I have noticed something and was wondering if anyone is having a similar issuer and/or has a fix for this. I have noticed either on a tripod panning up and down or side to side that the image stutters. Is anyone having this issue? At first I noticed this on the glidetrack but I thought it was me using the glidetrack for the first time and I wasn't manipulating it correctly. Than I put the 5D on the a Monfrotto tripod with a 501 video head and was panning. When I brought the footage into the computer i saw that it stutters.
Please, if anyone has any suggestions how to rectify this problem it would be greatly appreciated.

I'm assuming you have everything in manual mode, so all I can think of is that if you're using a lens with IS, try turning it off. Might help.

Yes, manual mode and using a Canon 24-70mm L lens.

First, make sure you reformat your card regularly. That will allow the camera an easier time writing to the card.

Second, sometimes a stutter will show up in the LCD, but not actually be recorded.

Third, the camera will stutter, depending on the pace of you pan. You may see it in higher shutter speeds. I shoot most video at 1/60th. Judder will become more pronounced at higher shutter speeds.

First guess you are panning to fast. Try it again and pan MUCH slower. When you get into these frame rates/shutter speeds it really makes a difference. It's not your father's video camera!!! LOL

No, panning speed does not really matter. I asked the same question on this forum a couple of weeks ago and did not get an answer. I Googled this issue and there are quite a few posts about it. The only way not to get them is not to move your camera. Somebody mentioned that majority of beautiful 5DII clips are made with stationary cameras. At least I did not find a solution. Maybe somebody knows how to solve this problem. I would love to hear it too.

I don't buy the "don't move the camera" theory.
There's a lot of footage out there with significant movement: from Philip Bloom's work with sliders on Skywalker Ranch to every (frickin') hand-held shot to Vincent Laforet's work (most recently where he used a "steadicam" kind of rig on "Beyond The Still") to the great work being done on all the skating/BMX videos.
The camera seems to be able to handle some decent movement...

Without knowing more, I'd have to guess the stuttering has to be an issue of not fast enough cards or something in the Post work flow.

I am using Sandisk PRO UDMA cards so doubt the speed pf 90mb/s is not enough. But I agree with post processing idea. I did nto see any issues when playing raw files in ZoomBrowser. They only appeared after converting them in Neo Scene. Converting using same frame rates did produce those stutters but converting to 24p showed dramatic increase. Is it possible that the issue appeared because I was converting files that were stored on external drive? Maybe I should have coped them to my C drive? Tom did not mention when he saw those stutters appear (playing raw files or after processing them).

First, p footage, whether 30p or 24p, has more of a tendancy to show a judder effect. The slower the frame rate, the more chance that will occur. If you watch real film you will see similar judder. Using a 180 shutter (1/60) helps reduce it with motion blur.

Converting 30p files to 24p is a big mess, and won't give you any real decent footage-- especially when the camera is in motion. No wonder you are having an issue. Cineform does not recommend transcoding. NeoScenes 24p conversion is for the 24p material shot in the 60i stream, like the HV20. I also has some success in standard 60i conversion, but with potential problems. The internet is littered with programs and schemes for converting 30p to 24p, and none are absolutely fool proof. That is why we are all clamoring for actual 25p and 24p in the 5D II.

I've had a couple of instances of this stuttering (on pans) and I've noticed it on the LCD. I just recompose the shot and shoot over. It's never happened twice in a row.

I actually saw it on the LCD but not when viewed in ZoomBrowser. And yes I saw it in the movies but not as pronounced. But what do you think about converting it when files are stored on external drives and not on C:? Can that affect it as well?

Thread title changed from " Ah OHHHH! 5DMKII Problem?????" to "image stutters when panning" -- please avoid ambiguous thread titles on DV Info Net. Thanks in advance,

I actually saw it on the LCD but not when viewed in ZoomBrowser. And yes I saw it in the movies but not as pronounced. But what do you think about converting it when files are stored on external drives and not on C:? Can that affect it as well?

It should not. Conversion to NeoScene should not be affected by where the footage is sitting on the system. It may slow the process. The conversion is a matter of transcoding the file contents, not playing back, the file and recoding in the process.

If you are having issues, with NeoScene, you are better served by posting in their forum here, or by filing a trouble ticket. David Newman at Cineform monitors the forum religiously and responds immediately.

Ok thanks. I have to do some more testing and will let them know if I continue having problems.

