This whole forum is buzzing with posts about P2 cards and HD-recording options and such but what I really want to know is: how is the image quality going to be?

How is this thing going to perform in low-light? Let's face it, this camera combined with a MovieTube or Mini35 is going to be incredible, unless the low-light performance is worse than the vx2k/pd150, FX1/Z1 and DVX100...

Does anybody know when image samples and low-light specs will be released?

JD

JVC HD100 rated 6 lux, PD170 rated 1 lux. As image quality, everyone expected JVC HD10 to be better than was and no one expected Sony FX1 to be as good as is. Just wait, see.

Radek

Radek is correct, there's no way to predict, we just have to wait and see footage.

How is this thing going to perform in low-light?

Why would low-light performance even matter? If you can afford to shoot with this camera plus a Mini-35, then certainly you can afford to properly light your scenes, right?

Panasonic has stated that they intend to offer the best combination of resolution, low light sensitivity, and dynamic range that they can get.

As to what that means in real-world circumstances, that remains to be seen. Presumably it won't be as sensitive as a PD170 or DVX; those cameras have much bigger pixels that can really drink in the light. The FX1 is around two or two and a half stops slower than the PD170. I would expect the HVX should be in the same class as the FX1, or the HD100, as regards low-light sensitivity. If it's better, that would be quite an accomplishment. But I can't see how any of them could be as sensitive as the SD cameras, bigger pixels = more sensitivity, and the DVX and PD170 have pixels that are around 3x as big as the high-def cameras do.

Why would low-light performance even matter? If you can afford to shoot with this camera plus a Mini-35, then certainly you can afford to properly light your scenes, right?

Aloha Chris,

Even though I have something like 34 2K frezzies, 24 1Ks, 30 some odd
source 4s, and 24 PAR 64s available for use in the studio I run,
leave it to some dance professor to decide
that the human eye is more important than what the camera sees
for his/her performance. Most of 'em love dim lighting,
so having a camera that can come through when the foot candles and brainwaves are almost nil
can be a good thing ;)

Why would low-light performance even matter? If you can afford to shoot with this camera plus a Mini-35, then certainly you can afford to properly light your scenes, right?

Because for some projects I absolutely love available light.
It's as simple as that.

As for the bigger pixels theory: although it does hold up to a certain extent it keeps on being proven to be less of a mathematical certainty than we'd like to believe, especially in the DSLR world where newer cameras keep on outperforming the previous generation (in the sensitivity area) even though they have smaller pixels. Plus, both the VX2000/PD150 and VX2100/PD170 have the same pixel density/size yet the 2100/170 is a stop better than the 2000/150.

But, indeed, guessing is just guessing... I was hoping someone would know when the samples are to be expected... but I guess we'll have to wait a few more months.

Hmm but dont DSLR have "more" time to gather light since they are only taking one shot at a time? compared to a video, that has to capture an image upto 60 times a second.

No, they don't have more time to gather light... common shutter speeds in still photography can be 1/60th sec. to 1/500th sec. or even higher... what they do have though is more time to process the image. Common maximum frame rates for D-SLR's are about 5fps or so, with a maximum burst of perhaps 20 to 30 images thereabouts.

DSLR's also have the advantage of flashes. Almost all the professional photographers I've seen take flashes and lighting as given. Show up with a video camera - and that's simply not the case.

-Steve

That's right. Professional still photographers always add light where it's needed.

Hmmm

Just like in cinematography, lighting is an essential element of photography and NOT using extra lighting is as much of an artistic decision as anything else.

But the reason why i compared DSLR's sensitivity with camcorders is that people used to claim that a DSLR with smaller pixels could never be more sensitive and have less noise than one with bigger pixels but it keeps on being proven wrong just because a) sensors get better and b)processing chips are better.
So I'm hoping the sensor in the HVX is as sensitive as better SD camcorders even though the pixels are a lot smaller.

But we'll see.

