Well, I bought my 7D thinking it would only be used along side my A1 and never as my only camera, but after getting it, I never picked up the A1 again. So i sold it and bought more lenses.

This was the big question for me when i was first buying it (to keep the A1 or sell it) and I have now 100% answered that question.
This video was the first thing I made with my 7D. 90-95% of the shots were shot with the 7D, the other 5% was from the A1 before I got the 7D

So here is my line of work + the Canon 7D
Chris Kinsey - The Good Life on Vimeo

Good job Chris. It's no brainer really, as you so ably demonstrated.

Good job Chris. It's no brainer really, as you so ably demonstrated.

It really is a no brainer, but so many people told me to KEEP the A1 and now I want anyone in the same boat that I was in to know that everything and more is possible with the 7D, granted you know how to operate the camera well. I should have sold the A1 from the get-go!

Enjoy - this camera is truly revolutionary. But it also comes with some big limitations. As long as those don't interfere with your work...then have fun shooting away :)

Very well put, Someone just needs to make a sticky thread that gets straight to the point with the hard fact limitations.

There is this thread in the wedding/events forum. Maybe not in this thread but in another thread one DSLR'er had a customer complain because things were "out of focus"--sort of funny--which points out that what pro's think is great may not be viewed as great by the customer who pays the bills. As for dumping the A1, from what I've read also, you probably have to dump the A1 because you brain will be overloaded operating the DSLR. In any case,I wouldn't mind having one!

What sorts of stabilizers or other support gear did you use for the shots in this clip?

There is this thread in the wedding/events forum. Maybe not in this thread but in another thread one DSLR'er had a customer complain because things were "out of focus"--sort of funny--which points out that what pro's think is great may not be viewed as great by the customer who pays the bills. As for dumping the A1, from what I've read also, you probably have to dump the A1 because you brain will be overloaded operating the DSLR. In any case,I wouldn't mind having one!

haha that pretty much made my day, thats funny yet so true, but ehhhh id have to respectfully disagree on the overloaded brain part

It really comes down to the documentary/realistic look vs. the artistic/romantic look. If the customer is a hard-headed type, they might just want to document the event, showing every last boring moment in fine focus. If the customer is soft-hearted, they might prefer the romantic experience.

To me, it makes sense to be able to deliver either look. Just show both styles to the customer and let them choose. If they can't decide, do both and charge double!

I love the look of my 7d ( as well as my letus extreme) and what it can do. But there's no way I would sell my A1 or my h1, until Canon comes out with a new rig. Like John said, different customers/ jobs demand different approaches. I did a low budget commercial shoot yesterday with several locations, testimonials, set ups and challenging audio. I used the XLH1 with the wa hd lens, a wireless lav, couple of lights, and got evrything done quickly- no fuss, no muss. Would i have gotten a nicer look with my Letus extreme, or 7d? Definately. Did I have the time to use a seperate audio recorder , and deal with the other ergonomic issues? No way.
I also do some multicamera event shoots, and the 7d wouldn't work in those situations.

I am trying to refine my 7d set up, and make it more usable in the field or at a wedding. i recently got the Genus rail system, and am using my multirig pro as a shoulder/pod mount. I oredered a rode videomic and will try using it with my Edirol r-09, once I figure out how to attach it toi the shoulder rig.

Bruce yarock

What sorts of stabilizers or other support gear did you use for the shots in this clip?

all 100% handheld, except for the obvious dolly track shots, those were shot with a dolly I made myself

Sweeeet film! Have to ask what is that 4-wheeler he is riding? Looks like a golf cart on steroids!

I'll definitely hold on to the A1s even though it has not seen the light of day in awhile. There are many areas the A1s will excel whereas the 7d may be more of a hinder. Seems like different tools for different jobs. Was filming in a recording studio last week and the 7d dominated in low light performance with L primes. If only the 7d had better audio capabilities.

Sweeeet film! Have to ask what is that 4-wheeler he is riding? Looks like a golf cart on steroids!

I'll definitely hold on to the A1s even though it has not seen the light of day in awhile. There are many areas the A1s will excel whereas the 7d may be more of a hinder. Seems like different tools for different jobs. Was filming in a recording studio last week and the 7d dominated in low light performance with L primes. If only the 7d had better audio capabilities.

