With all of the excitement I have seen about the Canon 5dMKII, I am considering selling my Letus Ultimate package I bought a couple of months ago to get the Canon. Wife says the only way you can buy this is if you sell that. I thought she was pointing to the dog, but was mistaken! At any rate, I do like the Letus and it works very well on my EX-1. As I am almost 60, I am thinking also of lugging the equipment around and the Canon is looking much better to me if for no other reason the weight difference. Just wanted to get some feedback from you all as to the pros and cons here. I don't want to sell the Letus package and be unhappy with the Canon and I don't want to wait too long if I decide to sell the Letus and lose a great deal of money on it. Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Thanks,
Phil

At this point, the EX1 is a far better video camera than any dslr.

In my opinion the 5DmkII or 7D are fantastic tools when the conditions are right.

My two biggest complaints of the Canons are:

The very bad codec and aliasing in sharp shots with lots of detail and horizontal lines (certain shots are just unacceptable). Under the right conditions, lots of the same color like sky or lots of out of focus the codec is OK.

Ergonomics, they just are not video cameras.

I think the Canons are fantastic in low light, and the SDOF is fantastic. The lens selection very inexpensive, I have several $1,500.00+ Canon L's, but even the $400.00 50 f1.4 is great. These are cheap compared to good 2/3" glass. And much better than the EX1 lens. The wide angle choices are really great as well.

I view the DSLR's for video as tools like jib, dolly or Letus. I would never make a camera like these my only video cam. But they are a very important part of my kit, and they have enhanced my shooting repertoire.

And they are really inexpensive, plus they are some of the best still cameras around.

I would consider selling the Letus and getting a 7D or 5DmkII. Price wise they are similar.

Why not rent one with a few lenses and shoot for a weekend and then decide.

This is the kind of feedback I need. I am not selling the EX-1. I love the camera, but the purpose of going with the Letus is the DOF features it brings to the EX-1. I though the Canon might be used for certain shots and be an adjunct to the EX-1 certainly not a replacement.
Phil

Phil:

There are issues with the 5D just as with the Letus. I am 59, and I had shot with 35mm adapters in the past. Even built one or two of my own. The 5D brings you a whole new world. And if you build a proper kit, and learn to shoot around its issues, you may find youself going to it as you primary camera for most applications.

One more thing to consider, slipped my mind. Audio.

The built in audio in the DSLR's is really only good for scratch. You need an external recorder, for serious work.

I do want to reemphasize I love these Canons, but they are primarily still cameras. They fit in my kit instead of Letus or similar SDOF adaptors.

But with my style of shooting they can never be the primary cameras. I feel the same way about the REDs.

That is not to say that they are not the perfect primary cameras for some shooters, it is a personal style and preference choice.

I think it is wonderful that we have all these tools at our disposals. Gone are the days of $100,000.00 Betacams, with nowhere near the quality of todays sub $10,000.00 rigs. Or the expense and hazzles of film.

After shooting with the 5D mkII for just a couple days I sold my Letus and have not missed it at all. It made great images but at the cost of long setup times and a lot of fiddling around, not to mention it was as big as a bazooka.
The 5D is not a video camera, but it does allow you to create some amazing video, and frees up your creativity in surprising ways.
It might be like comparing a VW bus (the Letus) to a Mazda Miata (the 5D), they'll both get you around but neither will work when what you really need is a moving van.

As long as you keep the EX1, I would sell the Letus in a heartbeat. I never put much stock into those.

But, as others have said, I think you'll find the EX1 helpful (depending on what you shoot) in the future.

I agree with all you have written here. I paid like $5k for the Letus package and it is only 3 months old. I understand the Canon is not a replacement, but I figure if I used it for interviews and SDOF projects and kept the EX-1 doing what it does, I would have a nice array of tools to work with. I would like to ask where the Letus was sold, i.e. eBay, one of the forums?

Thanks,

Phil

Phil,

It would help if you told us what you are shooting, like others I have both the EX-1 and Canon DSLR cameras. The choice depends on the subject and the output.

