View Full Version : Very first impressions of my PMW-350
Paul Cronin December 30th, 2009, 06:56 PM I just received the camera today and started going through the manual in detail which I will finish tomorrow.
The camera body is very light weight. I will put it and the lens on a scale along with my full set up. Lens seems like it is built well with smooth controls.
Installed the small shotgun mic that comes with it since I do not have a XLR 3 pin to 5 pin cable for my Rode NTG-3. The audio plug up front is 5 pin XLR the two on the back are 3 pin XLR.
I have my Marshall V-LCD70P=3GSDI hooked up for ease of menu viewing and to correct with camera bars.
All the switches and button seem well though out.
I only turned the camera on for 10 min and wow the latitude compared to my EX1 seems huge with a sharp picture on factory presets. And I have not even set up the Nano.
Done for the day but I will do a detail review in my blog over the next few weeks and be posting here often about my findings.
First day impressions: Good Move Paul
Thierry Humeau December 30th, 2009, 07:52 PM Congrats for the new baby....
Do you think one can power a Nanoflash from the 12V (4-pin hirose connector) on the back of the camera? On Sony's PMW-350 brochure, there is a picture of the camera's back and underneath the 12V out connector, it says Max 0.5A. So if Power (W)= U (12V) x I (0.5A), that's 6W. Is that enough?
Thierry.
Alister Chapman December 31st, 2009, 02:52 AM I think you'll blow the fuse if you use the rear 12v feed. Any more than 500mA and the fuse will go. Knowing Sony the fuse is buried deep inside the camera and not a user replaceable item. I've been powering my Nano of the D-Tap light connector.
Bruce Rawlings December 31st, 2009, 03:18 AM You are right Alister. On Digibeta and SX it was always an expensive job to change the fuse
Paul Inglis December 31st, 2009, 07:44 AM Hi Paul,
I look forward to hearing your thoughts about the PMW-350. I'm looking at getting one myself in about four months time.
Paul Cronin December 31st, 2009, 08:36 AM Alister is right in the manual is says that this is only for the UHF Tuner.
The D-Tap on the front right side of the top handle can pull 50W continuous power. So even my Zylight 90, which pulls 30W, can be hooked up to the D-Tap. Also I purchased Switronix Pro-X XP-L130S batteries, which have a D-Tap on the battery. This way I can power my monitor with a battery on the back of it, my Zylight on D-Tap, and Nano on D-Tap.
Diving back in.
Dennis Dillon December 31st, 2009, 11:07 AM paul,
Congrats on your new baby. Thank you for sharing your initial thoughts. The Nano combo should rock. Have a great year
Paul Cronin December 31st, 2009, 12:12 PM Thanks Dennis Happy New Year
It is so nice to have a full size camera on my shoulder with needed controls at my finger tips.
A few more observations sorry all just thrown together. Time to get in the house and set up for our yearly GMT New Years party:
Quick and easy to switch in WB while moving on the shoulder between inside and out between presets or a new WB.
4 ND filters nice with todays bright snow.
Balance is nice and shoulder pad adjustment is easy with a big range.
VF is sharp also with easy adjustments to dial in fit, and peaking, contrast, brightness knobs within reach.
Power up is quick 2.5 sec
Menu system is easy to follow after using the EX1
Black balance is a quick adjustment
Cool on camera light options. You can put the switch on auto and leave the light switch on when the camera starts recording the light comes on. Or you can go full manual.
My 130w/h batteries last a long time. Think of the bunny with the drum
Nice strong shoulder strap hooks. I went for a Portabrace strap but a stock one comes with the camera.
lots of audio control that seem sensitive
More tomorrow as I enter Alisters presets and start shooting.
Hiram Yates December 31st, 2009, 01:49 PM grats on the new toy, look forward to seeing more!
Paul Cronin December 31st, 2009, 03:52 PM First clips were shot of snow in the trees and Christmas lights on our porch. This camera is sharp and very low noise at high gain.
Luc De Wandel January 1st, 2010, 03:48 AM Thanks Dennis Happy New Year
It is so nice to have a full size camera on my shoulder with needed controls at my finger tips.
A few more observations sorry all just thrown together. Time to get in the house and set up for our yearly GMT New Years party:
Quick and easy to switch in WB while moving on the shoulder between inside and out between presets or a new WB.
