There are a ton of these ad delivery sites around. I would not be surprised if most of these sites that deliver video ads are gone when the money they raised is gone. I would bet the sales staff that these sites employ is geared toward hooking more investors, not selling their product. The only possible profit would be by selling the company to google or microsoft for much more than they are worth. Lala Media was "valued" at 180 million and Apple bought them for 18 million which included something like 14 million in cash funding that was left - which brings the actual value to 4 million. I think I read that they were going through half a million a month so their days were numbered. Warner Bros. had invested 20 million in the company and just wrote off 11 million of that investment.

Has anybody here ever had their buying decisions influenced by one of these ad sites? Sooner or later their investors will figure it out.

It's kind of like Paystar who told their investors they would sell 1.2 million Mac clones and didn't even sell 700 clones - you know they were just writing out their weekly paychecks from the capitol they raised.

My advice is that if you can knock on doors and sell something like Turnhere you can make a lot better money by selling your own services or for that matter anything else. Sales is a very valuable skill!

I wish I had it...

Sales is a very valuable skill!

I wish I had it...

Funny you should mention...

THAT is the professional development I am working hardest on right now...

I wonder why you would sell to TH to make $225 when you could do the entire thing your self for a min of $1000 and give them a video that they can used when ever where ever they like without having to pay a monthly fee. If I was an owner I would rather pay a one time cost of 1-2 thousand bucks and have a video I can put on my website, on you tube have on a TV in my business then pay a monthly fee to have the video on one site only.

That is of course the rub. The national company will charge probably a similar fee to the local provider, but the national provider will place (in my biased opinion) unnecessary restrictions (both technical and legal) on the use of the video, most likely tied to a subscription service of some sort.

Whereas if the business had contracted directly with someone in our position, then their ability to use the video would most likely be nearly unlimited, and as the primary provider, we would bend over backwards to form a lasting business relationship with the company.

But the national company is the one tied in to all the big money yellowpages companies (both print and digital) and so their marketing money was what brought in the client in the first place.

the first spot i did for them was NOT a freebie, they actually called me with a client.
I have not been called since despite them saying they loved the spot.

For others reading this - TurnHere's policy is that YOU get paid $200 or $225 (I guess depending upon your location) for shooting their free video promotion as long as they accept your work. All video work done for them has to be done to acceptable standards. That seems very reasonable.

Like I mentioned before, this is deal is not for everyone. I am more interested in seeing how many people have actually been called back for regular shoots.

I wonder why you would sell to TH to make $225 when you could do the entire thing your self for a min of $1000 and give them a video that they can used when ever where ever they like without having to pay a monthly fee. If I was an owner I would rather pay a one time cost of 1-2 thousand bucks and have a video I can put on my website, on you tube have on a TV in my business then pay a monthly fee to have the video on one site only.

Ding Ding Ding. I was doing this BEFORE I even HEARD about Turnhere. Turnhere has
the advantage of having 'national' contacts as they are contracted by Yellowpages and
such to provide their videos for them......this gives clients the perceived benefit of
'national exposure'. But really, this thread seems to be about the value placed on
video work. I think that one of the reasons people may do this, is the crappy economy.
If you are having problems getting work, to many people making a couple hundred
dollars can help keep the 'wolves' from the door. We all do what we have to to survive.
That being said, my general feeling is similar to Shaun's in that I think the pay is
very subpar. However, as I said, I did do ONE of these shoots, and it wasn't very hard
and I DID get paid. It helped me make my house payment that month, so I'm not
going to complain. That being said, this is not the kind of pay I am looking for, or
would normally accept. So, I guess I can see both sides of the argument here.

Alright I just had to chime in here. I've done work for Turn Here going on three years now. No it's not high paying but for someone like me it works. I haven't had time to set up and track down clients for a true business lately so the occasional job from them is a nice change and a little extra money. As for having to do all the leg work for them that's just not true. Besides a few days ago posting their link for a free video (which they do pay you for) I haven't approached any business (if I did I would charge them the money to make the video.) TurnHere has always called me offering jobs. If I don't feel like taking it or if I have something going on I don't have to do it. Also the $200-$225 price isn't quite right either. I've been paid more than that for a couple of videos and I know they pay more depending on what the video is or who the client is. I'll admit TurnHere isn't for everyone but for me I like the extra cash for not a lot of work. Also it is a very good way to find some clients and TurnHere has no problem with you doing work for those people as long as you let them know on that particular job you're doing work for TurnHere. Okay I've said my peace. Just thought everyone should know a little more before bashing them, yeah it would be great to get paid a little more but for what it is it's not really all that bad

I assume the $200-225 is paid 1099, no taxes, social security, medicare, taken out. So at the end of the year you pay more taxes because your considered both the employer and the employee. $x isn't the same as get $x as a W2, plus of course no health insurance and no unemployment and no points towards social security.