Tom, this may be a silly question, but have you actually noticed missing frames from the footage? Have you advanced the footage frame by frame and noticed repeated or missing frames? During playback I've noticed a stutter during panning many times with the 5D, but it's always due to the computer not displaying the footage properly in playback; i.e. the computer not being fast enough. Those darn late 2009 17" MacBook Pros are way too slow ;)

I haven't checked the footage frame by frame but I donot think Im missing frames. As far as the computer is concerned here is what I have in my machine, I dont think its a slow machine.

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT video card
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 12 MB
Memory: 10 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz

Has anyone heard of "rolling shutter" (I'm sure everyone has)?

Is this what is being seen?

The same problems with CMOS camcorders plague CMOS DSLRs.

Has anyone heard of "rolling shutter" (I'm sure everyone has)?

Is this what is being seen?

The same problems with CMOS camcorders plague CMOS DSLRs.

It's likely partially the rolling shutter (aka Jello effect) and some good old fashioned pan judder that has been around as long as film has been shot at frame rates less than 60 or so...

I think u r having a low shutter speed prob. I can steadicam with the 5D/7D with no issues unless I run. Try cranking up the shutter speed. If u r doing 30p, tune the shutter to 60 and have a go. It should help.

I shot some footage on Saturday of swans and when playing back, I noticed stutters that seemed to be very equal in spacing and length. I remembered reading something about this last year, and when I checked back I found this thread and followed advice regarding shutter speed and IS on 70-200 f2.8L IS and 24-105 f4L IS and still the problem remains tonight- is this something to be concerned about, regarding my 5dmkii, or simply my poor panning technique or an idiosyncrasy of the cmos sensor. Manual everything on the camera. Thanks in advance, Bill. Sandisk Extreme 60MBs brand new 8GB

Bill, make sure your IS is always off! See if that helps :-)

I think this discussion will be enhanced by posting some of the video for download or to watch.

It is tough to describe stutter or judder.

Guys, I think I may have stumbled on a reason for my "stutters"- when I went to cut movie to upload, the only editing package I have is zoombrowser, and the little "cut movie" screen came up and the video played back perfectly-when I made it full screen the shudders returned. Maybe my machine is just not up to playing back raw files, so my next move will be to play them on a more powerful machine and see if that does the trick- as is painfully obvious I am a complete novice at this video stuff, but I avidly read this forum and I will get better! Thanks for your advice, Bill.

Ah yes, the age old graphics card issue... very well could be that your graphics card isn't handling full screen playback well. Let us know what your findings are!

Best of luck man.

Today I did some test shooting and got four-frame "stutters" during a walking pan. The image freezes momentarily on the LCD and the lens (24-105 f/4 IS) made a "squeak" like the IS or USM servos twitching.

The freeze/stutter was fairly repeatable, happening at roughly the same places during the walking shot, whether the lens was in AF or M, IS on or off. In all cases, I'm starting to come 'round a corner from an area of relative darkness to an area flooded with sunlight.

Playing back the camera-original file frame-by-frame on a MacBook Pro shows that each stutter consists of a single frame repeated four times, repeated right down to the captured chroma noise. There is audio through the freeze (e.g., the IS servo) but the servo "squeak" was not recorded.

30 fps 1080, 5D Mk II firmware 1.2.4.

8 GB Lexar 133x (20MB/sec) CF card, which may be the root of the problem; faster, UDMA-capable cards are said by some to be a solution.

How does this match up with what you're seeing on your stutters?

Adam -

My cam did the same thing; "the four frame stutters". My cards: Lexar 300x 8gb, clean and completely formatted. Len's utiized: 16-35, 70-200 (IS was off when shooting).

This is not the film panning "Judder"; but like you stated actual missing or repeating frames, hence "Stutters".

This happens at all camera setting combination's.

Maybe the new firmware that just was released will help resolve this.

I've done more testing (with firmware 2.0.3 installed) and have more info.

I tried with a Sigma 50mm f/1.4 prime, and got the same "squeak" (or "chunk") sound--turns out it's the aperture stepping from value to value. If I have the camera in P or Tv modes, I'll get the squeak/chunk whenever the aperture steps, and I'll get a four-frame-freeze whenever it happens. If I'm recording, I get it recorded, minus the sound of the aperture servo; if I'm just in live view, I can see it freeze on the LCD.