4 ND filters nice with todays bright snow.
Balance is nice and shoulder pad adjustment is easy with a big range.
VF is sharp also with easy adjustments to dial in fit, and peaking, contrast, brightness knobs within reach.
Power up is quick 2.5 sec
Menu system is easy to follow after using the EX1
Black balance is a quick adjustment
Cool on camera light options. You can put the switch on auto and leave the light switch on when the camera starts recording the light comes on. Or you can go full manual.
My 130w/h batteries last a long time. Think of the bunny with the drum
Nice strong shoulder strap hooks. I went for a Portabrace strap but a stock one comes with the camera.
lots of audio control that seem sensitive
More tomorrow as I enter Alisters presets and start shooting.
Hi Paul,
when I read these benefits, It occured to me that they are completely interchangeable with a description of the advantages of a PDW-35X (or even 33X, or any state of the art shoulder camera for that matter). That shows how people - like you and me - cannot get rid quick enough of a camera with a form factor like the EX1 (and Z7, and the like...). Good for some amateur shooting, but a pain in the wrist for any serious work. Not to mention all these tiny little buttons on places where nobody expects them. .. Don't get me wrong: marvellous camera's picturewise, but the guy who invented the handheld cam must have been a true masochist.
Happy New Year and enjoy your new camera!
Paul Cronin January 1st, 2010, 09:55 AM Hi Luc,
I agree most of the benefits I have listed from the 350 go hand in hand with other full size broadcast camera. But with regard to picture quality the PMW-350 blows away the PDW-3xx. But that is to be expected. The EX1/3 have better picture then the PDW-3xx cameras.
I am keeping my EX1 as my B camera and will buy a splash housing that will fit my EX1/Nano to improve my underwater picture quality from my Ikelite and Canon HF10. The EX1 makes stunning pictures and has a new lease on life being the EX1R. With proper shoulder support the EX1/3 are great cameras. But from my first test they can not match the sharpness, latitude, low noise, and better DOF the PMW-350 offers. Add to this having the endless choice of B4 lens options for your shooting style is one more reason for me to have taken this path.
The EX line of cameras just keeps getting better and the EX350 nice move by Sony!
Alister Chapman January 1st, 2010, 11:38 AM I've got a PDW-700 as well as my EX1 and EX3 and should soon be getting a 350. I don't consider using my EX1 or EX3 any less professional than the 700. There are times when the EX1 is a more appropriate camera than a full shoulder mount. The extra portability sometimes makes it possible to get shots that just would not be possible with a full size camera. The great thing about the EX1 and EX3 is that you are not really having to sacrifice quality when using them. It's a case of "right tool for the job". When I go tornado chasing I keep an EX1 on my lap in the car so I can grab it and shoot out the window or for those fleeting tornadoes that last only seconds. I know I could get a technically better image out of my PDW-700 but trying to shoot out of a car window bouncing down a dirt road is so much easier with an EX. The difference is that with the EX I can get the shot and with the 700 I would not. When we stop and have time to get out the tripod then the full size camera is the one I use. It has a better (longer) lens and is more stable in strong winds etc. The EX1 is an important part of my kit and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
I realise that many people on this board will not have the luxury of being able to have a choice of cameras and for many the PMW-350 will be too expensive, but it isn't the camera that makes you a professional, but the way you use it. The EX1 and EX3 are both very serious, very capable cameras that with care can be used to produce pictures that can rival just about any other HD video camera on the market today. Perhaps the ergonomics are not perfect and some of the buttons a bit fiddly, but they have brought HDCAM type image quality down to a price point that has made it possible for a lot more people to produce top class HD content.
I am jealous of Paul. He has a new toy to play with, while I'm waiting for mine. I'm interested to see if any changes were made to the picture detail settings between the pre-production camera that I had and the final production versions. I felt the camera was quite a bit too sharp! As well as the camera I also hope to take delivery of some new test charts and waveform monitors in the new year to help brew up some nice scene files for the 350.
Paul Cronin January 1st, 2010, 12:03 PM Alister by now means do I think the EX1 is not up to the professional job. And it is a very important part of my kit. Agree there are times when I will not be able to use the EX350 and the EX1 will be in my hands quickly for the shot. Nano hooked up to both and there you go, a great kit to capture the shot. You could not be more right is saying what matters is not the camera but the content is what wins every time.