What about the time it takes to capture the video to your computer? You shoot an hour it takes and hour to capture.

I understand for some of you who work for TH, its better than nothing and expands you contacts for your own business, but I still think your downplaying the amount of time involved from start to finish.

1 hr travel time (30 min each way with traffic. could be less could be more)
1.5 hrs setup, shooting and breakdown
1 hr capture
1-2 hrs edit
.5 hr upload

5-6 hrs if you're efficient for $200-225 ($35-45/hr pre tax income)

I do agree with you Pete that it does take some time to complete even a one minute video for them. Uploading the video really doesn't take all that long because the files aren't that large. If I had regular clients no I probably wouldn't be doing work for TurnHere because of the pay but as I said for me the occasional work is nice until I have time to get a business started and do this full time

I do agree with you Pete that it does take some time to complete even a one minute video for them. Uploading the video really doesn't take all that long because the files aren't that large. If I had regular clients no I probably wouldn't be doing work for TurnHere because of the pay but as I said for me the occasional work is nice until I have time to get a business started and do this full time
I forgot its only a 1 min finished so yes that wouldn't too bad to upload

i just got called from turnhere for two projects, going to shoot them both in the same day.

schemes like this wreck prices for the professional people who need to live from it.

but hey - it is a free market.

but hey - it is a free market.

And every day market pressures are trying to get us to deliver for closer to free. Interesting...

There will always be people wanting us to do the work for free or cheap. Saying "no" (or giving those clients to other people) is the key to maintaining business profitability.

You can always change your mind when it comes to "survival mode", of course.

Andrew

If you work for free, or almost free - it is not survival. Survival would be to go and stack shelves instead.

Just the other day I got a call from one of the major agencies here. They explained in length the project, not terribly difficult but about a good day's work. They wanted something looking cool with good editing and some fancy effects. I asked about the budget. They said, "we don't have one". I said ok, but how much are you willing to spend? (naively thinking "no budget" means "no real budget" They said, ehmm - we just said there is NO budget, so I asked them if they are asking me to do it for free? Their reply was that the client asked them to ask... - .... - .... - after a pause I really had a hard time to remain polite, declining the "job".

Now - the thing is, I do a lot of free or micro budget stuff, but it is always either experimental, art, dance or some kind of "save the dolphin" thing. But this was for an international car manufacturer with global advertising budgets in the hundres of millions....

I understand that people who are not professional and want to get started in the business do things for free or very cheap just to get work and to "get published" but it is a risky path that has to be walked with caution. Even though it sounds good, a very cheap "getting to know me offer" might land you your first job with a client. But honestly, why should they pay you what the job is worth if you were able to do it much cheaper the first time. I have tried this and in my experience: It doesn't work.

As I mentionned, I do a lot of dance stuff, mostly contemporary and modern. The companies are really struggling for money, dancers get paid close to nothing. Still I charge the companies real money. What I charge is about 30% of what I would charge commercial clients but they come up with the money and pay. Even though there are a lot of people out there who would do it for free. I do it better, they know, they want it, I give everything to make it the best I can, and they pay. And more and more companies get referred by people I worked for.

One of my old bosses (when I still had one...) used to say: "Pay Peanuts - Get Monkeys"

or like someone else said:

"if it costs nothing - it's worth nothing"

which is certainly true for many areas, fashion, cars, photography, art....

There are other sayings such as ...

"It's okay to bend over backwards to please a customer, but that doesn't mean we want to bend over forwards."

