Please specify 2 mics (or 1 mic, if V1E mic will do for 1) I could use through my V1E to simultaneously record good sound quality of a jazz vocalist and accompanist to allow separate editing with Premiere Elements or Adobe Audition?

I have read several threads here and reports of audio projects, offering sophistication and complication in language I do not wish to learn.
If you can give me the simple life I would appreciate it. Tips within a simple framework would be welcome too. Piano is a good upright. I have a Shure SM58 but I don't know if it's relevant even if I knew how to connect it to V1E.

Brendan,

Without any "sophistication and complication in language" that you do not wish to learn, then I recommend you just use the mic on your camcorder. Audio is a lot more than pointing 2 mics at something and get a better recording. You also do not specify what kind of budget you have. So I will recommend for the vocalist that you use a Neumann U47, probably costing around $4000 and up. That's a standard studio mic for jazz vocalists. Then for the piano, I would actually recommend using two mics so you get stereo. Earthworks has a wonderful piano set that goes for about $3600. Of course, then you would need a mixer, etc. I'm not intending to sound harsh, just wanting you to think through what you are asking a little more. Then MAYBE someone can recommend a couple of mics for helping you get started.

Have fun!

Rob

Thank you Rob.

Would someone familiar with the mic inputs on V1E recommend a mic for less than $300, suitable for a vocalist, that might be connected directly or indirectly to the second input, please? If you know the appropriate connector (if necessary) that would help too.

Please specify 2 mics (or 1 mic, if V1E mic will do for 1) I could use through my V1E to simultaneously record good sound quality of a jazz vocalist and accompanist to allow separate editing with Premiere Elements or Adobe Audition?

I have read several threads here and reports of audio projects, offering sophistication and complication in language I do not wish to learn.
If you can give me the simple life I would appreciate it. Tips within a simple framework would be welcome too. Piano is a good upright. I have a Shure SM58 but I don't know if it's relevant even if I knew how to connect it to V1E.

You can have good or you can have simple - rarely can you have both at once. Would you expect to get good quality images from your camera without learning how to use all of its controls, menu options, etc, what all of those technical terms like "iris" and "white balance" and "focus" mean, and also something about the techniques of setting up lighting, picture composition, and so forth? I doubt it. So why do you think you can get good quality sound in a somewhat complex micing and recording situation (jazz vocalist, upright piano) without learning something about the technology and techniques you need to use to accomplish those goals? Your camera isn't point, switch on, and forget - what makes you think sound is any different?

What circumstances are you going be shooting? Is this a concert or recital you're going to be shooting with relatively little control over the performance and staging, a club venue, or is it more of a controlled studio type situation where you can position the performers and mic them to optimum effect? If it's a concert/recital, will there be a front-of-house PA system in use?

What is the intended purpose of the shoot? Do you just want a record of the performance or do you want something you'd watch repeatedly specifically to listen to the music, like you'd watch a concert special on TV or play a music CD?

I'm assuming you want a final product that's stereo. If this is a studio sort of situation where the performance is specifically for you to make the video, I'm thinking you're going to need 3 mics - one for the vocalist and a stereo pair for the piano. Of course, that means you're going to need a mixer and/or a multitrack recorder as well as the mics. You can either mix "on-the-fly" and record a stereo mix in the camera or you can record all three mics separately on a multitrack recorder and then mix them in Audition or some other audio program. If you're capturing an event such as a concert where you have to work with what you find, then perhaps a stereo mic or a stereo pair on the stage lip is going to be more appropriate.

Here's a couple of articles in Sound on Sound magazine on micing uprights...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr09/articles/uprightpianos.htm
Q. How do you record Upright Piano? (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct07/articles/qa1007_5.htm)
Piano Recording (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pianorecording_0108.htm)

Thank you Steve for encouraging me to think; you wrote ...

"What circumstances are you going be shooting? Is this a concert or recital you're going to be shooting with relatively little control over the performance and staging, a club venue, or is it more of a controlled studio type situation where you can position the performers and mic them to optimum effect? If it's a concert/recital, will there be a front-of-house PA system in use?" ....

Situation will finally be in a recording studio, where I would expect the equipment to be pro standard. Situation I wish to monitor will usually be a 35' x 15' sittingroom during rehearsal. It will never be live public performance. The video content will be less important during rehearsal than the audio which I want to be able to monitor closely, not for sound quality as such, but for the musical (= melody+harmony+rhythm) combination produced by the vocalist and pianist. I will use it to decide, among other things, whether we need bass or guitar and/or brushes and thereafter which combination will work musically (not for sound quality but for musical content).

I will now read the articles you linked though I suspect in advance that they were published to encourage people to spend money on technical sound sophistication rather than quality of music. It is not unusual for the professionals in an industry to be shy to be seen to recommend the basic gear for the small private situation (not the final product). I would still be grateful if some one had a go at it.

... Situation will finally be in a recording studio, where I would expect the equipment to be pro standard. Situation I wish to monitor will usually be a 35' x 15' sittingroom during rehearsal. It will never be live public performance. The video content will be less important during rehearsal than the audio which I want to be able to monitor closely, not for sound quality as such, but for the musical (= melody+harmony+rhythm) combination produced by the vocalist and pianist. I will use it to decide, among other things, whether we need bass or guitar and/or brushes and thereafter which combination will work musically (not for sound quality but for musical content).

I will now read the articles you linked though I suspect in advance that they were published to encourage people to spend money on technical sound sophistication rather than quality of music. It is not unusual for the professionals in an industry to be shy to be seen to recommend the basic gear for the small private situation (not the final product). I would still be grateful if some one had a go at it.

How do you expect to be able to evaluate it musically if what you hear when you listen to the recording isn't up to par technically so what you're hearing is what the music actually sounds like? Could you evaluate, for example, if you need more or less brushes if the recording was made on an old, tinny Edison wax-cylinder phonograph? Extreme example to be sure but there are good reasons that professional recording studios spend $5000 each on "technically sound sophisticated" monitor speakers instead of relying on $20 big-box computer store "multimedia" speakers. As a profit making enterprise if they could get by with cheap they certainly would do it but they can't. You're in much the same situation - you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. To evaluate the musical nuances you must make a good enough recording that you actually CAPTURE those nuances so you can hear them when you listen to the recording. And that means you're gonna have to study up.

Your SM58 is probably going to work well for the vocalist as it is designed basically as a stage vocal mic. I'd suggest removing the back panel of the piano and using a spaced pair of large-diaphram condensor cardioid mics, perhaps something like the Rode NT1a as a high-quality budget mic. Get a small mixer, say one of the Mackie compact mixers, that can handle at least 3 mic inputs and mix to stereo to record in the camera.

Without knowing your level of expertise, If you plan to use the '58 for vocals, and expect it to sound decent, must be relatively close to, (within about 30 centimeters) and pointed directly at the singer's 'pie hole'. (new technical terminology )

To evaluate the musical nuances you must make a good enough recording that you actually CAPTURE those nuances so you can hear them when you listen to the recording. And that means you're gonna have to study up.

I'm sticking to what I know here ... it's the actual sequence of notes as sung and played in combination ... I/we need to consider the choice of notes (small group jazz being so improvisable & largely unwritten) ...

Your SM58 is probably going to work well for the vocalist as it is designed basically as a stage vocal mic. I'd suggest removing the back panel of the piano and using a spaced pair of large-diaphram condensor cardioid mics, perhaps something like the Rode NT1a as a high-quality budget mic. Get a small mixer, say one of the Mackie compact mixers, that can handle at least 3 mic inputs and mix to stereo to record in the camera.

Ok, I'm going to have to study up. I am going to check out Rode NT1a and Mackie compact mixers ... 3 mic inputs must be useful. What you mean by "mix to stereo to record in the camera" I don't understand, yet.

I'm learning from you Steve, thank you.

Placement & pointing of the '58 is good to know, thank you Rick.

For a basic recording you can use what you already have but you will also need some expertise to sort it out in post, recording the vocal on trk1 and the piano on track 2 will allow some flexibility. Better more pro solutions can be done but if I only had an SM58 and a V1 I would do it this way.

The SM58 on the vocal will be fine and it will be used close so you will need to set your levels very carefully an xlr cable will connect this to the V1.

The Camera mic will suffice for the piano but you will need to remove it and mount it on a mic stand to get it close to the piano, once again the levels will need to be right. If you can source a better mic such as a small condenser or even another sm58 that will be better. A rode ntg-1 will be OK as well. Best mic positions for a piano can be found on the web and an xlr ext lead will get it closer.

