Hello everyone. I just purchased the DVX100 yesterday from Promax. I have had almost no time to test it since I have a deadline on a few projects. First impressions: Panasonic made an amazing camera for the price. It's definitely got a lot of power to it. I like Sony gear a lot, but if your buying in this range like PD150 or XL1S (except if you need removable lens system) the AG-DVX100 is the one to buy. The DVX100 is a highend camera that's is squeezed into a small body at a good price point. That's why there are so many pro aspects to this camera. The other camera's are consumer first and try to be professional. The PD150 is an up converted VX2000. Don't get me wrong the PD150/VX200 is a great camera but it lacks a lot of what the DVX100 has. I have not used a Panasonic camera since the MII systems. So it's been a while. Now enter Panasonics Varicam system and etc which is awesome. I feel they have grabbed a good part of the market because they are making excellent products.

The DVX100 is now just another example of ongoing achievements in design and execution of good ideas. I heard that Panasonic had asked pros what they wanted on this camera and listened and delivered. That makes me even more proud of Panasonic.

I hear that this camera can have firmware upgrade. If so that's amazing.

There are two things I would like to see return in the 24p mode. Auto Focus, and the ability to gain the image up. These options especially the gain I like to have. I know it effects the Cine gamma, but I can deal with that. Why auto focus, well I was using manual lenses since I was preteen cameraman over 17yrs ago. So manual is first, but auto focus can be manipulated to be a very handy tool. Especially when it has the push button for quick focus. Very handy.

I am going to write a review as soon as I can test the camera out and get the time.

Michael Pappas
Arrival Entertainment
Arrfilms@hotmail.com

Michael,
Congrads on being the proud new owner of a Panny 24p. I look forward to your review.... and hope it will not be too far in the future.

Nick

please run that baby through the mill...
I'm starting to hear negative remarks about the 100, waiting
to hear what you think....
i am very interested in the gamma setup and it's consistantcy...

Mitchell,
What kind of negative remarks are you hearing?
Thanks,
Stephen

I want to hear any negitives as well. I got to demo the camera last week but didn't have the time to really run it thru any major tests.

I am hoping to do a side by side but that is a few weeks off.

Am am looking at the 100 for my next shoot, i also am looking at using it with a skycrane jr...
Bob from skycrane said his pal just got one and was sadly dissapointed, that the cam was unproven and a poor marketing attempt by panasonic to enter the mini dv market - also didn't come near thr pro side like the sony or canon xl1s

why, he did not say (email) jeez i hate that

he is suppose to call me about the specifics

personally i don't care for the canon red and i am mixed with sony

on paper the pan 100 looks like the ticket, i also like the gamma of other pan cams ...

So i am waiting to hear from bob
anyone have yea or nea on the skycrane jr or use another 10 foot crane ?? i am worried about how fluid the head is??

I also heard neg thoughts about the progresive mode with respect to image quality.... but that could be operator error....

more i'm sure

This thread may answer some of your questions http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3055 I've seen just a couple of shots recently (DV to BQ monitor not downloads) and I'm not terribly impressed. It offers an alternative to Sony and Canon, but it's no Holy Grail.

Jeff

hows the color rendition?
is it digital grainy?
is it noisey?
does it feel like a toy?
how does it focus
48 v audio any noise
what didn't impress you
and please don't compare it to a 15k ike

16 bit cd players didn't impress many in the begining but it got the job done........

please give us more than i really don't like blue green because i can't see it......

thanks for any help

i am way far from any dealer, so i just can't go see for my self
i may be stuck ordering something just to get the job done

You need to understand that the footage I saw, I did not shoot. It was viewed on a high end Sony BQ monitor (BVM14, I think). So I really can't address was this feature used or what setting etc. While, I respect the person who did the shooting, there is a learning curve with any new piece of equipment. That said, these are my impressions.

The audio seemed very professional. Absolutely no hiss, noise or any audio deficiencies.

The focus seemed fine, but the operator was an experienced shooter. I wouldn't expect to see any problems. The scenes looked sharp and in focus. But if I was told it was shot with a Sony PD150 or Canon XL1S (or even GL2 maybe) I wouldn't have questioned the subtle differences. The scenes were well lit daylight subjects. I would guess shot at F4 or F5.6. But again, if I'd been told it was a Sony or Canon I would not have been surprised.

The colors (particularly skin tones) seemed very accurate. Skin tones probably impressed me the most. Noise, grain etc were typical high end DV. Again, nothing to say it wasn't Canon or Sony.