I am entering your two PP now and will shoot with them this afternoon and shoot my EX1 at the same time to compare. Thanks again for the two PP and hope you receive your EX350 soon so you can enjoy the new camera in your business. Always interested in your updated PP.
Now if I could only find some used HD 2/3" long glass for a decent price.
Alister Chapman January 1st, 2010, 12:12 PM Now if I could only find some used HD 2/3" long glass for a decent price.
I would add "good" HD glass. There are some shockingly bad low cost 2/3" HD lenses on the market that are in some cases inferior to decent SD lenses. My recommendation would be to take the camera to a dealer with a stock of both HD and SD lenses and try both. A lot depends on your budget but an older (and thus cheaper) top end SD lens may be a better option than a cheap HD lens. Another thing to consider is that some time next year the 2x digital extender option should become available. As this will only use the center of the lens/sensor a lens that is a little soft in the corners should perform reasonably well. I find optical 2x extenders far from perfect in HD, so again maybe you could save some money by getting a lens without an extender.
Paul Cronin January 1st, 2010, 12:23 PM Good advice Alister,
The two I have looked at new are Fujinon ZA 22x7.6BERM Digi Power HD and Canon HJ 22ex7.6FB IRSE HDTV.
But I will take your advice and go to Abel in Jan and test out some lens options to see what I like.
Tom Roper January 1st, 2010, 02:50 PM I am jealous of Paul. He has a new toy to play with, while I'm waiting for mine.
Me too. My distributor insists the camera is not shipping until mid January, and yet Abel Cine seems to have them on the floor. Are any available right now, or do you and Abel just have an inside line Paul?
David Heath January 1st, 2010, 06:10 PM I agree most of the benefits I have listed from the 350 go hand in hand with other full size broadcast camera.
Almost tucked away in Pauls list I note "Power up is quick 2.5 sec"
It's things like that that can make a world of difference in a professional camera, but amongst the endless talk of resolution and codecs they tend to be little spoken about. And that figure is good, very good - I'd tend to say about 5-6 seconds should be the absolute maximum, but the shorter the better. The worst I ever came across was about ten years ago, when a camera I won't name took all of 40 seconds from switching on to being record ready. It was discounted on those grounds without further testing........ :-)
Gints Klimanis January 1st, 2010, 06:59 PM Fast power up for many devices means that the device is merely in a very low power mode or sleep. This drains the battery a little. Is that preferable for most users? I'd like to see some menu options to allow control for fast power up at the expense of mild battery drain.
Bruce Schultz January 1st, 2010, 07:22 PM Quote: << "but it isn't the camera that makes you a professional, but the way you use it" >>
Amen to that sentiment. Every tool has it's place and usage - example; EX1 and F900R are my two main cameras. I have had shoulder level cameras since an Ikegami HL79 in 1979 through the original Betacams to Digibeta and now my second F900. I have loved their versatility and the general build quality has always been beyond reliable versus normal consumer products - even if they can be beasts to transport and use hand-held all day long. But now I've found that the angle of shooting that one gets from having a camera at eye-level vs the lower angle shooting at chest height like the EX1, creates a very different look and feel to the footage shot. I like this lowered angle a lot, and if you look at the height of a camera on most film sets you will notice it is rarely if ever at the eye-level height but rather usually closer to the chest high level that one generally has the EX1 positioned.
Now I almost exclusively use the EX1 for b-roll and the F900R for interviews because I'm happiest with b-roll shot at the lower height for dramatic reasons.
Also, on a trip to the Amazon basin last year I left the big camera at home and only used the EX1 so as to not even have to deal with the super-extreme humidity issues that an HDCAM tape transport would have created. No problems were encountered with the solid state EX1 recordings in the jungle.
So as Mr. Natural used to say; "for the right job, use the right tool".
Alister Chapman January 2nd, 2010, 03:16 AM I think the first shipment of 350's that went out was very small, maybe only a few hundred world wide. I believe there is another larger shipment due sometime around the second week in Jan.
Paul Cronin January 2nd, 2010, 06:18 AM Tom did you pre-order. I pre-ordered with Abel Cine Tech in October. Give them a call I know they had a few but I have no idea if they are gone, they did put a few in rental.
Gints that is not the case with the EX350, it powers up and is in normal power mode. Since it only draws 15-18w it is ready to go at 2.5 sec. I tested this more then once.
Alister your presets are nice I do like the second a little better then the first but I have only shot a few clips with each.
