I bought a Manfrotto zoom controller for my EX-3 last summer. I had jumpy zooms with my W/A. I sent in my W/A for service. Fuji sent me another one. It had similar jumpy zooms.

After reading some comments here at DVi, I bought a Libec zoom controller for my EX-3. No more jumpy zooms.

I contacted Manfrotto regarding this apparent defect in their product. I received a reply asking what zoom controller I had (I stated which one in the original messages). I responded to Manfrotto with the model number and have not heard anything since.

At this point it appears the Manfrotto controller is incapable of working properly with the EX zoom lenses but the Libec is. And it appears Manfrotto isn't going to respond to my request for remediation of the problem.

The libec zoom has been working well for me too.

I have the Manfrotto #521EX and it has been performing just great since I started using it 4 months ago. Smooth zooms at all speed settings and nice starts and stops.

I'll second the Manfrotto for how it works.

How it attaches isn't so great and I had to re-glue the rubber pads as they kept falling off, but the control part works great.

I did receive a note from manfrotto this morning...

"The 521EX was designed specifically for the EX-1, not, which is why you are having this problem. The product is not “defective”… it is not compatible with the EX-3.

Who did you purchase the controller through? If they state differently, then you should be able to return it for a refund."

My manfrotto did work fine with the stock lens but terribly with the EX wide angle lens. The Libec works fine with the wide angle lens.

I received a reply from the retail supplier who, according to Manfrotto, wasn't supposed to sell their zoom control for EX-3 use...


tripods, heads, monopods, light stands, camera supports, lighting supports, professional tripod 521EX - REMOTE CONTROL SONY EX1 (http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/pid/17427?livid=126&lsf=126&child=2)

"The Manfrotto Remote Control 521EX is designed for Sony PMW EX1/EX1R/EX3 cameras."

So either the Manfrotto "Technical Support Supervisor" doesn't know his own product or he's "making stuff up".

Hi Ed,

Not sure if you are going to like what I have to say...

I have the same Manfrotto controller. Bought it for my EX3 over a year ago as I NEEDED a remote zoom control really badly and nothing else I could find was available. I assumed all EX cameras have the same servo zoom drive unit (I still suspect they do contrary to the view of some of the people here). The remote sucks there is no two ways about it. The ergonomics of it does not really allow you to do repeatable zooms at a slow level. The physical design of it is so clumsy in terms of how the hand fits it. The thumbwheel also brings in another factor that when you have it dialed down to do slow zooms, I suspect the resolution of the control lessens dramatically... similar to the effect you get with MIDI controllers when you have a control strip that doesn't have the standard MIDI specified 127 steps between off and full on you get what is called "a zipper effect". Again this is hunch about this problem.

Anyway, usually with a product when you buy it there is a 30 day money back guarantee from the RETAILER and then after that the statute of limitations kicks in. It sucks to be us but I am pretty sure that is the case unless you can prove Manfrotto deliberately and falsely marketed their product we have a device that is going to go into a box, never to be used again.

In any event, my days of buying Manfrotto bobbles and gear are over and I certainly won't be plugging any Manfrotto gear in the future. If they come clean on this junky zoom controller they developed for the Sony EX series then that's a different story. Even an admonition or a valid technical explanation (that even pins Sony on the matter) would go a long way in my books.

the libec worked great on my ex1 and my ex3. good deals on it at tapeworks i think they are running a special?

As a happy user of two Manfrotto zoom controllers, I think some facts should be straightened up here.

Manfrotto is offering the speed dial, which in theory, makes the 521ex capable of the slowest zooms of all controllers, available for the EX line of cameras. I said "in theory", because in practice this also enables the Manfrotto to attempt those ultra-slow zooms, and here is where the problems begin...

As we're all aware of, the slow zoom implementation by Sony/Fujinon is far from perfect in both the EX1(R) and EX3. When setting the speed for the handle zoom button, speeds below 10 are not guaranteed to work by Sony themselves (it's mentioned in the EX3 manual, and in the EX1R firmware, you cannot event set it to digits < 10).

Add the fact that particular EX lens units differ in how smooth and slow their zoom can be by themselves (i.e. using the camera rocker), and it's clear that Manfrotto is not to blame.

In another thread, I asked sombody raving over the Libec to provide us with a clip, showing in real time the zooms that controller is capable of - but I never got an answer.

On the other hand, my Manfrotto 521ex is capable of zooming from full wide to full tele (00-99) in one go, lasting as long as almost 2 minutes. And, it's been so with 2 controllers, and 2 lenses (as my original lense has been replaced by Sony for all another reason)...

Just for the record, I have the 521ex, and it works great for my EX-3.