You will then need to spend some time sorting a good mix out in post, this will need some compression and eq on the vocal mic and some compression and eq on the piano mic.

Adding some stereo reverb or ambience to the mix will open it up and create a stereo image too but this can all be done afterwards.

If you can record the vocal and piano cleanly on the two tracks I could help you out with a mix if you can send me a wav or aiff file of the split tracks, I have a full pro tools rig here so could do you a final mix to add back to your pictures.

Ok, I'm going to have to study up. I am going to check out Rode NT1a and Mackie compact mixers ... 3 mic inputs must be useful. What you mean by "mix to stereo to record in the camera" I don't understand, yet.

...

That's what a mixer does, among other things. It has a number of mic inputs on one hand and 1 (or more) stereo outputs on the other. Each mic input can be directed to output exclusively on either the left channel, the right channel, or somewhere in between - the setting is called the "pan control" and the process is "panning the mic". You would connect the vocal mic to one mixer input channel, and the pair of mics for the piano to 2 more. The vocal mic would be panned to the centre and the two piano mics fully left and right respectively as a starting point, adjusting for the sound you want from there. You set the camera's left and right XLR inputs to "line level" and connect the stereo output of the mixer to them. That particular setup would give you a stereo track in the camera with the piano spread across the soundstage, low registers on one side and high registers on the other, with the vocalist centred on the stage.

This is perhaps a daft question, but if you are shooting it in a recording studio, then could you use their kit to do a live mix - then feed that to the camera? The thing with a jazz combo even if it's piano drums and vocals is that getting the balance right is pretty tricky for a first time audio recorder. Even the drummers kit will make a big difference. I've got a fair amount of experience in recording jazz, and you might find that some kits record well with a single overhead, others need more mics - depends if the skins have the surface still on - sometimes the brushwork is just unheard without it's own dedicated mic. Do you actually want a stereo recording? If so, stereo as in an ambient recording that won't sound 'modern', or stereo as in individually miked, mixed and eq'd sources. Jazz has elements that are quite tricky, and live recording is very difficult. Pop's easy - they mime!

For the studio, it will be an everyday thing, so maybe you could leave the sound with them? any good?

For a basic recording you can use what you already have but you will also need some expertise to sort it out in post, recording the vocal on trk1 and the piano on track 2 will allow some flexibility. Better more pro solutions can be done but if I only had an SM58 and a V1 I would do it this way.

The SM58 on the vocal will be fine and it will be used close so you will need to set your levels very carefully an xlr cable will connect this to the V1.

The Camera mic will suffice for the piano but you will need to remove it and mount it on a mic stand to get it close to the piano, once again the levels will need to be right. If you can source a better mic such as a small condenser or even another sm58 that will be better. A rode ntg-1 will be OK as well. Best mic positions for a piano can be found on the web and an xlr ext lead will get it closer.

You will then need to spend some time sorting a good mix out in post, this will need some compression and eq on the vocal mic and some compression and eq on the piano mic.

Adding some stereo reverb or ambience to the mix will open it up and create a stereo image too but this can all be done afterwards.

If you can record the vocal and piano cleanly on the two tracks I could help you out with a mix if you can send me a wav or aiff file of the split tracks, I have a full pro tools rig here so could do you a final mix to add back to your pictures.

For an amateur like me this is the clearest insight so far. Thank you Gary very much. It's also very decent of you to offer to use your pro tools for me as well. I wonder what it would cost me to learn to use pro tools limited strictly to my purposes, which may well be repeated a few more times with the same jazz combo. Would you offer a basic tutorial at a reasonable price, by any chance? Anyway, for a start I'll be finding an xlr cable and xlr extension lead ... Q. Can an extension lead directly connect the SM58 with V1E ? If it could, I would use extension leads for voice and for piano to keep them a little further apart. What I mean is ... could I also connect the existing V1E mic to the cam with an xlr extension lead?

Paul. What you say about skins is so true; reminded me of the gorgeous lush whisper created by Jake Hanna behind Scott Hamilton. Wish I had noticed whether he was on a separate mic!

Steve. Thank you for taking the trouble to spell out the input/output routes. I need that sort of detail.

I'd suggest removing the back panel of the piano...

Normally we either just open the lid or take take the lower front panel off (if the pedals don't squeak). I don't think I've ever come across an upright where the back comes off.