Abel does have a second shipment coming in a few weeks so give them a call. There can’t be that many in the first shipment since mine is #12.
Paul Cronin January 2nd, 2010, 08:30 AM There has been some concern with the EX camera line zoom control by rocker or top switch not being smooth at times. All of my zoom testing so far with the EX350 has been very smooth with a nice range of speed control.
Boris Barel January 2nd, 2010, 01:32 PM Played with the camera on Friday, it is impressive. Feels right and behaves as camera should.
The zoom on the stock lens behaves as a proper 2/3. Liked the fact that the body is not obscuring the view to the right. It is nice looking too.
David Heath January 2nd, 2010, 04:38 PM Fast power up for many devices means that the device is merely in a very low power mode or sleep. This drains the battery a little. Is that preferable for most users?
Glints - I'm used to a DSR500, which takes about 5-6 seconds from "off" to record ready, a long time in some doorstep type situations, especially long waits when leaving the camera on is impractical for battery life.
I'd be very happy of a low power standby mode to cut that time down, but it sounds as if what Paul refers to is a real power off to power on time. For many people this is extremely significant, especially combined with the extremely low overall power consumption, which still allows powering of on-camera accessories with few issues.
The more I hear, the more impressed I am by this camera.
Paul Cronin January 2nd, 2010, 04:53 PM Yes David I have hit record at three seconds and it records. It could be 2.75 sec but close enough.
Cris Daniels January 2nd, 2010, 09:49 PM Trust me I am not trying to irritate anyone with this question, but I am at the point where I am buying either the PMW 350, or the RED.
Problems I see with the 350, 4:2:0 which means I have to buy a $3000 Nanoflash which I have used a lot and are absolutely fantastic, but it is still another $3k. I absolutely must have something wider than the stock lens, somewhere around a 25mm focal length. The stocker is about 35mm if I remember correctly. I sense I am going to be into a PMW 350 for about $28k depending on the extra lens I will need. Any good recommendations for that B-Mount (a prime is just fine)?. I am very interested to hear if the 350 actually can record more latitude than the EX1/3, as this is what interests me most about the RED.
The RED is expensive, and I know I am going to be out $30k, body $17,500, some Zeiss SLR Primes ~$6k, a small monitor, battery, cards. I ain't buying some $50k lens, and many a shooter is building a RED setup in the price range. Pros for the RED include at least 4:2:2 sampling, 2k @ 120fps which is absolutely a huge deal for me. If only the PMW 350 could shoot 1080p 60!!!!! I could probably live with that. The exposure latitude of the RED looks excellent from the footage I have seen. I am not too worried about the post situation, I can transcode the footage right to ProRes and just work with that. I never work natively on the EX footage anyway in FCP, so I am already transcoding all footage from the Canon 5D,7D, EX1/3, and other cameras to ProRes anyway.
For me this is a huge decision and I would not consider any other cameras other than these at this point. Another thing I have been told is that the RED takes almost 90 seconds to "boot". Talk about a downer..... I think the real problem is that I shoot about a little bit of everything, so both cameras have attributes that I really like.
Does anyone here that has ordered or bought a PMW 350 have an opinion about this? I am a bit torn and would love any imput.
Alister Chapman January 3rd, 2010, 03:22 AM I doubt there is much, if any difference in lattitude between the 350 and Red, there isn't much difference between an EX1/3 and Red. The Red will be slower to use, if your using primes simply changing focal length will take time as you swap lenses. Start-up is slow, as is the workflow. The workflow is not as widely supported as EX and simple things like instant playback of the final material in it's finished state can't be done. There is no quality advantage to be gained from transcoding EX material prior to the edit so the EX workflow can be fast and instant. With Avid and FCP (with Calibrated-Q) you can edit directly off the cards.
The question is do you need 4K (or 3K once it's been de-bayered) and just how important is 120fps? While many people are scraping together Red kits for $30k-$40k being realistic a really useable Red kit ends up costing a lot more. Are you making movies and shorts where you have time to set up the camera and shots or are you doing more run and gun or documentary style shooting. For the former Red would be a good choice, for the latter PMW-350. Ultimately I think a 350 could easily be used for everything from a short movie to wildlife to news. On the other hand I don't think a Red One would be much use for documentary or news. Yes the Red would have a resolution advantage for material going to 35mm or for cinema distribution but even a 350 is going to look pretty good on a big screen, especially if you use a NanoFlash. If your going to shoot progressive the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 is very small. The NanoFlash will really help with grading and post.