I've not had a chance to actually shoot with one (maybe this weekend). So, the fit, finish, feel etc. I have no comment on.

What are my thoughts and would I buy one? Well, I own two Canon XL1 (an S, and non-S) and I don't see a need to sell them. I do occasionally (every 2 or 3 years) shoot a short or a feature. In the past the clients had me use Sony's and the projects eventually went to film. If I did a lot of that type of work I would give serious consideration to buying the Panasonic DVX100. Am I selling my Canon's? No way. It's a lateral move. It doesn't offer enough of a difference to warrant taking a hit selling my cameras. If I didn't own a camera and had an immediate need for one, the Panasonic would get serious consideration. But without an immediate need I would wait. I think this camera is waking up Sony and Canon and that both will have new cameras by next year, this time.

Now, if you need a new set of toys to generate your creative juices, then I can't think of a better toy. But my next toy is a plug-in, Magic Bullet.

Jeff

Mitchell, I am the friend that Bob knows that owns the AGDVX100. I live down the street form Bob Jones. He was joking with you. He thought your gooffy email with a statement like "training monkeys to pull focus" was me screwing with him. So he wrote you back an email thinking it was me he was messing with talking bad about my new AGVX100.

Scarry how jokes turn into stories that get spread around like Mayo on a slice of bread.

As for the DVX100 it's better then the XL1,PD150,GL2,VX2000 and any other camera in its class. If you need a removable lens then the XL1S is for you. But, the Leica lens is top of the line and beats the pants off all other cams lenses mentioned here. With exception to the 14x and 16x manual lenses for the XL1S. Those are good pieces of glass, as the Leica is too!

I am working on my review on the DVX100 for DVinfo.net

I hope this puts out this brush fire.....Wooosh!

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com







<<<-- Originally posted by mitchell kirk : Am am looking at the 100 for my next shoot, i also am looking at using it with a skycrane jr...
Bob from skycrane said his pal just got one and was sadly dissapointed, that the cam was unproven and a poor marketing attempt by panasonic to enter the mini dv market - also didn't come near thr pro side like the sony or canon xl1s

why, he did not say (email) jeez i hate tha

he is suppose to call me about the specifics

personally i don't care for the canon red and i am mixed with sony

on paper the pan 100 looks like the ticket, i also like the gamma of other pan cams ...

So i am waiting to hear from bob
anyone have yea or nea on the skycrane jr or use another 10 foot crane ?? i am worried about how fluid the head is??

I also heard neg thoughts about the progresive mode with respect to image quality.... but that could be operator error....

more i'm sure -->>>

that's really funny, he had me going...

i was hoping he had so trick cable push to move focus from 1 position to another. I made one for an old film camera that was in a blind for some wildlife shots.... now i want one for a jib....

can you test the remote on the camera with the jib up, can u be directly behind it and still control it???

do you have any cine "look" plugins to try on the 24p

look forward to the review,


wooosh is right - thankz

"As for the DVX100 it's better then the XL1,PD150,GL2,VX2000 and any other camera in its class."

What objective evidence are you basing this upon. I have heard variously on this forum that the new GL2 with 1/4" chips and the PD150 are vastly superior to the XL1s. I have worked with the PD150 and the XL1s extensively and like Jeff Donald I can not see any difference worth noting.

Unless they have come up with exciting new developments in 1/3rd and 1/4" chips the physical limitations dictate that they are going to be pretty much of a muchness, pixel shift or not.

I use a XL1s professionally, and in good light and conditions it competes with much higher end gear and so if there is this new camera that is so much better then, wow, no need for £30,000 digibetas.

I have looked at many DVX100 stills on the net - I can not see this much superior quality. I am not looking for an argument but objective evidence because, if it is true then I am seriously interested in the camera.

What is a disappointment, for me, is that they are still introducing these cameras with prosummer forms - i.e. non-interchangeable lenses, viewfinders etc. and not taking up the gaunlet led by Canon.

Regards.

Howdy from Texas,

<< I have heard variously on this forum that the new GL2 with 1/4" chips and the PD150 are vastly superior to the XL1s. >>

Marginally better -- yes (the GL2 is a year ahead of the XL1S). Vastly superior -- no. In this arena, it's important not to get hung up on hyperboled superlatives. Instead, consider the realistic relative differences, which are in actuality quite minimal. The truth of the matter is that all of these cameras have far more in common with each other than any real differences. What differences there are, i.e. between the GL2 and XL1S, should be looked upon with accurate quantification; that is, that one is *slightly better* than the other. Nothing "vastly superior" about it.

