If I wanted to produce a better image from my ex1r which should I purchase granted that I cannot purchase both.

My interest is making short and feature length films. But due to monetary reasons I will often be doing other projects in order to make money.

Thanks.

None is necessary to make money with the EX camera - you're lucky you have orders!

My advise: make some money first with the naked camera, then buy both :)

Nanoflash if you are supplying broadcasters. DOF unit if you have plenty of time to shoot an item. Neither if standard 35mbits is ok for client and most work will be run and gun.

fair enough lol. BUT which one would affect the image more? and in regard to the 35mm adaptor I see that you use the letus correct? which lenses do you use with it?

Of course, both affect the image - but the influenece of a 35mm adapter is more obvious to the eye.

Yes, I'm using the Letus, and can sincerely advise that you buy something else (like the RR Encore M2)...

This is a purely selfish reason. My work is fine with the 35mbs but When I do a feature length film I would like to get the best out of my camera. Sorry I wasnt very clear on that.

I answered one of your posts at another forum and held back with this since you didn't ask a "this or that" type question about the adapter. If I had my heart firmly set on an adapter, I'd only go with a spinner. Wait the extra week for the Blade to come in the post.

Really, really soul search as to whether you NEED the adapter for your work. A lot of fine footage out there shot on adapters would be equally fine without them because the story is good, lighting is done well and/or the scenery is captivating. I, for one, have grown tired of needless focus pulls and out of focus stuff simply because it can be done. I deployed my adapter rig this week to shoot interviews and found I liked the naked footage better. The out-of-focus background just didn't add anything to what was happening. Why?: because I took the time to set up the scene so the background was not distracting in the first place and I lit it properly.

There's a huge amount of hype (still) around adapters and the V-DSLRs. But will they honestly improve the product, that is the question we must ask. I bought into the adapter hype before learning about lighting and properly setting up interviews and scenes. It's a nice gadget and I like gadgets. But I think I'm benefiting more from my recent light purchase and taking more time to plan shots. Get lights first, if you don't have them.

Also, the adapter requires a boatload of light indoors. There's a reason why most of the pretty shorts are outdoors: there's ample light. In my experience, you'll need at least 2 good lights if you want to shoot anything indoors with an adapter.

If I could roll back the clock by 6 months, I'd skip the adapter, buy lights and wait for all this DSLR hoopla to settle down and they work out the moire, aliasing and codec issues.

Can't speak to Nanoflash. No one has complained of the images out of my "naked" EX-1. Spend the weekend watching some documentaries, Vimeo, shorts etc. My guess is there's more great footage shot without the adapter than with because people invested the time in the script, design and lighting and not the gadget.

Good luck.
Bob

This is an interesting discussion.

I have a 5DmkII and I use that when I need shallow DOF and a normal to wide angle lens. The 5D codec does very well when a large part of the frame is OOF, but it is terrible when everything needs to be sharp especially with lots of horizontal lines. The 5D also is wonderful in low light.

The EX cams with a NanoFlash are fantastic cameras, and the color quality and the lack of compression noise is unrivaled by anything else in this price class.

I often use the EXcams to shoot narrow DOF, for interviews etc. Just back up and use a good set of sticks. You need more room but the effect can be very nice.

A lot of times just slightly soft BG is nice and the EXcams can do this very easily in the normal to slight tele range. It is a good idea to have a good field monitor when shooting like that to make sure focus is right. You can cheat by focusing closer then subject and letting the slightly stopped down lens just barely bring subject into focus (be careful if you try this). I try never to use larger than f5.6 on my EX1R or EX3, best seems to be around f2.8.

My nickels worth. So I vote for Nanoflash and a 5DmkII or 7D for NDF.

I agree with Olaf, and also use the EX 1/3, an HDX 900 but really like to use he Canon 5DmkII.
The Letus made a nice image but was too cumbersome to use regularly. When you consider the price of all the rails mounts and plates to make the Letus really work well you'll find it adds up to less than the cost of the 5D.
The Nanoflash is wonderful and works particularly well on the HDX 900, making great images and giving me the redundancy of tape and CF cards.

