Thanks for the quick turnaround Taky. Looking forward to these and the 256's...

Taky, would you choose the 5600K version (of the LED256) for wedding use? (I'm a Comer 1800 user).

5600K is day light balance. If you use it indoor, video will come up very cool/blue. People in the video will look like dead body. So you will need to have some sort of CTO gel to lower the color temperature to be used indoor.

Taky, would you choose the 5600K version (of the LED256) for wedding use? (I'm a Comer 1800 user).
Galen, I am going to answer here, because I think Taky might give the wrong answer, based on my personal experience with daylight balanced lights and Tungsen. BTW I also use the Comer 1800s as well.
I picked up the 5600k versions of the Coolight 600 and 256.
The reason is that the lights come with 3 sets of gels, one being a 3200k tungsten filter.
The 5600k light has stronger output than the 3200k anyway, so I would have rather had a daylight light that I can use in front of large windows for mixed indoor lighting shoots and if needed gel to 3200k.

5600k will give you more options. 3200k will limit you to shooting pretty much indoors only, and if you wanted to gel to daylight, you will lose more light output from a light that already has less throw than a 5600k led light.

This is why many shooters prefer daylight balanced lights. More options.

Oh an BTW, the lights work great indoors.
I have been using them for a couple months now and love them.

Given the discussion here around the Coollights 600 and 256, I have a few questions about LEDs from CL, specifically the 600.

1. Are the LED lights considered "soft" like a flo, or are they hard like a tungsten light? Meaning if I want them to be soft will I need to put a softbox in front of them like I would with an open-face or fresnel?

2. I know that overall throw is the primary difference between the 600 flood and spot, but is there a "general rule of thumb" as to which might be better for someone to have in their kit over the other (kind of like having your lights at 5600k is a better rule of thumb even if you need 3200k since you can balance down to 3200k more easily)? I can see the flood being more "broad" and thus being a more interesting general purpose light, but perhaps having the spot with a softbox is almost the same, such that unless you have one of each you might as well just get the 600 in spot and a softbox for when you need it to disperse more broadly?

3. I have a 455 PMD from CL and love it - and was thinking of getting another. However, I'm wondering now if I wouldn't be better served getting the LED 600 instead. Can someone help me understand why I might use a flo vs. and LED and vice-versa? I imagine this might be related to question #1 above.

4. Michael, Richard, and others that understand the LED offerings from CL - other than the previously-mentioned use of fresnels to throw cookie patterns on the wall with the necessary softness that you can't get from essentially a multi-lighted panel like an LED, when would you see yourself needing a tungsten light kit instead of the LEDs? Basically I have a 3-light Arri 650W open-face kit that I'd love not to have to haul around to make sure that I have enough lighting for interviews, small narrative lighting, etc. Am I mistaken thinking that I can replace that kit entirely with something like my 455PMD (4-bank Coollights flo - with both 5600k and 2900k bulbs), 2x LED 256's, and say an LED 600 or two (yet to be purchased)? Where might I find myself unpleasantly surprised if I got rid of the Arri kit and went 100% flo and LED? I do still have 2 650W CL fresnel's so I won't be truly 100% tungsten-free, but you understand what I'm saying...


Thanks again for all the help! I can't imagine what I'd be doing with lighting and filmmaking without your guys' help on this board... :)

1). LEDs fall in between flos and tungsten / hmi fresnel type instruments in terms of hardness. Its a big source comprised of a bunch of miniature spotlights. Each spotlight puts out a hard light, but is too weak by itself to do much. Together they form a useful light but also one with a big surface area so it doesn't render cookies well but it is more hard and has more throw than a flo for sure.

2). Flood by itself isn't as soft and the flood or spot in the softbox, thats why we did that attachment. Regarding the comments on point 1 above, you have to soften up either a flood or a spot further if you like soft light.

3). They all have their place. You can't use a flo as easily in some places where power may be an issue like in a car, or a cave. LEDs are super efficient and can operate easily off of DC power without more help other than a battery. Flos may be better and more economical for use in a studio for example for lighting a cyc. LEDs would be horribly expensive for lighting a large cyc. So they both have their uses and strong points as well as points for improvement.

4). Hard to say. You have some people out there that love tungsten and won't give it up for various reasons. That type of person maybe wouldn't like fluorescent or LEDs either. You already have our CL-455PMD and you like the results so you don't seem to fall in that category. I'd say that if you like the flo, but there are times it seems too big or it just doesn't work as well (man on the street interview, etc.) then you'd love the LEDs for where they are strong. I'll try to think of other things and repost later.

Thanks for the response, Richard. Helpful as always. A couple of follow-ups:

2. So for a hair/accent light a spot would be a better choice, but for a key light the flood might be the one to look for? Any reason that the spot with a softbox wouldn't make as decent a key light vs. a flood with the softbox? I noticed also on your site that you only have an option for the LED 600 5600k in spot configuration - are you currently out of the flood 5600k?

3. Noted - this makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

2). Yes the spots are probably better hair lights although since the floods are still pretty hard, they can work as well. I generally recommend spots for use with the softbox because they're more powerful and can provide more light to make it through the diffusion. The floods will work too but are a bit weaker out of the softbox. So the softbox and a spot are a great key. With the dimmer you can turn it down if its too powerful for some reason.

We are currently out of floods, they went quick but hopefully will have some more soon.

Richard - much thanks for the reply. There is a sale at the end o this relentless questioning, I promise. :)

So it sounds like the spot is the way to get especially as you're out of 5600k floods anyway.

I have two softboxes for your 650 fresnels - are they the same as the LED softboxes and if so, do you sell the speed ring attachment for the LED lights independently so I can just pick up one of those and use my existing softboxes?

Ryan the speed ring is built into the LED600s Softbox.
It's super easy to setup, as it simply unfolds and pops open, then you just slide it over the light with the supplied accessory holder.

I must say it's truly a very creative design.

Thanks, Michael - good to know. I'll plan to pick up the softbox when I pick up one of the LED 600's.

As Michael said (Thanks Michael!), its a different design than the other softboxes and requires a different speedring. We wanted something new, fresh and easy to setup as well to go along with the whole idea behind these fixtures which is to make everything as portable and compact as possible. So the "speed softbox" is just that, fast to setup without the rods of the older style "studio" softbox.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the rods, honestly. I always make sure to wear my glasses when I'm fiddling with those because I have visions of those things snapping up and nailing me in the face. "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...". :)

Thanks, Richard.

Are you ever going to make a Sony BP battery mount, for the EX batteries? I would really love this!

Was just shooting with a 600 this weekend - something I'm noticing is that LED panels can't be compared directly with either fluorescent or incandescent in terms of 'hardness' as they really combine aspects of both. You get a reasonably diffuse light which is flattering to faces, similar to a flo - but you also get hard specular highlights which tend to highlight oil, sweat, etc on your subject's face. Haven't tried the softbox yet but an opal over the panel definitely smoothes out the highlights.

I didn't have any plans to make the BP adapter at this time but you never know in the future if its popular enough and enough call for it we may do. The mold fees are really high for this kind of thing so there has to be a lot of call for it to pay that back.

Evan - what's an "opal"? Are you talking about the diffuser that ships with the LED 256?

Hi:

Opal is a very common grade of diffusion.

Dan

Hi,

I got some LED600 fixtures from CoolLights and I'm wondering about which battery to choose. I've seen you guys using the NP-970 style batteries but that only gives 7.2 volts and the lights need 10-24v. This might be a silly question but how can the lights operate from a smaller voltage supply? Any advice here, