ok, so i've waited well over a year to purchase this lesser expensive media for my EX1. i waited, like most people, to see if the combos were reliable and dependable. after reading many posts/conversations on this forum, i decided that the majority of people were having great success with these combo units and that now was the time for me to join the party. i just sold 2-8GB cards, a 16GB Sony SxS card and replaced them with a "trial-run" MxR:Transcend combo unit. i immediately got a Media Error message, even though i'm still able to record more clips. i've read dozens if not hundreds of posts about these combos and never knew you could continue recording after receiving a Media Error. the main nuisance is that the Media Error warning still remains on the LCD/VF screen until you restore the media. i haven't tested the clips in Clip Browser, but they seem to playback fine in camera up until the point where the error occurred.

now my question is: When one receives a Media Error warning, is it typically due to a faulty

A) SDHC card (Transcend 16GB Class 6)

or

B) MxR ExpressCard reader

unfortunately, i don't have any other SDHC cards to test, but i'd like to know where to start my trouble-shooting?


thanks for any help you may have for me,
Mike

I think too many Transcend cards are not to the specs needed for EX use. I'd suggest getting ATP ProMax. I'm not sure why MxR is selling it in combination with Transcend these days.

Basically I'd blame the SDHC card.

thanks Craig. i appreciate your response especially since I've seen your comments and involvement on other threads with this subject matter.

Hi Michael,
I would treat these cards with a great deal of caution I purchased e-LCR and MxM with 32gb Sandisk and ATP Pro memory and both gave media errors and fail have failed to format without ejecting the media or rebooting the camera by turning it off and then back on.
I have never had that problem with SxS as much as I do not like the price of SxS it's the only media I would trust on paid jobs.

thanks Lance. i know SxS is the most reliable, but i made a business "cardinal sin" by choosing to sell all of my SxS cards before i tested out the SDHC alternatives. i actually sold the SxS cards before i paid for the sdhc combos. i did however buy a Sandisk SxS 8GB from a well known retailer in New York in order to still be able to over-crank to 60fps. until i can find a reliable sdhc combo i might have to use my new SxS card more often than i had originally planned. I am very curious about these ATP ProMax cards. HoodMan cards seem very dependable, but my whole point was to save money on media. so, if need be, i'll buy a Hoodman as a last resort option.

now my question is: When one receives a Media Error warning, is it typically due to a faulty


It is due to the Transcend cards. They are to be avoided as the Media Error warnings are but just one symptom of a wider problem with their manufacture that could result in data loss.

Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead.

It's been my direct experience that the SDHC cards for the most part write data slower (how much I don't know) than SxS cards. Many of the 'media restore' errors that I have gotten are due to not waiting long enough for the card to write the previous shot before hitting the record button again. You really need to pay attention to the red record light near the card door, however, 'media restore' errors still happen even when you don't trigger a record too early. For the most part, the higher priced SDHC cards like Promax and SanDisk (the other S in SxS) Extreme work pretty reliably, but are still not a perfect SxS replacement in any environment..

Marcus Durham Quote: "Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead. "

I have had one problem with a Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec 16GB card as well as a Transcend. While your enthusiasm is delicious, I have doubts that these Media Restore errors are caused by the card itself and probably more by EX1 playing "catchup" with file writing when recording has stopped. SxS cards have a faster read/write speed, and that is probably the main reason we see fewer complaints with them. The file operation of the EX1 during Start/Stop record, recording across cards in both slots (when one fills up) and even power downs are problem. I suspect that faster cards may alleviate the problem as the card finishes writing sooner. Unfortunately, I know of no SDHC cards faster than class 10 at the present time. CF cards just made a leap in capacity and speed to 60 and 90 MBytes/second.

Marcus Durham Quote: "Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead. "

I have had one problem with a Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec 16GB card as well as a Transcend. While your enthusiasm is delicious, I have doubts that these Media Restore errors are caused by the card itself and probably more by EX1 playing "catchup" with file writing when recording has stopped. SxS cards have a faster read/write speed, and that is probably the main reason we see fewer complaints with them. The file operation of the EX1 during Start/Stop record, recording across cards in both slots (when one fills up) and even power downs are problem. I suspect that faster cards may alleviate the problem as the card finishes writing sooner. Unfortunately, I know of no SDHC cards faster than class 10 at the present time. CF cards just made a leap in capacity and speed to 60 and 90 MBytes/second.

