View Full Version : a blood-chilling experience...
Piotr Wozniacki February 20th, 2010, 09:33 AM Due to being tired and short-sighted in the semi-dark room (with the right glasses out of reach at the moment), I've done the most stupid mistake today: I forced my nano's power cable the wrong way into the D-tap socket on the Coco-EX battery adapter (it's unbelievably easy to do it - take it as a warning!)
Of course, my nano didn't power up; horrified, I corrected the D-tap plug (with the nano still unresponsive), and tried to turn on the camera (also powered from the same battery) - this didn't wake up either! So I replaced the BP-U60 battery with another one - and what a relief! Both the nanoFlash and camera work OK...
The Sony's BP battery proved to be smart enough and fuse out first, before any damage was done to the nanoFlash.
Dear Dan, please comfort my mind before the weekend and assure me nothing really happened to the nanoFlash (even if the polarity was wrong for the split second, before the battery self-disabled). Am I right hoping that if the nanoFlash is still operational, no harm was done? I assume there is some protection in it, which would prevent anything more serious happening should the reversed polarity be active for a longer time...
George Griswold February 20th, 2010, 10:31 AM From what I have read there is some reverse polarity protection on the DC input on the nanoFLASH. Presumably if you left it powered up too long it would fry that diode (if that is how they protect the circuit) and then the unit would not power up when given the right polarity and voltage since that diode is now "open".
Tom Roper February 20th, 2010, 12:16 PM That's if it just used one diode. If it used two or more, the reversed current would be completely blocked for no harm. Of course, that protective configuration is less efficient due to the voltage drop across the diodes. And since the battery did clear the fuse, some current would have spiked somewhere in a circuit. If it's working now, I wouldn't lose any sleep until it doesn't, but that's me. I doubt a single diode across the dc rail would be shorted by one brief instance of a current spike. They are commonly applied just for that purpose, to dissipate brief spikes due to static electricity and other interference phenomenons.
Piotr Wozniacki February 20th, 2010, 01:01 PM Thanks guys. Anyway, Bebob should revise the design of their Coco-EX adapter's D-tap socket - it is far too easy to plug into it the wrong way! I didn't use force at all...
Dan Keaton February 20th, 2010, 01:02 PM Dear Friends,
We designed the nanoFlash to the best of our ability to handle accidental applications of revesre polarity.
We do ask that the reverse polarity be of short durations, do not leave it connected if it does not power up.
Also we designed some over-voltage protection, but not much.
Our input voltage range is 6.5 to 19.5 Volts DC (actual voltage, not battery nonimal voltage ratings).
We know for a fact that 28V DC is too much voltage for a nanoFlash.
Piotr Wozniacki February 20th, 2010, 01:11 PM We do ask that the reverse polarity be of short durations, do not leave it connected if it does not power up.
Dear Dan - thanks to the battery's own protection, the reversed polarity voltage was present for just a split second. I'm more concerned about the surge that might occur - but if my nano is working fine, are you saying there's nothing to worry about?
Dan Keaton February 20th, 2010, 01:13 PM Dear Piotr,
There is nothing to worry about, our reverse polarity protection works.
Piotr Wozniacki February 20th, 2010, 01:21 PM Thanks again, Dan.
I'm now feeling lucky this happened to me during some tests of the new firmware, and not at some important shoot.
Have a nice weekend :)
Mike Schell February 20th, 2010, 03:36 PM That's if it just used one diode. If it used two or more, the reversed current would be completely blocked for no harm. Of course, that protective configuration is less efficient due to the voltage drop across the diodes. And since the battery did clear the fuse, some current would have spiked somewhere in a circuit. If it's working now, I wouldn't lose any sleep until it doesn't, but that's me. I doubt a single diode across the dc rail would be shorted by one brief instance of a current spike. They are commonly applied just for that purpose, to dissipate brief spikes due to static electricity and other interference phenomenons.
The power input to the nanoFlash has a resettable poly fuse followed by a 20V Zener diode, connected to ground. If you reverse the polarity then the Zener diode will start to conduct with about a 0.5V forward voltage. This should cause the fuse to open, until the fault is removed. If the input voltage is above 21V, then the diode will zener and the fuse should once again open.
If you leave the power supply connected for a long period of time, I have seen the diode short-out completely (I think the fuse may try to reconnect). This should protect the nanoFlash power supply circuitry, but the diode will have to be replaced to allow the unit to operate (a relatively low-cost repair).
Piotr - I think your nanoFlash is fine, as Li-Ion batteries have over-current protection, so the fault only occurred for a very brief period of time.
Best-
Piotr Wozniacki February 20th, 2010, 04:47 PM Piotr - I think your nanoFlash is fine, as Li-Ion batteries have over-current protection, so the fault only occurred for a very brief period of time.
Best-
I hope so too, Mike. I remember some time ago (before the nanoFlash), I tried powering a 20W lamp from the same Bebob Coco-EX's D-tap socket while feeding the camera at the same time. The load proved to be too much, and the battery shut off the moment I switched the lamp on - just like today with the nano. I didn't even notice any light actually, so the BP-U60's protection circuitry must have been really fast.
I have used the lamp successfully after fitting it with the "soft start" device.
BTW, it's enough to put a disabled BP-U60 battery on the Sony charger, and it gets revived within a couple of seconds.
George Griswold February 20th, 2010, 05:00 PM "We know for a fact that 28V DC is too much voltage for a nanoFlash."
