Yes, MXF files in the nF, Vegas 9.0c.

Further testing this morning (no YouTube uploads for this, though). I thought perhaps it was Dolby stereo that was encrypting the sound. So I turned Dolby off in the control panel. Tried in 720p mode and in 1080p mode, VLC can play the sound, Sony Vegas cannot.

Then I connected the nanoFlash to the laptop with the Blackmagic Design HDMI to SDI converter. That is, I plugged the converter to the HDMI port on the laptop and its SDI output to nF's SDI input. The nF was reporting 1080sf, whatever that is. My laptop screen went black. My HDMI monitor plugged to nF's HDMI output just displayed the word "un-support" on a blue screen. I hit the record button. The nF recorded the footage. VLC played both the video and the audio, Sony Vegas could not read the audio.

OK, I have done all the tests my current equipment allows. Here is what I did:

I connected the nanoFlash to two computers, both directly and through a Blackmagic HDMI to SDI Mini Converter. I had a smallHD monitor hooked up to the HDMI output of the nanoFlash. The nanoFlash has the current official firmware 1.1.154 and was set to record XMF long GOP at 100 MB/s. When connected directly to the computers, it was through its HDMI port, using an HDMI to mini HDMI adapter.

The first computer is a Sony Vaio VGN-FW450J with an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 video card and an LCD screen with the resolution of 1600x900 (yes, I actually paid for another model with a 1080p display but NewEgg screwed me and sent me this model—unfortunately, I did not realize it until months later), running Windows Vista 64-bit. The laptop has one VGA and one HDMI output at the side. I used the HDMI output.

The second computer is a desktop I built myself several years ago. It runs the 32-bit version of Windows XP and has an nVidia video card, specifically a GeForce 6200 TurboCache (TM) by EVGA. The card has a DVI and a VGA output. It is connected to a HannsG monitor with native resolution of 1680x1050. I can also switch it to 1920x1080 (as I found out during the tests), though that will distort the image slightly simply because 1920x1080 is 16:9, while 1680x1050 is 16:10. The monitor has a VGA and a DVI input. I connected this computer to the nanoFlash (whether directly or through the Blackmagic adapter) using a DVI to HDMI adapter cable.

Both video cards had the latest drivers installed last week.

Because the two computers run different versions of Windows, and one is 32-bit, the other 64-bit, it is impossible to determine whether the differences are due to the operating system or due to the different ways ATI and nVidia design their hardware (or perhaps their software drivers). However, based on the information Dan supplied at the start of this thread about two other nVidia cards, I am hypothesizing but not theorizing (not enough data to form a theory at this time) that the differences are most likely due to the differences between ATI and nVidia. Only further tests by others (since I do not have any other computers/video cards) can verify or correct this hypothesis.

Here then is what I observed: Both cards work with the nanoFlash, both directly and via the Blackmagic card. When connected directly, the nanoFlash also sends out an HDMI output that the smallHD can display. When connected via the Blackmagic adapter, the nanoFlash sends out an HDMI output the smallHD monitor cannot handle (it displays "un-support" on a blue screen). However, in every case the nanoFlash saves a valid video output in the XMF file. When either card connects at 1080, the nanoFlash displays "1080sf" at the bottom of its screen. When they connect at 720p, the nanoFlash says "720p".

As for audio, only the Vaio would send audio out. The desktop uses DVI, which has no audio. The audio from the Vaio, whether coming directly to the nanoFlash or through the Blackmagic adapter is encrypted and Sony Vegas cannot handle it, while VLC can.

I am going to continue in another message, so as not to post too-long a message.

Both video cards are a pain to configure to let the video go out to the nanoFlash (directly or via Blackmagic), but that is probably just something one has to figure out.

Whenever I connected the nanoFlash to the HDMI output of the ATI (laptop), the screen would go momentarily blank, then switch to 720 and start sending 720p out to the nanoFlash. If I then shut the lid, the internal LCD would be turned off (I of course did not see that, but that is its usual behavior) and the HDMI output would turn to 1080p. I could control everything with an external mouse. During both, the 720 and 1080 operation, I could see the output on the external smallHD monitor.