<< What is a disappointment, for me, is that they are still introducing these cameras with prosummer forms - i.e. non-interchangeable lenses, viewfinders etc. >>

Sorry, but this isn't true; plenty of DV cameras available in the professional form factor: JVC GY-DV5000, Sony DSR-500, Panasonic AG-DVC200, etc. You need only to pay for the difference, but if you want pro features, they most certainly do exist. Just at a different price point, is all.

And of course the question should be asked, if the main selling point of the Panasonic is the 24p, then perhaps the newly released software - Magic Bullet - is a better solution when combined with the XL1s or even the GL2.
You can check out this amazing software at theorphanage or the toolfarm.

Still wondering,

Stephen

I wouldn't put all my trust in the Leica lens either. Leica, Zeiss, Schneider are all great optical companies. But the Japanese have made great strides in optics over the last 20 years. Now, very little separates the great German optics from the best Japan has to offer. A case could also be made that Canon knows much more about optics for video than Leica. Those great big (white) broadcast video lens you see at golf matches, the Olympics etc. are made by Canon or Fujinon, not Leica.

Jeff

Chris,

Thanks for mentioning these other options. I am considering the new DV5000, but the big drawback for me is the weight - over 14 pounds with batteries. i guess we are looking for nirvana - all the pro features, light weight and low price point - not quite here yet!

Stephen

Hi Chris,

"What differences there are, i.e. between the GL2 and XL1S, should be looked upon with accurate quantification; that is, that one is *slightly better* than the other. Nothing "vastly superior" about it."

This is the point I was making - if the differences are slight this is not enough of a reason to state definitively that they are 'better'.

"Sorry, but this isn't true; plenty of DV cameras available in the professional form factor: JVC GY-DV5000, Sony DSR-500, Panasonic AG-DVC200, etc. You need only to pay for the difference, but if you want pro features, they most certainly do exist. Just at a different price point, is all."

Sorry, but again you have misunderstood me (or I have not made myself clear) - I said 'these' cameras. Obviously you get interchangeable lenses etc. in the class of cameras you mention - but the XL1s set a precedent by being an essentially prosummer camera at a prosummer price, which could act and be used more professionally - there is no reason why these new cameras could not follow that excellent example.

Regards.

Great site by the way Chris!

Stephen,

You brought up my point exactly. Say I buy the DVX100 and some support gear. Total cost about $4,000 (USD). For that same money I could by Magic Bullet and a Mac G4 Dual Processor to do all the processing. Now for me, that would increase my productivity and creativity.

Jeff

Howdy from Texas,

<< This is the point I was making - if the differences are slight this is not enough of a reason to state definitively that they are 'better'. >>

Yeah. I was just re-enforcing your point.

<< but again you have misunderstood me (or I have not made myself clear) - I said 'these' cameras >>

Well, I seriously doubt we'll ever see all the pro features at this price... you know you get what you pay for and you pay for what you want. However, with regard to the Panasonic DVX100 and Sony PD150, they are ready for pro XLR mics right out of the box... and the JVC GY-DV500 is fully pro all the way for less than $5K. And those two smaller cams come from the professional broadcast divisions of their manufacturers. It seems to me though that interchangeable lenses, viewfinders etc. and a smaller form factor are mutually exclusive, the XL1S being the one exception. Funny thing is, I know plenty of folks who think the XL1S is "too big."

Hi Chris,

I agree, I'm not looking for all the pro features but XLR sockets are a lot easier to remedy than interchangeable lenses. This seems such an elementary good idea that I wonder why it has been consistently overlooked.

In the UK I can buy the XL1s standard kit for £2350 (incl.VAT) whereas the Sony DSR 500 you mention would cost nearer £15,000 less batteries and the JVC you mention also needs a lot of 'extras' to bring it up to full functionality - but I can and do use the XL1s professionally (i.e. broadcast and corporate) and for me the main reason is the flexibility of it's system.

Now size should not matter of course - only quality of results but in this day and age when everyone seems to have a DV camera, turning up with a PD150 or GL2, however good they are, does not seem to inspire confidence - stupid I know but there it is.

In part answer to my own questions I believe these cameras (DVX100 etc. and indeed the XL1/1s) have really been aimed at the many many people making 'DV features' rather than out and out professionals earning their crust in the lower end corporate and broadcast fields. This is why things like 24p become more important than lenses. I would have no use for 24p, for instance, even if there were a PAL model, because I am never going to transfer anything exclusively to film - at least not with my own money. I would always have use for a better resolution camera with interchangeable lenses in the same price bracket!

Regards.