...Q. Can an extension lead directly connect the SM58 with V1E ? If it could, I would use extension leads for voice and for piano to keep them a little further apart. What I mean is ... could I also connect the existing V1E mic to the cam with an xlr extension lead?...
Yes and yes. Although, the short shotgun included with the V1 is not a faithful mic for music. Its primary virtue is as an ambience mic. It can be at the end of an xlr cable.

SM58 - XLR cable - one of the V1's audio inputs. Settings for that input: Mic/Line=Mic, Att=0, 48v Phantom=off.

Your camera mic would go into the other input, with the same settings, except that 48v Phantom=on. This would be true for any condensor mic that doesn't have an internal battery.

Paul's suggestion of taking a mix from the audio engineer working on the recording would be the best way to capture this audio. In this case, out from the studio's mixer to your V1 via 1 (mono) or 2 (stereo) XLR cables. Mic/Line=Mic, Att=0, 48v Phantom=off.

If the signal seems too hot, adding Att (attenuation) may help.

In either of these cases, or, almost any other music recording, you'll get a much better recording with manual, not automatic, volume control. You have a good audio meter that you can switch in using the "Status" button - use it and adjust recording volume so that each channel peaks at -12db on the loudest sounds.

Normally we either just open the lid or take take the lower front panel off (if the pedals don't squeak). I don't think I've ever come across an upright where the back comes off.

Should have said, record from the back where the mechanism is exposed, rather than take it off. Senior moment! See the third photo on this link

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr09/articles/uprightpianos.htm

Good advice from Seth there and just to add my 2 cents in laymans terms all you need is two XLR to XLR cables to extend the SM58 and the camera mic (or another mic) and plug one into ch1 and the other into ch2.

A set of headphones is a must so you can hear the inputs and as Seth says you may need to attenuate, also record a test and play it back to check that all is OK the meters may say levels are ok but it is still possible to overload the mic amps.

Training you in pro tools would not be a straight forward task as it is a pro application and I myself am still learning after 30 years as a dubbing mixer as I sue it in pro applications, but if you get yourself an m-box it is a few hundred quid to get the package and it will give you the basics that you need, it will be fun learning it too but it is quite easy as there are training videos available for less than £10. There are also free software packages available and your video edit software may have a few things to enable you to do some post prod on the two tracks.

One other offer to you is that I have boxes of mics lying around here so if you wish to borrow one to suit the piano I can sort you out with something suitable such as an AKG 3000 or a small diaphragm calrec mic. Drop me an e-mail if you need any help but if you are going to do this often it may be worth investing in a small condensor to assist.
One of these should be OK and low cost:"Studiospares" Studiospares S1000 Condenser Studio Mic Only at Studiospares (http://www.studiospares.com/Mics-Condenser/Studiospares-S1000-Condenser-Studio-Mic-Only/invt/449020)
It will need phantom power but your V1 has this, if you scroll down the screen there is a package with lead and stand for less than £100 you then just need another XLR lead and stand for the SM58 but I suspect you may already have these.

I have to say though that the mic that comes with the V1 will be OK as it will have enough bandwidth for such a recording, just make sure that the wind/bass cut is turned off on the camera, OK its not a studio condenser and limited as said but will be OK for a test.

The "from the back" position is often best (if you'll pardon the expression) because it picks up less noise from the pianist :-) a species whose unadvertised extras can include foot tapping, heavy breathing, singing or humming along, curses and other comments as well as the more understandable page turning noises. Of course, if it's authenticity you are after...

Been there...

I'm concerned that a single mic on the piano is not going to capture the entire instrument well, due to the size of the source.

...
"What circumstances are you going be shooting? ...."

Situation will finally be in a recording studio, where I would expect the equipment to be pro standard. Situation I wish to monitor will usually be a 35' x 15' sittingroom during rehearsal. It will never be live public performance. The video content will be less important during rehearsal than the audio which I want to be able to monitor closely, not for sound quality as such, but for the musical (= melody+harmony+rhythm) combination produced by the vocalist and pianist. I will use it to decide, among other things, whether we need bass or guitar and/or brushes and thereafter which combination will work musically (not for sound quality but for musical content).

I...

