Ways around aperture/gain/iris controls on HC1?

I am a bit confused to the exact nature of exposure control behaviour, but I think there are some ways around the major drawbacks in the camcorders controls.

Simple stuff most of us know:
Zoom/Focus. In professional movie making they prefer to physically move the position of the camera back and forward and side to side. Learning to do this you only would have to use the zoom on occasion, leaving you free to ride the focus.

Shutter control. In film they usually stick with one speed for a consistent look, pick the best speed for look and lock it till light is too low. This then leaves gain and aperture in full auto (the two that I don't want in full auto).

A part solution. Aperture and gain control:
Make a HD SLR lens adaptor (research is still on going in the alternative imaging forums and progress is coming along) and use it's iris. I assume you can lock the exposure to one position. So would turning the manual exposure control so that the iris opened up and locking it (with shutter locked) do the trick? Otherwise, you could cover the front of the lens with something black (say a lens cap) to force it to open and then lock. Now you can use the iris on the SLR lens. To stop the gain from going too high and producing noise, you might be able to make a lens caps with faint light source, to stop the gain from being forced up while forcing the iris open.

You could then use the SLR lens zoom and focus controls.

Another idea, is it possible to store the open iris in shot transition between power ups.

Using the iris on the SLR lens is a really bad idea -- the more it gets stopped down, the more visible grain shows up on the ground glass. Normally you keep the SLR lens wide open at all times and control exposure through the camera's iris. Relying on the SLR's iris for exposure will have a definite impact on the quality of the image (meaning, the more stopped-down you make it, the grittier and grainier your footage will become).

Would a wide angle lens like the Kenko SGW05 work well witht he HC1? or would this camera require some specific wide angle lenses?

also, loading the tapes from below, would this make it a hassle to attach a beachtek adapter?

thank you

Hi,
I have a Canon GL2 that I'm quite pleased with. However, I need to add a second good camera to build my business. I have been shooting weddings with the GL2 as my main camera and a Sony Digital 8 camera for the wide shots.
I was planning to get another GL2 until I started looking at the HC1 and FX1. I know the camera is just being released, but I would like some opinions on this: If I buy the Sony HC1 and begin filming weddings with it and a GL2, how well will the colors and footage (shot in SD or downgraded after the shoot) match?
I can color correct in Final Cut Pro, and getting the HC1 gets at least one foot in the door towards HD.
Apparently Canon isn't quite ready to release a product, so I have to do something. Also, is the HC1 up to snuff for wedding videography, or would you absolutely go for the FX1?, since it's 3 chip?
Thanks,
- John

also, loading the tapes from below, would this make it a hassle to attach a beachtek adapter?

Check out http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/default.htm
To me it looks like it will be problem every time you change a tape. But I remember a friend having some kind of snap-on adapter to his camera so attaching that to the camera will make it easier to pick it on and off. Maybe something like that can be used?

That depends on the the sort of adaptor your using. Truly grain less adaptors (which some are trying with wax but are other possible ways) should get around that.

I have stumbled accross a description on how to control the exposure on another forum from a guy that has been doing lots of testing on the camera (many clips).

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=136044&postcount=49
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=2365

Thanks

Wayne.

In order to keep all the menus straight in my mind, I created a set of Javascript-enabled pages on my site with screen grabs from the LCD screen. It's all in Japanese, and then the English translation is either at the right or appears when hovering. Check it out:

http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/menus

Currently it has four views, starting with when you first turn on the camera, then clicking into rec review / end search, the three screens of personalized menus, and finally the five main menu "chunks". Soon I'll add in every menu option underneath all that so I can better memorize my Japanese-only camera.

(Menus will be captured specifically for HDV recording. I have no interest in stills or DV!)

-Lorin

Great job! Thanks Lorin,

I picked up an HC1 the other day, have shot a variety of nature situations and have been editing it with FCP 5 and viewing on an Apple 23' HD cinema display. The image is great except when there's a pan the image really seems to strobe alot. Even relatively slow pans. I realize I'm looking at interlaced frames on a progressive screen but am I doing something wrong? It looks fine on a CRT monitor (smooth but videolike) but it drives me crazy watching on my flat panel. Is there any way to smooth this out? My shutter is set to 1/60.

I should also mention that I usually leave the camera's control's on AUTO.

Well, it is kind of difficult to assess your inquiry because we would need a lot more. A sample of the clip would be idea. A lot of things could play into effect; like movement on the environment while panning, pan speed, etc. Usually, under a lot of movement (lots of pans), it is wise to increase the shutter speed to something around 1/2000th or so. Also, take into consideration that HDV is compressing its 3-4x DV resolution into the same 25mb. That means this higher compression will result in less image accuracy when panning. This is a disadvantage of HDV, but most people consider the quality tradeoff to be acceptable.

i went to hc1 convention in seoul
for the demonstration they screened on digital projector barco about 400inch screen...it's really impressvie even in big screen it was very sharp..clear almost like 2k film.


http://arena.nikkeibp.co.jp/col/20050705/112709/ArenaSample_mpeg.zip

Thanks for this report, Jung! Much appreciated,

Dear Folks,

i guess u don;t need to read chinese just acroll down and u will see the 2 captured pix, of both Fx1 and Hc1. seems only at low light the HC1 is not as good as FX1.

i just got HC1 E , but yet to find out how is the cinema gamma, seems no way to make it work.

