Greetings Folks,

I have two questions about microphones:

I have a Shure SM58 and I am very happy with it. The reason why I picked a SM58 is because is the one of the best and the most used dynamic microphone in the world. And on price and quality is the best balanced one as far as I'm concern. I need two more microphones. A condenser mic for voice over and studio vocals and a shotgun to mount on top of my Panasonic HMC150 to shoot a short movie.

1) What is the SM58 equivalent for a condenser microphone?
2) What is the SM58 equivalent for a shotgun microphone?

What I mean with 'equivalent' is in terms of quality, popularity (industry standard) and price.

Thank you very much as always for your advice!!

Peace,

Ben Tolosa

Shure SM58 is kind of live sound "Stage Standard".

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.

Consider the cost, you may take Shure KSM32 or even much lower price Superlux CMH8A for 1, and Audio Technica AT875 for 2.

I have to agree with Anthony.

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
(Though in a music recording studio an AKG 414 is more versatile. and don't forget the 57' for the snare.. and the 421s and the... )

2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.

Shure SM58 is kind of live sound "Stage Standard".

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.

Consider the cost, you may take Shure KSM32 or even much lower price Superlux CMH8A for 1, and Audio Technica AT875 for 2.

Anthony: Do you know if there is definitely a big difference between the MKH416 and the AT875, since the AT is almost 10 times cheaper?

THANKS!!

I have to agree with Anthony.

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
(Though in a music recording studio an AKG 414 is more versatile. and don't forget the 57' for the snare.. and the 421s and the... )

2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.

Thank you Anthony and Nick!!

I appreciate the input very much!!

Have a nice week ^_^

On-camera is pretty much the last place to put your mic if you want good sound for your short.

Anthony: Do you know if there is definitely a big difference between the MKH416 and the AT875, since the AT is almost 10 times cheaper?

THANKS!!



Thank you Anthony and Nick!!

I appreciate the input very much!!

Have a nice week ^_^

Hi Ben, if you put the shotgun on the camera, AT875, MKH416, even CMIT5 won't show too much difference.

The position of the microphone is the most important factor. When you can set the microphone at the sweet spot, difference between microphones mean a lot. My 2 pennies.

On-camera is pretty much the last place to put your mic if you want good sound for your short.

Jordan,

Where would you recommend then?

Thanks much!

Hi Ben, if you put the shotgun on the camera, AT875, MKH416, even CMIT5 won't show too much difference.

The position of the microphone is the most important factor. When you can set the microphone at the sweet spot, difference between microphones mean a lot. My 2 pennies.

Thank you Anthony!

Could you give me an example, let's say between a MKH416 and an AT875?

Regards!

Thank you Anthony!

Could you give me an example, let's say between a MKH416 and an AT875?

Regards!

There is the best example by Dan Brockett
As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html)

Jordan,

Where would you recommend then?

Thanks much!



Even shotgun mics work best at relatively short ranges, in the vicinity of 3 feet, give or take, from the talent. Best position is on a boom with the mic held just out of frame, above and to the front of the talent so its axis is aimed directly at their throat at about a 45 degree angle down from horizontal. Shotguns to NOT magnify distant sounds. What they do is reduce the sensitivity to sounds arriving from the sides of the mic.

Sorry to beat down your post but, We see this all the time... "What is the Best ....."
And when someone replies with an answer, you get back, oh well that microphone is too expensive.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!
If you are going to ask advice about purchasing gear, be honest with yourself, and those people you are asking for advice.

Example.
Hi, I am looking for a microphone that will excel at exterior location sound along with a boom. and my budget for this is...$000
We currently already have the following gear, and we will be using this new mic setup for.

All the Best!

Dave

If anyone is on a budget they should do the research and shop on Ebay.

I bought an old Sennheiser MKH416 for 1/10th the price of new (It still had the ABC Wide World of Sports label on it).

Could you give me an example, let's say between a MKH416 and an AT875?


As others have mentioned, the well positioned $199 AT875R will spank a poorly positioned $1199 MKH416.