Been thinking about this as this thread progressed. Why are you shooting the rehearsal? Wouldn't such decisions as to instrumentation, etc, be better made live and in-person as the rehearsal progresses? The final nuances will need to be worked out in the studio during the actual recording, fine-tuning the sound that the studio's mics, mixers, processing, etc are delivering. The full studio is going to deliver a considerably different sound to what you're going to get from a video camera and a couple of mics and any decisions you make off of a rehearsal recording are going to have to be revisited when you do the "for-real" recording in the full-fledged studio anyway. If you're trying to minimize the time spent in an expensive by-the-hour professional studio I don't think you're going to really save very much.

Yes and yes. Although, the short shotgun included with the V1 is not a faithful mic for music. Its primary virtue is as an ambience mic. It can be at the end of an xlr cable.

SM58 - XLR cable - one of the V1's audio inputs. Settings for that input: Mic/Line=Mic, Att=0, 48v Phantom=off.

Your camera mic would go into the other input, with the same settings, except that 48v Phantom=on. This would be true for any condensor mic that doesn't have an internal battery.

.

This is a great help Seth, thank you, all practical instructions of this nature gratefully received.

Gary, you are being thoughtful and generous again. I'll check out that link and try for a condensor mic.

Been thinking about this as this thread progressed. Why are you shooting the rehearsal? Wouldn't such decisions as to instrumentation, etc, be better made live and in-person as the rehearsal progresses? The final nuances will need to be worked out in the studio during the actual recording, fine-tuning the sound that the studio's mics, mixers, processing, etc are delivering. The full studio is going to deliver a considerably different sound to what you're going to get from a video camera and a couple of mics and any decisions you make off of a rehearsal recording are going to have to be revisited when you do the "for-real" recording in the full-fledged studio anyway. If you're trying to minimize the time spent in an expensive by-the-hour professional studio I don't think you're going to really save very much.

By shooting a series of home rehearsals I use my V1E to record the note sequences that we are producing (as vocalist & pianist) ... it's the handiest way I can do it so that I can study each song afterwards, bar by bar, and be guided by the vocalist's timing to tell me when exactly to play which chord or accompaniment ... then I can make notes on MY dots so that I play better next time. I could not hope to make such notes on the run without dragging the vocalist through a litany of stop/starts (& other litanies as well, no doubt).

The sound quality comes afterwards. Here's an example of poor sound quality (presumably because it's YouTube) but note how beautifully the vocalist interpreted and trio accompanied the song ... the audience have little to do with it; the atmosphere doesn't matter a damn; we know the sound distortion will be sorted out later; but what's important comes out where it should be - right on top - the talents of the musicians and the results of their many rehearsals. (I wish they would put it on CD & I'd buy a few copies for friends as well and we could all enjoy the talent with sound quality to match)
YouTube - "One Day I'll Fly Away" - Randy Crawford (2006) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdM3NHDU7Mk)

I'm concerned that a single mic on the piano is not going to capture the entire instrument well, due to the size of the source.

you are correct...unless the mic is a proper distance from the piano.

As a 20 year veteran of music production and recording engineering, I can tell you there are a million ways to mic a piano but only a few will offer up what's considered "good sound" meaning balanced from one end to the other. Even in a controlled studio with a perfect piano and any mic you could ever want, it was incredibly difficult to mic it properly. Any engineer will tell you it's the single most difficult instrument to mic.

That said, since you're on a budget and plan on the sm58 for vocal duty, I'd look at a small mixer like a Mackie, and a stereo mic like a Rode NT-4 or Shure VP88. This will help you in several ways. 2 mics for the piano requires a lot of knowledge on where to place them and if you get it wrong, phasing will occur which will cause dropouts at certain frequencies.
By using one stereo mic, you can pick up the whole piano by placing it a certain distance from the piano. There is no phasing issue with these mics as the heads are fixed in place properly. Also you can safely combine the left/right of the mic to one channel of your camera and put the vocal on the other to keep them separated if necessary.
I've never been a fan of miking the back of the piano, you will find the sound a bit muted and dull, also bass heavy. ideally, open up the top and front of the upright and have the mic above the player's head pointed just above the hammers. Both of the above mentioned mics are fairly directional so isolating them from the vocalist should be easy. The sm58 will take care of itself.

Funny thing is my favorite recordings of piano and vocal were done with one mic, properly placed, in a good sounding room. Those are from the early days of recording and generally a U47, M49 or M50 was the mic. The art was placing the musicians around the mic.
Same with my favorite stereo recordings. 2 mics as a stereo pair, group placed properly around them.
Hope this helps!