I would love to hear that story someday......
Andrew Stone February 20th, 2010, 05:18 PM Piotr,
Welcome to the world of Anton Bauer (laughing). Anyone who has worked with P-taps (D-taps) has had these near-death experiences.
Some of the housings on the female receptacles are prone towards spreading out. This allows you to plug in the P-Tap the wrong way around.
If you get one of these...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=ProductDetail&A=showItemLargeImage&Q=&sku=204182&is=REG
...make sure you apply velcro on the sides of the 4 receptacle bit to keep the unit together.
I actually give myself more setup time and carry a spare set of glasses in my camera bag and an extra led light just so I won't do exactly what you did.
I often have 4 or more items on my camera/steadicam rig that require power. Some use LEMO connectors and the rest are Anton Bauer P-taps.
They have become a standard not only due to the prevalence of A/B batteries but also you can make P-Tap cables fairly easily in the field or on a set (assuming you have a soldiering iron handy) and they are a lot cheaper than HIROSE and LEMO connectors that are much better but more expensive and finicky to make.
Piotr Wozniacki February 20th, 2010, 05:27 PM Some of the housings on the female receptacles are prone towards spreading out. This allows you to plug in the P-Tap the wrong way around.
Exactly Andrew - lesson taken :)
Bob Grant February 20th, 2010, 05:58 PM This is troubling. Both the inner and outer part of the female connector is meant to be polarized making it impossible to ram the plug in the wrong way around. It looks like corners are being cut. We've also found some of the cheap plugs make intermittent connect. This is a bit of pain when it makes your on camera light blink and a serious issue when a recorder looses power.
I've also noticed that the genuine AB parts are bakelite which has no flex. The Chinese cheapies seem made of a flexible plastic which also makes it easier to get something plugged in the wrong way around. Perhaps painting one side of the plug and socket white would help avoid the problem when working under stress in the dark.
Dan Keaton February 20th, 2010, 06:38 PM Dear Bob,
All of the P-Tap (D-Tap) cables that we make use genuine Anton Bauer male P-Tap plugs.
Dan Keaton February 20th, 2010, 06:39 PM Dear George,
One of our customers connected 28V helicopter power directly to the nanoFlash.
We will be repairing the unit soon, possibly on Monday.
Piotr Wozniacki February 21st, 2010, 03:42 AM Dear Dan,
I have my D-tap ->Hirose cable from you, and it indeed is of the highest quality.
As Andrew and Bob pointed out, it's the female receptacle on my Coco-EX adapter that is made of a material flexible enough to allow the plug in the reversed position, even without excessive force applied.
David Issko February 21st, 2010, 04:17 AM I forced my nano's power cable the wrong way into the D-tap socket on the Coco-EX battery adapter (it's unbelievably easy to do it - take it as a warning!)
Of course, my nano didn't power up; horrified, I corrected the D-tap plug (with the nano still unresponsive), and tried to turn on the camera (also powered from the same battery) - this didn't wake up either! So I replaced the BP-U60 battery with another one - and what a relief! Both the nanoFlash and camera work OK...
The Sony's BP battery proved to be smart enough and fuse out first, before any damage was done to the nanoFlash.
Dear Dan, please comfort my mind before the weekend and assure me nothing really h
Hi Piotr,
Take heart as it happened to me once when I took delivery of my Nano. I had my 2 BP-U60 batteries and CocoEX waiting. Hooked it all up and NOTHING!!!! You are so right in letting people know that it is very easy to hook up the D-Tap to the Coco wrongly. The polarity markings are very faint so anyone with the same setup must take very special care and connect everything up under very good light.
I was fortunate as well as your good self that no harm was done to my nano and EX3. "All's well that ends well."
Piotr Wozniacki February 21st, 2010, 05:02 AM David,
Thanks for your words; now I feel less ashamed of what I did ;)
George Griswold February 21st, 2010, 05:06 AM I put red dots with a paint pen to make it easy to get it right. I like the white dot idea since you can see them in low light. There are lots of batteries now that you can plug in the wrong way.. all the Li-Ions in gray cases for example. Antons have an inner and an outer key that work better than the others, but they run 30% more $. I have had excellent results with the Batteries 4 Broadcast Li-Ions using the largest ones for my HDX-900, small ones for EX-3 and small monitors.
Bob Grant February 22nd, 2010, 03:30 AM Georgre, this what I'm seeing too. The Chinese ones don't seem to be exact knockoffs. I tried a Chinese plug in a Chinese socket and no way can I get it in the wrong way around. The genuine plugs in the Chinese sockets are not as solid.
Tom Roper February 24th, 2010, 04:22 PM Because of insecure handling by me, I have scratched and dinged the soft plastic window over the lcd display.
:-*(
Dan Keaton February 25th, 2010, 11:05 AM Dear Tom,
When practical, you can send the nanoFlash back to us for repair.
Charles Papert February 25th, 2010, 11:13 AM I do hear reports of people inserting d-taps the wrong direction. Hasn't happened to me yet but I believe that all of the components I use have integrated the AB receptacles. The only AB part that can be dicey is the 4-way powertap distro box, which can fairly easily be split slightly along the plastic (it's made in two pieces) which will allow plugs to go in the wrong way. I think we can all agree that while the genuine article is more expensive, it's not a great place to cheap out on parts considering the damage that can be done with reverse polarity!
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