Tracking in AE definitely takes a lot of time and patience - I'll never handhold again if I don't really, absolutely have to. I've spent quite enough time watching my track point wander off screen every few seconds!

Having not even paid my bill for my almost 3 week old 7d, I am waiting to hear why the t2i is not a better option for shooting HD video. Heck, I want to hear why it is not a better option for stills. I'm just saying I really broke the bank to get the 7D but it was the least expensive option for 1080p24 video.....now.......ouch.

I hear that, Marty.
Got my 7D last Monday. *sigh*
I do like the build quality though and the screen on top, but is that worth $800? I'm trying to convince myself it is:)

Is it just me... or do the sample 550D HD video (and stills) made available today look a little soft? (compared to the twice as expensive 7D).

Thought it looked soft, but didn't know if it might be the YouTube compression?

You could well be right - and it may be no bad thing for reducing moire etc. in video even if it was not just YT compression - but the still picture samples on the DP review do look soft too (compared to what I'm used to seeing with my 7D and Canon 17-55mm F2.8 EF-S). Colours look great!

This is an easy sell for me, so long as I can get more for my 7D body than it costs to get a 550D new.

Also means I can get rid of those damned CF cards which cost way too much, and replace them with the same SD cards I use in my Point and shoot still, my video camera, both my crash cameras, both of my audio recorders, and for which my laptop has a dedicated slot.

Heck, I want to hear why it is not a better option for stills.


The 7D has a host of still photography features that the T2i lacks, including build, frame rates, and more.


I'm just saying I really broke the bank to get the 7D but it was the least expensive option for 1080p24 video.....now.......ouch.

Well, you might not feel so great, but Canon loves you. :)

Is it just me... or do the sample 550D HD video (and stills) made available today look a little soft? (compared to the twice as expensive 7D).

Well for the stills images on dpreview 128230 and 128242 they are using a 15-85mm lens at F8 and F10. Now if I understand correctly diffraction can affect sharpness. The T1i diffracts at f/7.6. Now this camera has a 18mpx sensor so the diffraction starts around the same as the 7D at f/6.8. The 5D II a full sensor diffracts at f/10.3. My point is this that it's possible the softness is a result of the diffracting happening and not using a nice lens as the 17-55mm IS

Lets remember here... 1080p24 VDSLR video just got into the sub 1K realm...

Truly something most people will appreciate. Just imagine getting this quality at this price even a year ago!

That is very impressive... But I makes me feel like there's a catch somewhere... What have they left out to get it in that price range? Don't get me wrong, if it's as good as it looks I'm getting one straight away! My guess is that it's going to make a great B camera, although I think the 7D will stand strong as a Principle camera. Just my gut feeling.

I suppose its all very clever.
They'll sell one or two to everyone who just bought a 7d for video.
Then blow it all out of the water with the new codec in a while more.

Hard to believe Nikon are left in the dust so much.
Now I dont regret jumpin ship at all.

It's funny though...Nikon really had the chance to dominate this DSLR/Video thingy. But it's as if they are ignoring this particular market. I understand that we make up only a fraction of the market...but look at its competitors....gaining new fans. For example....I've never owned a DSLR in my life...not before buying my 7D a month or so ago. I wonder how many of me are out there that Nikon missed the boat with?

Thats very true Ian. And how many young newbies will choose Canon over Nikon as their starter camera now?
So many knock on effects of this bold behaviour from Canon.

Canon seem to have a much better marketing team altogether.
They got in among the forums and listened to what people were looking for.
They invited many different sector of professionals to use their gear and indeed
promote it as a result.

It's funny though...Nikon really had the chance to dominate this DSLR/Video thingy. But it's as if they are ignoring this particular market. I understand that we make up only a fraction of the market...but look at its competitors....gaining new fans. For example....I've never owned a DSLR in my life...not before buying my 7D a month or so ago. I wonder how many of me are out there that Nikon missed the boat with?


Even worse I had never used any DSLR other than Nikon until the 7D came along and now I see no reason to go back.... Unless they are the ones that are really developing the Scarlet......

