Wow...what an incredible thread. Thank you all for sharing your results.
I have my work cut out for me now!

Patrick McLoad

Silly question here...

I downloads Alister's set above but now am wondering how to get the files loaded in the camera. Off course I've read the manual and spitted out this topic but it still won't work. I did trie different ways but it keeps saying "No file" on all numbers at the SxS Scene Recall menu. What should the folder structure on the SxS card look like? The SONY folder just besides the CLPR and TAKR folders in the root?

The Sony folder should be on the cards root, ie next to the BPAV folder, and NOT in the BPAV folder.

Thanks Alister. I do hope that Neut2 file works pretty good for ENG stuff, otherwise I'll just try to adapt it a bit. I found the 350's colours out-of-the-box way too much saturated. For example, this is what I shot on it this morning:

YouTube - Zwaargewonden bij ongeval knooppunt Batadorp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2LKbt1lpmY&hd=1)

I have the same problem with the orange and lime-green safety vests here in the States. Alister, I've asked this elsehwhere, but are your scene files specifically for European gear or does it matter?

Patrick McLoad

Does not matter whether it's Pal or NTSC, should give the same results.

First of all, greetings from WTVF-TV Nashville, Tn.
Thanks to everyone on this forum, we're setting up our brand new PMW-350 cams right now from the scene files that we have been working on from this forum, and think that it's wonderful what you've all done to work in the camera to get it away from the terribly unexciting 'Sony out of the box' look.
Our station even bought really good Canon glass for them, and it's incredible the clarity of the images we're getting.

Thanks to Allister, and the rest of you, it's been an enlightening journey into the back end of the camera, and recently, I've seen our cams go from 'blah' to amazing in a few minutes, what the promise of these cameras would be.
Currently, we're liking the Allister colors, but in agreement that the blacks are a bit flat.
However, I'm in disagreement with the rest of the guys, because I'm a bigtime primary and secondary grade kind of guy, and like having the range I can really pull out of it.

Anyway, this is just a thank you note.
I'll be posting our final 'ENG' recipe when we're done. Currently, it's being fought over by fifteen guys right now.

Alister,

I used these settings on the 320.

Alister-Natural
Master Black -3, Gamma On, Gamma select 4 4609, Gamma Category HG, Detail On, Level -12, H/V Ratio +15, Crispening 0, Frequency +30, White Limit +30, Black Limit +40, Aperture On, Level -20. Matrix On, Preset Matrix On, Preset select 2, User Matrix On, R-G 0, R-B +5, G-R -6, G-B +8, B-R -15, B-G -9

I was wondering what to alter if i wanted to bring out a bit more colour.

Any ideas and thanks for posting these settings btw.

I can't remember whether the 320 has a saturation level control in the matrix settings. I think it does. If you increase that you will have more saturated colours.

failing that adding the same amount to all the matrix vectors (G-R etc) for example adding +20 to whatever level you have then currently at will increase the saturation. So if R-G = 0 then it becomes +20 and if R-B is +5 then it becomes +25.

Thank you Alister for your help,

I will try that and post back.

Thanks.

I can't remember whether the 320 has a saturation level control in the matrix settings. I think it does. If you increase that you will have more saturated colours.

failing that adding the same amount to all the matrix vectors (G-R etc) for example adding +20 to whatever level you have then currently at will increase the saturation. So if R-G = 0 then it becomes +20 and if R-B is +5 then it becomes +25.

When I turned Multi Matrix on I see Hue and Saturation. Is it this saturation setting your talking about?

Thanks Alister.

No , not in the multi-matrix, but the standard matrix.

No , not in the multi-matrix, but the standard matrix.

I dont see a saturation level control in the matrix settings, on the 320 (but then I'm no expert)
Matrix gives me these settings. (now changed to your SF.)
Matrix On
Preset Matrix On
Preset select 2
User Matrix On,
R-G 0, R-B +5, G-R -6, G-B +8, B-R -15, B-G -9

I'm trying these CF settings.

Alister-Natural
Master Black -3, Gamma On, Gamma select 4 4609, Gamma Category HG, Detail On, Level -12, H/V Ratio +15, Crispening 0, Frequency +30, White Limit +30, Black Limit +40, Aperture On, Level -20. Matrix On, Preset Matrix On, Preset select 2, User Matrix On, R-G 0, R-B +5, G-R -6, G-B +8, B-R -15, B-G -9

(In my 320 I noticed the reds a bit flat)

Thanks for your help Alister.

