Hello!

After tons of reading up on different camera options and poring over this board quite a bit, I've finally bit the bullet and purchased a PDX10.

I shoot a public access show that I produce, edit, and create graphics for myself. The show revolves around interviews with urban artists, and relevant performances if possible.

This week I'll be shooting my first footage with the new camera. A DJ performing at a club, and then an interview with him this weekend.

I've read, and noticed, that the supplied shotgun mic is not very sensitive. This is a bit disappointing since I'd like to have a "ready to shoot" package right out of the box, but the footage I've test shot does look gorgeous, so that's comforting.

I can't really afford additinal pro audio stuff for a couple of weeks but I will be borrowing my friend's Sony lavalier mic set up for a little bit.

What kind of audio set up do you think would be ideal for shooting in the future? Would my own lavalier system do it? Should I consider getting an upgrade to the supplied shotgun mic?

If anyone's curious about the show, I have an episode posted online that I shot with my well worn Canon ZR40 and jazzed up a little in FCP:

http://www.defkon.com/video_starshine.html

Thanks for any feedback or input!

Hello!

I can't really afford additional pro audio stuff for a couple of weeks but I will be borrowing my friend's Sony lavalier mic set up for a little bit.
That's not bad at all. Just make sure you adjust the audio inputs
correctly. Most likely it'll be Mic input. Use one channel for the shotgun
and one line for the lav. If you're close to the interviewee you'll get
decent audio with the shotgun as well.

>What kind of audio set up do you think would be ideal for shooting
>in the future? Would my own lavalier system do it?

A lav is indispensable. Not sure how good is your lav.
You haven't said what model it is.

>Should I consider getting an upgrade to the supplied shotgun mic?

Yes

You might consider also a wireless mic. in my case I chose that route.
but that's because of my application.

Lastly, you'll need lighting. In my case, I chose to get soft lighting.

Good luck

Use the lavalier for the interview and the shotgun mic for the show but get some board audio from the show to mix with your shotgun audio. If the shotgun is not sensitive, a loud concert will not be a problem. Just don't use it for the quieter scenes.

You got it made with the XLR jacks, though! :)

Thanks for the replies.

Correction: He says it's a Sennheiser model, but he couldn't find the exact one on the B&H site to show me. Maybe it's no longer produced?

I have a Lowel Pro light that I use during interviews. It's nice because it's tiny and I tend to just bounce it off a wall for fill.

I have to keep my set up pretty minimal since I'm running around NYC.

Is the Sony UWP-C1 the way to go if I was to get my own lavalier set up?
I feel like that's popular, but definitely pricey. Are Sennheiser any better?
I'm never sure what is adequate when it comes to audio. I'd rather wait and spend money on something of quality rather than cut corners and be sorry when I hear the results.

What kind of set shotgun mic would be a good upgrade?

As for getting sound off the boards, would I need a DAT? I'm not that familiar with audio set ups. Would it in theory be an easy thing to get an XLR cable to just feed the camera live directly?

Since the show is tomorrow I'll probably just have to make do with the shotgun's sound for now. It should be OK though. On my Canon I used to just use a Sony stereo mic and the supplied shotgun has to be an upgrade from that, right? <:)

Generally you get what you pay for, so pricey lavaliers by either Sony or Sennheiser should be of quality.

Sennheiser shotguns are great. I use an ME64. I chose it specifically as an on camera mic, because it isn't too narrow in it's pickup pattern, while having good cancellation in the rear (not all shotguns do, especially the more directional ones, such as the ME66). You will have to supplement a piece of material, such as a small cutting of an old mouse pad, to take up the extra space between the mic and the mount, at least with the Sennheisers.

An XLR cable of some length will be exactly what you'll need to get a line-in from the sound board to the camera. The best way to go, plus the shotgun for room sound.

Good luck!

What I am going to describe is what I would consider an "emergency tip". And it comes from someone who always reacts against people using the camera mic.

In fact I continue to react to that IF YOU LEAVE YOUR MIC ON THE CAMERA.

But you can still use the standard mic for your interviews.

What you should do is get yourself a longer XLR/XLR cable, some kind of mic suspension and a mic stand. Then disengage the supplied mic from the camera, plug the extension cable and get closer to your subject. Use the suspension and the stand to hold it there for you.

Always be aware that a mic should be closer than two feet from your subject's lips, so you can cut-off ambience level.

Always use manual level on your audio, and set it for peaks going up to -4dB or so, if your subject speaks normally, that is with no change in tone. If it does then set the peaks closer to -12dB, and that will probably take care of unexpected peaks.

This is a procedure I used with my PDX10 when I did some interviews in NY, right after buying it from B&H. The camera mic did the job well, and it put it on chairs, tables and pillows to get closer, as I moved around with my camera on a monopod.

Even if I did have a lapel mic (wired), I decided not to use it because my subjects were static and I could get good audio by doing what I did, leaving the subject more comfortable. Of course I checked the mic positions with my headphone, something which you should do too, whatever mic you use.