Whenever I connected the nanoFlash to the ATI through the Blackmagic adapter, the LCD of the laptop would go blank regardless of whether the lid was open or shut, and the nanoFlash was receiving 1080p input (via SDI). However, whatever the nanoFlash would send out to the smallHD monitor via HDMI, the monitor could not handle. Pressing record would start recording, and I could later see the recording was correct. But, with neither the laptop's LCD or the external monitor working, I had no way of actually doing anything with the computer, so the magic of Blackmagic failed me.

When disconnecting the nanoFlash from the HDMI output of the laptop, the LCD would go blank momentarily, then it would come back in its native resolution. It would also come back when disconnecting the Blackmagic (while having been blank all the time it was connected).

Now, when disconnecting my monitor from my desktop and attaching the DVI to HDMI cord to the computer and the nanoFlash, whether directly or through the Blackmagic, the video would not come on. The nVidia card was completely confused by the change between the computer monitor and the "TV" of the nanoFlash or the Blackmagic. I had to turn off the computer and restart it with the nanoFlash already connected. At that point, it would send all the BIOS boot and initial Windows startup out to the VGA, but once Windows started displaying the white text on the blue background stating it was loading Windows and my preferences, that went out to the nanoFlash. I was able to "hotswap" the nanoFlash and the Blackmagic, but not either and the computer monitor. Once again, when the nanoFlash was connected directly to the nVidia, I could see the output on my smallHD, but when it was connected via the Blackmagic, it gave me the "un-support" message. And once again, in either situation, the video recording worked.

Continued in the next message.

I much prefer the nVidia software as it allows me to force a resolution the current monitor says is no good. The ATI software does not allow that.

The HDTV modes the nVidia software offers are: 720p60, 1080p24, 1080p25 (but not 1080p30), 1080i50 and 1080i60.

Pending further tests by others, my current working hypothesis is that the nanoFlash can record just fine from both ATI and nVidia hardware, but the nVidia hardware is not "hot swappable". You need to set it up to the right resolution, turn the computer off, unplug the monitor, plug in the nanoFlash, then turn the computer back on.

I would suggest to whoever was unable to record from nVidia cards to try what I just described, set it up, turn the computer off, plug in the nanoFlash, and turn the computer on. If my hypothesis is correct, it will work. If not, well, we all will know better.

I would also urge CD to get a Blackmagic HDMI to SDI Mini Converter and figure out what changes to the nanoFlash firmware are needed to make its HDMI output work in that scenario.

And, if possible, record un-encrypted sound when the computer sends out encrypted audio via HDMI.

That's all for now.

I did another test tonight. I connected the nanoFlash to my desktop through the Blackmagic Design HDMI to SDI Mini Converter. My desktop, as mentioned before, has a DVI port, so I cannot send the sound through HDMI. My desktop, however, does have a professional sound card with balanced audio output. And the Blackmagic adapter has two balanced audio inputs (which is the reason I bought it in addition to my nanoFlash).

So I connected the audio to the Blackmagic adapter. This is not HDMI audio but balanced analog audio. And I connected the Blackmagic adapter to the nanoFlash via SDI. I plugged my headphones into the nanoFlash. I could hear the sound, it was excellent. So, obviously, the nanoFlash understood the audio.

I recorded it to a card. This time I expected Sony Vegas to be able to read the audio since it did not come to the nanoFlash from HDMI but from SDI. Alas, while VLC can read both the video and the audio, Sony Vegas could only read the video.

This leads me to the conclusion it is not my laptop (which was not even involved in this test) encrypting the HDMI audio, it is the nanoFlash that is somehow writing the audio in a format Sony Vegas cannot read.

VLC lists two audio streams, both 48000 Hz 24 bits encoded with an s24l codec. Stream 1 is listed as "Channels: Mono", stream 2 as "Channels: 1". Maybe the problem is the nanoFlash is listing them as "Mono" and "1" when in reality they are the left and the right channels of a stereophonic source? Though Sony Vegas correctly lists the audio as stereo PCM 48000 Hz and 24 bits, but it sees it as all zeros, so no sound.

I should add that Sony Vegas has no problem with the sound from earlier clips that came from attaching the nanoFlash to my Sony EX-3. The only other difference I can see is that the video from the camcorder was shot (and recorded by the nanoFlash) at 23.98 fps, while the computer recording was at 30 fps.