Andrew

I have done two shoots last year for TurnHere. Two all year. Here are the links to the videos I produced and are on YellowPages.com
New Image MedSpa:

http://www.yellowpages.com/info-1481598/New-Image-Medspa?auto_play=true&back_to=%2Fname%2FColumbus-GA%2Fnew-image-MedSpa%3F

Americus Dental Associates:

http://www.yellowpages.com/info-429474/Americus-Dental-Associates/?auto_play=true

I got paid as promised in a timely manner. My question is why only two shoots? You can judge for yourself the quality of my work by viewing the videos. Is it my work or something else on their end? The paperwork is a bit of a hassle and preparing the videos for upload gave me trouble, but I enjoyed the work. On the MedSpa shoot, I did the VO myself. Anyways, there is my two cents. BTW, I am assuming TurnHere will contact me for work in my area, which is Columbus, GA.

Links not working, unfortunately.

Andrew

Links work here.

When rotating your clips for Web delivery, make sure to zoom into them enough so that you can't see the black null space around the clip. Several clips have issues in the dental office piece.

Larry: the Med Spa piece is significantly better than the dental office piece. If I could offer one bit of advice, consider giving the movement in your shots a little more forethought. In one clip you reverse the move in the shot and dissolve out. In others the movement seem tentative. If you don't nail the move, go back and repeat it. And if you are going to do kinetic shooting, get the best tripod you can afford. Or more accurately, find a way to afford a better tripod.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to DVi!

Larry,

Not bad work. Sure, others may have done it differently, but they didn't do it did they? You did!!

Your voice-over in the medspa spot did sound a bit mechanical, like forced annunciation, but they message was easy to get.

Why only two shoots? Who can say? It could be any one of a number of factors. Perhaps there just isn't a demand right now.

I've been contacted via (unsolicited) email by an upper echelon member of TurnHere regarding my postings in this thread. I won't say who it was or what was said, but I can assure you that TurnHere is completely aware of the what's been said here.

Jeff

I've been contacted via (unsolicited) email by an upper echelon member of TurnHere regarding my postings in this thread. I won't say who it was or what was said, but I can assure you that TurnHere is completely aware of the what's been said here.

Glad to hear it. I stand by my words and will live (or die) by them. One of the things I love about DVi is that it is a real names board.

I hope that it was only my inner cynic that read this news as a potential "threat" that "they know who's being naughty and who's being nice". It is in MY best interest to protect my market share. And as a part time educator, it is in my PROFESSIONAL interest to point out to my students that their actions may have consequences, both to themselves in terms of being "blacklisted" and to the industry in general in terms of undercutting.

In all seriousness, if the bottom completely falls out of video production, I'll move on to driving truck, selling tools, flipping burgers, whatever. I LOVE what I do for a living, and as long as there is an opportunity to maintain it as a viable livelihood, I'll speak out where I can. If it becomes no longer viable, I'll get a "real" job and make important films for free for people who need and appreciate it.

Not bad work. Sure, others may have done it differently, but they didn't do it did they? You did!!

And for the record, advice and critique WAS requested. I don't make a habit of offering advice unsolicited. That would be bad form.

Larry, two shoots is likely all of the market penetration TurnHere has at the moment in YOUR market. Armed with your reel, and your growing experience, why not approach businesses yourself and offer to put them up on the Web? YouTube is free, as is Google Local Search, so all the local business has to do is pay your going rate for a Web spot creation.

So why wait around for a non-local entity like TH to generate business in YOUR town? Generate it yourself, and get paid what you are worth. I think you'll find local business and your local Chamber of Commerce are almost untapped (and un-touched) by meaningful video production. I see enormous growth for it in the next several years.

FWIW, I agree with Shaun's critique. I would also say try to avoid using a zoom at all. There's a reason they're almost never used in feature films and used ALL OVER THE PLACE by armchair videographers. A dolly move, a push, gentle tilt, rack focus... cinematic moves. I've read that the zoom "feels" unnatural because the human eye can't zoom... the other camera moves, it can do (by moving one's head or one's body).

HTH,
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions

Shaun, would you please stop taking anything I write as a comment about you. I was referring to "others" in general and I would have done it differently than Larry.

I respect your opinion and work but you are not so important to me that I want to go out of my way to pick at you.

Stop wearing your feelings for socks and they won't be so easily stepped on.

Jeff

I've investigated and corresponded with TH and am still on the fence. One concern of mine about TH's terms is that I'm in a very heavily populated market, yet their offer to me is/was only $ 200. I don't know how/why they would pay more ($ 225) in other markets; haven't figured that out yet. Maybe because I'm on the opposite coast and/or there are so many more shooters to pick from in my market. (I don't mean to make/provide excuses).