Cris Daniels January 3rd, 2010, 09:15 AM Well I am happy with the EX1/3 and Nanoflash setup, so if the picture quality of the PMW350 is indeed better, that might be the camera.
I dont need 4k, but I could definitely use the 120fps. The only reason I would shoot 4k is to keep the wide angle primes at their correct focal length.
I think that my biggest problem with the PMW 350 is the lens selection, so many of the lenses that catch my eye are PL mount full frame. Is there a good and reasonably priced prime that would fit the PMW350 and give me a 25mm focal length that is undistorted?
With the RED it is easy to find these lenses
Paul Cronin January 3rd, 2010, 10:10 AM Cris,
I owned a Red One last spring. After two weeks of testing with the camera it was not the camera for my business so I sold the camera. After that I looked at the PDW-700 and the Varicam line of cameras, which fit my business better. I waited for the EX350 and glad I did. You have to decide what camera works for you and your business. IMHO and I know I will be beat up for this. I have experience owning and trying the Red and it is for 35mm shooters who have the clients who NEED 35mm. Don’t buy the camera for the 120fps that only uses ½ of the sensor and the footage is not the quality of the EX line. The 120fps was the reason I purchased the camera and looking at that footage along side the EX1, which I also owned at the time with a CD XDR, the EX/XDR won.
You must have a lot of other heavy duty broadcast gear to only spend $30K. Since a decent tripod for the Red is in the $6-9K range and glass even if you use Birger mount with Canon EF L will put you out $12-15K. Then batteries, flash drives, extra TB for your NLE. I think you should not buy a Red unless you are ready to spend $40-45K. The same goes for the EX350 if you have heavy duty broadcast tripod great if not with all you will need from scratch the EX350 will be in the $30-35K range with only the stock lens. I know this because I have purchased both and all the needed gear. I will exceed the EX350 numbers when I have a prime for wide and a long zoom with optical stabilizer. But the camera will pay me back many times since it fits my business. The Red could do the same if it fits your business. Following me.
You say you prefer PL lens, well kick the cost above up an extra $20K for PL lens instead of Canon EF L glass and the Birger mount with remote. You can put a prime on the EX350 and that will give amazing footage.
Agree with Alister latitide on the EX line is great and testing yesterday the EX350 is amazing latitude and a big step up from the EX1/3.
Since you are in NY I would suggest you take a visit to Abel Cine Tech and check out both cameras. Then choose the one you like and RENT it. This may seem expensive but RENT for the day and go out and shoot in the city. RENT both for a day each and go out and shoot. This will be worth every penny and who know you might get some great footage. You will be very glad in the long run you did this, you will make a educated decision. The Red One could be for you or you might see the advantage of the EX350. But don’t buy on advertising it is not accurate.
Above is only my opinion and I think both cameras have their place in the business. You just need to decide which one you will be happy with and will make money for your business while you enjoy the process. I hope is some small way this helps.
Cris Daniels January 3rd, 2010, 01:43 PM Well I appreciate the response for certain. I am not hooked on RED, or the PL Lenses by any means. I would like to get at least one nice wide prime for the 350 as I previously mentioned. I must have something wider than the stock lens. On the long end I think I can live with the stock lens for now.
I really like the Nanoflash, I would not really consider the camera without one. The big thing for me is the fact that I know I can really rip with that camera. I know the EX1 so well it is like second nature. I feel better that the PMW 350 would also be that kind of camera that I could master and at that point it is just a high quality tool, not some constant technical challenge. As much as I can appreciate the frequent RED updates and bug fixes, you can't help but thinking that in some way you are a beta tester. Not interested.
My experiences with the EX1 and EX3 are so good that I really feel like the PMW350 is exactly what I have been looking for. I am in Florida for a while so I will see about getting my hands on a PMW350 to see what it feels like.
Greg Chisholm January 3rd, 2010, 02:07 PM I just received the camera today and started going through the manual in detail which I will finish tomorrow.
The camera body is very light weight. I will put it and the lens on a scale along with my full set up. Lens seems like it is built well with smooth controls.
Installed the small shotgun mic that comes with it since I do not have a XLR 3 pin to 5 pin cable for my Rode NTG-3. The audio plug up front is 5 pin XLR the two on the back are 3 pin XLR.