I agree Chris (about the new HV20 Coup). What I don't understand is why other manufacturers, like Nikon, don't respond to this. Canon keeps "one-upping" everyone else. Not that I'm complaining though (I love my 7D).

Ian, I think the reason why Nikon and Sony can't step up is because of the way they designed their sensors. I think they did a great job in the read out as far as photo goes. But the video readout is not efficient or entails compromises.

Unless they change the design or do some upgrades, I don't think Sony et al will be able to keep up. One thing is certain now, Canon is really pushing hard and upping the ante. They are really making it difficult for their competitors.

In the end, this is nothing but good for us consumers regardless of brand loyalty or preference. It will just mean that we will get more for our money. These are exciting times indeed!

For example....I've never owned a DSLR in my life...not before buying my 7D a month or so ago. I wonder how many of me are out there that Nikon missed the boat with?

I'll second that: First time D/SLR owner. And to boot, I've used it as an excuse to get into still photography as well (i bet a lot of you have as well). So, basically, i'm using Canon. Even if Nikon/Sony/etc were to come out with an equal quality camera, sorry, i have a Canon glass, batteries, accessories, etc!

What's dissappointing is that competition makes great innovation.

No Lamborghini without Ferrari...both fine cams...er...cars. CARS!!

I was all set to grab a 7D as soon as possible but this is just great news! As an entry level cam to learn the ropes on the DSLR front I am very eager to see some hands on reactions from early adopters. (adapters?)
I have never owned a DSLR before, tho I have 16 yrs of Video experience.... It truly is a great day and age we are living in eh?
:o)

They got in among the forums and listened to what people were looking for.

Maybe, either that, or they were hit over the head by the forums, LOL.

i have a silly selfish worry that the film look that these things can give and the wow factor it can bring when others (and clients!) see the video is going to become quite everyday and i'll have to work much harder to please!

on the other hand video skills will always come from the operator and a cheap camera with huge potential wont necessarily produce greatness in the wrong hands..

in any case i plan on taking advantage of the wow factor as much as possible while it still exists!

Hey!! another killer aspect if its true:

"The 550D camera can record to SDXC cards which are now FAT32 cards causing the 4gig 12min video recoding limitation. Come Spring 2010 in the US then the SDXC cards are unleashed to exFAT and the limitations are lifted."

Can anyone confirm this???! This could really open up possibilities!

I can't actually confirm that and sign it in blood, but that's the general idea, yes.

BUT IIRC, there's another limitation - one of those silly legal/marketing limitations, that if it can record more than 29 mins of video the camera is classed as a camcorder and gets more tax in certain markets. Just like the JVC HD100 had a version which didn't have firewire input, just FW out, saving about £300.

On a separate note, the 550 has a 95% screen, albeit a big one. The 7D has a 100% screen. The irritation of careful framing at shoot time vs edit time spent matting out the lamp stand or zooming up to get rid of the cable may be worth the extra £300 in the long term. Also, if one bought a 550 now, and got a 7D later, that would be two lots of batteries, two lots of cards. Why not start out as one means to go on?

Would the extra build quality, the 100% screen, the existing ecosystem, be worth the £300 extra amortised over a 24 month working life? I do feel that Canon's been quite clever with that 95% screen. It will separate the market quite nicely.

Since there is no specific section for it and it's similar to the 7D... here goes. Anyone shoot any HD 24P video with this camera? Is it's video quality comparable to the 7D? I know it's a cheaper camera but how well does it compare? Any sample video? Is the 24P native? How are the manual controls?

true.. but 30 minutes certainly beats 12 and would presumably be a pretty easy fix if there ever was some kind of magic lantern hack (or just by buying a body outside europe)

I'm very curious about this myself. I just went onto Canon's website and I saw the new T2i. It must have just come out not too long ago.

Any information would be awesome. Is the DoF comparable to the 7D? That's the biggest plus for the 7D is its film like DoF which is INCREDIBLE. How does the T2i compare?

On a separate note, the 550 has a 95% screen, albeit a big one. The 7D has a 100% screen....


That's the optical viewfinder you're referrring to. On either HDSLR they are going to be utterly blind while shooting video - that pesky reflex mirror gets in the way. That applies to the 5DM2 and 1DM4 as well. Which is why the Zacuto and CAVision LCD Viewfinders/Magnifiers are so popular with all these cameras, something I don't expect to change.