Its a kawasaki Terex, and the time lapse part they put much better suspension on it so they could do all that sweet stuff!

and yes yes, everyone does definitely have there reasons to keep the A1, and you definitely do! im just hoping anyone who will be doing stuff like mine can realize what the possibilities are with this amazing piece of a camera, it truelly is a game changing camera, atleast the way I see it, It may not be the god of film right now but its definitely a strong start to a promising future

I love it, god these cams produce such incredible images.

I do wonder about something though. I feel like I see some stuttering in there, anyone else see that? I can see it pretty clearly in the intro sequence? Maybe it's Vimeo?

yea man, im pretty sure thats just vimeo, because I would have noticed it when I was editing it and it was all smooth for sure

I do long-ish form corporate stuff, and have recently bought a 7D to use alongside my A1. After A/B testing, though, I can hardly shoot w/ the A1 anymore. This week, I have a series of interviews for a big production that I'm going to shoot on the 7D with the A1 for sync sound and "backup". My goal is NOT to use the visuals from the A1 at all, but I'll have that choice in post.

Locked-down and with controlled lighting, the 7D is really no trouble at all in these environments. Nobody truly talks for 12-minutes at a time, where I can't break it up. And my clients just LOVE the look of the 35mm DOF. I used to have to fuss and dress up a "set", but now I just put a few things in the foreground and then let the background fall away. Lighting seems easier, too, with just a couple of Omnis and a 300w kicker. I don't think I really need the whole softbox and eggcrate I've been budgeting for. Everything just seems more forgivable when foreground and background in a scene is no longer tack sharp and flattened by the 1/3 " sensors.

But I'll HAVE to hang onto my A1 for those times I need to shoot stuff longer than 12-minute clips (events), need run-and-gun shoots where I can't manage the few INCHES of DOF the 7D gives me, or just need to capture something fast and it does NOT have to be pretty.

These things are game-changers, to say the least.

Cheers,
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions

Why did you get the 7D and not the 5D.

Cheers

Brian, Im glad to hear that someone shares my EXACT reasoning behind not using the A1! the only thing we differ is I dont do events or anything that require more than 12 min so yea

and Simon, I dont know if you meant that question for me or brian, but I chose the 7D because of cause vs. effectiveness, ofcourse everyone knows the 5d is better in low light but I am not willing to pay almost 1K more for it, Also, at the time the 5d did not support 24p, but even though it does now, I would still choose the 7D because the price just seems to be perfect to me! I actually think it is more important to put more money towards amazing lenses rather then shelling out the extra 1K for the 5d, i hope that answers your question

My 7d footage makes my a1 footage look bad. Simple as that. Paticularly when Im including footage from the 7d in my A1 weddings. I would prefer a consistently inferior image, as in a full wedding shot with the a1, or a consitently superior image, as in a full wedding shot with the 7d.
But to mix them is trouble i feel. And im not trying to intercut shots. I had been trying to tackle particular parts of the day with one or the other, and then having a 'feature'.
But the anticlimax when it goes back to A1 footage is difficult to deal with.

Uh-huh. Guess which is which:
http://www.browncowvideo.com/7DvsA1.jpg

Those are frame grabs of a 1080p shoot, NOT stills (which the 7D would obviously kill at).

Here's the full-production [and I couldn't bear to use any of the footage from my XH-A1 (now known as my over-priced field recorder)].
YouTube - Encore Home Styles Longmont Colorado (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzu9DeK-NTA)

Brian, the clothes on the subject in the bottom (assuming to be from the 7D) of the framegrab appears distinctly maroon-ish to me. Did it actually look so in real life or maybe the 7D does suffer from the IR or "near red" problem recording blacks on certain materials?

I do recall that her shirt was blacker than the rendering in the 7D. I did use a Warm Card to alter the skin tones. I'll have to see if I took some still before the WB and if they're maroon-ish too.

Wow Brian that test speaks volumes eh.
At first i thought you were going to shock us and tell us the first still was the 7d and second the A1 but then i slapped myself and all checked out as i knew it would.

Uh-huh. Guess which is which:
http://www.browncowvideo.com/7DvsA1.jpg

Those are frame grabs of a 1080p shoot, NOT stills (which the 7D would obviously kill at).

Here's the full-production [and I couldn't bear to use any of the footage from my XH-A1 (now known as my over-priced field recorder)].
YouTube - Encore Home Styles Longmont Colorado (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzu9DeK-NTA)


What lens did you use for your 7d?