J.M.

Perhaps it would help to post a link? :-)

Hi everyone, I am going to buy this camera (HC1) and my question is what PC I must have to capture hdv from HC1 DV tape. I think to use CapDVHS to capture the raw m2t file.

thanks.

Well, I make the question in other way, What are you using to capture your hdv footage from camera to PC?

Hardware: Pc processor, memory....
Software: OS,capture tool .....

ANyone using CapDVHS?

thanks.

I rented a Z1 and a FX1 to tape a wedding but, did not have the cams long enough to import all of the footage. The client owns a HC1 and says I can borrow it to import my footage to my G4. Does anyone know if this will work? Are they compatible? Will there be any loss in quality?

Sure will...no loss of quality should occur as you are not recording over the tape using the HC1's sensor, simply reading the tape. A lot of users have purchased the HC1 simply to use it as an HDV deck.

I would just like to add that if you use a consumer HDV cam as a VCR, it is more vulnerable to popping a transistor as the components that make up the circuit board are a lot lower quality than the FX1. DO NOT USE THE HC1 AS A LONG-TERM DUBBING SOLUTION! The M10 is suited for that.

So what is the deal here?
I've been trying to read up on this but fall short.
Can anyone please enlighten me?

What the main diffrences between the HC1 and A1.
I know the obvious (A1 is directed to a more professional market)

And are you able to use manual controls on the A1 altough they
might be under some menus? What manual controls can't you
control fully with the HC1?

Kind regards and a big thank you,
/Andreas

The main differences between both camcorder is the audio module, the lens hood, low-light performance (A1U has black stretch), and some other minor software improvements on the A1U.

Unfortunately, the A1U as well as the HC1 lacks Gain control. It also lacks individual Iris control and can only be manipulated together via the Exposure setting.

People that have reviewed the A1U have also mentioned better picture quality, but there is no technical evidence for that. Low-light performance in the A1U is definetely superior due to black stretch feature.



Hope this helps.

Thank you,
So you have no control over gain and iris?
You can't force the cam to not gain?

Well, you can manipulate the exposure setting. People have already created a table correlating the exposure setting with the aperture and gain setting. I believe that if you increase exposure to the 6th notch from the right, you will get full aperture and no gain.

The problem is, you can only see what aperture and gain level you're on when playing the tape back. So basically you have to change the exposure, record a 1-2 sec clip, go to playback mode, watch it with "Data Code" option enabled, and you can see what the aperture and gain level is set to. This is the way with most of the SONY's newer consumer camcorders.

At least with the HC1/A1U you have direct shutter speed control (via the touch screen menu). I feel that you can easily resolve the situation by printing out the exposure table and taking it with you when recording. That way you can reference to it when manipulating the exposure, which by the way, can be done via a dedicated lever on both, the HC1 and the A1U.

I just assumed I would be able to watch my old Canon Elura
DV recordings on the DV playback system of the HC1.

When I tried this, however, both video and audio played back
in an irregular, stuttery fashion. I know the tape was recorded SP
and had no dropouts, but I haven't gone back and checked all the
HC1 playback settings to confim this is a true incompatiblity issue.

Haven't heard much about this issue from other HC1 owners.
Perhaps because no one is dumb enought to stick cruddy old
DV tapes in their new baby ;). Unfortunately, this is currently
the only way I have to view my DV archives.


Jim

I recorded some stuff on a Canon XL-2 and played back fine. It might be that you force HDV out or something. Check the menus so that you choose DV-tape and DV-out.

My A1U played back my old HC90 and PC330 footage perfectly. I'm sure it is the settings that he mentioned.

Thanks guys--I will double check the settings.

Overall, my HC1 experience has been pretty great in the two weeks
I've had it.




Jim

Hello Forum,

doeas anybody knows if the HC1 has a function to avoid tape contact to the video head in record standby / pause mode?
Sometimes I need the camera longer time on record standby, e.g. adjusting light or preparing the scene. If the tape all the time has contact to the rotating head both - head and tape - will wearout soon.
It´s IMO an issue concerning especially the HC1 because the cam has a bottom loading Tape and so it can not be unloaded easily to spare the heads when mounted on a tripod.

No it doesn't have that function you require (to best of my knowledge).

You can adjust, i beleive, the time it will stay in standby mode before it powers down.

If you're preparing a scene, and you don't want the tape/head to wear then either :
1) power down and do scene prep you need that doesn't require checking every second or two in LCD/viewfinder.
2) put the camcorder in stills mode will, i believe, disengage the head from the tape as it's capturing stills to memory card. In this way you can still see the scene and may be your best option. (though will be in 4:3 in think).
If you need to check exposure etc. or white balance or whatever, then flip it back to tape mode, do your checks and then back to memory-stills mode. Should be best bet.