My biggest disagreement with these companies is that often, AFAIK, mine is the only face they see during the entire process. I could make or break a shoot/business relationship depending on how I treat the client, yet there seems no remuneration at all for being a sort-of "sales force". I'd really like to see an arrangement something like their normal fee for shooting/directing, plus maybe a 2% to 5% commission/residual of the total - or at least initial - sale.

I've done jobs similar to these for 2 other companies, but won't mention names.
The 1st I worked for gave me only 1 or 2 shoots; haven't heard back from them in months. Also, I've noticed that the spots created from those shoots are no longer posted on the web. Those jobs required shooting & directing on-site, but no editing or sales effort, other than being considered a "representative" of their business while on-site, in the sense of mine being the only face the client sees and deals with in person. (Personally, I've been very accommodating and friendly, despite telling the client that I was not an employee of the company, and think that, in itself, deserves more than they pay). They paid slightly less than TH offers.

The 2nd has been very accommodating. I can always turn down a job if I'm already booked, and, if they specifically want me, they've even gone so far as to re-schedule jobs to accommodate my schedule, handling all the rescheduling arrangements with the client. It performs all sales, scheduling & contact w/client, (except for a call from me the day before to confirm time & availability). It even provides a storyboard, and requires only that I shoot following that SB, keep a shot list, obtain releases, and send off the tape and paperwork, (though I wish they allowed for FTP transfer rather than sending tapes).
These jobs are the most fun. (I've even appeared in a few shoots when we were short of on-camera characters).
Most jobs are scheduled for 2 hrs; longer scheduled times get higher pay. They encourage b-roll, which probably gets me more call-backs, but no additional $ for the time taken to shoot it.
If a job runs over, I can call to get permission to extend the shoot and, if granted, the extra cost falls on the client. No editing required from me.
They pay for the job and reimburse for tape, mileage (though less than the Federal/IRS rate), and postage. They even provide me with their shipper's account number so I don't have to lay out $ for that. Because there's no editing, these jobs are much faster to complete, and I've done as many as 3 in 1 day. (Matter of fact, for one very select client, I got paid more than I invoiced; seems I misunderstood the payment terms on that specific job and they corrected it without me even mentioning it).
After reimbursement, the $ varies; sometimes more than TH, sometimes less; depends on the distance, but because time spent is considerably less, I make it up in volume. Last year I did as many as 30 jobs for them and I've learned that I'm among their most frequently called shooters in my area. (Round-trip travel for some jobs is in excess of 100 miles).
Personally, I welcome these jobs and hope to get even more this year, because they help me pay some bills in this slow economy. They can also provide potential opportunities for additional work (see below).

Other things/tips I've learned that may help indies doing these spots on their own:
1) depending on the client, there are opportunities for you to pick up other work. Example: if the client is a "gathering place" of any kind, you may be able to pick up additional work from them, e.g. seminars, meetings, banquets, parties, etc. Be sure to leave a business card, contact info, and a good impression.
2) each company encourages as much b-roll as possible. I think I've learned why: after a period of time (not sure how much), they re-cut from the original footage and post what amounts to a different or updated spot. Indies could do the same, i.e. get lots of footage on the initial shoot, and store it. Then, after a period of 3-6 months, replace the original spot with a re-cut from that stored footage. No additional shooting is required...only some additional editing/upload time, and you never even have to leave your studio. It could serve as a great marketing tool, i.e. you're aware of - and prepped to deal with - clips going "stale" over time, and new footage gives a better perception of a busy, vibrant business. You could charge what you want for that service.
3) both companies I've shot for charge the client a (relative) boatload of $. One job I've done involved shooting over 2 days, took about 12 hourstotal time, about 5-6 locations, and the client told me what they were being charged. Knowing that vs what I was paid, I got peanuts and the company got the main course. I was really kind of proud of the footage I provided and disappointed that I didn't earn more for it.
4) most spots are between 30 and 60 secs, though they can be as long/short as you and the client agree to. I've done one which might almost qualify as a "short". That was scripted and storyboarded with lots of input from the client, who had a specific vision of what he wanted. I showed him all the footage, and he was so pleased, he even tipped me.
That spot after company editing was approx. 3 mins long.
5) from most shoots, I end up with approx. 20 min of footage. Depending on how the client(s) take direction and respond, that can involve multiple takes, lots of b-roll, and even shots not called-for in the SB, but each take usually includes at least a few seconds of usable footage/"bites" for later use.