So far, I haven't been able to make it happen in Av or M modes. If I manually change the aperture, I'll both see it and hear it in the recorded clip, but I don't get any drops or freezes.

If this behavior is consistent, then what I saw in my tests yesterday wasn't the panning per se that caused the stutter, so much as the exposure change panning between lighter and darker areas causing the aperture to auto-adjust, and for whatever reason the camera skips three frames of new data when this occurs.

It's just as well that I plan to shoot in M mode, eh?

Adam,

I would recommend shooting Tv mode after pressing the AE Lock (*) button. That should stop your aperture from hunting around. I see this as the "News At 11:00" mode... I'm driving along. I see something newsworthy. I grab the camera. Set the WB to the nearest preset. Choose Tv. Select 1/50 or 1/60 as appropriate. Record. Press (*) to lock the exposure. Use exposure offset, if needed. Sell footage to national news outlets. Use proceeds to buy additional camera gear. ;)

Adam,

I would recommend shooting Tv mode after pressing the AE Lock (*) button. That should stop your aperture from hunting around. I see this as the "News At 11:00" mode... I'm driving along. I see something newsworthy. I grab the camera. Set the WB to the nearest preset. Choose Tv. Select 1/50 or 1/60 as appropriate. Record. Press (*) to lock the exposure. Use exposure offset, if needed. Sell footage to national news outlets. Use proceeds to buy additional camera gear. ;)

The funny thing is, last night after upgrading my firmware, I was experimenting doing exactly what you mention above, thinking that this might be my new run-n-gun approach... When my wife got home, opened the garage and drove in. I, of course, filmed that, and lo and behold, I got two different instances of the 3-4 frame duplicate/dropframe phenomenon during the pan where I followed the car into the garage.

I've verified that this is NOT stutter, when stepping through the original footage in the 5D2 mov file, there were two different spots where a single frame was repeated for 3 or 4 frames. I've seen this before on occasion, but I thought it was always related to aperture change. Last night though, I swear I had exposure lock on (and my metering timer is set to 30 minutes), but maybe it reset after goofing with it right before she came in, can't be sure. But, it's a little troubling for me -- I sure hope it's only an aperture thing.

One thing is for certain, and I've seen other references on the Net, the 5D2 is definitely capable of repeating frames. Now I'm sure a lot of the stuttering reports are bad playback systems, but I for one have seen the repeated frames with my own eyes while stepping frame-by-frame. Anyone have any other experience with this, insights?

Tom, a quick test to see if it is your PC/laptop that is not fast enough and causing the problem viewing full-rez 5D files is to edit a short clip section and then convert to 720P. If the 720P clip then runs smoothly it is more than likely that you need a more powerful computer.

I have an 8 core Mac Pro with 16GB of ram that will sometimes stutter on these files and also high bit rate mpeg 2 files. Turns out, it is a Quicktime problem as the files play perfectly smooth in vlc player.




ash =o)

I too have a MacPro with the same config. (2) 2.26ghz, 16gb RAM, w/ATI 4870HD, OS 10.6.2.

I find QT plays it back the smoothest ..... but just on the Mac side. QT, WMP and VLC on the Windows side is not smooth playback for these 5D2 files...at least for me.

But regarding the main issue here of the "dropped/repeated" frames; it does happen primarily when there is a change in exposure. Sometimes even when set to manual everything (Aperture, Shutter, ISO) when panning it happens too.

I used the exact same CF cards (reformatted of course) and went to Fry's to test shoot with the 7D; and tried to repeat what the 5D2 was doing; it didn't. No dropped/skipped frames whatsoever at any setting/configuration.

Hopefully the new T2i won't have any of these issues either...even though it utilizes the SD cards instead of CF cards.

I'm betting it could be Rolling Shutter, if it's a CMOS or non-Global shutter, or could it be uploading it to the internet causes the problem. Before I finalize my XHA1 footage in Premier Pro and process it through Encore, I get some of the skips of the footage, especially on panning, but once I send it to Blu Ray, it seems ok. One case in point, to be more specific, is the You Tube video review of the Sony HXR nx30 , by the Video Whisperer. I love that camera, and his reviews, but as I'm watching the footage, I can't help but notice some of that skipping video now and then in the background, especially. Man, that's annoying to me, and could be a deal breaker for me, whether to buy that camera or not. Marc Trainor.