The interview was with the Canon 85mm/1.8. The b-roll was w/ the Canon 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS "kit" lens.

All,

I've spent a considerable amount of time (and resources) getting 2 A1s, the associated mics, and the cinevate 35mm adapter. It certainly is cumbersome, but the HDV workflow I have gotten use to.

Can you all help me through any considerations I may be missing if I think about going toward going the DSLR route?

1. Is there capability to input comparable audio?
2. Is the workflow much more challenging w/ the DSLR (I go straight from A1's tape (or DTE recorder) to FCP and edit?
3. How do you all manage the 12 min limitations (I do weddings every now and then as well)?

The depth of field is awesome, and the images I see look great. I'm really interested in your thoughts/suggestions!!

--Brandon

Audio:

For audio, I recommend the juicedLink CX231 (phantom) or CX211 (no phantom) preamp, a 5D2, and Magic Lantern firmware (to set a fixed gain in the camera). With the 7D or 1D4 (or the 5D2 if you don't want to use ML), you can add on the DN101 to fool the camera into disabling the auto-gain-control. I received my DN101, but haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces yet...

Workflow:

You can edit directly, but the performance will be bad. It's best to transcode to Cineform or ProRes first. On a fast machine, the transcoding is in real time, so if you transcode from the card to the hard drive, it's no slower than ingesting an HDV tape.

12 minute limit:

I do narrative and never record close to 12 minutes at a time.

That said, you can stop and start recordings in a second or two, and you can record as many 12 minute clips on a card as you can fit. If you have multiple cams, you can stagger recordings. If you record audio externally, you can roll the audio continuously and insert some b-roll over the video gap.

Personally, if I did weddings, I'd ask if people wanted a documentary of the wedding, or a romantic impression video. If they want a documentary, make sure to have a standard video camera. If you use a DvSLR as well, keep the aperture narrow and use it as b-roll. If they want a romantic impression, leave the standard camera at home, do your best with the DvSLR (or two), run a wide aperture, and shoot lots of out of focus effects.

DvSLRs do great if you use them to their strengths.

Great points, Jon. I'll add a few more...

I shot a 10.5 minute interview today w/ my 7D that was pushing the limit a bit. It was, by far, the longest take I've made so far in the 7-8 shoots I've done w/ the 7D, but I was ready to tell the talent to take a little break. Should save me time in the long-run... "yup, gotta stop here. I think I have enough. You were great!" A one-hour tape doesn't give me that. ;-)

At 90 feet per minute, 35mm film has a similar runtime for 1000' reels. So Hollywood has dealt with this limitation forever.

I just ordered the Tascam DR-100 and will do double-sound. 24-bit/48kHz will give quite a bit of headroom... AND flexibility. I can now put the audio closer to the sound source (or sound board) for the few events I shoot. Slating takes isn't too onerous, nor is syching waveforms in post. And now I can run VO sessions or grab some "wild" audio, easily.

Brandon, the DSLR format can be a pain if you're used to a pro video cam. But it can also be liberating in some ways, too. It's this tiny, unassuming, amazing camera. Having both an HDV AND an DSLR will let you do all sorts of amazing things. And not having to mess with that 35mm adapter will have you doing cartwheels, I think.

You can rent a 7D or 5D2 for maybe $60/day and just try it out on a mock shoot (or a REAL one, if you're really brave). Run the sound through your A1, and A/B test the resulting footage.

Cheers,
Brian Brown

Brandon,
I do all types of jobs, including a wedding or two each month. I have 2 A1's, one permanently with the letus xetreme. I also have an H1.

I bought my 7d a couple of months ago, and like everyone else, am blown away by the dof conrol and image. I've slowly been integrating it into some jobs, and a couple of weddings. I' have my share of out of focus footage.

The 7d is very challenging, especially focus, and there's no way i would get rid of my other cameras right now. When I'm doing a run and gun or non repeatable event, I need , above all to be in focus. I grap my A1 or H1. When I have time to do set up interviews, broll,beauty shots, or time to focus, I'll go with the 7D. I'd like to use it more, but I don't feel comfortable enough for it to be my go to camera.

The audio is a pain until some firmware is available. You're pretty much stuck doing double sound. I've used one of my cameras for the good audio, and also taken advantage of a safety or 2nd cam for the shot. I have a sounddevices 302 and an edirol r-09, but that's more work than one person can handle. the rode video mic is a great deal, and sounds a lot better than the on board 7d mic, when plugged in directly.