Except, as I've noted, there appears to be more than one factor at play here. We've been fed the line for a long time that the cards were the limiting factor when, as I discovered recently, it could be the adaptors as well.

In an MxM lockable I could overcrank an ATP at 48fps for as long as I wanted. I could (and did) fill a card. Tried the same in an MxR and it quit after about 16 seconds realtime recording. So, not all adaptors are born equal.

The difference with the "bad" Transcends is that regardless of what adaptor you put them in, they struggle to overcrank beyond 40fps for any length of time. In fact closer to 35fps if you want to fill a card. The trend seems to be that these cards are just slower in general and can hold a red light for 8-10 seconds.

For me a card that is struggling to achieve 40 fps simply doesn't have enough headroom. I suspect you are correct that the EX1 writes in bursts, hence why these slow cards get caught out.

People can and do press record before they should. When I used to get this with a Transcend I started to think I was going mad and that I hadn't waited for the green light. It was only after it happened several times that I could be sure that even if the camera hadn't been rolling for 10 minutes I'd still get that error. The only media restores I've had since shooting onto ATP have been those I have forced during testing. Nothing in the field.

thanks for replying gentlemen, but i am getting Media Error warnings during recording not just in between or immediately after stopping. just a note to add to this discussion, i would get Media Restore warnings with my old SxS cards usually upon inserting into one of the record slots.

i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards.
Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Memory-TS16GSDHC6E-Frustration-Free-Packaging/dp/B001ECQVTM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261432961&sr=1-5)

if they don't work, then i'll have to try either one of these options.
1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4
2) Sandisk Extreme III
3) ATP ProMax
4) Hoodman RAW

i'll probably test in that order because if my memory serves me correctly the Ultra II cards are the cheapest with the Hoodman cards(out of stock on most websites) being the most expensive. and yes, unfortunately, i do have time to wait until i find the right, error free, cards.

Happy Holidays!!!

i would get Media Restore warnings with my old SxS cards usually upon inserting into one of the record slots.


That sounds worrying. Can you borrow a SxS card from someone that is "known good" to test?

If a card that works fine for someone else produces an error in your camera I'd be inclined to send the camera back to Sony,

But for heavens sake when speaking to Sony only mention the SxS causing errors. SDHC will just cloud the issue.

E
In an MxM lockable I could overcrank an ATP at 48fps for as long as I wanted. I could (and did) fill a card. Tried the same in an MxR and it quit after about 16 seconds realtime recording. So, not all adaptors are born equal.


At one time the MxR and MxM were the same design coming from the same manufacturer. I've heard that's no longer the case and I've heard from others as well that MxM and ATP have seen the same results as you.

i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards.
Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Memory-TS16GSDHC6E-Frustration-Free-Packaging/dp/B001ECQVTM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261432961&sr=1-5)

Those are known as the "green stripe" cards. I have two. Hoodman is reselling cards, but there aren't any better than Sandisk Extreme III 30 MB/sec.


"1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4"


Given that a lot of the problems with the SDHC cards seems related to card speed, I'd put your money in the fastest available. That would rule out the slower Ultra II.

This probably will never end. I remember the time more than a year ago when the SDHC card thing has started.
After endless threads there was some sort of conclusion favoring Kensington reader with Transcend and Sandisk Ultra II cards and particularly warning about the Sandisk Extreme cards which were faster by specs yet they failed to work in the cameras.
Now I see the opposite, Transcend is considered lousy and Sandisk is favored, nobody talking about the Kensington readers since they stick out from the slots but even the specific design MxM and MxR cards seem to be less reliable than many believes.

So if someone enters this game will receive a chaotic flood of information, unstructured. It would be great to have a summary, a poll or dashboard where users could input their experience with cards, readers, combination in a well structured design which would even give a % of experienced failure or success.
Otherwise one have to browse threads for ages and may still end up with false information (e.g. a reported failure was due to human error not the card or reader, but the user failed to admit or communicated 5 pages later where the reader has never reached due to falling asleep beforehand).