Also wondering,
In my EX3 I had GAMMA SETTING: CINE4 and MATRIX at high sat.

I dont see those options in my 320, are they hidden under a different menu?.
What other option would give me Matrix---High Sat

Thanks in advance.

The PMW-320 has Hypergamma as opposed to cinegammas. They are similar in what they do.

The different preset matrices have different saturation levels. I don't have a 320 or 350 and I can't remember what each one does.

Just wondered if someone COULD develop a picture profile that looks like the F3?

The Sony folder should be on the cards root, ie next to the BPAV folder, and NOT in the BPAV folder.

Does it have to be a Memory card as the Sony site says or can the imported files be put on a SxS card?

To create a PP to look like an F3 wouldn't be to hard, but what really makes the F3 look the way it does id the shallow DoF and no PP will be able to do that.

On a PMW-350/PMW-320 you would want to soften the image just a little, perhaps using detail at -12 (or off) and then use aperture at +30 ish to keep textures crisp. Use CG1/CG3 along with the cinema matrix with saturation at +20. These are suggestions as I don't have a 350 to hand but should be close to an F3 (also use the same gamma/matrix on the F3 if using them side by side).

Hi Alister,

May I ask whether you have experimented in the direction of finding the best matching PPs for EX1 and FS100?

I have both, but only now I'm going to use them together - shooting (as usually) live classical music (you know the challenges:)).

Piotr

Just a few words on what I've found trying to make my EX1 somewhat match my F3 ---
In doing a lot af A-B'ing and looking at WFM levels, I found it best to set up a situation I wanted to match, then adjust the picture profiles on both cameras to get a similar look. I started by picking a gamma setting that I thought was fairly close between the two (cinegam3) and that made sense for what I was shooting, but found the matrix numbers I ended up with on the two cameras to match the color were vastly different. All in all, I spent a couple of hours to get the A-B extremely close (close enough for one of my clients whose delivery times are too quick for color correction in post).
If I go into a different kind of lighting situation, I'll start from scratch and do it again...

Hi Alister,

May I ask whether you have experimented in the direction of finding the best matching PPs for EX1 and FS100?

I have both, but only now I'm going to use them together - shooting (as usually) live classical music (you know the challenges:)).

Piotr

Sorry I'm quoting my own message - yes, I'm doing it do bump it up :)

Also, I realize this is not the best thread for discussing the FS100 camera, but since you're now talking about matching different cameras, I thought I might rise my issue here after all...

Finally, even if I turned directly to Alister, I'd like to kindly welcome others to comment on the above question of mine. One of the experts whose opinion I'd value particularly high is Doug Jensen - the more so that, unlike Alister, he is a great evangelist of getting the picture right while shooting in the field, rather than leaving everything "to be fixed in post" :)

Thanks in advance,

Piotr

Why does everyone seem to think I like to fix everything in post? Yes, I like to grade as I can eek out those small nuances that are hard to get right when you shoot, but most of my PP's are designed to generate a useable image straight out of the camera. The use of Cinegammas can make that though as their gamma curves are quite a long way from Rec-709 so there will be a miss-match between reality and the image on the screen, but perhaps that is the look you are seeking.

Anyway I've drifted off.... The FS100's picture profile setting range is courser and more limited that those of the EX's. The processing is also quite different so it makes matching tougher. I did do a PP for an EX1 to get it close to the FS100, but it wasn't perfect and I didn't write down the settings, so at this stage I can't help. Perhaps Doug has dialled them in.

Below is a full set of my latest PMW-350 scene files.

Mainly matrix tweaks.
neut2 is one I like that gives rich primary colours while still reasonably true to life.
Cine1 is a sudo filmic look (crushes blacks)
Film1 is meant to emulate well saturated film stock
DSC-1 is based on Chroma-Du-Monde chart for accurate daylight color
Neut is my first matrix tweak for a less green look and warmer skin tones.
Attached Files
File Type: zip alister 350 scene files1.zip (10.7 KB, 426 views)


How do you open these scene files? I've tried to download them onto my laptop and then open them but to no avail.

I downloaded the file. Then I dragged and dropped it onto an sxs card next to the Bpav folder and not in it but 'no files' continues to show up when the card's put in the camera.
So slightly confused as to why the files don't show up.