I don't know anything about the Manfrotto, so my comments are only about the Libec, but it is very smooth on my EX1, not as smooth on the PMW350K. It's the same zoom controller, so the difference must owe to the particular lenses.

The plug for the EX1 is different than for the PMW350K. The Libec came with an adapter to work with both. These are just potentiometers, so unless there is a noted distinction in the input impedance of the circuit the pot is connected to (which I doubt strongly), these zoom controllers from Manfrotto and Libec (with the right adapter) should work universally with all the variants of the EX1/EX3, and Canon and Fuji eng lenses.

The Libec strikes me as having a taper or curve to the potentiometer, since it seemingly takes a fairly large movement to evoke a very slow zoom response at the beginning, and thereafter the zoom rate seems to accelerate as the pot is turned farther. This is good because it adds more resolution or fineness to the slowest zoom speeds, but still limited to whatever low speed smoothness limitations are in the lens zoom servo gear drive. I have not actually plotted the ohms/angle of the knob to confirm any of this, it's just my observation from turning the knob and watching the zooming action. The libec shaft is metal, and the bearing surface is smooth and free of friction, again contributing to the smoothness/fineness of the knob rotation. A gentle spring action returns the knob to center, and there is some amount of deadband at the center to prevent the zoom from creeping.

The Libec is only a zoom controller, does not control focus.

Piotr

With my W/A EX lens, I get significant stuttering with the manfrotto controller. With the same lens I get no stuttering with the Libec controller...at the same slow speeds. How can that be the lens fault? The libec can go slowly where the manfrotto cannot.
On my standard lens, I get the same result with both controllers.

On my standard lens, I get the same result with both controllers.

So, one could ask: how can that be the controller's fault?

Seriously though, I'm not using the WA lens so I can't tell.

Evidently the stock lens was easy enough for both controllers to work. But the W/A lens was a bit harder to accomodate, for whatever reason.
Under this circumstance, the Libec still works fine but the manfrotto fails miserably.

I suspect there is a rather wide range of quality control variation from lens to lens. But the Libec seems to be able to handle this wide range of specifications. I'm not the only one to have the Libec work where the manfrotto failed. some aparently are having this same problem with the stock lens

When setting the speed for the handle zoom button, speeds below 10 are not guaranteed to work by Sony themselves (it's mentioned in the EX3 manual, and in the EX1R firmware, you cannot event set it to digits < 10).

...

Yes good points, how perfect the lens motor gearing stuff is, is probably a big differance, you can feel that the issue seems to be all about the drag and the gears intermesh and all that stuff, not nessiarily the Digital speed control junk that is occuring to PWM the motors.

but i need to point out that on the EX1r you can go below 8 on the handle zoom, you just dont see the numbers. the particular one i have works with very little wowowowo at 3-4, and i need those slow zoom speeds.

my need for a external would be more about staying within the lower range of zoom speeds, so myself or a camera person without great skill doesnt do a zoom that is to fast.

I totally appretiate everyones input on this subject. it is interesting how the Libec has used a easing or partly logrythmatic pots or something.

but does the libec have an ability to stop completely the use of the higher speeds?
meaning if someone jams the rocker down (by stupid accident) the zoom will still go fast, no mater how it is set?

Yes, the Libec zoom will still fly if you jam the rocker (or the knob), but I have not actual proof the pot is logarithmic, although it feels that way to me.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I don't put two cents into this concern that by updating the EX3 firmware you will lose the zoom controller function, but I have to make the disclaimer I don't own an EX3 either. I also don't see any reason why the Manfrotto should not potentially be smooth. If Piotr says it's smooth, I know it is smooth.

I do know first hand the Libec is very smooth with my EX1, and less so with my PMW350, but the latter demonstrates the same occasional lack of smoothness from the rocker on the hand grip as well, so it is inherent to the lens assembly, not the zoom controller employed.

On the other hand, my Manfrotto 521ex is capable of zooming from full wide to full tele (00-99) in one go, lasting as long as almost 2 minutes. And, it's been so with 2 controllers, and 2 lenses (as my original lense has been replaced by Sony for all another reason)...

Have you timed your zoom? My manfrotto, on slowest dial setting will zoom from full wide to full tele in 75 seconds, maximum slowest zoom(on my standard lens). Far from 2 minutes.
The Libec does the same thing, 75 seconds.

The speed wheel control does allow easier slow zooms on the manfrotto vs the libec. But, that speed wheel also limits the fast speed. When the wheel is at the slow setting, the fastest zoom is about 15 seconds. When the wheel is on the fast setting, the zoom is about 3 seconds. Can't have both. The libec fast zoom is also about 3 seconds.

So both controllers can do 75 second zooms and both controllers can do 3 second zooms on the same lens. But the manfrotto can't do both without the speed wheel adjustment. The speed wheel adjustment is a double edged sword. It does make doing a slow zoom a bit easier but limits the fast speed of the zoom.