To be fair, within the same process technology, smaller pixel areas receive less light and are therefore noisier. The latest crop of DSLRs boast better noise performance with on-board noise processing (e.g. Nikon D2H -> new D2Hs). I think this in-camera processing for JPEG images is ok, but for final pictures, I would rather have more control over the the noise reduction. Noise Ninja, Neat Image et al are fantastic programs, but applying the noise reduction to the entire image
gives the bright areas a plasticky look, smoothing out skin tones and hair.
So, I just don't see much of an overall improvement in full-image noise reduction if you are trading noise for detail.

Wait until the camera is available. Spec sheets and marketing blurbs always make out that a product is perfect in all ways. Anything can happen between dreaming up an amazing camera on paper and its actual manufacture and release. This could end up producing shit-hot images which blow our minds, or be a turkey which turns into a PR nightmare for Panasonic. Patience, fellow filmmakers, patience. My main concern is the hellish cost of the P2 cards...

However Panasonic delivered with the DVX -- so why wouldn't they with the HVX200?... DVX owners probably began to trust/respect Panasonic ONLY because of that little wonderful camera.

BUT -- I see everyone is dreaming of a perfect HVX200 plus the mini35 as being the mother of all cameras. Honestly, I doubt that this set-up combination will produce perfectly acceptable large screen theatrical images - large screen being the key words here.

Yet, as of now, yes - we can only wait. Everything's possible.

I predict that I'll have to listen to dozens of first time indie directors tell me how much the stuff they shot on the HVX200 looks like film, to the point where I just can't stand the camera anymore, despite owning one.

Then again, if I get one of the first ones to come into Vancouver, *I* can be that guy!

Yeah, it's "deja vu all over again." Remember when the VX1000 looked "just like film." And then the XL1 with its frame mode looked "just like film." And then later the DVX100 with its 24p mode looked "just like film." For some reason the Sony Z1 with its version of the frame mode does not look "just like film." The Panasonic already "looks just like film" even though it's not even out yet. I wonder if the JVC does? Recently I saw a movie shot with the Varicam, edited in HD with a D5 master, then dubbed to SD video. It looked "just like film." Sort of.

Ha ha!

Wait for those days when (all over again!) ANY KIND OF on-line HVX200 "sample footage" would be worth gold.

if the DVX lens is anythign to go by, it will look great.. as for the film look.. well if u want that look, use film...

why waste energy on a unit which FULL specs have even been made public yet???
Dont get me wrong, id prolly get one of these simply due to the fact that already use 2 DVX's and this will just complement those, but for those seeking "film look" if ur that desperate for it, consider actual film.. not everyone wants to deliver on film and for those of us who are in that category, this camera is good enough

BUT -- I see everyone is dreaming of a perfect HVX200 plus the mini35 as being the mother of all cameras. Honestly, I doubt that this set-up combination will produce perfectly acceptable large screen theatrical images - large screen being the key words here.

I wouldn't be *so* sure. I understand what you're saying mate, and you may well be right, but I'm looking to test Z1 footage w/ a mini35 and one of the labs I contacted has already done a transfer from an *SD* camera (XL-1, I think) + mini35 with (and I quote) "amazing" and "stunning" results - so add HD resolution to the picture and it *is* a possibility...

I would be the first to be happy over my mistake, since I do plan to upgrade from the DVX to the HVX when it becomes available.

Me too, I've got my fingers crossed!

I've also just come across an article which says that an (unnamed, so perhaps not to be trusted) lab received better, sharper results transferring SDX-900 footage (alright, bit of a difference there!) with the Pro35 and Zeiss superspeeds than with a Canon HD Zoom, which is interesting and perhaps lays slightly to rest the theory that large scale sharp images are not possible with 35mm adaptors...

Here's hoping!!

Can you post the article link?

Bogdan

Err... Yeah hold on, I think it's on cinematography.com...

Ah ha!!

Here you go:
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=6903&hl=