Skip the adaptor. It eats up WAY too much light. For the same money as the adaptor, buy a Canon 5D M2 and lenses. (you have to buy 35mm lenses with the Letus anyway)

I've used ours since January and I'm tired of melting my talent just so I could stop-down 1-stop from shooting wide open (VERY shallow depth of field)

Oddly enough I've been doing similar evaluations for the same reasons. I've looked at adapters, vDSLRs and the Nanoflash to "up my game" and even though I can afford more than one of these at a time I have decided against all of them for the time being. Instead, I have focused on exploiting the capabilities of the EX-1 itself to get the DOF appropriate for the shot. I haven't really bought into the razor thin DOF craze and only see it as having limited artistic value. If you spend a lot of time watching movies and documentaries whether they be new or old rarely do you see razor thin DOF used. So, I've spent more time concentrating on the other elements of cinematography that make it look professional including lighting, composition, camera movement, editing and color grading.

I'm a lover of gadgets as well and as such would like nothing more than having a collection of lenses to play with but I'm waiting to see how things shake out in the next year or two with the marriage of FF35 sensors and pro video camera features. Scarlet is one option obviously but Canon has really kicked over the apple cart and I suspect its just a matter of time where we see this happen in a package for less than $10k including lenses. That may be crazy talk to some but even the most casual observer can see where the current trends are heading.

So my thoughts, spend time on studying film old and new and master the other elements of good cinematography. As far as gadgets go, I'm looking into camera movement devices next. I haven't settled on anything yet but I'm looking at dollies, jibs and steadicams. I too would recommend a monitor to help with focus. I just picked up a DP1 and am quite happy with what it does in terms of making my focus work more accurate. Just my two cents...

Skip the adaptor. It eats up WAY too much light. For the same money as the adaptor, buy a Canon 5D M2 and lenses. (you have to buy 35mm lenses with the Letus anyway)

I've used ours since January and I'm tired of melting my talent just so I could stop-down 1-stop from shooting wide open (VERY shallow depth of field)

I'm shocked to see you say this. I thought you were happy and productive with your Ultimate.

But I'm right there with you. My frustration is that it adds a level of complexity to mount-unmount-calibrate etc etc that takes the fun out of the whole process for me. I only have one camera, so going back and forth from adapter to naked is a PITA. And as you said, you need a LOT of light when filming indoors, so now you have to factor in the logistics of setting up a lighting kit every time you want to shoot.

So my thoughts, spend time on studying film old and new and master the other elements of good cinematography. As far as gadgets go, I'm looking into camera movement devices next. I haven't settled on anything yet but I'm looking at dollies, jibs and steadicams. I too would recommend a monitor to help with focus. I just picked up a DP1 and am quite happy with what it does in terms of making my focus work more accurate. Just my two cents...

Spot-on. I did it arse backwards, starting with the adapter and then learning about lighting and movement.

William: consider taking the money (the adapter kit you referenced at the other forum was $5k) and getting some lights {take a shoot over to my blog, I just wrote about this this morning...Robert Kerner’s Blog (http://robertkerner.wordpress.com) }and perhaps a nice dolly. Unless you have that stuff already. But I bet you'll find as others have mentioned here that there are other ways to get a great image without the adapter.

I answered one of your posts at another forum and held back with this since you didn't ask a "this or that" type question about the adapter. If I had my heart firmly set on an adapter, I'd only go with a spinner. Wait the extra week for the Blade to come in the post.

Really, really soul search as to whether you NEED the adapter for your work. A lot of fine footage out there shot on adapters would be equally fine without them because the story is good, lighting is done well and/or the scenery is captivating. I, for one, have grown tired of needless focus pulls and out of focus stuff simply because it can be done. I deployed my adapter rig this week to shoot interviews and found I liked the naked footage better. The out-of-focus background just didn't add anything to what was happening. Why?: because I took the time to set up the scene so the background was not distracting in the first place and I lit it properly.

There's a huge amount of hype (still) around adapters and the V-DSLRs. But will they honestly improve the product, that is the question we must ask. I bought into the adapter hype before learning about lighting and properly setting up interviews and scenes. It's a nice gadget and I like gadgets. But I think I'm benefiting more from my recent light purchase and taking more time to plan shots. Get lights first, if you don't have them.

Also, the adapter requires a boatload of light indoors. There's a reason why most of the pretty shorts are outdoors: there's ample light. In my experience, you'll need at least 2 good lights if you want to shoot anything indoors with an adapter.

If I could roll back the clock by 6 months, I'd skip the adapter, buy lights and wait for all this DSLR hoopla to settle down and they work out the moire, aliasing and codec issues.

Can't speak to Nanoflash. No one has complained of the images out of my "naked" EX-1. Spend the weekend watching some documentaries, Vimeo, shorts etc. My guess is there's more great footage shot without the adapter than with because people invested the time in the script, design and lighting and not the gadget.