Just as a side note this recording I heard a few years ago of a vocalist and a piano with two mics always makes me smile:YouTube - Smile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beWZd0GOw8Q&feature=related)

you are correct...unless the mic is a proper distance from the piano.

As a 20 year veteran of music production and recording engineering, I can tell you there are a million ways to mic a piano but only a few will offer up what's considered "good sound" meaning balanced from one end to the other. Even in a controlled studio with a perfect piano and any mic you could ever want, it was incredibly difficult to mic it properly. Any engineer will tell you it's the single most difficult instrument to mic.

That said, since you're on a budget and plan on the sm58 for vocal duty, I'd look at a small mixer like a Mackie, and a stereo mic like a Rode NT-4 or Shure VP88. This will help you in several ways. 2 mics for the piano requires a lot of knowledge on where to place them and if you get it wrong, phasing will occur which will cause dropouts at certain frequencies.
By using one stereo mic, you can pick up the whole piano by placing it a certain distance from the piano. There is no phasing issue with these mics as the heads are fixed in place properly. Also you can safely combine the left/right of the mic to one channel of your camera and put the vocal on the other to keep them separated if necessary.
I've never been a fan of miking the back of the piano, you will find the sound a bit muted and dull, also bass heavy. ideally, open up the top and front of the upright and have the mic above the player's head pointed just above the hammers. Both of the above mentioned mics are fairly directional so isolating them from the vocalist should be easy. The sm58 will take care of itself.

Funny thing is my favorite recordings of piano and vocal were done with one mic, properly placed, in a good sounding room. Those are from the early days of recording and generally a U47, M49 or M50 was the mic. The art was placing the musicians around the mic.
Same with my favorite stereo recordings. 2 mics as a stereo pair, group placed properly around them.
Hope this helps!

It helps a great deal, thank you, Robert, very much. The voice of relevant experience is hard to beat.

It seems that what I will need most of all in the recording studio, in March hopefully, will be an appropriately experienced sound engineer. In the meantime a Mackie mixer and a Rode NT4 or close alternative(s) will do for home rehearsals, according to a few helpful voices, thank you all.

If you really want a good final recording, my advice would be to dump the upright piano and use a half decent grand. Upright pianos have their tone compromised before you even start to record. Even a boudoir will probably sound better and it's much easier to record. Nobody uses an upright piano for serious recording unless that sound is wanted for some reason.

Or even easier get a Roland HP-2e, it is what my wife uses and you can then take a line out feed to the camera.

I also do the same with drums as I hate trying to mic them up at home, I now use a Roland TD20.

Colin,
I accept your point, not that I understand the engineering principles involved, but because I have just found a studio with a good grand piano and a vocalist room and an engineer who has produced excellent recordings of jazz combos using this piano. I must ask him for an in-house rehearsal or 2 prior to recording.

Gary,
Got XLR to XLR x 2 today and will be testing and practising as advised, not for sound quality at all yet but for note accuracy.

Got XLR to XLR x 2 today and will be testing and practising as advised, not for sound quality at all yet but for note accuracy.

What do you perceive as the difference between "sound quality" and "note accuracy?" To my way of thinking, they are the same thing. Sound quality, to me, means that the recorded notes are as close as possible to the original notes as played - pitch hasn't shifted, tempo is the same, all the harmonics and overtones are present that distinguish the sound of, say, a violin playing middle C from that of an oboe playing the same note and are in the same proportion to the fundamental as the original instruments have them so that the nuance of the individual instruments are present, and there are no hisses, pops, crackles, hums, squeaks and other extraneous sounds to distract from or obscure the desired sounds. Take your piano. Because of the way shotgun mics work indoors in a reflective environment, recording the piano in a normal living room lacking acoustic conditioning using a shotgun mic located 10 or 12 feet away, may result in a mix of direct and reflected sound being recorded that would make it sound tinny (or otoh maybe too bassy) and hollow, like a child's piano recorded in a culvert. That to me would be a loss of "note accuracy" due to the distortion introduced by the poor sound quality of the recording situation

Steve,

This explanation is no more than a simplification but here goes ...