Let me get this straight - because this is important for me (the difference between buying a 7D and the 550 in fact).

The LCD screen (live video) is 100% on both cameras?

I've assumed that I'll be buying a viewfinder in any case.

Here is an offical Canon T2i (550D) Video:
YouTube - Canon EOS 550D sample video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f7l-Z4NF70)

Truely have the T2i the same DoF because the camera have the same sensor size (APS-C) like the 7D.


Daniel von Euw

(...)The irritation of careful framing at shoot time vs edit time spent matting out the lamp stand or zooming up to get rid of the cable may be worth the extra £300 in the long term. (...)

I think the 5/7D footage crops rather well, a little anyways.

I notice that the cheaper 550D/T2i has a few improved options over the 7D, such as more screen pixels, more ISO Exposure compensation to -+5.0 EV etc while keeping important aspects such as stereo mic and manual aperture/shutter speed in video mode etc.

Obviously there has to be some sacrifice, such as less pop-flash coverage, slower high-speed continuous frames etc. I'm not sure if the BG-E8 ups the frame rate slightly, but I doubt it.

Probably the biggest difference is build quality and weather sealing. A big plus for the 7D...although you could always buy a couple of the lightweight 550Ds and keep one as a spare.

On the 5D Mark II front (taking into account how much Canon is improving video options in every DSLR update)...I can bet that the eventual 5d Mark III will offer a lot more in terms of improvements at a similar price level when compared to an older 5D Mark II with 2010 firmware update.

I would think that a viewer would see no real visible difference in actual video quality between the 7D & 550D/T2i shot with the same lenses, so really it all boils down to if you require better build quality and faster high-speed continuous rates for still images.

I already own a 5DII but have been tempted to buy a 7D for the 24/25fps 720p50 plus the longer reach of the crop sensor turning my 200mm into a 300mm equivalent. Looking at the specs on this camera for video it looks like I was wise not to jump in immediately & buy a 7D as it appears to do all I want at half the price.

Really excited about the full features of this camera at it's price point!! Is there still the 12 min. recording limitation with this?? will this limitation be lifted when exFAT compact flash cards are introduced??

Yes and no. Yes the recording time limit is the same, and no, the limit will not be lifted because it does not relate to exFAT compact flash cards or any other card.

Let me get this straight - because this is important for me (the difference between buying a 7D and the 550 in fact).

The LCD screen (live video) is 100% on both cameras?

I've assumed that I'll be buying a viewfinder in any case.


LiveView, which is fed by the sensor, isn't going to care much about what's going on in the viewfinder optical path. I would be shocked if LiveView wasn't 100%.

If someone knows/has seen where it says different, I am more than willing to be proved wrong, even if the news is bad.

Looking at the sample video YouTube - Canon EOS 550D sample video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f7l-Z4NF70) can someone comment on the quality versus the Panasonic GH1? There's quite a lot of GH1 footage out there and I've seen a few instances where the codec breaks down, but I'm not sure how often that's going to be an issue in my footage. My amateur impression is the Canon footage is lacking somehow. One clip isn't much to go on, of course.

The T2i definitely has the advantage in terms of price over the GH1, but the GH1 does autofocus in video mode and, according to the manual, can record up to 4 hours of full-HD video (using a 32GB card and DC power supply). GH1 also has the advantage of smaller size (but also the "disadvantage" of smaller image sensor).

I currently use HDV - a Sony HC1 and a Canon HV30. The Canon I bought with the hopes of exploiting the 24p mode, but the camera seems to have quickly developed a problem with glitches while recording to tape that I don't use it much. The Sony has been more reliable over the years, but it's had it share of dropouts, too, and I'm tired of them. So I'm hoping recording to memory card will fix that particular issue. Also, my editors are Pinnacle Studio 11, Avid Liquid 7, and Edius Neo, if it matters.

So, $900 for the Canon, or $1200 for the GH1?

