nothing (assuming you follow proper procedures) when you re-wrap to MXF or MOV. There is no transcoding involved. The software is merely stripping off the MP4 headers and footers in the file and replacing them with MXF or MOV. The integrity of the video/audio data is not changed one bit.

MP4, MOV, and MXF are just different containers for the same data. Imagine you pour a coke from the can to a glass. The coke is the same, only the container is different.

Vincent

Thanks for the tip. That works. I posted this question on the premiere help site and got no help.

Any other tips on using this? It is just what I need for using Premiere.

And what about FCP? I don't use fcp but I have clients that do. Should I use this method for them too?

Are there any drawback to using this vs the way I was?

Again thanks

One hardware item that has been a godsend to me is the Matrox RTX2 card, this enables you to work in real time with all your clips and also it has a much better codec for converting from HD to SD than Premiere.

As Doug points out, the MXF is just a wrapper, your files remain just the same. Glad you found the tip useful.

This is all very helpful.

If I start by rewrapping to mxf for PP will I suffer any more or less if I need to rewrap to a different wrapper later? Who knows why at this point but anything is possible. I might run into a need to send footage to an FCP user at some later point. One exampe might be stock footage. I injest as mxf but later need to supply mov file to a client.

Similar question regarding transcoding to quicktime, wmv, flash or other output file formats after editing for web use, DVD, BR DVD, etc.

You can EXPORT anything on the timeline as a QuickTime movie, that is what I do when supplying clients with footage.

You can EXPORT anything on the timeline as a QuickTime movie, that is what I do when supplying clients with footage.

Right, I've done that. But do I loose any quality in the process?

Seems like I'm going from mpeg4 on the card rewrap to mxf in PP then to mov for output. All with no loss?

This is all very helpful.

If I start by rewrapping to mxf for PP will I suffer any more or less if I need to rewrap to a different wrapper later? Who knows why at this point but anything is possible. I might run into a need to send footage to an FCP user at some later point.

The best workflow is to archive your original BPAV folders and make all your conversions from there. If you're not archiving your BPAV folders, you should be.

You can EXPORT anything on the timeline as a QuickTime movie, that is what I do when supplying clients with footage.

As Doug says you should back up your BPAV folder. My suggestion was based on the assumption that you will have edited your footage and want to deliver a MOV file. I haven't found any software (for Windows) that will re-wrap a virgin EX file to a Mov file, for Macs there is XDCAM Transfer which I haven't used but I am told it is good.

The reason I need to consider the mxf is that PPro will not display the clip names from footage in the PP clip bin. When I have 50 clips, I only see 50 file names and it becomes a guessing game as to what is on a clip. When I use mxf for nle in the download, I can name every clip. Much easier to edit that way.

Now I have an mxf file on the hard drive. Why is this a bad thing? If it has the same picture quality as any other form of storage, what is the difference?

No one has said the MXF file is a bad thing. What Doug was saying is that you should always keep the original file in tact - even if it is just for a backup. Who knows, in the future Sony may bring out some software that will only see the native EX files. Best to be safe.

To significantly improve editing with PP, I need mxf.

At best, what I could do is make one copy to my primary edit HD in mxf and a second backup to secondary HD in native EX

I'd like to hear of more reasons other than maybe sometime in the future I might need something for Sony...

In my workflow for FCP, I use Clip Browser to make copies onto two different hard drives of every BPAV folder. Those are put away offline from the rest of my NLE.

Then I use XDCAM Transfer to import just the clips and sub clips that I need for my edit. The software automatically re-wraps those clipse as MOV files during the import.

At the end of my edit, I use FCP's Media Manager function to backup all of my project files including the MOV files that made it into the final edit.

Its simple.
It's not rocket science.

So you are using 3 hard drives, not 2? You never touch the first 2 archive drives and only use a 3rd drive for loading your clips?

Actually, five.

Two cheap USB hard drives that are only used for archives before anything else is done.

One dual link eSata drive for actual editing the MOV files.

When the project is done, all the project files (video, music, graphics, animations, etc) are transferred to two more cheap USB drives for for final archiving. Then the eSata drive is erased to make room for more projects. At any given time there may be 3 - 6 projects on the eSata drive.