The reason they don't have interchangeable lenses is the cost of developing the set of lenses. Panasonic probably would not develop their own lenses. They would sub-contract it out to Canon, Fuji, etc. someone with video experience and the production capacity to make the required number of lenses. They aren't likely to have many partners in that venture I'm afraid. Why did they get Leica? Leica has lots of extra capacity these days, I'm sure. The cost to develop a proprietary lens mount was prohibitive. The cost of licensing a mount from Nikon, Fuji, Minolta etc was have not returned enough to make it viable either.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I agree with everything you've said - and yet Canon did develop their own lenses - they even developed at great cost the abortive 3D lens. Forget professionals for the moment and think about serious amateur still photographers - how many of them would consider buying a camera withpout interchangeable lenses? Though what I would like from Canon, more even than a new camera, is an anamorphic 16:9 lens!

Regards.

That's my point. Canon is about the only manufacture that could reasonably develop their own mount. Panasonic, Sony, JVC, etc. all buy their lenses form someone. There are only a few companies that do that kind of work or have the capacity to do it. Can you imagine what Leica would want for a 16:9 Anamorphic lens? I'd probably have to sell my car for one. But Canon would stand a chance of producing one in an affordable range (for professionals).

Jeff

Jeff:

Magic Bullet rendering times are truly brutal. Unless you only do very short projects, you might want to think about a render farm for features or long form docs. Plus 60i to 24p will never be the same as 24p as the moments of motion captured in time are not the same. Plus, always a resolution loss to boot.

It's disappointing to hear that the DVX100 has disabled autofocus in the 24p mode. No matter how experienced you are, the autofocus option will always be useful at times. Is the
autofocus also blocked in the 30p mode?

Just want to ask, what happens when we throw PAL into this discussion.

I have an xl1s, which when in frame mode is working at 25fps. Would then the advantage from the panasonic in NTSC really go out the window.

I have compared the canon glass, i have a 16x stadard as well as a 16x manual, i like the manual for its ease of use as i grew up using lenses similar, but i have very picky eyes and i am seeing maybe a %1-5 difference at most between the 2 lenses. And a huge expense on my end that i am really regretting now. For $20 i could hire the lens on the day i need it and no have forked out for it.

I am not sure if i correct here, but are you guys saying the new panasonic is better because the frame rate looks more akin to film, or that it produces a superior picture to the canon, i would hate to think my 10k was wasted.

kermie

There would be no advantage to the DVX100 compared to a PAL XL1S. The picture quality is not better, just different. The differences are subtle, at that. The DVX100 is a good camera. It's picture quality and overall performance rank it with the XL1S and Sony PD150. It does have a distinct advantage for NTSC shooters going to film. But for the difference to be real you must be going to film. Not kinda, hope to if maybe, one day it just possibly will go to film. In your case, shooting PAL, it's a non-issue.

I have a client I shoot for that just purchased one. So, my feelings are neutral. I'm going to learn as much as I can about the camera so I can do the best, most professional job possible for my client. That being said, I see deficiencies in the camera. Read the various forums and you'll see talk of a color (purple, green, pink) fringing in areas of high contrast (backlit). I've seen the artifact in posted clips, but not in person.

Some people are attributing it to the pixel shift technology that Panasonic uses on some 3 chip cameras. Canon buys some chips from Panasonic (XL1S for example) and people are saying the Canon exhibits the same artifacts. I will disagree with that. I shoot a great deal of high contrast subjects (birds in flight) and I see nothing to the extent the DVX100 shows fringing.

My personal feeling is the DVX100 is a great tool for DV film makers. But if you already own an XL1S (especially PAL) it is a lateral move. As an NTSC shooter, I would only switch if I was 100% sure all my projects were going to film. Instead, I spent $1,000 on Magic Bullet, a film plug in for After Effects. Now I have the best of both worlds. Interchangeable lenses and film effect when I choose.

Jeff

I just tested the DVX100 today and I think this cam is about as hot as a cam can currently get if you're a DV Filmmaker going to film or not. In it's 24p mode you get cinematic images. I did a report on it in a post called "Met a gal named Pana. "

-Vinson

I'm not biting. I'm down to either the Panasonic MX500 or the
JVC GY-DV301E (PAL version of the DV300). Like Jeff with software I can do what ever the dvx100 does but better.

Joe C.

Magic Bullet or not, you will lose resolution by deinterlacing in post. You cannot get better resolution. Magic Bullet is not magic.

My guess is Magic bullet plus the DVX100 will vastly exceed results obtained with 60i footage.