Whenever you can do get a better shotgun mic, and the options will depend on your budget. But whichever it is continue to use it as I described above for interviews, never on the camera. Using it like that is the next best thing to using a soundman.


Carlos

An XLR cable of some length will be exactly what you'll need to get a line-in from the sound board to the camera. The best way to go, plus the shotgun for room sound.

I don't know many places that have an open XLR on their board. They usually are all used up. Have you ever asked a sound guy if they have an XLR out for you to plug into? :) You'll get a pretty sour look.

He'll probably be needing a 1/4" to XLR with a barrel adapter.

Thanks for the responses!

I did pick up a wired lav mic and a 15' XLR cable yesterday.

I hope the sound board is right where Blockhead (the DJ)'s set up is, but if it's too far I wouldn't really be able to have a cable stretching across the club anyway.

Carlos, thanks for the tip but can you explain why you're so adamant about not having the mic actually rest in the shotgun holder? I don't know if it would be practical in my situation to get a mic stand considering I'm already carrying the camera, a pro light, light stand and tripod for most interviews.

I don't have a car, and I'm filming completely on my own. The more I can streamline, the better.

The one other thing I'm considering getting before the show tonight is a mono pod, which I'd been exploring through B&H and this site. Although the PDX is by no means heavy, I think I would get a more stable shot obviously and avoid some arm fatigue, since I don't know how much space I'll have by Blockhead's set up (saying he's a DJ is a little inaccurate. He's more of a beat producer, working with a laptop) for my little tripod.

I don't know how much space I'll have by Blockhead's set up (saying he's a DJ is a little inaccurate. He's more of a beat producer, working with a laptop) for my little tripod.

Ugh!

You'll be doing more work than him, you know.

Maybe he should interview you. ;)

Ugh!

You'll be doing more work than him, you know.

Maybe he should interview you. ;)

Hahaha! He was even saying he wouldn't be putting on much of a "show" but you know it's always good to see someone do what they do. Better than a straight talking head for 28 minutes at any rate. :)

Thanks again for all the replies. I'll be sure to post a Quicktime of the episode when it's done.

Hahaha! He was even saying he wouldn't be putting on much of a "show" but you know it's always good to see someone do what they do. Better than a straight talking head for 28 minutes at any rate. :)

Thanks again for all the replies. I'll be sure to post a Quicktime of the episode when it's done.

I'd make the video mostly crowd shots. Too long a shot of him basking in the flourescent glow of his LCD will give people the impression that he is just trading stock, after having hit play on Winamp.

I actually was doing a little DJ-ing myself at a club a couple of nights. I had a NUON enhanced DVD player that played visualizations to MP3s that I had on a CD. Had it going through a projector onto a screen and also had a video camera in a feedback loop on the projector. People could walk in front of it and it would send waves out from their bodies, all over the screen.

Except for the camera, I did all this from a bar stool, with a remote in one hand and a drink in another. The ultimate in laziness. My name was DJ Day Job... No kidding.

Ha, that sounds like a wild set up. Dig the dj handle, heh heh.

It should be an interesting scene. I know Blockhead has a following, and another artist from his label is playing that night.

I'm eager to see what the venue is like, along with the crowd.

http://www.ninjatune.net/blockhead/

I've got a Bogen monopod (about $35 at B&H Photo) and it really stabilizes my shots at weddings. Even better, of course, is to have a tripod so you get completely steady video during interviews.

I generally do interviews with a tripod at close range with the PDX10's shotgun mic, and they turn out pretty well. I use the monopod sometimes too. I almost never shoot free-hand.

-Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Oh I agree, I'll always stabilize if at all possible. I've never been to this venue before so I'm not sure if I'll really have room for the tripod, but I'm carting it along just in case.

Out of curiosity which Bogen monopod do you use? I was looking at the 680B since it's compact (down to 20") and maybe getting the 3229 Swivel head for it, with quick release.

I know some people have suggested the Slik carbon fiber tripod, but I think that's a little over my monopod budget :)

Ha, that sounds like a wild set up. Dig the dj handle, heh heh.

It should be an interesting scene. I know Blockhead has a following, and another artist from his label is playing that night.

I'm eager to see what the venue is like, along with the crowd.

http://www.ninjatune.net/blockhead/


OH!

NINJA TUNES!!! Try to get him to send Kid Koala down to Houston! I spoke with DJ Vadim a couple of years back about getting Kid Koala to tour but nothing happened. Apparently he is a slacker extraordinaire.

If they are Ninja Tunes artists, then you will have a pretty good crowd. :)

OH!

NINJA TUNES!!! Try to get him to send Kid Koala down to Houston! I spoke with DJ Vadim a couple of years back about getting Kid Koala to tour but nothing happened. Apparently he is a slacker extraordinaire.

If they are Ninja Tunes artists, then you will have a pretty good crowd. :)

Oh how quickly we turn... ;)

Oh how quickly we turn... ;)

Hey! I could tell you who I've filmed but I don't want you bothering me. :)

Blockhead's a fairly new artist with the label, I assume? I started listening to their label after a friend came back from Vancouver with the 10 year anniversary 3 CD compilation of theirs. I loved it so much, I just sort of branched off of that but never stumbled across Blockhead.

