I could use a bit of advice from the experienced international shooters here.

I'm about to embark on a multi-month shoot with an EX1. I'll be acquiring a nanoFlash to record to. I have to deliver HD in both 50i and 59.94i flavours.

Question 1. Best acquisition format? In the past I've shot 59.94i and done expensive frame rate conversions to 50i. But with the EX1 nanoFlash combo I would think 23.976p with 2:3 pulldown to 29.97 and speed change to 25 is the way to go for space and aesthetic reasons. Does anyone think otherwise?

Question 2. I need to protection copy and edit in the room where I'll be staying. I'll take along a 5 drive port multiplier e-sata enclosure populated with large drives. I thought I'd Raid 1 a set of two drives and copy from the CompactFlash cards cards at the end of each day, that way having dual copies, one to edit with, and one to shelve as protection. But, never having used Raid 1 (I know 0 and 6) I don't know if the single drives can be addressed in Win7 independently, outside the raid set. Or alternatively, is there a good hardware/software solution for making dual copies?

Thanks for any advice,
David

Dear David,

I hope others offer their advice and experience.

Thanks, Dan. Hope so, too :)

23.976p is a good choice.

Or you could shoot PAL and convert to 23.976p for the NTSC people. Either way works well. One way you get a speed up, the other a slowdown.

I would think about a Nexto, really easy to download to.

I primarily use Macs so I "know nothing" about W7. Some here will though.

On Macs I usually just copy to several drives instead of setting up a mirrored RAID. It seems just as fast and it is easy to mount just one drive when you get back to transfer to your studio RAIDs. And you can keep the drives in different hotel rooms, cars or whatever in case of "what we don't like to think about".

In the studio I always use RAID 5.

olof@westsideav.com

Thanks, Olof,

I have to deliver 59.94i to the NTSC people (maybe we should start saying 60 cycle, instead). Unfortunately they don't accept 23.976p.

I think the Nexto is appropriate for field backup, when you don't have an editing station nearby. It's more limiting than a handy port multiplier enclosure populated with up to 2TB drives.

Failing the Raid 1 idea there must be a software solution that double copies to two separate drives.

David,

What I meant was convert 25fps pal to 24p, then do a pulldown to 60i. AE will do all this for you. I am using the terms I use a lot instead of actual frame rates here.

Also it is easy to write a script that copies the same files to two drives. If I did windows I would give you the script. There are lots of people that can write that "macro" for you or you could get a macro program like QuickKeys to do it for you.

Question 2.
I have used Shotput Pro to copy Sony SxS cards to 2 hard drives in the field for a multiple camera shoot. It worked well. They say you can copy from any digital card on their web site. I don't know about Win 7 support.

http://www.imagineproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=2

David,

What I meant was convert 25fps pal to 24p, then do a pulldown to 60i. AE will do all this for you. I am using the terms I use a lot instead of actual frame rates here.

I've never been thrilled with Ae's native frame rate conversion, at least with interlaced. Progessive may work better. But the Twixtor plugin works extremely well.

Also it is easy to write a script that copies the same files to two drives. If I did windows I would give you the script. There are lots of people that can write that "macro" for you or you could get a macro program like QuickKeys to do it for you.

A simple batch will do the copies progressively but that may be slower than Raid 1 or Shotput.

Thanks, Bob. I'll read up on Shotput.

This new product - the Sonnet Qio - looks interesting. It seems to be a multi-card reader/copier with 2 compactFlash card slots (among others) and 4 e-sata ports

Sonnet - Qio: Professional Universal Media Reader/Writer Plus Four eSATA Ports (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/qio.html)

There's no manual yet so I'm not sure how it works but if you can stick two full compactFlash cards in it and have it copy both to e-sata drives that would be terrific.

Any other multiple compactFlash card readers out there that anyone knows about?

David,

AE will do a great job as long as you are converting or interpreting video frame for frame not creating new ones. And it does 3:2 pulldown perfectly to 60i. Turning 25p or 24p into 30p is very problematic as is 30p to 25 or 24.

Unless you have a raid controller in the computer or in the drive box. It is the same speed copying to a "software" raid as copying to 2 separate drives. It can be done simultaneously the limiting factor is the bus.

To go from 25 to 24 or 23'98 you don't need to render, just conform in CimemaTools or similar.
Rafael

Hi David,

I might be able to help with this workflow.

Have just returned from a location shoot in NZ.

You are welcome to email me with your phone number.

Will call you if you like.

Cheers

Mike.