At the end, I have two backups of all my raw footage, and two backups of my finished project. That is the the level of risk that I am willing to accept.

Soon I will be changing my workflow to use XDCAM optical discs instead of USB drives for all my archives. At that time, I'll only make single backups of raw footage and the finished project. XDCAM discs are much more reliable that hard drives.

So you are using 3 hard drives, not 2? You never touch the first 2 archive drives and only use a 3rd drive for loading your clips?

Ed, you have to consider how valuable your work is to you. At some stage in the future your hard drive will fail you, not maybe, but certainly fail. Backing up your files is just as important as shooting new material. Ideally you should have two copies and one working copy of all your important work.

You say

"I'd like to hear of more reasons other than maybe sometime in the future I might need something for Sony..."

I don't have any other reason other than that I know of no reason why I shouldn't keep a master copy of my BAPV folder. I don't know what Sony or anyone else has in development and I don't want to be caught out with files that have been re-wrapped. The other reason is that MXF files don't show up as previews in Clip Browser, and with all it's faults Clip Browser is still a good application to preview clips.

As for hard drives,they are cheap enough now, certainly a lot cheaper than tapes. I too am looking into XDCAM optical discs.

vincent

I do make 2 copies of everything, always have from the beginning.

You mention clip browser preview. that's nice, but have you used premiere pro? in the clip bin of premiere all you get are file names. try editing a project with 50 or 100 clips and all you can do is guess at which clip is which! that is the whole reason for this. it is a problem with premiere but i'm not switching platforms, I'm looking at a reasonable workaround.
thanks

You mention clip browser preview. that's nice, but have you used premiere pro?

I would have thought that was obvious, I have used Premiere Pro from version 6 through to CS4 and CS?. I am aware that the EX previews don't show up in PP and that is why I said in a previous post that Clip Browser was a useful application to preview files. However, once you re-wrap them in MXF or MOV, then you can't see the preview only the name.

There is no need to switch platform, a Windows machine will do everything that a Mac will do and vice versa - they are both dumb number crunchers. Your skills as a film maker will make the difference not the computer.

Amendment: Only just noticed that you are using a Macbook, not that it makes any difference to the advice given. Maybe you should also try XDCAM Transfer

Maybe you should also try XDCAM Transfer

Don't bother trying XDCAM Transfer because it won't work unless the latest version of FCP is also installed. XDCAM Transfer does not stand alone.

As I said before, I've never used Premiere, or even seen it running, but why can't you use Adobe Bridge to preview your clips? Even though I edit with Final Cut Pro, I couldn't imagine getting any work done in a timely manner without having Adobe Bridge running at the same time. I don't know about Premiere, but with FCP, I can drag cligs straight from the Bridge window and onto my FCP timeline or bin.

You must have Bridge because it's free with other Adobe software. Anyone who has Photoshop has it. The only reason it might not work for you is if Bridge on my computer is getting codec settings from FCP like XDCAM Transfer does. I have no way of testing that because FCP is already on all my Macs.

Doug, I have seen you mention Adobe Bridge on another post, I have just tried it on CS4 and I can't see any previews for EX files straight from the BPAV folders. Maybe I am missing something.

Premiere will import EX files directly into a Premiere Bin, and better still it lists all the files within a single BPAV folder, just drag them straight onto the timeline. However, as Ed points out they only appear as a list of file numbers, without previews. So far I can only preview clips in Clip Browser. Maybe if I re-wrap the files then I will see a preview, but I prefer to keep the data as is until it's time to output an end product.

I use Premiere CS4 and an EX1, and I just checked something: you can easily rename the native MP4 clips within Premiere's bin/Project window. Just right click and rename.

I just tested something else: in Clip Browser, I used "Batch Edit Clip Properties" and created a name in "Title 1". In Premiere's Media Browser, it still shows the original clip name, BUT once I import it into the project window, it shows the name I created.

Just an FYI, Premiere CS4 on Mac actually has fewer effects than the PC version.

Doug, I have seen you mention Adobe Bridge on another post, I have just tried it on CS4 and I can't see any previews for EX files straight from the BPAV folders. Maybe I am missing something..