Good luck.
Bob

Great Post, fantastic advice.

Bob: I do feel guilty with the money we spent on the adapter. I'm glad we did splurge for the relay lens. I still love the shallow DOF look, but the loss of light is a major pain. I'm sick of shooting wide open (and slightly out of focus)

I am sold on the shallow DOF look though. I'm normally shooting in doors and it really makes the talent pop. Without the adapter on the EX3 I still get a bit of blur in the background, but not enough to make the subject pop. This is especially a problem in small rooms.

Personally, I'd go for lights and a camera dolly before even considering an adapter. In the end, they're going to have more overall visual story telling impact.

I have to disagree. The look I got with the adapter was inspiring. I'd been shooting for 20 years and my job had become just a pay check. But the look (and compliments) I got when we switched to the adapter really motivated me to step my skills up a notch. I'm hooked now and my job has become my fun hobby again.

I do agree that you can make a feature length film without an adapter (or vDSLR), there's a lot more to it than just the camera rig....that's for sure!

My initial response to the O.P's question was does he want to improve the image quality (NanoFlash) or degrade the image (DoF adapter). But that's not really very helpful.

IMHO I have yet to see a DoF adapter that gives a pleasing image on a big screen. Yes you can get super shallow DoF, but they trade that off against overall softness and grain. If your shooting a talking head then its reasonably easy to create a matte in the edit and drop the background out of focus without sacrificing foreground sharpness. I would rather go the DSLR route if I wanted shallow DoF, but they have another set of issues.

Small lateral camera moves will give the illusion of depth and almost convey a sense of 3D to a scene. I would spend the money on a dolly or small jib first.
There are lots of other things you can do to make your footage stand out or more filmic. Diffusion filters such as Pro Mists. Old fashioned tricks like vaseline on an optical flat to add blur to specific regions of the image. Graduated filters and vignettes. Many of these effects can now be added in post. Also the way you grade the final video has as big an effect on the final product as DoF. If you want to do a lot of messing around in post then you need the best quality recording that you can get and that's where the NanoFlash comes into it's own.

Having said all that there is so much you can do without lots of money. Borrow a wheelchair for dolly type moves, get some optical flats and vaseline, try stretching tights over the lens. Look at the grading tutorials on the RedGiant software site. Then when you have found the look you know you want spend the money on the tools that will make it easy to do.

I've just been watching "Hombre" on TV, no shallow DOF, just great use of framing and space.

If every indie is out there shooting with a 35mm adapter, you should be thinking about something different to standout from the crowd.

If you're planning to show your film on a big screen the Nanoflash, for small screen stuff you can live with the degraded 35mm adapter effect.

I agree. Adding movement to your shots is arguably just as important as the shallow DOF. But now we're talking about personal taste.

I suspect more important, camera movement has been used by generations of film makers from the days of silent cinema. Unfortunately, shallow DOF stands the risk of becoming, the zoom, smoked sets, shaky cam i.e. a fashion that's overused and the latest new thing until the next new thing. You can usually tell a period by the use of these devices and there often reaches a point when they're being used for no purpose than to be in with the fashion. You really have to question why you're using a technique and if it's the best way of doing a particular film or scene. The creative bit is coming up with something new or telling an old story in a way that's truly your own.

I've been discovering recently for myself how powerful even simple camera moves can be. Been kind of a revelation, so I'm with the dolly/jib group. I also agree that the shallow dof thing has taken on a disproportionate significance for a lot of people. Shallow dof can certainly help some shots, but it's become a bit of a fetish.

...it depends.

It depends on a lot of other issues that have not been brought up by the OP. What sort of stuff will you be shooting? A 'feature' doesn't really answer the question by itself.
And what else do you have or will have available?

I totally agree that lights and a dolly are significantly more important that either of the two items under discussion. Steadicam? HMI's? kino's? Dolly? Perhaps all this is on hand already.

My thoughts are that an EX-3 would be a better choice, so that a real 35 adapter could be mounted directly and not thru a zoom lens. You can also get wider lenses and super tele lenses.

If I had to choose between letus, nano or some sort of camera mover; I'd choose the camera mover first. Dolly or steadicam or maybe crane. Far ahead of some trick lens.