Hi David,
The main thing is to keep yourself organized and analyze your needs. When traveling I've made data redundancy my #1 priority, followed by staying current, with getting footage into post running in third place.
I tend to bring numerous small (500GB) hard drives - such as WD Passports - and use each for a specific purpose. Typically I'll keep two for BPAV files (primary and backup) and two for MXF's. Yes, they get labeled very specifically. One set stays in the hotel safe when on a shoot. Additional drives may be used to ship data back to cutting room, or for editing on location. They never are all in the same place at the same time, except pussibly while doing transfers in the hotel room. I use a VAIO with extra batteries because the drives can drain the internal battery pretty quickly if several are plugged in at once and I don't have a power source. I usually also carry a small inverter in case I need to work in a vehicle. Consider ShotPut if you feel comfortable with it, or even a simple transfer program like Backup Magic can help keep you organized. When I get back, if the client wants an archive copy (and is willing to pay for time & discs), I'll transfer everything to XDcam ProDiscs using a U1 drive.
It sounds simplistic, but an organized approach (even to the point of doing things at the same time of day) creates a workable routine very quickly, and what seems slow or clumsy the first couple of days will become second nature. For instance, I would always make a point of starting transfers as soon as I got back to the hotel room, and having a longer transfer operation run while going out to dinner. Make sure you have enough cards to get through a whole day of shooting if you're running around to numerous locations. I've gotten caught having to do transfers on the fly when my producer would decide to shoot 'a little b-roll' on our backup camera, sometimes amounting to several hours of footage in a day. (Doing transfers in the back of a bouncy bus driving on dirt roads in third world countries is not my favorite part of the assignment.) Since getting the NanoFlash I've added a NexTo drive to my kit. I always make a point of setting up the producer's computer with the appropriate drivers and software BEFORE the start of the trip, so I have a potential backup if necessary, or another transfer station if things get really crazy. I carry 5.5 hours of SxS cards, plus 3 hours of Hoodman adapter cards, so being organized with the transfers allows me to get a little sleep each night.
The toughest shoots are obviously the ones where you shoot/travel/sleep each day. On those, you'll need to be more pro-active on getting the transfers done while shooting. (Always try to get seats with power plugs on your long flights - and bring a cube tap in case your plug deosn't work and someone else's does.) Cube taps are also useful in airports where plugs are always at a premium.
If you want, let us know more about your daily routine and I'm sure you'll get more specific suggestions.
Best,
Dave S.

Great practical advice. Thanks Dave.

I wasn't planning on saving my native EX1 files but your post convinced me that I should as an emergency backup. This raises the question:

Is it possible to name the nanoFlash files with the same names as the Ex1r? Probably not but what can be done to identify and match the respective clips?

David,

Are you going to be travelling around or in one place?

Will you be editing on a desktop or a laptop?

Do you need to shoot in 1080 or 720?

I have not tried it, but have you seen a 720p60 to 720p50 conversion? At least it would stay progressive before you converted it to 60/50i.

I shoot with 720p60 a lot because it transfers well when I put it on a 720p24 or a 720p30 timeline.

When you say 50i & 60i flavors, does this mean you want or need a high framerate look?

Because if you are delivering on Blu-ray, 720p60/50 is part of the spec and achieves the same as 1080i in terms of motion and the resolution difference is debated on weather or not it exists. You could stay in 720p60/50 for blu-ray and convert to 60/50i for DVD.

I will take a stab at the storage after I hear back from you.

Hi Tim,

I'll be in one place for 8 weeks and travelling around for 6 weeks. I don't expect to be putting more than 2-3 hours a day in the can.

When I'm editing during the shoot it will be on a laptop. Hence the question about storage. I was thinking of taking my port multiplier enclosure with 3.5 drives. I'll start looking around for a port multiplier with 2.5 drives and see if it's worth saving the weight.

I'm delivering 1920 both 60i and 50i from a 24p master.

David

Dave assuming you are using a Mac laptop with an express card slot. There is a Sonnet eSata 2 port express card device that (i'm pretty sure) has port multiplication built into it. You may also wish to consider a "dock" that allows you to plug in naked 3.5" or 2.5" drives into the base. They generally come with eSATA and USB 2.0 ports on them. Very light.

Being in Canada you may wish to try a place like Frontierpc. I looked up this gear last week and they had stock on both.

O.K.

3 hous of 100mbps log GOP with the Nano is about 140GB. So this is the raw footage amount per day. Looks like about 700GB to 1TB per week of raw footage if the shooting pace remains constant.

Going to 50mbps will cut these numbers in half (but not your image qaulity in half).

I agree that e-sata is your only hope.

I have a hot-swappable drive bay in my desktop which you could get in an external configuration. This lets me slide a drive in without re-booting, add my data and slide it back out without re-booting. Do you could use affordable sata drives and swap them in and out as needed. This might be easier to travel with and might be a good backup solution.