Hey Paul till these cameras get into peoples hands there is no way to judge the quality at all. There are so many things that is going wrong with the clip posted on youtube. First off the producer of the video probably had the camera in Auto the whole time filming it. It was probably shot with a kit lens and if it was shot in Auto as I believe that means that the lens is at f8-f16 with out a ND filter. Diffraction will affect the perceived sharpness. The reason for beautiful perceived sharp 5D/7D/1D video out there is because people know how to use it. This video is just to show off the camera. On top of all that The video is compressed by youtube. All people can do is wait for the camera to hit the streets and have people who are more aware of how to use the camera start to post footage....If I were in your shoes these cameras will slowly be getting into the hands of people the end of the month in EU so if you can wait I'd wait a bit more before making a decision. Take Care

i have a silly selfish worry that the film look that these things can give and the wow factor it can bring when others (and clients!) see the video is going to become quite everyday and i'll have to work much harder to please!

on the other hand video skills will always come from the operator and a cheap camera with huge potential wont necessarily produce greatness in the wrong hands..

in any case i plan on taking advantage of the wow factor as much as possible while it still exists!

I agree with your post and in particular wonder about your first statement.

We've seen what has happened to the photography market in, say the past 5 years. DSLRs have become fairly reasonable and every body and their brother it seems is starting a photography company. I live in town of about 60,000 people and I search around online every so often (google and craigslist) and find entirely new people offering photo services every few weeks.

I have yet to see the sudden explosion of video companies out there, but I'm guessing that as these DSLRs become cheaper and feature laden, there will probably be a similar effect in the video world.

Either way, from a consumer standpoint having a camera that does both high quality photos and videos at a very economical price is a very attractive thing. I mean, I love being able to carry around my almost 1-year old Nikon D90 and take video of my 18-mo old son when the occassion arises. It's nice not having to lug around a video camera too.

This new Rebel has a very impressive feature set. It'll be interesting to see what other updates Canon makes to their DSLR line-up.

Hi Monday and thanks for the quick reply.

Your point about the youtube compression is well taken - I wondered the same thing when watching.

About the overall lack of wow in the Canon footage - what concerns me is that I'm under the impression this footage comes from Canon (Europe) and I would expect that because it's supposed to showcase the new camera it would be shot under the most ideal conditions. It doesn't appear to have been shot by someone like me playing around, though I'll be more than happy to accept your suggestion (and why not, my expectations are often far removed from reality, LOL).

I had hoped there would be more footage available - like the GH1 was launched in Japan and we had quite a bit of footage prior to the US launch, but in checking Youtube it doesn't look like the Canon was done the same way.

The good news is that I've got a bit of time before I actually buy.

Thanks again.

I have yet to see the sudden explosion of video companies out there, but I'm guessing that as these DSLRs become cheaper and feature laden, there will probably be a similar effect in the video world.



Kyle,

Affordable HV series cams have been around for awhile and if used properly can produce some great images. These are far easier for a prosumer to use than a dSLR. To shoot even reasonably 'pro' looking video with these you need at least a decent tripod, or stability rig, decent lenses, and a pro-level mic.

I think the impact of these cams (T2i) may influence the amateur 'film-maker' more than the guy who says 'this is what I was waiting for' to start a video production company.

Remember that dSLR replaced film - that was a startling and dynamic revolution that changed photography forever. Amateur (read: new photogs) who shoot weddings for cheap will shoot 1,000 to 2,500 stills at a wedding! And with Photoshop and plug-ins becoming do-able with cheap computer processing available, it's no wonder that every 4th person you meet is a wedding photographer.

Even a blind dog finds a bone once in awhile.

I have yet to see the sudden explosion of video companies out there, but I'm guessing that as these DSLRs become cheaper and feature laden, there will probably be a similar effect in the video world.


I'm not so sure, Kyle. Seems to me it takes a whole lot more to make good vids than good pics. Audio for example, most people here use an external sound recorder like the zoom. Think about the rig, the focus monitor... all that plus the whole postproduction, editing it into a nice clip, choosing the right music, exporting it DVD or internet and all... it's not only pressing the shutter button and presto! (I don't underestimate however the professional photographers who spend hours on lights, composition, and polishing the shot, but I think a good video takes a LOT more work all in all).