Dan

Just my two cents.
Our company owns an EX3, we also own other cameras around the world. I have shot extensively on the the EX3, the Z1 and the 5DMKII all over the world in the last few years and have now reached the conclusion that the 5DMKII delivers images which are very cinematic and which for some reason appeal visually to viewers whenever and wherever I have a screening.

I have virtually stopped shooting on the EX3, because just like a lot of other documentary makers I find that for bog standard documentary work actually the MKII is just great.
In my opinion, aliasing is the only problem it faces, and if that is worked around then all the other stuff falls into place.
The other thing to look out for is dust on the sensor which can be an issue.
The 30p is a non issue, I just use MPEG stereamclip, the audio is a non issue, for interviews I record sound separately, and form factor wise, this camera is just great as it fatigues me far less than an EX3 or a Z1. I tend to shoot paid work with a crew of two people, one on an additional 5/7D and the other doing sound where needed.
One of the main things which I can do with this camera is shoot into the night maybe uptil 11pm and use a f1.8/ or 1.2L lens. (In India, everything is open in major cities till very late).
I do not shoot sport or fast action, guess that is the only thing I would use the Ex3/Ex1 style of camera for any more.

Saraswati Films | News and Events (http://www.ifilm.me.uk/media.php)

Hi Phil.

I wouldn't rush in if I were you. Rent or borrow a 5D and try it out, you'll find that in certain situations the images are stunning, but there are a lot of situations where it just can't cope.

Big wide landscapes with lots of detail can look rubbish, in fact anything with lots of detail in focus looks rubbish due to the terrible aliasing on anything with a sharp edge.

Close up's of faces or anything with lots of softness and the camera works wonders. I've found that I also have to lock the camera down or use it on a big rig to get anything close to the stability I can get with my ex1. The rolling shutter in the 5D is a lot worse than the EX1 and it highlights any shake badly.

I spent the day shooting with a 5D and a 7D yesterday and 80% of my shots are unusable. I was shooting in sand dunes and the grasses that grow on the dunes look terrible, neither the 5d or the 7d could handle that detail very well.

The 5D is a great tool, but you need to be aware of these issues before chopping your letus rig.

As mentioned in many of the posts above there is room for both cameras in any serious practitioners kit, but I think Paul's assessment above is harsh. If I had a day where 80% of my work was rubbish I'd have to seriously reconsider my judgment regarding tools and subject matter.
Wide shots, long shots with lots of detail, stuff where shallow depth of field and a gorgeous sense of light wrapping around a subject don't come into play are perfect for the EX3 without the adapter. If you have both cameras, use the right one for the shot.
But your initial query was about the Letus versus the Canon 5 D mk II, and in that comparison the Canon wins hands down.
I was lucky when I sold mine, I found someone who really wanted the Letus. My suspicion is it will be more difficult to sell the Ultimate now than it was months ago and will become harder still as time goes on. I loved what the Letus did for me and don't want to disparage the product in any way but technology is always moving forward and some stuff always gets left behind.

The 5D is capable of absolutely beautiful results, it also adds some limitations. Some of those limits won't apply to Phil's current rig so they are worth mentioning IMO.

I'm not sure where your judgment on tools and subject matter comes from Denis but for me it's trial and error. Yesterday a lot of my trial shots were ruined by the 5D's line twitter issue in the fine detail of dune grass, this wasn't apparent until watching the footage on a monitor.

I'm sure the EX1 wouldn't have suffered the same problem, but then I also wanted a shallower depth of field than the EX1 would have produced so in that instance a 35mm adapter would have been a better tool for the job.

I just wanted to make Phil aware of the fact that there are some drawbacks as well as advantages.

I agree with Paul here.

As I shoot more and more with my Canon XL H1S and the Canon 7D together, I am observing the same thing.

The DSLR just doesn't resolve nearly as much detail as the XL. Full wide shots with both of them show show a major noticeable difference. Same with closeups, the XL just looks very noticeably sharper and cleaner. The 7D creates a much more softer, yet "dreamier" feel.