Working for such companies is really a personal decision, but thus far, I've enjoyed it and hope to do more. (Nearly everyone I've met on these shoots has been great; very interesting, funny - even "provocative" people), mostly willing to go to any length to help you get footage you're satisfied with. Many help set the scene, dress the set, and even catch some things you might not notice while working alone, such as an exposed T-shirt or bra-strap. Most are willing to let you call the shots and be creative as you want, as long as you satisfy the SB. The hardest part is keeping them focused on the time. For them, shoots like these are novelties - something fun and out of the ordinary; for you, it's your work.

While I'm still undecided about TH, I hope to continue to get work from these houses, particularly the 2nd company, at least until my network broadens enough to get more lucrative work. (Lately, that seems to be happening; I've recently rec'd small jobs to provide on-screen testimonials and serve as a "spokesperson"...all using a pseudonym, of course).

Good luck to those who choose this option.

Apologies for dragging this out, but my intention is three-fold:
1) to be helpful to indies who might pursue these short web spots on their own,
2) to let shooters for these companies know some of what they might face if they decide to pursue these jobs, and
3) to encourage businesses that hire shooters for such spots to re-think their compensation.

While these spots are not feature-length productions, a decent-to-good shooter/director/editor can be a real asset to growing a company's business.

To elaborate on what I see as advantages of working for "company # 2" mentioned in my previous post, they provide:
- the entire sales and marketing effort,
- all time and costs spent contacting the client,
- composition of the storyboard,
- writers dedicated to writing the script for VO,
- actual recording of the VO, (sometimes male, sometimes female),
- editors dedicated to the entire editing effort, including overlays, lower 3rds, etc.,
- revisions and re-cuts based upon client needs, and
- billing/admin costs.
This company has staff dedicated to each of those efforts.
Other "houses" expect all those tasks to be done by one person, for only a few dollars' difference.
That's a BIG difference in the amount of time, the amount of work, and the range of talent (e.g. writing, recording VO, etc) to handle each task required, all for nearly the same amount of compensation.

HTH others who, like me, are still on the fence.
Good luck.

Denis,

Your content here is excellent.

Andrew

That new pitch seems pretty stupid but we have made some money in the past off of them. We charged more than what they offered and had our lower level employees go out and shoot the videos when we had the time. We did like 4 or 5 shoots. They pay some bills but they're kind of a hassle. Things like Turnhere are good when you really need them and not worth it when you don't.


Blare Media - Video Production - Commercial Videography (http://www.BLAREMedia.net)

I applied once but never heard back.

But once you check out demandstudios.com, THEN YOU'LL SEE SOME ABYSMAL RATES.

You get paid $20 for 1-3 minute videos with Broll and credits. They try to bait and switch you by saying it's $200+ per job (which is abysmal alone) yet look under each assigment, you see it's actuall 10 1-3 minute videos at $20 a pop, totalling $200...

ON TOP OF THAT it's up to you to find an EXPERT as a volunteer or paid out of your pocket that must be approved.

God damn.

I was going to work with demand studios on their expert videos, but then i realized I'd rather get paying work elsewhere. :-)

Looking at their "about us" page, I wonder how much they paid for their video. Don't think it would be their lowball rate.

Andrew

WOW!!!

Demandstudios makes Turnhere look pretty good. I'd sure like to hear if anyone has had a positive experience with DS, as a video producer.

Jeff

Both these schemes are not good for anyone's professional career. If you are starting out in the industry and it's experience you are looking for, go to your local whatever, school, grocer around the corner, bodyshop, hairsalon, whatever.. make a cheap film for them. They will never afford a real production and you get experience. They are happy - you are happy.

These DS people have a interesting website which I find extremely misleading.... "job security" was the first word that jumped at me. HA! sure - but what about "security of income" isn't that what people actually mean when they talk about "job security"?
I watched the video of the poor guy with the house full of kids. "I can work from home" he says. Well - he has to - because with the rates they pay him he cannot afford an office ... And of course he can play with his kids - he has to - because his wife is out working to support the family and sustain his hobby.