I would like the manfrotto just fine except it will not do an acceptable zoom at all on my W/A lens whereas the libec does just fine on either lens

Something that's missing from my PMW350 is the zoom switch on the handle of my EX1. I like very much being able to dial in the exact zoom speed. When I saw that feature on the Manfrotto, I assumed it was the same. I think you are saying the dial selects a range of speeds rather than discrete ones?

The other feature missing on the PMW350 is Shot Transition Modes. I miss that greatly. It's just so much harder to combine a rack focus or zoom without them, and be exact and repeatable.

The handle zoom on the EX cameras is a one-speed control. You can select slow or fast with the switch on the side of the handle and you can go into the menu to change the speed of the low and high settings; but whatever setting you select, that's the ONLY speed it will zoom.
On the handgrip zoom control and the remote zoom controls, you get more speed as you push further on the rocker. the manfrotto has a wheel on the control to fine tune the range of the zoom speed. It is similar to the low/high switch on the handle but more sophisticated.

Have you timed your zoom? My manfrotto, on slowest dial setting will zoom from full wide to full tele in 75 seconds, maximum slowest zoom(on my standard lens). Far from 2 minutes.

Yes - I did time my zooms, and 117 secs has been my slowest result. But mind you - even though I don't have a clue whether these have anything in common - such a slow zoom with the 521ex is only possible when I set the slow zoom to "2" in the camera menu! BTW I must have been lucky with both my lenses; at 2 they have been perfectly smooth - the only stuttering I ever noticed has been with the slow zoom speed set to 1 in the Camera menu. But this only proves my point: it's up to the specific lens unit, not the external controller.

Just try that with your EX3...

The speed wheel control does allow easier slow zooms on the manfrotto vs the libec. But, that speed wheel also limits the fast speed. When the wheel is at the slow setting, the fastest zoom is about 15 seconds. When the wheel is on the fast setting, the zoom is about 3 seconds. Can't have both.

I cannot agree that the max speed dial setting on the 521ex is limiting. When set to low, at least you can press the rocker fully and still be guaranteed a relatively slow zoom (at least 15 secs, as you pointed out). But there are those two additional buttons on the Manfrotto that are unique to this controller; using them, you always have access to the full speed available - regardless of the max speed wheel setting.

From what you're saying, I guess you never tried that feature.

I keep getting 75 seconds. I just noticed you have an EX-1. I'm using an EX-3.

Can anyone else with an EX-3 and a manfrotto time their zoom for longest possible length?

What is the mm range of the EX-1 lens? The 3 is 5.8mm to 81.2mm

Correction - I just re-timed, and with the speed dial set to slowest, fully pressing and keeping the rocker gives not 15, but 19 seconds of full range zoom with the Manfrotto... Of course, pressing the rocker slightly gives me even slower zooms (of up to the 117 secs I also mentioned).

And if I need a rapid 3 secs zoom, I just press one of the buttons I mentioned - no need to dial the speed wheel up!

Fujinon returned to me my original W/A lens to try with the Libec controller. It did not work well.

So apparently some Fujinon lenses are worse than others and some Fujinon lenses can be made to work with a Libec when a Manfrotto will not.

Fujinon is being very helpful in replacing the W/A lens. I've had a free loaner for a month now while we explore the problem. They are sending me a third lens, they want the loaner returned after I test the new lens.

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Manfrottos note to me last week:

"The zoom is also not smooth at times when using the camera’s hand zoom. The problem is the noise inside the lenses: Sony manuals indicate that slow zooms may not be setup under value 8. (page 57 for EX1 manual, page 55 for EX1R & page 62 for EX3 Knowing that this is a technical limit it often, unfortunately, appears also at a higher speed.

How big the problem is depends on the particular camera and lens. For some it is big, for others it does not exist. In reading the comments in web forums there are different posts depending on the customer, camera, lens and the remote.

The problems persist also with other remote controls. All competitors have the same problem because is generated by the cameras. Our remote works in the same way as the competitors, but because it also allows you to set the zoom limit speed as an added feature; the camera’s problem is more visible .

The jerky zoom problem at very slow speed is generated from the camera and not from the remotes."

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My observations:

ALL of these lenses DO work fine with the "hand zoom". I'm assuming they mean the rocker on the hand grip.

The problem does NOT persist with all other remote controls as I and others have noted with Libecs.

There is some inconsistancy with various Fujinon lenses. I'm not sure how the camera can be blamed for this. I get perfectly good results with my standard lens with both controllers. I get poor results with my original W/A lens with both controllers. I get poor results with the manfrotto but excellent results from the Libec on the replacement W/A lens.