For workflow, we have to transcode with neoscene then edit in premiere Cs3.
You need a substantial bit of accessories for the 7d.

I went with:
4 lenses-canon 17-55 2.8, 70-200 2.8 ( both is), Tokina 11-16 2.8 and a canon 50mm 1.4.
Zacuti Z finder
Rails ( already have a ffocus)
Singh Ray adjustable nd filter ( for keeping open iris oiut side- shallow dof in sunlight)
Rode video mic.
I alrady have a DV multirig pro, which I've adapted for shoulder support use.
I had been wanting the glidetrack which i just got, and it's fantastic with the 7d.

In conclusion, I'm very comfortable using the 7d in controlled situations, but at jobs where I need to be fast and get good focus, I'm not comfortable yet,
Bruce Yarock

Bruce, do you plug in the Rode Videomic directly into the 7D and get acceptable sound? You don't use an external audiorecorder like the Zoom or Tascam, nor a Juicedlink pre-amp?

Michiel,
I haven't had to use important audio yet on most of the stuff I've done with it. On a 2 day day interview job I did for another producer, we used a second camera for the audio, running a boom mic and wireless into the 2nd camera. Right now, if I had to do quality audio, I could do one of the following:

1- Plug the rode ( or another mic) directly into my Edirol, and use the on board mic for reference.
2- Use a second camera for audio with the rode directly into the 7d for back up and reference, or
3- Run the mics into my sounddevices 302, and record the output to the edirol. That would be more work, but probably best. Still keeping the rode into the 7d.

With all the money I've already spent and all thge crap I already have, I can't see buying another recorder. I also don't see the juicedlink as an option untill the firmware lets you turn off the auto gain control. I also don't want to spend another $300 on a zoom, unless I had a good job that justified it.

On a lot of stuff I use a shot gun on one channel and wireless on the other. My only options would be a 2nd camera or the sds302.
Bruce Yarock

Hey Bruce, thanks for your explanation. How do you sync your main (Edirol or another cam) audio with the 7D reference audio in CS3; did you use a slate during filming, and/or just align your waveforms afterwards? I've heard you can sync audio automatically with PluralEyes software, but to my knowledge it's not (yet) available for Premiere.

A slate or clap is best. What I did on the inetrviews was a vebal followed by a clap, since I didn't bring a slate.
Roll camera, then say-
"Michiel inetrview in kitchen, take one" then a clap. The clap is usually enough to align the audio.
Bruce Yarock

I use PPro CS4, so not automatic aligning plug-in for me. Just drag the clips onto the timeline, zoom into the timeline so that a second or two fills the whole screen, then highlight one clip and hit <alt> left-or right arrow to move the audio frame by frame left or right. Visually, I can get it to the nearest frame, usually. Play the audio back with both tracks on and you'll hear an echo if it's not to the nearest frame.

PPro also has the ability to use audio time units instead of frames IF you don't have a linked video track with it. Then you can align audio to the nearest sample (48,000 "frames" per SECOND).

Then, just mute the DSLR track, and you're golden.

Jon, Brian, Bruce, Michael …

Thank you each for your quick & thorough responses. It certainly sounds as though the 7D would compliment, not necessarily replace my system. Testing would likely be the best thing I need to do. Your responses have prompted a few additional questions! Just a be more detail about my setup for reference.

- Cinevate proteus rails system, Zacuto rails and read double mount (w/ articulating arm)
- Rode mic NTG, G2 mic
- Nikon prime old school lenses (50mm, 105mm, 24mm)
- Nikon DSLR zoom lenses (18-55mm, 70-200mm)
- Focus Info DTE recorder (HDV HD)

1. HDV B-Roll
Do B-roll clips work integrate seamlessly w/ the look from the 7D? I've seen a few threads about the challenges therein. Also, I am assuming the HDV footage would then have to be converted to ProRes to edit in a single timeline? (I haven't dealt w/ ProRes at all before, just hear about the amount of data it takes up).

2. Moving Shots
My first project will likely be a music video for which I think I'd exclusively shoot w/ the 7D (love the shallow DOF w/o the cumbersome setup). I must admit I"m excited, but a bit concerned about the "rolling shutter" I hear about. Much of an issue here? I'm especially thinking about w/ the Steadicam Merlin I've invested in.