Actually, even journalists / writers are bellyaching about Demand Studio.

Scroll down and check out the first comment on this item (http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2010/02/journos-arent-helpless-against-market.html):

Andrew

So you're doing 5 hours of work for $100?

In this economy, if you've got nothing else going for you, $20/hr is not that bad a wage. That's more than $40k/yr if you've got 40 hours of work from it.

I used to make $60k at my day job, but I recently took a job in New Zealand that pays $26k. If Turnhere wants to offer me $100 for 5 hours work, I'll take it.

Been there...done that. There's another company called Studio Now that does this too...only they pay more ($255). I've used both companies.

It's interesting to read posts backing these companies up. I used to do that too, until I figured out a few things. Understand that these companies thrive on the fact that too many people justify lowballing their rates. I read things like "I only do it when I'm slow" or "I did three of them in one day and made $675." That's exactly what they LOVE to hear!

Keep in mind that making one of these videos in a 2 or 3 hour window for these companies is on a perfect day. Don't forget the fact you must be open to 2 rounds of revisions. Meaning, the company can reject your video for any number of a million reasons and then the actual customer can do this as well. It might not be that hard...but still...opening up the editing software, making the change, re-exporting then re-uploading takes TIME. They also like to change up stuff on you in the middle of the project. I even had a "script" emailed to me after I uploaded the first cut. Do I get to say "Hey, I need to get PAID to do this re-edit?" Of course not. Guess what? I DONT GET PAID AT ALL UNLESS I REDO THE EDIT. They are holding all the cards here, not us. There's also the times when I drive out to the location and the business owner says: "Oh I canceled that last week." That's happened to me more times than I care to admit...because it's quite embarrassing. They send me a cancellation fee of $50, but there were a couple times they plum forgot to send me that.

For those of you who are backing these companies up and saying things like "hey...if you don't like it...you don't have to work for them and leave us alone," you need to understand something. People who lowball standard industry rates make it hard FOR EVERYONE. If these cheapie video networks grow...then WE'RE ALL at risk of losing work. Joe Blow business owner would gladly pay $500 for a video that would cost them $2000 from a reputable professional production company. They don't care if you tell them that "they get what they pay for" until you're blue in the face....they will still most times go with the cheaper service. The more of you willing to work for very little, the less and less clients will budget a higher expense for making these videos. It will only get worse!

When I worked many years ago in the hotel industry we had something called RATE INTEGRITY. There's a reason why a completely empty hotel during slow times won't reduce it's rates if someone walks in wanting to pay less than the standards. If you want, read my blog post below to hear more about this.

I wrote this a little while back because I too saw that these companies are coming up with ways to undercut legitimate video professionals and conning people into being paid lowball rates. Give this a read:

My Opinion About Some Internet Video Networks - Crooked Path Films Blog (http://crookedpathfilms.com/blog/2010/02/03/my-opinion-about-internet-video-networks/)

I'm not trying to stir up a fight or be a jerk or anything ...but I see this ALL THE TIME in the industry and it's frustrating. If we all hold true to our standard rates, and maintain RATE INTEGRITY, then these companies will have NO CHOICE but to pay us the fair and justified amount.

Have a great day guys and STICK TO YOUR RATES! It's OKAY TO SAY NO!

Oh by the way....I noticed someone posted that Turnhere is watching this post...

I was contacted the very same day I posted that blog post by someone claiming to be a former Turnhere videographer who now works for the CEO...and wanted to let me know that the CEO himself was going to call me. I politely told him that I probably won't be taking his call, and if he would like to dispute anything that I wrote in my blog post to kindly respond in the appropriate "comments" section, as I believe everyone needs to hear the response...not just me.

Needless to say there was never any response to the blog nor a phone call.

A bit of fresh air and sunlight keeps a discussion healthy. Sounds like a good idea.

Andrew

Turnhere charges the client $1000 for the video that they're paying filmmakers to shoot and edit for $200-$250. Great deal for the Turnhere hustlers!

Instant infomercials: TurnHere makes millions from video ads - Jan. 21, 2009 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/21/smallbusiness/turnhere_ads.fsb/index.htm)

Richard, Great blog post and update on Turnhere. Thanks for posting and reinforcing the point.