Lots of good advice here. I too have been tempted to go either with the adapter or the Nanoflash but have decided to save up for a nanoflash and just work on ways to operate my ex1 with more precision and skill. I have a track, and a jib, and am working on a steadicam because I am really sold on the art of camera movement. With respect to camera movement I would highly recommend Hollywood camera works High end blocking and staging. I am studying it and trying diferent experiments every time I set up my gear. I think that it's going to make the difference between ok work and wow that was a great movie! That being said I am also trying to make my camera work, lighting, and blocking as invisible as possible so that I am not competing or distracting from the story but helping to tell it along with the writer/director. Here is the link to their site. Hollywood Camera Work - Film Directing, Film School, Camera Blocking, Cinematography (http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us/)

Wow! great advice everyone I really appreciate it and am starting to see many of the things everyone has pointed out. Thanks again.

So I started doing some research and I know some of you mentioned dollies and stabilization systems in order to achieve movement with my shots and I was hoping some of you had some recommendations as to which brands are well known for these and or ones you have used personally.

I was looking at this steadicam: Steadicam | Pilot-AA Camera Stablization System | PILOT-AA | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/494659-REG/Steadicam_PILOT_AA_Pilot_AA_Camera_Stablization_System.html#features)

I think now my focused has changed to what additional tools (whatever they may be) will help me achieve great images.

As with most gear, if you can rent it first to see if it meets your needs you'll be a step closer to answering the question whether you need it.

There's a ton of information on forums about dollies etc. The dolly, steadicam forum here is very active. The Steadicam, from what I've read, takes a fair amount of practice and that explains why on some productions there's a dedicated operator.

You might try constructing one from a DIY project to see if it meets your needs, before spending four grand on one. There's oodles of instructions here:
How to Make steadicam - Instructables search Instructables (http://www.instructables.com/tag/?sort=none&limit%3Atype%3Aid=on&q=steadicam)

Yes, they are made out of pvc pipe and old monopods etc. But a $40 investment and a few hours of work could save 100 times that amount if you build one and decide it's not what you need. I built a dolly for $185 out of plywood and pvc. Looks like crap but it works. More importantly, the project taught me I don't need a floor dolly to move my tripod and camera on, I need something more compact with just a short run, like a slider. And I realized I don't want to haul all that crap around with me. At some point it's easier to rent a grip truck or ask for help from someone who has the stuff! Having explored my options by DIY-ing it first, I now know what I want in a professional product.

It might help, as Ed pointed out, if we knew what types of projects you do or want to do.

Very true Bob. Well at the moment I have been filming events during Art Basil and hopefully Artopia. My group and I are in the process of shooting a short film and would like to continue to do that and feature films as well. So I guess to answer your question I am doing some narrative work and some commercial work. Hope that helps.

Nanoflash will have only a very marginal affect on your image quality. You probably won't be able to see it most cases. A 35mm adapter despite the flaw of losing light allows you to make some very beautiful images that are completely different from what you can do without it.
If the choice is between those 2 I would choose an adapter.

there's a reason a steadicam or glidecam cost vastly more that $40. If you are interested in a steadicam rig, try to get access to a real one locally and try it out. It is a lot to master so expect it to be overwhelming at first.

I don't see you running a Letus/RedRock 35mm Rig on a Steadycam. So the question is really what do you plan to do? And the 35mm adapters cant address the fact that the stock lens has some distortion on its widest side, so you are always going to be shooting through that limitation. If you have some control over your staging, the DOF is quite nice with the 1/2" chips, heck the 5D is almost TOO shallow sometimes IMO.

I used a Glidecam 4000 and the steadyshooter vest with my EX1 and it was an excellent setup.

The Nano will be excellent especially if you shoot scenes with lots of movement, for talking heads it can wait.

Probably the best bang for the buck is to build a dolly, and then get a Hi Hat from someone like Filmtools.com. I would not use PVC, but lots of people do. I used 10' 1.5" electrical conduit and welded in supports so that it looks like a real dolly track. but the 1.5" is rigid, and most of the time an apple box or crate under either end is all that is necessary, it will not sag and require all kinds of work to level like a PVC track. If you are working on various locations from rocks, to sand, to parking lots, the PVC is a pain.


Check out the Cineslider from Kessler Cranes, this thing is amazing. With two fluid heads (one on your tripod with the Cineslider attached and the other on the Cineslider itself) you can perform some excellent camera moves without help. No you cant jib up 10', but simply moving the camera down 2' while panning can add a lot of production value to a shot and it is something you can do without an assistant with this setup. It is also excellent for dollying on very tight long lens shots. The crank will allow you to pull the camera along smoothly, especially with a DSLR where a normal dolly is just too heavy duty and hard to control with so little weight (unless you sandbag the dolly).