... the melody behind the first four words of the nursery rhyme "Twinkle twinkle little star" is made up of 7 notes, notated below (well-known to many in the northern hemisphere). It could be argued that millions of people could (if the circumstances were right) sing those seven notes in unison with little rehearsal. I would argue that in theory and in practice the permutations for singing those notes in the correct sequence but not in unison are as endless as the chances of winning a national lottery. An example is the Swingle Singers version which includes 5-note variations on each of the 7notes. Mozart who composed that melody within Eine Kleine Nacht Musick (I think) is said to have written the definitive version and all others (incl a million or more kids every bedtime) add their versions.

If I want to play those seven notes on my own, that's my party. But if I want to play them with one other musician or a vocalist we (don't have to but we) should agree how we want the outcome to sound (I'm not talking about sound quality) ... the obvious example is that the 7th note is twice as long as each of the first 6 notes ... but who said so? Mozart said so and we all appear to agree with him whether we are aware of it or not. So these seven notes have other values apart from pitch; a basic value is duration; then comes musical variation such as emphasis and phrasing of the notes. So, before we consider improvisation at all, chaos is just around the corner. And all that must be carefully disciplined and scripted/agreed before we consider sound quality. there's little point in agreeing sound quality before we agree which notes will be played and in what form. So it's the notes and their form I mean by "note accuracy". You might expect that all the content and form would surely be written down in precise detail long before performance. Not so I'm sad to say. Even classical piano (some written 300 years ago) music is available in 2 written forms ... with performance marking and without performance marking. I spent years playing Mozart badly (& lots of other stuff badly) before i was taught the effects created by crescendo/decrescendo, legato/staccato, lente/presto, f/p etc etc These terms are all about form and are called - performance markings. They have a huge effect on content, as you can imagine. For me they add another vital layer to "note accuracy", and should be decided and rehearsed long before sound quality from the instruments (in tune hopefully) is considered. If you're still awake, you can nod off now and thanks for the question.

I understand, but you were saying you weren't worried about sound quality in these recordings. Aren't the nuances of performance that your talking about here exactly what you're seeking to use the recordings to evaluate? If the recordings aren't made to high (technical) sound quality standards, how will you hear the musical elements you just said you were making the recordings to listen to? You've said you don't care about technical sound quality but I'm concerned that the things you want to hear about the performance will be missing from the recording without it.

I have not mentioned "the nuances of performance". I have no clear idea of what that phrase means ... (2 abstract nouns divided by "of" are often vague). I am talking about the notes of music sung and played. I am talking about getting them accurately combined and delivered in time. When that is accomplished through rehearsals, at home for the most part, I am looking forward to rehearsing the final arrangement and recording the "best we can do" in a small studio.

To me, the nuance of a performance is mainly about the timing. Do you play a bit ahead or behind the beat? Does the tempo speed up or slow down near the end of a measure? Emphasis of dynamics on different beats can really change the feel as well.

Modulation of volume and pitch is important on some instruments, but doesn't apply to others. For instance with piano, once the note is played, the only decision is when to stop playing it. Yet, the piano can sound very lyrical or very clumsy, depending on the skill of the player, and that's all about timing and emphasis.

A beginning player has poor timing and poorly controlled dynamics. As a student progresses, they can improve on timing and dynamics, but to me, timing is the most difficult to master. Great timing is what allows a studio musician to lay down a track in one take. Me? I'm never satisfied with my timing!

When programming MIDI (and playing it in live), it's easy to get the dynamics close enough. If one note sticks out or is lost, adjust the velocity by eye, and it's usually good enough. If not, it's easy to nail it on the second pass.

Timing is another story. Quantize to the beat and it sounds mechanical. Play it in with a bit of skill and it's better. But trying to nudge the notes to tighten up the timing yet keep it human is really tough. Delay an early note just slightly and the rest of the phrase can fall apart. Delay the rest of the phrase, and it ends off the beat. You generally have to delay the first note, then delay the next notes a bit less, then less, then less. And it can still sound "off".

Here's a string quartet that I programmed in MIDI (with a specialized solo string library of sounds.) I spent hours and hours polishing it. Yet you can still hear that some of the phrases are a bit mechanical, and those spots are all due to stiff timing.

Spider! - A Composition for String Quartet (http://www.fairhurst.com/jon/music/Spider.html)

Quantize the piece and play it without dynamics and it would be horrid! :)