3. Slow Motion
I've seen a bit of the footage in slow mo from the 7D. Looks good, but I hear about shooting it in 720 as opposed to 1080. Is this an issue wrt integrating it into the same project? It sounds as though it must be pre-considered vs slowing footage not originally intended for slo' mo'.

4. Audio
3. I have a Rode shotgun mic and a Senheiser wireless G2 … is it required I have one of the adapters you mention (Edirol/Tascam) or can I have it plugged directly to the 7D input. I'd hate to have separate gear (or run my other camera); but it sounds as though audio goes separate from the video when it comes to shooting w/ the 7D?

5. Lens Selection?
I have a few Nikon prime lenses (50mm, 105mm, 24mm). I also have 18-55mm Nikon and 70-200mm that go with my Nikon D60. I'm hearing great things about the the Tokina wide. Should I get the default 18-135mm lens, or look to something more particular? My guess is the 18-135 would be good to start w/ and then I can start thinking about adapters. I just want to maximize my previous investments.

Sorry for the long post, but I think framing the additional questions may help. I appreciate your suggestions!!!

In regards to the 12 minute clip for weddings, early in the day, make sure you ask the Best Man and Maid of Honor how long their toasts will be. Start/Stop in between their toasts.

Jon, Brian, Bruce, Michael …
Sorry for the long post, but I think framing the additional questions may help. I appreciate your suggestions!!!

Mind you, I do not have the 7D yet, but because like you, I'm planning to buy one soon, I have been doing a lot of research, so it's not from personal experience, but from other sources.

1. From what I hear, the difference between mid or even high-end HDV cams (like the A1) and the 7D can be huge. Still, I won't think mixing it is gonna be a major problem if you're looking for a creative solution. In a videoclip, you could play around with b/w and filters in post-production, thereby covering up quality differences in the footage.

2. Look at this video from another forum member named Jad. YouTube - Fireflies Vision Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ZgaFuHoTU)
See rolling shutter? I don't. I think the rolling shutter issue is no big problem in the real world, but I think once you notice it, then you're going to notice it every time, and it's stuck on you like an itching insect. However, I think your clients won't notice, and from what I hear, even the famous Red seems to have rolling shutter issues.

3. Most people convert slowmo 720p to 1080p footage in post, rather than downconvert everything to 720p.

4. Lots of topics on the audio issue; since I don't have my 7D yet, can't speak from experience. Most users use an external audio recorder, which could also give you a lot of flexibility. I think you have to test for yourself, if you plug your mics directly in the 7D and it sounds okay to you, it's fine. Since I don't need XLR inputs yet, I think I'm going with the Zoom H2, which is a lot cheaper than the Zoom H4N.

5. The Canon 18-135 kitlens is reasonbly good, although not very fast, which means you need extra lights when shooting indoors. Outdoors you should be fine. I'm thinking of getting the Canon 17-55IS or the Tamron 17-50VC, both 2.8 lenses thus faster. Also the Canon 15-85IS seems to be a great lens, but with the same limitations as the 18-135. But I think you can use your Nikon primes as well with a convert (don't know for sure).

All in all, from what I gather here, the 7D really is a fantastic camera, capable of shooting footage which will leave you (and your clients) behind in shock and awe. I think it really is the next level. But you have to tame it first, and learn its quirks and needs. After all, it's NOT a dedicated videocamera, so it takes a different approach than an ordinary HDV-cam.
And as always, it's not the paintbrush which makes a great painting, it's the painter...

I've been filming for years now with regular cams, from 8mm to HDV, as a serious hobbyist (I'm by no means a professional yet), but I've done a few scripted short movies, and every shoot I learn a little more, get a little bit more professional, using lights, better audio, color correction. I'm beginning to feel restrained by the limitations of HDV (quality wise, DOF, lowlight) and therefore I feel ready to make the next leap, for the 7D...

For audio, either get an external recorder or use an active preamp. On the 5D2, you can use Magic Lantern to disable the auto-gain-control. It's not available yet for the 7D. In the meantime, you can jam the 7D with a signal in one channel to disable the AGC.

You can view my six-part series here: vimeo.com/5370880

The audio review was extremely informative. If only all media had such thorough reviews. Thanks for sharing. I'll be looking into the different mounting configurations that the juicedlink or H4N may provide. The combined audio/video that the JL provides is certainly enticing.

Thanks again ...

--Brandon