I am using this combination for a new series of segments I'm producing/shooting for my show at NBC. I ended up using the majority of my XL H1S footage, while using the 7D for very select, stylized shots. What I find of particular interest, is that these SLRs produce fairly noisy footage as well as you raise ISO, particularly heavier chroma noise.

These VDSLRs can compliment a dedicated HD video camera very well for certain shots, but I definitely wouldn't replace my Canon XL with the 7D.

I'm with you on the trial and error Paul, just saying that at 80% unusable I'm shelving the product, sending it back or reevaluating how I'm using it.
The Canon 5D I must do something extraordinarily well or we wouldn't have this thread or this forum. That said, it is just another hammer in the toolbox.
We all know but may lose sight of the fact that video cameras have smaller chips, some very much smaller - that is why they are sharper in terms of depth of field and have detail settings to dial down the edges (so the video doesn't look so much like video).
But back to the 35mm lens adapters; they all sacrifice sharpness and a bit of light for a more shallow depth of field. A field of finely detailed grass that will show fine details on the EX camera ( or the Canon) will look softer, "rounder" and more filmic on the EX with a letus because of the ground glass in the adapter.
Often, but not always, I'll happily give up the sharp edges for the "prettier" picture from the Canon 5D mkII.
Dropping the sharpness and contrast in camera, then grading it in Magic Bullet gives me a lot of control as to how the image looks. I have noticed that when there are a lot of fine details the images will look worse on my macbook pro than on the apple cinema display so I try to grade with a true HD monitor attached.

I sold my Letus as soon as I heard that the 5DII was coming out. If you have complete control over what you are shooting the EX1/Letus combo will give you higher grade video however if you are shooting events and cant always control lighting then the 7D/5DII is amazing not to mention compact. Events clients don't really care so much about having the best codec all they want is to re-live the event. Sell your Letus.

There is something about the MKii images which holds the attention of people. I agree that it has the lack of resolution in detail,(compared to the EX3) but the images are so pretty that documentary makers like me are indeed shooting a large portion of our material on it now.
I somehow can't imagine that 80% of footage shot on a camera like this would be unusable, I actually went and shot a lot of footage back on a MK II in India(100% more footage) after shooting on a EX3 the previous time around for the same documentary.
I am not sure what it is about the MKII footage in summer in India but the highlights are not so overexposed when trying to keep the foreground and midground at the correct exposure. Maybe it is because of the sensor size,anyway....
I would sell the Letus, the price is dropping anyway....


Saraswati Films | News and Events (http://www.saraswatifilms.org/media.php)

I somehow can't imagine that 80% of footage shot on a camera like this would be unusable

Just to reiterate what I said, 80% of the shots I got on that specific day were unusable in my opinion, the 5D didn't handle what I was shooting particularly well, the 7D was a lot worse because I used it in 720p/60. I've never said that's always the case, in fact I love shooting on the 5D and plan to use it on a documentary I've got coming up myself. I'm also still learning how to get the best out of these cameras and where the limits are.

That being said, my initial point still stands. Due to the aliasing / line twitter problem there's times where this camera doesn't work as well as a 35mm adapter on something like an EX1 would. Personally I've sold my brevis in favour of using the 5D for shallow depth of field but anyone considering doing the same needs to be aware that much like a 35mm adapter these cameras come with a new and different set of boundaries.

Well, I put the Letus Ultimate kit on Ebay and the response is better than I thought it would be. If I get my magic number, I will order the 5dMKII in about a week. Thanks to all of you for your help and guidance.

Phil

Did you ever consider replacing the Letus Ultimate with a less expensive 35mm adapter, such as the Letus Extreme? You would be able to afford that in addition to the 5D. Did you already consider a less expensive DSLR, such as the 7D or the new T2i/550D?

I'm just saying that there are more options out there than "either Letus Extreme or 5D Mark II."