Do you see a lot of need to multiple layers of video playing at once and heavy effects or color correction? If not, you could probably get by without a RAID if you do not want to travel with a larger box. Or use a two drive RAID and backup to the hot-swap bay to keep the space open on the RAID. With this much footage, I would always want two drives with the same footage on them at the same time. You will be wiping your CF cards a lot and they will not be able to serve as a backup.

Bear in mind, these suggestions are based upon me using a PC with Edius as my NLE.

I have stated this before that I can edit Nano files from the CF card in the USB reader, so a non-raid sata hard drive is plenty of throughput for "normal" editing.

I am sure you know all of this stuff, just sharing my thoughts.

Andrew, I'm a PC But I'll look two drive solutions as I'm loath to lug a 10 pound 5 drive enclosure around the world. BTW I found a neat 4 x 2.5" disk port multiplier unit at

Quad 2.5" SATA II Hard Drive MINI RAID 4726 Silicon Image Chip (http://www.cooldrives.com/qu2saiihadrm.html)

but buying 8 x 1TB 2.5" drives is no small expense. If I lug 3.5" drives around they'll eventually end up in my Raid 6 when the shoot is done..

O.K.

Do you see a lot of need to multiple layers of video playing at once and heavy effects or color correction? If not, you could probably get by without a RAID if you do not want to travel with a larger box. Or use a two drive RAID and backup to the hot-swap bay to keep the space open on the RAID. With this much footage, I would always want two drives with the same footage on them at the same time. You will be wiping your CF cards a lot and they will not be able to serve as a backup.

Bear in mind, these suggestions are based upon me using a PC with Edius as my NLE.

I have stated this before that I can edit Nano files from the CF card in the USB reader, so a non-raid sata hard drive is plenty of throughput for "normal" editing.


Much appreciated, Tim.

The 3 hrs a day was a maximum figure. I'm guessing I'll shoot 60 or so hours which at 100mbps will nicely fit on 2 2GB drives. Double duping will mean 4 2GB drives. I'll edit off single drives...the Raid 1 idea was just for double duping.

Just to answer your original question raid 1 is a mirrored raid yes you can remove a drive and still access your data but I'm not sure why you would do this. It is the safest solution for hard drives as you can lose one drive completely and simply replace it and the new drive will be rebuilt in the background - this process uses a lot of resources (same with Raid 5 which uses a parity drive rther than copied data). Raid 1 has the disadvantage of being as slow as a single drive and it doubles the hard drive space needed.

I too recommend a Nexto for offloading. I'm like you - I like two copies of my data. So I copy all my media from my Nexto to an external hard drive. I then import it into my project so I have another copy on a different external media drive. Only when I have duplicate copies will I erase the original compact flash and clear off the Nexto.

Of course to be truly safe you would require some form of off-site backup - it is called digital paranoia.

duplicate post.

Just to answer your original question raid 1 is a mirrored raid yes you can remove a drive and still access your data but I'm not sure why you would do this. It is the safest solution for hard drives as you can lose one drive completely and simply replace it and the new drive will be rebuilt in the background - this process uses a lot of resources (same with Raid 5 which uses a parity drive rther than copied data). Raid 1 has the disadvantage of being as slow as a single drive and it doubles the hard drive space needed.

I too recommend a Nexto for offloading. I'm like you - I like two copies of my data. So I copy all my media from my Nexto to an external hard drive. I then import it into my project so I have another copy on a different external media drive. Only when I have duplicate copies will I erase the original compact flash and clear off the Nexto.

Of course to be truly safe you would require some form of off-site backup - it is called digital paranoia.

I've decided to go the route of the two drive docking station rather than raid 1. That will allow me to double off-load the compact flash cards. As I'm counting that I'll only need 2 x 2GB drives per copy I'll always be able to edit with all my material available.

Dear David,

Does your 2-drive docking station have eSATA connection to your computer?

If so, great.

However, the one's that I have seen, and I have not researched all of the units on the market, have a USB 2.0 connection to the host computer. This is even though they have eSATA connections to the drives themselves.

USB 2.0 is a bottleneck, an eSATA connection is far faster.

David, please feel free to give me a call.

BTW I found a neat 4 x 2.5" disk port multiplier unit at Quad 2.5" SATA II Hard Drive MINI RAID 4726 Silicon Image Chip (http://www.cooldrives.com/qu2saiihadrm.html)

but buying 8 x 1TB 2.5" drives is no small expense. If I lug 3.5" drives around they'll eventually end up in my Raid 6 when the shoot is done..

Nice find David. Reasonably priced. Always curious about ambient and fan noise in multiple HD enclosure units. Price isn't too bad.

At this point in time, Feb 2010, I wouldn't consider 2.5" drives over 640GB as the value/price ratio widens greatly when you get larger than this.

Gotta say I think the Nexto is a great solution. I love the simplicity of the user interface. I laugh every time I fire it up. Too bad the SxS version is 2 grand versus $300 for the standard unit.