I would really like CD to take a look at this problem and fix it.

Dear Adam,

Could you please confirm your audio settings.

For HDMI input to the nanoFlash (with audio embedded in the HDMI), the Audio In should be Embedded.

If you are using the 3.5mm audio input jacks, the Audio In should be Analog.

From previous posts, I am assuming that you are using Vegas 9.0(c) and our 1.1.154 firmware.

When connected to the computer, does the nanoFlash report 1080p30 or 1080p29.97, or 1080sf30 or 1080sf29.97 or something else?

If you could confirm all of your settings, we could run a test in our lab.

It is set to embedded (I do not use the audio jack). It says 1080sf30. Yes, Vegas 9.0c, nF 1.1.154.

Dear Adam,

I have asked our engineers and our lab to get involved.

It is difficult for us to duplicate your precise conditions since you are generating 1080psf30 (True 30) and not 1080psf29.97 which is more common.

Our lab equipment can generate 1080psf30 (True), but our POV camera that can generate this does not support audio.

It is good to know that you can hear the audio while recording in the nanoFlash.

If possible I need you to run a simple test.

Could you please play back the files in the nanoFlash, then listen to the headphones to see if the audio is present.

If so, then we have (most likely) properly recorded the audio, and then this would allow us to address why Sony Vegas is not playing the audio.

Does VLC or Sony Clip Viewer, Version 2.30, play the audio on these clips?

OK, I have just checked. Now I see it was 1080p29, not 30. Another one was 720p59. Yes, playing them back in the nanoFlash plays the sound. Playing them in VLC plays the sound. I do not know about Sony Clip Viewer, where do I get it?

The problem is only with Sony Vegas.

Now, the 720p59 clip is fairly small, about 100 MB, so if it helps I can zip it and upload it to one of my web sites and email you the link, providing it remains confidential (it shows someone talking and she probably would not appreciate it if it became publicly viewable).

Hi,

our tests show similar results, mostly.

1080p29.97 and 720p59.94 can be imported to Vegas 9.0c, audio and video play fine (aside from the initial green screen frame, which Vegas is addressing and is only in 9.0c I believe).

1080p30 (true 30) into Vegas, video only, no audio.

Apparently Vegas doesn't fully support true frame rates, or else there is something in our data stream that they don't like.
Generally, support for true frame rates is limited at best in NLE's.

We will discuss with Vegas. However, as true frame rates are not very commonly used, I suspect it's not going to be easy to get this support in place.

Tommy Schell

Dear Adam,

Here is the direct link to the download page for "PDZ-VX10 Full Resolution Viewer Version 2.30" which everyone seems to call the Sony XDCam Clip Viewer", and Sony also calls "XDCAM Viewer Software (plays all XDCAM MXF files)"

https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-software.aspx?model=PDZ-VX10

Tommy ran some tests in our lab for you.

Thus, we now know that Sony Vegas has problems with 1080p30 (True 30 Frames per second, not 1080p29.97 as is much more common.).

While camera's typically output 1080p29.97 (technically 1080psf29.97), computers typically output 1080p30 (True). So it is important to know if it is "true" or not.

I just right clicked on the file and realized I already had the Sony XDCAM Viewer. Yes, it plays the sound in it.

Well, do you want me to upload that clip and give you the link?

These are computer captures, so they are true 30p. But the problem is only with the audio, not the video. Vegas sees the video. It also knows the audio is there, it just thinks it is all silence.

Dear Adam,

Tommy has duplicated the audio problem with 1080p30 (True) in Sony Vegas.

As such, you do not need to upload the clip.

Thanks, Dan.

Now what do I do about it? Is the problem with Sony Vegas? Or is it with the nanoFlash? Is there a solution other than me using VLC to convert the sound to a .wav file and importing that to Vegas?

Dear Adam,

This is a Sony Vegas problem. They are not properly handling audio when the recording is 1080p30 (True).

Since you can play the audio in the nanoFlash and other software, but not in Sony Vegas, it appears that it is a Sony Vegas problem.

You can work around it and still use Sony Vegas, or use another editor, or put in a ticket with Sony Creative Software. I am certain that Tommy has already communicated with Sony Creative Software.

I am certain that Tommy has already communicated with Sony Creative Software.

Thanks, that works for me. :)