I can imagine it can be difficult to tell sometimes if a photograph is taken by a professional photographer or just a (serious) amateur with a DSLR.

I know many people (clients) percieve a video which stands out from the ordinary (like the 7D footage's WOW-factor) as professional looking, simply because there always was a big difference between home video an professional's footage, just in footage quality. But even if the amateur's source footage becomes 7D-quality, that still doesn't make a professional video. Using lots of cheesy transitions, unstable shots, simple pre-designed music... nah, if you're willing to spend lots of money on good lenses, audio equipment, focus monitors, rigs&rails, then you must be serious about the editing process too...

(However, sometimes I see what paid videographers in my country produce and how much they charge for it and I think to myself... unbelievable that people pay that much for pure rubbish imho)

So bottomline: I agree that the number of videographers getting great 'footage' will increase, and that many will also try to get professional jobs, but still I think the difference between the (semi-)professional and the amateur in the end will be big enough for serious clients.

As far as the 12 min recording limit, does that mean no continuous shot can be longer than 12 min or the card can't hold more than 12 min of video?

So as far as video performance, it is on par with the 7D? Does it still have the slight aliasing issues the 7D has or have those been improved in the video?

Since there is no specific section for it and it's similar to the 7D... here goes.There will be a specific section for it once it starts shipping. Meanwhile, I have merged the thread you started in our 7D forum into our existing T2i discussion topic, here under the Industry News forum.

Anyone shoot any HD 24P video with this camera?Please refer to the press release (the first post in this thread), the part near the bottom about availability which states that U.S. dealers will receive this camera in March. Since it isn't shipping yet, nobody has shot anything with it (outside of a few lucky pre-release sample testers).

Is it's video quality comparable to the 7D? I know it's a cheaper camera but how well does it compare? Any sample video? Is the 24P native? How are the manual controls?Please review this discussion thread in its entirety as it answers most of your questions and provides links to a few samples.

It must have just come out not too long ago.It has not started shipping yet. It was just announced yesterday. We need to get you into the habit of regularly reading the DV Info Net news forum!

Is the DoF comparable to the 7D? That's the biggest plus for the 7D is its film like DoF which is INCREDIBLE. How does the T2i compare?It is the same size sensor (APS-C) as the 7D, so yes, the Depth of Field results will be exactly the same.

As far as the 12 min recording limit, does that mean no continuous shot can be longer than 12 min or the card can't hold more than 12 min of video?It means that no continuous shot can be longer than 12 minutes. If a card is large enough, it can hold several 12-minute clips. For example, a 16GB card could contain four 12-minutes clips (at 4GB per clip).

So as far as video performance, it is on par with the 7D? Does it still have the slight aliasing issues the 7D has or have those been improved in the video?It should be the same as the 7D. We'll know more once the camera actually starts shipping, as people will report their experiences with it once these cameras become available. Hope this helps,

It is an import taxation limit for normal Stills DSLR cameras which states that it will be raised to a higher taxation band if it is able to record more than 30-minutes at a time (which equates to all DSLRs providing maximum 30-mins of SD recording, or only around 12-mins max in higher HD mode).
Cards already allow longer sequences than 12-mins of HD video and most modern hybrid DSLR cameras are able to if not 'cobbled' during production.

(Video quality) should be the same as the 7D.

Why do you think so? As a longtime stills photographer, since when has the Rebel series ever approached the xxD series in quality, let alone the 7D or 5D?

At a minimum I would expect more noise at equivalent ISOs, but I guess we'll find out soon enough...

Video quality is far lower than full resolution of a single stills image; plus that fact that many DSLR cameras with approximately equal image quality vary wildly in price mainly due to build quality and extra weather sealing (which means higher production costs).

I've had several photographs published in two books (both available nationwide at any of the large bookstore chains) taken with a lowly Rebel XT. There's nothing about a Rebel that inhibits the native image quality relative to the 7D or xxD series EOS bodies; the differences are first and foremost in the body construction -- polycarbonate on the Rebel, alloy on the EOS -- and frame rate, ISO sensitivity, AF speed and so on. In fact, the APS-C sensor in the T2i is newer than the one on the 7D!