Alternatively just don't be paranoid about it and do your scene prep faster !

thanks, I will look for this still mode!

Do you know if the FX1 has a tape spare feature ?

no sorry i don't know about the FX1.

The mode needed is just rotate the silver dial one click from 'tape' mode ! takes 1 second.
that's it - just the photo mode.

I need to capture the raw m2t output from my HC1 ... but I also need to be able to specify the in & out points. The reason for this is because I want to be able to capture precise clips from the tape and not go through an editing process.

I can't use Premiere Pro because it doesn't use the raw streams. I can't use ConnectHD from Cineform because you can't specify in & out points - it just captures, as does CapDVHS.

I've tried using the Media Studio Pro 8 trial but (a) it keeps on blowing up when I try to run the capture tool and (b) when I have managed to get the tool working, it doesn't look like I can specify in & out points.

Can anyone make suggestions as to how I can achieve what I need to do?

--Philip

To get help with MSP8 go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mug-sw/

Or:

http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugindex.fcgi?forum=uleadmediastudio

Danny Fye
www.dannyfye.com

Sorry - I've just re-read my original posting and it was ambiguous in the meaning of the question :-).

I wasn't specifically asking for help about MSP8 - although if it can do what I want, that is a bonus.

I was, in general, asking for advice and suggestions on any tool that will allow me to capture the m2t stream but within specific in and out points.

Thanks.

--Philip

I see according to this site (http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1001602 - look under specifications) that the HC1 can apparently read and playback 1080i50 tapes. Has anyone tried this feature? I'm thinking about using this as a deck for my Z1 and if I shoot 1080i50 HDV, it'd be nice to know that someone has tried this before. Additionally, would it be possible to monitor the 1080i50 signal (firewire out -> HC1 -> PAL/NTSC monitor)?



mg

I believe you are correct. In fact, a lot of people have been using the HC1 as a deck. As a bonus, they get a handy vacation camcorder...a no-brainer for those with money. ;)

Compatibility goes both ways.
Nevertheless, given the size and robustness of the HC1, i dont think it would be adequate to use it as a deck for a professional harassing type of work...

i use
auto exposure
color level 2up
sharpness level 1up
and i don't use white balance.
outdoor mode or auto color mode looked much better.

i use
auto exposure
color level 2up
sharpness level 1up
and i don't use white balance.
outdoor mode or auto color mode looked much better.

Do these settings work for you for regular 1080 60i or 24p conversion or both? I am very interested in running tests with my HC1 but would sure like to experiment with settings that seem to be tested and liked by the forum members. tks

i use
auto exposure
color level 2up
sharpness level 1up
and i don't use white balance.
outdoor mode or auto color mode looked much better.

i put my camera HC1E on vectorscope, colorlevel +2 is very good. But sharpness +1.....factory setting is already too high, with high-contrast objects gives it already easy doubleknown...see on my test's the windpower picture.

the sites are in german, please babelfish to translate.....

http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/hc1_2.html (color level test)

http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/hc1_3.html (color test, windpowerpicture)

hi,
please forgive this ignorant question but for all the tea in china I can not work out if the auto white balance is set every time the camera is switched on or each time recording is switched on. cheers

As soon as a camcorder is being switched on in camera mode, AWB tracking is active (lenscover removed) and stays active, also during recording. It will adapt the WB setting needed for the scene with a certain delay (about 10 seconds). Leaving yr can in rec. standby while walking with the lens pointed down towards e.g. the (yellow) sand will result in a blueish whitepoint shifts.

What is the minimum aperture of the lens? f8? f11?

In bright light, it seems to like the shutter speed of 125 (as opposed to 60), I guess because it feels that 60 will cause too much difraction with a smaller aperture?

Anyway if I choose manual shutter speed and set it myself, how can I know what aperture it has chosen? The only way I can find out is by shooting a clip and playing it with the Time Code Data displayed. But it is cumbersome...

Thanks.

At f11 (available?) diffraction will introduce reduced resolution with those small CCD structures. Especially when component HDV is being played it will be visible. A higher shutterspeed will introduce some more strobing which can be different (breakups?) with CMOS readout .

I'm looking for edit software to transfer the mini DV tapes that I have from my previous Sony TR-20 to HDV on my HC1, and how to do it.I don't know if it's possible.
Thanks in advance for any help and Happy New Year.

If Sony TR-20 is DV-tape then HC1 can play them back. I have played back DV-tape from a Canon XL-2 with no problems. It might be possible to transfer by using firewire directly to the HC1.

I see some folks here have a HC1E model.

I have a HC1K.

Does anyone know what kinds of differences are made between these lettered revisions?

The letter "E" added to the HC1 denotes that it is the european version which is a pal version. The Japanese version is the HC1J. I haven't seen the "K" yet, but I would assume it refers to the intended country of use.

Per this thread
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=48466

It seems the HC-1K models are "international versions", with multiple language support.

Mark

a-ha. good to know. thanks.