My Opinion About Some Internet Video Networks - Crooked Path Films Blog (http://crookedpathfilms.com/blog/2010/02/03/my-opinion-about-internet-video-networks/)

It seems that many if not most of the postings here are by people that can't get work from Turnhere or have completed a handful of jobs, and may be waiting for a call to do more. I see similar comments on Sports Photography and Photojournalism for Professional Photographers and Photography | SportsShooter.com (http://www.sportsshooter.com). Hey, don't work for x amount of money. Well, that business never was high paying for most of us, and is worse now.

Many of those same people that made those comments are now working on some college degree in another area. Physics, MBA, medical, etc. No connection to photography work at all.

As has happened with most businesses, the online video market is constantly changing. TurnHere responds to the changing market as necessary. Originally, they did travel videos. That is how I became aware of them.

I've looked at most of the videos here and contacted them a few years ago with an interest in doing the same type of work. TurnHere: Free video guides for travel, restaurants, hotels, local events & music (http://turnhere.travel/) However, this business model didn't pay off and they started providing ads for the yellowpages which offers them to phone customers.

Take a look at what has happened with newspaper photography. Most newspaper photographers are very good at what they do, the years of working and thinking on their feet cause that to happen. Still, the internet, the proliferation of cheap digital cameras with ease of use and minimal technical skill to get an acceptable photo has nearly wiped out the professional photojournalist.

I'm thinking the same thing will happen with videographers who don't develop a highly skilled ability to use all the Final Cut Studio applications and others video products such as motion graphic applications.

TurnHere used to call video producers, but now everything is on their website and you have to constantly look on their site for new jobs. I'm assuming that the only time they call is when they don't have anyone to do the job.

They do have a staff of people and a helpful site that will cultivate you as a professional. Yes, I've had jobs that pay 5 times as much per day. I don't see how anyone can actually do one of these jobs in 2 hours. You have prep time, travel time, time to get releases, editing time, uploading time, invoicing time and so on. I have found some of the claims to be optimistic.

Still, I value the work and have completed dozens of jobs for them. Hopefully there will be more. When considering working as an independent contractor in the IT business, I've done jobs that pay less than what Turnhere pays. Eventually, I got one that lasted 5.5 months, which made up for doing some jobs that paid me $50 to go across town, pick up something, fix something, send something in and finish the online paperwork. Even so, they still want you to work for less money. So I pick and choose. Some, if you consider travel time and expense, actually result in a loss or minimum wage payments and I don't do them.

We all aspire to bigger and better things. Companies like this can be a step along that path. Embrace it or not, it's your decision.

One comment I recently read was that even if you do go into some other line of work, the things that may be holding you back from success may still be there even if you do get that masters degree.

Finding out what they are and how to overcome them will help all of us in our quest for success and happiness.

I realize this thread is old, but I think it's a great topic -- especially for someone just starting out in the business and who may come across Turnhere or another similar company. Before I say anything else, it really irks me that some people are telling others (in so many words), that their rates are too low, or they shouldn't accept certain amounts.

While I do think helpful critiques are in the spirit of this forum, at the end of the day, everyone has different overhead, etc...and what I may need to charge to make a profit may be drastically different than what the next person may need to. There is no universal "right" or "wrong". Just "right" for the individual in question. Furthermore, as most of us know, market rates vary from market to market.

I did some work for Turnhere back in 2008. While I don't do work for them anymore (my business has grown), there were some great advantages to working for them:

1- They take care of the marketing. You don't have to market to clients, deal with contracts, etc...nothing. Shoot, edit and turn over your project.
2- They paid on time. Never had to chase them down.
3- It can be a fantastic learning experience for someone just starting off. You really have to know at least the basics of shooting, editing, lighting and sound.
4- Great flexibility and a great opportunity to make extra money if you're in a slow period.

Disadvantages

1- If they don't approve your video, the extra hours you spend re-editing can make the hourly rate even lower.

While I no longer shoot for them, it was a great experience. If other people don't think their rates are reasonable, I respect that. But I had a great experience shooting for them.

I have to agree with Chad - a few years ago, I had been laid off from my day job and my wife had lost her job, and Turn Here was providing some pretty steady work to me at the time and I was very thankful to have that income.

It was a good experience and Turn Here was great to work with, paid on time, no headaches. With my current full-time day job, I'm unable to accept any shoots during the work week, so on hiatus with TH.

Jeff Pulera