Take any Rebel and any of its EOS contemporaries that are also APS-C, put them in broad daylight with ISO locked at 100, same settings and most importantly the same lenses, and I challenge you to discern which image came from which. Video would be an even more difficult identification test.

The Rebel is cheap because it's plastic, that's all. There's nothing wrong with the images it can make.

It's already been pointed out here that the differences in feature sets between the Rebel and other EOS models lie primarily in their photographic capabilities (burst rate, AF speed, sensitivity, etc.), but the video capability is pretty much equal across the line-up (or at least, it will be when the 5D Mk. II gets its firmware update).

Chris how would you rate the kit lens ( EF S 18-55)?

Hmm. Well, that kit lens is better than nothing I suppose, and it's much
better than its old non-IS predecessor . But in my opinion you really should
save the $100, buy the body only, and then get the lens you want.

It is an import taxation limit for normal Stills DSLR cameras which states that it will be raised to a higher taxation band if it is able to record more than 30-minutes at a time (which equates to all DSLRs providing maximum 30-mins of SD recording, or only around 12-mins max in higher HD mode).
Cards already allow longer sequences than 12-mins of HD video and most modern hybrid DSLR cameras are able to if not 'cobbled' during production.

From what i understand this is an EU only regulation. Im pretty sure the 4GB limit (being normally around 12 mins) is purely due to FAT32 limitations so am very interested to see if this will mean an end of the limit with these new cards.

"The EOS 500D sports an SD memory card slot and in addition to the now ubiquitous SD and SDHC cards, it's one of a new generation of cameras to support the new SDXC standard that promises increased speed and capacities up to 2TB. "
Canon EOS 550D / Digital Rebel T2i Hands-on Preview: 5. Body & Design: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos550d/page5.asp)

"Movie mode

Movies are recorded in .mov (Quicktime) format using H.264 codec for video and PCM for audio. The maximum duration is 29m 59sec, maximum file size is 4GB."
Canon EOS 550D / Digital Rebel T2i Hands-on Preview: 7. Operation & Controls: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos550d/page7.asp)

"Microsoft has announced a new licensing program for its Extended File Allocation Table (exFAT) technology. For certain device categories, such as cameras, camcorders, and digital photo frames, the software giant is charging a flat $300,000 license fee, while companies that want to use the format in devices such as phones, PCs, and networks will have to pay a volume-based license fee.

The company notes that the exFAT technology is already being adopted by partners in the industry; Redmond has entered into exFAT licensing agreements with several leading companies including Sony, Canon, and Sanyo. Furthermore, SanDisk, as a member of the SD Association and the Memory Stick standard, has endorsed the adoption of the exFAT file system for use in the new extra capacity storage media. The SD Association says it chose the exFAT file system for the SDXC memory card specification because it supports large volumes, large files, and better contiguous on-disk layout. File saving on SDXC cards can reach the full 300MBps speed thanks to exFAT's modern storage allocation techniques.

Microsoft markets exFAT as the modern version of its predecessor, the FAT system, as it can handle larger files on flash memory devices for use of audiovisual media (Microsoft plans to continue to license the older FAT format alongside exFAT). The latest generation of the exFAT file system allows significantly larger files to be stored on a broad range of consumer electronic devices (support for 256TB compared to FAT's 32GB), and improves the speed at which they can be accessed. Microsoft says the file system can handle more than 4,000 RAW images, 100 HD movies, or 60 hours of HD recording in a single directory, and thus calls exFAT an "ideal file system for delivering fast and reliable use of audio and video files." The technology has already been available for some time in Vista SP1 and later, as well as Windows 7, but now the software giant is licensing it broadly to the industry. "

http://arstechnica.com/...009/12/microsoft-licenses-out-exfat-file-system.ars

"Because Windows Vista and 7 both support exFAT, the SDXC file system, the SD Association claims users should soon receive the SDXC device driver from Microsoft. The SD Association has not said when other operating systems, including any version of Mac OS X, will receive SDXC drivers."

SDXC Will Replace SDHC, Offer Up to 2 Terabytes of Data Storage (http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=16193&news=SDXC+SDHC+memory+cards+terabyte)