I have my Marshall V-LCD70P=3GSDI hooked up for ease of menu viewing and to correct with camera bars.
All the switches and button seem well though out.
I only turned the camera on for 10 min and wow the latitude compared to my EX1 seems huge with a sharp picture on factory presets. And I have not even set up the Nano.
Done for the day but I will do a detail review in my blog over the next few weeks and be posting here often about my findings.
First day impressions: Good Move Paul
paul, i was wondering if the viewfinder on the 350 is adjustable like the one on the ex3... can it be moved to the left for left eye shooting or is it permanently fixed?
Paul Cronin January 3rd, 2010, 02:07 PM Cris I know the EX350 is hard to find at this time. I was told Abel has put a few in rental so when you are back you should check it out. Don't know if anyone in FL who has one in stock.
Agree I will also be buying a prime for some wide shooting but will take my own advice a rent a few first.
Hope it is warm there lots of winter going on in RI. Look forward to a shoot in the Keys in a couple of weeks.
Paul Cronin January 3rd, 2010, 02:12 PM Yes Greg is moves left and right, forward and backwards and is very adjustable. Quick lever for fore and aft and locking wheel for side to side.
Here is top view where you can see the rails for forward/backwards and the channel for side to side. Sorry if it is a little out of focus I was focusing on the cold shoe.
Greg Chisholm January 3rd, 2010, 02:26 PM thanks for the speedy response and the photo.
greg
Tom Roper January 8th, 2010, 01:09 AM The test was performed by me with the kit lens at F4.8 from 2 meters, zoomed almost full wide, but not quite. Imatest normalizes the sharpening to a standard 2 pixel radius, so the influence of in-cam sharpening has no bearing on the result.
For 1080/23.98p:
Horizontal 1000 lines
Vertical 1000 lines
Updated 1/08/2010
Alister Chapman January 8th, 2010, 03:17 AM Wow, those figures are impressive...... I think.... and to some extent was what I found as when I shot with the demo unit I did wind the detail back a fair bit. I think this is one camera where the default detail and crispening settings really are too high. At least with the crispening control you can back of the high frequency response. It also shows what many have doubted.. that it really is possible to make a high resolution HD lens for not a lot of money.
Steve Phillipps January 8th, 2010, 03:32 AM Glints - I'm used to a DSR500, which takes about 5-6 seconds from "off" to record ready, a long time in some doorstep type situations, especially long waits when leaving the camera on is impractical for battery life.
If you use cache/loop record it'll capture the image more or less as soon as you turn it on. Had this with the Varicam too, the P2 cards take ages to register when you turn it on, but with loop record you're rolling in under a second. Problem with the Varicam is that you can't use loop record in variable frame rate mode! How useful is that!
Steve
Paul Cronin January 8th, 2010, 08:36 AM I have shot with the camera now for two weeks and indeed you have a sharp picture with amazing quality. Some of the sharpest footage I have viewed. I am using Alister's preset #2, which cuts down the sharpness a bit, but I also tried factory presets.
Today finally my tripod system shows up so I can now go into the field. Next week we take the camera in the helicopter for its first shoot. Then the following week the camera is working on a shoot in the Keys. So I will have a lot of footage to start the second part of my review, once I have sent the footage of to the clients of course. You can read the first part of my review (First Impressions on my blog). On all shoots I will be using the Nano Flash at different settings.
I have been working with Olof Ekbergh from Westside AV Studio on a Nano plate for the PMW-350 (EX350). I built a mock up in cardboard did some measurements so Olof could put together a plate that holds the Nano, wireless receivers, and other options off the back of the camera. The plate uses the four threaded holes behind the wireless slot. This arrives today so I will post comments and pictures in the Convergent Design forum later today.
Tom Roper January 8th, 2010, 10:14 AM I goofed, sorry. I reran the Imatest, after realizing I had clipped the exposure, skewing the result. The actual resolution for 1080/23.98p is around 1000 lines both horizontal and vertical. Have made corrections to the earlier post.
Imatest was a big help in deriving appropriate sharpness settings. You can set the desired sharpening radius in pixels, and then it will tell you by percent the amount you are over or under in both horizontal and vertical directions.