The other such thing is the picture profiles section. If I wont need PP-s soon, I would find amusing whats going on there. From little personal fights to "scientific" explanations you can find anything. If you want to know what to do in low light or when shooting fireworks, or any pragmatic info for practical daily use, don't go there.

Zsolt, the challenge with SDHC and adaptors is that manufacturing processes have changed and do change over time. It's not that people are "all over the place" in their thinking. Transcend and Sandisk have changed the way they make the cards. Kensington has changed the way they make the adaptors. MxR and MxM have changed as well.

These days it seems MxM and ATP ProMax cards are the most reliable combination. That may change.

With Picture Profiles it's a combination of science and art. Test charts and scopes can be used to measure the science. The art is subjective though. The workflow (Color grading and compositing in post) also influences.

Zsolt, the challenge with SDHC and adaptors is that manufacturing processes have changed and do change over time. It's not that people are "all over the place" in their thinking. Transcend and Sandisk have changed the way they make the cards. Kensington has changed the way they make the adaptors. MxR and MxM have changed as well.


Exactly. The thing is you need to keep abreast of what the current thinking is as these things aren't set in stone. The cards are memory products and just like any other type of memory the manufacturing process can change for a variety of reasons from yields from the silicon and market price pressures to sourcing the memory from a different factory.

Current thinking is to use a MxR or MxM with a ATP or certain types of Sandisk. 6 months ago it was Transcend or just one type of Sandisk. Now Transcend cards have lower performance and aren't suitable for reasons that are probably linked to price pressure (look how much the cost has reduced on these cards compared to the ATP's which are nearly twice the price in the UK).

Due to the speed things have changed some people still recommend and sell the old combos. Your best bet is always to check this forum. Generally we're at the cutting edge and will spot things way before anyone else.

SDHC is a homebrew solution and you need to be on top of it all if you are going to use it. If you don't really have a reasonable understanding of what is involved and how it all works, you are probably better off with SxS.

[QUOTE=Michael B. McGee;1463062]

i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards.
Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Memory-TS16GSDHC6E-Frustration-Free-Packaging/dp/B001ECQVTM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261432961&sr=1-5)
if they don't work, then i'll have to try either one of these options.
1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4
2) Sandisk Extreme III
3) ATP ProMax
4) Hoodman RAW


Hi, Michael . . .

Hope your lab testing of the SDHC goes well, and you find some cards that work nicely. Please let us know your findings.

I too have been looking for some back-up SDHC cards -- I have both the RAW and the MXR adapters. I just tested a couple of the SanDisk Sandisk Ultra II Class 4 32 GB cards. I couldn't get either of them to format in either the RAW or MXR adapters. They just don't work for me. Funny thing, I didn't give up. I found that the SanDisk Ultra Class 4 16GB cards work great. I don't know what the Ultra (without the II designation) means as the card specs look similar -- but the packaging is different. I tried the Ultra 16GB in both brands of adapters I have -- and they seem to work without failing after three full card test recordings. I played around with them a fair bit and didn't once have a "restore media" issue. The nice thing is the cards are only about $50.00 each. The dealer doesn't stock any 32GB, which I'd prefer -- but hey, 16GB is cool too.

On a side note: When I got one of my cameras, I was given a class 2 SanDisk Ultra II 16GB SDHC card, and it's worked flawlessly on several occasions. And this one is only rated class 2!

It seems there are so many unknown factors which can make an SDHC work or fail. I guess when we find media that seems to perform . . . stock up!

Ian

i bought two 32GB Sandisk Ultra II Class 2 cards in January 2009. They have worked flawlessly. Something about those Class 2 cards work. Wish they were still available. Right now if I were to buy more 32GB cards I'd go with ATP ProMax.

[QUOTE=Michael B. McGee;1463062]

i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards.
Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Memory-TS16GSDHC6E-Frustration-Free-Packaging/dp/B001ECQVTM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261432961&sr=1-5)
if they don't work, then i'll have to try either one of these options.
1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4
2) Sandisk Extreme III
3) ATP ProMax
4) Hoodman RAW


Hi, Michael . . .