If you're set on buying a 5D, consider buying a lightly used one. The used prices hover around $2300-2400. I sold my 5D several months ago on eBay for under $2500, but after eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees, my net revenue was a lot less than that. The best deals can be found on forums like this one and DVXuser.com, as well as craigslist. If you buy used, make sure to get the original sales receipt so that you can still be covered with the remainder of the warranty period.

I guess I am surprised. The Letus package I have on eBay is at $3900 and I have 4 days left. I have and a few direct offers for more, but will only honor the eBay agreement. So, if this keeps up, I should be in great shape to order the 5DMKII. Any suggestions as to where to buy or more importantly where to stay away from. I understand there will be limitations to the 5D and certainly appreciate everyones input. I primarily will use this for interviews and shallow DOF shots. I love my EX-1 and so I will look at each as a tool that has a specific purpose. I found the Letus a great piece of gear and did exactly what it is advertised to do, but as nearly 60 years old, I think the time will come where schlepping a heavy adapter on the end of a camera, may be more than I can handle. I think the 5dMKII will provide me will great shots and be more manageable for me in the future.

Phil

I have an EX1r and letus extreme and picked up a 7d as B cam/fisheye cam just before xmas, its been amazing fun and used on every job since i picked it up, but it has also boosted my use and love of the ex1 and letus, i find they match up well + for flexiblity I bought a tamrac 9x bag it can hold the ex1 with letus and rails, plus the 7d and few lenses, this new setup, lets me ride or hike with and amazing range of kit, at present if you have some eos glass I would consider the lower cost 550d and keep the letus ultimate and ex1 as your main unit until you are sure. ta alex
edit
Oh just read that you have the kit on ebay, 5d will be a great camera for you good luck..

There is something about the MKii images which holds the attention of people. I agree that it has the lack of resolution in detail,(compared to the EX3) but the images are so pretty that documentary makers like me are indeed shooting a large portion of our material on it now.


I could not agree more on this one Manish. I mix EX3 an 5DMk2 now regularly in my documentaries and no one so far ever disputed the outcome. On the contrary - people are blown away with Canon shots. Granted: there are shots I reject on account of well known artifacts, but I have learned how to control them and i always shot at least twice as much then I really need, so there are always replacement shots that are great.

ON that note, I am familiar with your work Manish and I congratulate you on it. It always
feels good to see so many talented people around doing meaningful projects.

I am so glad that when I was seriously thinking about buying a 35mm adaptor for the XH-A1 that Canon brought out the 5DII. I still have the two XHA1s but they are almost never used so I will likely sell one XH-A1 & buy myself a 550D to add to the two 5DIIs we already have.

I am so glad that when I was seriously thinking about buying a 35mm adaptor for the XH-A1 that Canon brought out the 5DII.

I was in the same situation -- after trying to build my own ground-glass adaptor, I was just about to lash out some serious dough on a Letus setup when Canon saved me with the release of their 5DII.

-- peer

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I have just been testing my Zeiss lens/Redrockmicro M2/EX-1 combination with the AJA Kipro and the results are pretty amazing. This setup is not going to replace my 550D/7D/5DmkII/1DmkIV setups and its certainly nowhere near as portable or discreet, but it has its uses. To be able to get a moire free image in Proress 422 HQ and 10 bit colour is pretty amazing. If I had the money for the Kipro I would certainly add it to my bag of tricks.

Dan

I looked at that option as well, but the price of the AJA kipro, makes me think about a different camera like ex1r.. and all I need at this point is another 5lbs on my rig?

I'm in the same boat.

I have the EX1 (2 of the actually, just sold my third one) and the Ultimate.

Just ordered the nanoFlash and think that I'm going to keep the Ultimate/EX1/nanoFlash as a higher-end setup. With 50 or 100Mbps, that will be some pretty good looking footage.

I'm seriously thinking about a 5D as well. Then I can have the best of all worlds. If the Canon or Nikon cameras ever give me full 1080P out the HDMI so I can record to my nanoFlash, that would be the day I sell my Ultimate.

It's a tough call.

not to mention it was as big as a bazooka.

I also owned a Letus and when I think back on it, this is the *perfect* imagery of the setup.