Where's this gonna be?

We saw some of the Anticon people come through town a couple of months back. SOLE was headlining. Dosh ate all my chips and salsa. He was so starved, when I asked everyone if they wanted them, he grunted and ripped the bag out of my hand. Never said another word because his mouth was too full. They need to feed that boy better!

Got Buck65 opening for some piss-poor group that we are not going to stay for on August 3rd. Can't wait for that one. We were going to ask him if we could film him but we have too many things on our system right now that need to be finished.

I use the Bogen 679B monopod (and I have the swivel head too). I also picked up a cheap monopod at Best Buy that folds up to about 15 inches and I keep that in my camera bag (it just barely fits!).

But the Bogen is the better of the two.

-Jeff

Hi Konstantin,

Let me put your mind to rest as someone who has shot interviews with the PDX10 with a variety of equipment an both in dark clubs and on the street, in room, etc... I would love it if you send me a copy of the footage of the DJ you shoot, so I can see and hear what you ended up doing. :)

What I suggest is that, given your cirumstances for the future, you get a shotgun mic and a wireless mic.

I actually find the wireless mic better because if it's good, it will save you a lot of hassle of trying to find a boom guy and etc... I've used both the Sony and the Sennheiser (g2) in field and.... the Senn's sound better for some reason. Better noise cancellation, more natural deeper tones, than the Sony. both are good though. This is where you don't want to cut corners.

As for the shotgun, test a bunch and see what you like. I have a ME66 but I don't like it. Too whiney and you still gotta be close to the subject for good sound. Go with the MK416 or the Audio Technical 407a (or whatever model is close to that, I can't remember). With the wireless, trust me, the Senn sounds better, BUT with the shotgun, you're going to have to try a few out to see what you like. There are some sample MP3 tests in the sound forum, somewhere for all the aforementioned mics.

You will need a mono pod, or a tripod. Or even a small mini tripod, in case you can put the camera on a table or chair.

a hood man would be good so you can see what you are doing and get some privacy from onlookers.

extra batteries are always a must. both for the camera and the wireless mics.

Hope that helps, email me for my address ( *wink*)

--
To other people, have you guys found any solutions for superior noise cancellation in loud clubs?

can you explain why you're so adamant about not having the mic actually rest in the shotgun holder? I don't know if it would be practical in my situation to get a mic stand considering I'm already carrying the camera, a pro light, light stand and tripod for most interviews.



The camera holder and camera position are usually the worst to put a mic in for an interview. That is valid for any camera and microphone, not just the PDX10.

A mic should be positioned at less than 2-feet from your subject's mouth, preferably pointing down from above. Your camera will most probably be farther than that in most circumstances. If you get to put your subject at less than 2-ft from your camera you may get away with it.

If not you should use a lapel mic or a mic on a stand. If you are using light stands, you can get yourself a mic stand.

In this matters it's a question of attitude on what you believe it's important. Test for yourself different mic positions before going on location and listen to them on good headphones. Rememb er your dialogue should be clean and free from ambience noise.


Carlos

Quick tip that may not apply here:
If you need to mic a whole crew of say 3-4 people, you can get (rent , buy, borrow) multiple lav mics and get a small mixer and a single wireless system. This lets you move about freely and gives everyone a mic. The only obvious bad thing is that the audio will be premixed to a single channel if you do this so do it right.

Start with an inexpensive mixer like a Behringer or Samson if you are short on funds...Run the wired mics into the mixer and use a wireless mic to send the output of the mixer to the receiver mounted on the camera. You can set the levels on the mixer before shooting with a mic check from each person, leaving a little headroom if they get crazy on you later. Better yet, take a friend who can understand that a red light is a bad thing and have them mix the audio.

I have done this a time or two. It allows you to move around freely to change angles without the cables.

Not for all situations. And for the purists, yes I know Behringer Mixers are a bit noisy and not quite up to par but if you only have $100 for 4 channels, go for it.

Sean McHenry

Thanks for the continued replies!

Stephen, yes he's fairly newer to Ninja Tune. I have that same compilation, which is great. I used to be a huge electronica fan but got bored with a lot of it eventually. I did see Amon Tobin recently which was fun.

The show was at a small local venue called Rothko's, down on the lower east side of Manhattan.

Ronald/Jeff, thanks for the equipment suggestions. I'll have to look the items up on B&H. I already added that Sennheiser wireless lav to my wish list though :D I wound up picking up the Bogen monopod right before the show and was very happy that I did. I think a screen hood is a great idea. I found it a bit distracting having people from the audience trying to check the LCD over my shoulder.

The interview went well and I was happy with the Audio Technica lav I picked up.

The only issue I had with the performance shoot was that my crowd shots were dark. They had a disco ball going which made alot of the image harder to read as well. I'd like to get a small on-camera light for the future. Something like the Sony HVL-20DMA seems good, though I'm not sure how much wattage I would need/want. That's another topic altogether though!