I'd recommend investing in the Sound for Film and Television DVD Amazon.com: Sound for Film and Television: Barry Green, David Jimerson, Matt Gettemeier: Movies & TV (http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Film-Television-Barry-Green/dp/B00194G1KY) to get a few real world examples of professional microphones in working environments. This will help you to better understand what gear you might want to buy/rent and what people/knowledge you would want to have on set to ensure that you get the best sound.

If it's apple to apples positioning wise - here's what a $149 RODE Videomic sounds like in the same position as the 416. DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net (http://www.dvcreators.net/shotgun-shootout/)

There is the best example by Dan Brockett
As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html)

Anthony,

Thanks for the link. I read about the AT875R in it and it was very helpful. Overall, a super nice article that I recommend to anybody interesting in shotgun mics.

Thanks very much!

Even shotgun mics work best at relatively short ranges, in the vicinity of 3 feet, give or take, from the talent. Best position is on a boom with the mic held just out of frame, above and to the front of the talent so its axis is aimed directly at their throat at about a 45 degree angle down from horizontal. Shotguns to NOT magnify distant sounds. What they do is reduce the sensitivity to sounds arriving from the sides of the mic.

Steve,

Thank you for the tip. I did not know it, but I am here to learn.
Thanks for teaching me,

Regards ^_^

Sorry to beat down your post but, We see this all the time... "What is the Best ....."
And when someone replies with an answer, you get back, oh well that microphone is too expensive.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!
If you are going to ask advice about purchasing gear, be honest with yourself, and those people you are asking for advice.

Example.
Hi, I am looking for a microphone that will excel at exterior location sound along with a boom. and my budget for this is...$000
We currently already have the following gear, and we will be using this new mic setup for.

All the Best!

Dave

Dave,

No need to get upset with me all right? I am here in peace and learning. I am sorry if I do not meet your expectations, but I am doing my best.

About your request, here is my answer:

Hi, I am looking for a mic that will serve me as a good resource for interviews indoors and outdoors, but I am NOT planing using it with a boom pole. Just over my camera. I do have budget for lavalier mics and for a wireless system (AT1821 with two AT899s), but I also have some budget for a shotgun mic of 500 bucks. I have a HMC-150. I definitely don't want to spend more than that, unless it is really worth it.

Dave, I hope this meets your expectations. I wish you a very successful 2010!

Peace friend,

If anyone is on a budget they should do the research and shop on Ebay.

I bought an old Sennheiser MKH416 for 1/10th the price of new (It still had the ABC Wide World of Sports label on it).

Mark,

That was a GREAT deal. Specially if still performs well.

Thanks for the tip!

As others have mentioned, the well positioned $199 AT875R will spank a poorly positioned $1199 MKH416.

I'd recommend investing in the Sound for Film and Television DVD Amazon.com: Sound for Film and Television: Barry Green, David Jimerson, Matt Gettemeier: Movies & TV (http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Film-Television-Barry-Green/dp/B00194G1KY) to get a few real world examples of professional microphones in working environments. This will help you to better understand what gear you might want to buy/rent and what people/knowledge you would want to have on set to ensure that you get the best sound.

If it's apple to apples positioning wise - here's what a $149 RODE Videomic sounds like in the same position as the 416. DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net (http://www.dvcreators.net/shotgun-shootout/)

Guy,

I just added that DVD and my 'wish list'.

Thanks for the advise very much!

Regards ^_^

...
About your request, here is my answer:

Hi, I am looking for a mic that will serve me as a good resource for interviews indoors and outdoors, but I am NOT planing using it with a boom pole. Just over my camera. I do have budget for lavalier mics and for a wireless system (AT1821 with two AT899s), but I also have some budget for a shotgun mic of 500 bucks. I have a HMC-150. I definitely don't want to spend more than that, unless it is really worth it.