Hope your lab testing of the SDHC goes well, and you find some cards that work nicely. Please let us know your findings.

I too have been looking for some back-up SDHC cards -- I have both the RAW and the MXR adapters. I just tested a couple of the SanDisk Sandisk Ultra II Class 4 32 GB cards. I couldn't get either of them to format in either the RAW or MXR adapters. They just don't work for me. Funny thing, I didn't give up. I found that the SanDisk Ultra Class 4 16GB cards work great. I don't know what the Ultra (without the II designation) means as the card specs look similar -- but the packaging is different. I tried the Ultra 16GB in both brands of adapters I have -- and they seem to work without failing after three full card test recordings. I played around with them a fair bit and didn't once have a "restore media" issue. The nice thing is the cards are only about $50.00 each. The dealer doesn't stock any 32GB, which I'd prefer -- but hey, 16GB is cool too.

On a side note: When I got one of my cameras, I was given a class 2 SanDisk Ultra II 16GB SDHC card, and it's worked flawlessly on several occasions. And this one is only rated class 2!

It seems there are so many unknown factors which can make an SDHC work or fail. I guess when we find media that seems to perform . . . stock up!

Ian

Ian, just FYI the 32GB cards only work with the new 2nd generation MxR adapters, they are out last couple of months. So if yours are older than that it would explain why the 16GB worked, but not 32GB.
HTH

Hi, Alex . . .

Thanks for the heads-up regarding newer MXR adapters. I was testing two 32GB class 4 SanDisk Ultra II (approx. 6 months old) in my MXR and RAW adapters -- so likely being older adapters, this is why the cards wouldn't work as you say.

Question: I am able to use Transcend 32GB cards with the older adapters? Do the newer adapters improve compatibility for the Transcends and / or other brand 32GB cards?

I just purchased (haven't yet used) two MXR adapters at Cine Able Tech in NY, last month. Is there any way from the packaging, etc. to know if these are the newer adapters? I don't have the 32GB SanDisk to test any longer to see if the new adapters perform with the cards.

Many thanks.

Ian

Ian, the 1st generation MxR adapters worked with 32GB Transcend only. The 2nd generation works with any major brand provided they are fast enough (Class 6). Abel Cine, as any other US dealer never carried 1st generation MxR adapters, only 2nd generation. So you should be OK. Let us know how you make out.
Regards

Hi, Alex . . .

Thanks very much for your quick help and input. Much appreciated.

Even though the class 6 are recommended, I am still testing the 16GB SanDisk Ultra class 4 with great results. Have you found the SanDisk class 4 too risky? Will your site, at some point, show recommendations for card brands, sizes, etc. which show considerable promise.

Thanks again . . .

Ian

PM sent.
Regards.

Ian, the 1st generation MxR adapters worked with 32GB Transcend only.

I bought a first generation MxR directly from the Autralian manufacturer. Sandisk Extreme III (30 MB/sec) and Transcend (Green stripe) Class 6 both work for me in 16 GB capacity, although I never overcrank.

Correct, they work with the 16GB cards from major brands like Sandisk, Transcend; they also worked with Transcend 32GB from day one. When 32GB memory became mainstream, E-films redesigned their MxR (also LCR) adapter to accept all fast 32GB memory cards.

do not buy these Transcend cards from Amazon.com. They're supposed to be the "green" labeled(as pictured) cards, but you receive "red" label cards. this just happened to me and another individual on this forum. it's been clearly stated that "red" label cards will not work in ExpressCard adapters with EX cameras.

Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB Class 6 SDHC Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ECQVTM/ref=ox_ya_oh_product)

I'm also learning that there are issues with my early MXR SDHC adapters and the slot in which it operates. My Transcend green stripe 16 GB card showed a media restore error, but the EX1 failed to format the card from MXR adapter in Slot A. When I put the SDHC card in slot B's MAX adapter, no warning messages were issued, and I was able to use the SDHC media for a full hour of recording.

Hi everyone. Like many of you, I bought 2 MxR cards direct from e-films in Australia. They are the older cards which I suppose means they have a limitation on 32 gb cards.

Since the expresscard interface is supposed to be speedy, if we put a decent SDHC card in the MxR, I was wondering about using the card as a scratch disk. It seems like the solid state nature of the card, plus the fast expresscard interface, should make for a quick read/write. Has anyone tried this? Any reasons why it should or shouldn't work?

Thanks all - your advice is appreciated!
John Maler
jmaler@theindygroup.com

The older MxR is not quite as capable as the new MxM apparently but I have no problem using my Sandisk Ultra II 32GB Class 2 cards in them since January of last year.

All these adaptors are USB whereas SxS is PCIe so if you have an expresscard interface that can handle both such as a typical laptop, the SxS will copy at about twice the speed in my testing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "scratch disk" in this workflow. I wouldn't consider using them for playback while editing.

Hi everyone. Like many of you, I bought 2 MxR cards direct from e-films in Australia. They are the older cards which I suppose means they have a limitation on 32 gb cards.

Since the expresscard interface is supposed to be speedy, if we put a decent SDHC card in the MxR, I was wondering about using the card as a scratch disk. It seems like the solid state nature of the card, plus the fast expresscard interface, should make for a quick read/write. Has anyone tried this? Any reasons why it should or shouldn't work?

Thanks all - your advice is appreciated!
John Maler
jmaler@theindygroup.com

Thanks Craig - I should have been a bit more clear. I have a 2007 Mac Book Pro with a tiny 160 GB hard drive, so I'm often looking for a fast external drive solution.

Right now, I edit off a firewire 800 connected lacie external drive. I was wondering if I could edit off the my express card mxr with a fast SDHC card to speed things up a bit.

I've noticed I can export a .mov file from final cut pro to the mxr card pretty quickly, but I don't know if there are any risks to using the MxR as a storage / editing device.

I'm still learning here, but I was hoping that the read/write speeds of the MxR and SDHC card could save me some time.

Any reasons why it should or shouldn't work?



Yes it will work but, it's a USB device and as such will be quite slow. Painfully so I expect.

+ 32gb is nothing in scratch disk terms.

I'd suggest getting ATP ProMax. I'm not sure why MxR is selling it in combination with Transcend these days.


hey Craig, can i ask, why do you suggest the ATP cards? do you have reason to believe these will provide better results, or are you just suggesting that this is another avenue worth investigating?

i have never found any brand (of the 3 i've used), or any single card, to be completely reliable, though one "off-brand" that a producer supplied was noticeably worse than the others. so this has made me curious about the Hoodman cards, but that's really only because i haven't heard anything bad about them. unfortunately, for the longest time no one was really reporting any problems with the Transcends either, so an absence of negative reports hasn't proved indicative of problem-free recording. thus my question regarding the ATP cards....

thanks.

hey Craig, can i ask, why do you suggest the ATP cards? do you have reason to believe these will provide better results, or are you just suggesting that this is another avenue worth investigating?

i have never found any brand, or any single card, to be completely reliable, though one "off-brand" that a producer supplied was noticeably worse than the others. so this has made me curious about the Hoodman cards, but that's really only because i haven't heard anything bad about them. unfortunately, for the longest time no one was really reporting any problems with the Transcends either, so an absence of information hasn't proved indicative of problem-free recording. thus my question regarding the ATP cards....

thanks.

The ATP cards do seem to be reliable. I've been using them for about 4 months now with no problems. MxM also sell ATP cards via their site and an email from MxM published on this forum yesterday reveals the reason they chose ATP was because they've found them to be the most reliable combination with their adaptors. They claim reliability is on par with SxS.

MxM seem to suggest they have contacts at the ATP factory and, for now at least, the cards being produced are extremely consistent.

thanks Marcus. good to know. i'll order a couple ATP's and see how i get on.

You might enjoy seeing this auction.
FAKE Transcend 32GB Class 6 Class6 SD-HC SDHC Card FAKE - eBay (item 330395207452 end time Jan-20-10 20:06:07 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/FAKE-Transcend-32GB-Class-6-Class6-SD-HC-SDHC-Card-FAKE_W0QQitemZ330395207452QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ)
All my transcends i have messed with purchaced from newegg usually, have been as fast and reliable as real sandisks.
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send in the clones
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