Vincent, I mean that I can browse the MOV files in Adobe Bridge. My BPAV files are tucked away on other drives and I'll never see them again unless the MOV files are destroyed.

I can see now why Bridge wouldn't be of much help for editing with Premiere. Forget I ever
mentioned it. Oh well, that's just one more reason for everyone to move to FCP. :-)

Doug

Never mind Doug, tomorrow is the start of another week.

Would love to run Final Cut Pro, but my old Macs are passed their sell by date (pair of G3s) and I am not tempted to kit myself out with new computers just to run another interface (applications and OS). Although I do have a very old version of FCP installed on one of the Macs, but with 500mb of RAM installed and a 40gb hard drive I don't think I can do much with it.

Vincent, in Premiere, you can preview the native XDCAM clips in the 'Source' window; either from Media Browser or Project/Bin. Plus, you can do what I said in my prior post about naming them.

Steve

I've noticed that you can see the assigned names in the preview window. But how is that useful?

At the start of a project, I'll have 50 to 100 clips in the clip bin. I'd like to knowsomething about those clips as they sit in the bin. If PP showed the names I give them in Sony Clip Borwser it would be easy. Scroll down to the clip you want and drop it into the preview window.

as it stands now, it's a huge guessing game...unless I use mxf for nle.

At this point I will create one copy to a HD with the BPAV folders and a second copy with mxf for nle

Steve, thanks for the tip. I was aware that you can preview the EX files in the source window, but this means having to open each file in turn to see the content. Clip Browser gives you the thumbnail previews, which Premiere doesn't. However, to see a playback of a clip in Clip Browser you do have to open it in the CB preview window.

Vincent, in Premiere's Project window, you can select Small, Medium & Large Thumbnail to display to the left of the file. Also, when you click on a file, there is a small window at the top of the Project window that allows you to quickly play it.

Ed, the "Clip Bin" you are referring to is what - the "Media Browser"?

Steve,

Thanks for that tip. I generally just tend to use Media Browser to bring in clips to the project. The project window is nearly always set to List View.

What I would like is being able to preview the EX files, or see as thumbnails, in Media Browser before adding them to a project. At them moment I can only preveiw the files in Clip Browser. Once in a Premiere project I can see the clips as you suggest. Maybe the anser is to bring in all the clips and then remove the ones that are not needed.

Steve

Yes, Media Browser. Don't know where I got clip bin. Sorry.

I do like the thumbnail in projects list. But that is later in the process. I'm like Vincent, when I first start looking at a hard drive, all I see is numbers in Media Browser. I want to see the names I gave the clips in Clip Browser.

Ed, as I said before, I know nothing about Premiere, so I'm wondering why you are renaming clips in Clip Browser? That is certainly not a workflow I'd ever recommend for Final Cut Pro or Vegas.

I name my clips within the camera, when they are shot, and I'd never, ever think of renaming after that. That name is like a serial number that will always be unique to that clips in all of its MOV, MP4, and MXF variations. I want my BPAV archives and my MOV converted files to always have the same name.

Why do you rename clips?

Sorry Doug I wasn't clear...I add TITLES in the meta data that Clip Browser provides. You can add titles and descriptions there. I'd like that title to show up in the Media Browser of PP.

I really jacked up all my descriptions on this one, eh?

Ed the better workflow would be to use the Media Browser to add all your working clips clips into a Project Bin, from here you can preview each clip as a thumbnail and also view a live preview (top left hand corner). Now simply remove/delete the unwanted clips from your project.

The deleted clips still remain on your hard drive, you have only removed them from your project. Like Doug, I always give a unique name to my files in camera, that way I know what job they are associated with before looking at any preview.

There are many ways of working with video, some people prefer one method over another, but what ever works for you should be OK. We are always tweaking our own workflows and probably will do so until we cease to be videographers.

Vincent

That is a very good workaround.
Thanks

Ed

Glad it was of use to you. I also meant to mention that you can rename your clips in the Project thumbnails, the new name will only appear in your project, the original clips retain their default clip names. But if you can see the previews then I don't see why you would want to rename the clips.