It is going to be very difficult to use a mic at the camera position that will give you a professional sounding interview recording. For pleasing images the camera has to be much farther away from the subject than any mic ought to be placed to capture good sounding recordings. You really need to get the mic off the camera and up close and personal with the talent - there are other ways to do that besides a boom pole but that's certainly the most common approach. I know when you see ENG news crews working, the camera invariably has a shotgun mic mounted on it but they are normally NOT using that mic to shoot interviews. It's there to capture general ambient sounds and as a fall-back where things are happening NOW and there's no time to rig a proper mic. Then there's the difficulty with shotgun mics used indoors on other than an acoustically treated soundstage -they just do not handle indirect sound very well and and indirect reflected sound abounds in normal residential and office locations. That leads to distorted "ringy" recordings that sound like you were shooting down in a metal culvert when you use a shotgun indoors.

As Steve suggested, it will be very difficult to get professional results shooting your film with the microphone attached to the camera.

As Steve suggested, it will be very difficult to get professional results shooting your film with the microphone attached to the camera.

Dave,

Understood, I will NOT do that then. That I did not know, and now I know thanks to you and to Steve.

I greatly appreciate your advice.

Have a wonderful week!

Best Reagards,

Ben Tolosa

I used a Rode NTG-2 on a Sony V1U steadicam camera that I really didn't plan on using the audio from when filming an outdoor wedding last summer.

I had lapel mics on the groom and minister but discoverd in editing the minister moved it to where his clothing was causing a lot of noise. For the vows the steadicam operator was approximately 15 feet from the minister, bride, and groom. To my surprise the audio from the NTG2 sounded great. There was the ambience of the outdoor setting but the minister and the bride and groom were crystal clear.

Even more amazingly the Rode Video Mic I had set up on my little Canon HV20 backup 3rd camera picked up usable audio from the DJ's speaker at least 70 feet away.

I can only imagine what the Rode NTG-3 performance must be based on the great succes I have had with the older less expensive Rode models.

I had lapel mics on the groom and minister but discoverd in editing the minister moved it to where his clothing was causing a lot of noise. .

This is why you should always monitor your audio during a shoot!

All the best!

I knocked this up a few months ago to show the difference between different sort of mics because price doesn't necessarily equate to quality - depends on the circumstances.
Microphone Comparisons - price v quality on Vimeo

Doesn't have a real solid conclusion but at least lets you hear different microphones and what they 'sound' like.

This is why you should always monitor your audio during a shoot!

All the best!

Hmmm....somehow I doubt having my headphones on while operating the camera on the Kessler crane fifty feet from where the minister started speaking would have helped right in the middle of the wedding ceremony.

I did a voice check after putting the mics on the minister and groom with my headphones and things were great. However they had about 15 minutes from that time until they started speaking to move things around!

Real nice job Paul...
I've got an HMC150, and don't have millions to spend, so I ended up Audio T AT807 for the shotgun/book mic for my setup. Once again, it comes back, IMHO to what is your target delivery platform? Since I'm targeting Youtube, dvds, iPhone size devices and maybe TV Monitors at largest, I think I'm getting decent sound quality with this setup. I'm using an AT Lavs, and an AT P48 Cardiod. I'm not fooling myself, I know that these are not 'high end' standards, but they seem to work just fine for my needs. I've got an Octava on order, along with an ATW-T1802 to plug into a mic to sort of 'round out' the kit. Next big spend will likely be a field mixer, as I'm ok mixing on my camera for interviews when the person is sitting, but would like a bit more flexibility when on the run or doing more flexible shooting scenes.

You might want to check out the excellent post "As I hear it" by Ken Stone.
As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html)


It's sort of a reference standard in my books. A very solid review.

Hmmm....somehow I doubt having my headphones on while operating the camera on the Kessler crane fifty feet from where the minister started speaking would have helped right in the middle of the wedding ceremony.

I did a voice check after putting the mics on the minister and groom with my headphones and things were great. However they had about 15 minutes from that time until they started speaking to move things around!


Sorry, I'm not going to argue the specifics.
Bottom line... If audio is important someone on your crew will find a way to monitor it!

All the Best!