I found the PMW350K at the default settings has too much sharpness overall, and substantially more sharpness applied in the horizontal than the vertical. Fortunately, the PMW350K settings let you correct for that. By changing the horizontal/vertical ratio, you can match the sharpness in both directions, which is what I did.
I set my sharpness to a standard 2 pixel radius, and was within 1 percent of that in both horizontal and vertical directions with the following detail settings:
Level -10
HV Ratio +35
Freq +25
White Limit +25
Black Limit +25
Already, the picture image looks very smooth.
Piotr Wozniacki January 8th, 2010, 10:21 AM Tom,
I bet with you previous message you have made a couple of people place their orders!
Paul Cronin January 8th, 2010, 10:47 AM Interesting Tom,
What I have been running:
Level -15
HV Ratio (default which is 0)
Freq +24
White Limit (Default 0)
Black Limit (Default 0)
I will give you setting a try.
Also have you noticed that if you save a Paint setting each time you shut down it reverts back to Standard not the setting you shut down on like the EX1/3? I guess you could change this by saving the setting as Standard but this does not make sense if you use three different settings.
Tom Roper January 8th, 2010, 11:25 AM Paul, the paint settings stick when I power down, but overall I am confused by all these file saving conventions. Earlier I saved the All file to sxs, then paint, reference, presets, and somehow managed to lose the paint settings in that series of actions. I like the old way better. Also miss the shot transition mode and image stabilization, love everything else.
Piotr, I hope I didn't, I do have a conscience about that and am very sorry for that mistake. I likely did the same thing with the EX1 so I intend to retest it as well.
But overall, it's not sharpness or resolution that jumps out at me, as it is the low noise, cleanliness and shadow detail. I'm still recovering from cancer treatments, can barely lift it, but that's coming back.
Paul Cronin January 8th, 2010, 11:31 AM Tom sorry to hear you have had to deal with treatment. I hope you come back strong and have family close by.
My paint settings stay in the menu but it reverts back to the Standard setting on each shut down. Then I go and pick which setting I like. Would prefer it to stay on the last setting I left on shut down. I hope this is not a bug with my camera if we are both saying the same thing.
Tom Roper January 8th, 2010, 11:32 AM What I have been running:
Level -15
HV Ratio (default which is 0)
Freq +24
White Limit (Default 0)
Black Limit (Default 0)
We're not talking a big difference here, except the HV setting let's you not have to pull down the level setting quite as far, afterall when we reduce the level we may be undersharpening the good channel by as much as we were oversharpened in the bad channel. And this probably should be tested separately for 60i, as I only worked that setting out for 24p.
Tom Roper January 8th, 2010, 11:52 AM Tom sorry to hear you have had to deal with treatment. I hope you come back strong and have family close by.
My paint settings stay in the menu but it reverts back to the Standard setting on each shut down. Then I go and pick which setting I like. Would prefer it to stay on the last setting I left on shut down. I hope this is not a bug with my camera if we are both saying the same thing.
Oh my...thanks for sharing that. I had no idea it was reverting back to standard, I got so frustrated I just stopped saving them, perhaps my paint settings are in the standard file. I will check for that. And yes I am feeling much better, thanks.
Piotr Wozniacki January 8th, 2010, 11:53 AM I'm still recovering from cancer treatments, can barely lift it, but that's coming back.
Tom,
Like you, I'm also recovering from serious health problems (cervical stenosis, needing 3 neck spine surgeries in a row) - hold on, man :)
Tom Roper January 8th, 2010, 02:55 PM YOU too, Get Well my friend!!!!
Alister Chapman January 8th, 2010, 03:00 PM There is a lot of confusion over what the various files save.
All file to sxs, then paint, reference, user file
All file should save the user settings such as assignable switches, zebras etc plus any scene files (paint) as well as reference and lens files.
Paint (scene files) will save your individual scene files.
Reference saves the settings you have set within the "standard" scene file.
User file saves things like zebra levels, assignable switches, output options.
David Heath January 8th, 2010, 03:32 PM I goofed, sorry. I reran the Imatest, after realizing I had clipped the exposure, skewing the result. The actual resolution for 1080/23.98p is around 1000 lines both horizontal and vertical. Have made corrections to the earlier post.
Ah! I'm actually pleased to see the lower result! I saw your earlier one post and thought "that's theoretically impossible.....", then thoughts of "gulp, is that aliasing......?" ran through my mind.
Your corrected results are exactly what I'd hope to see.
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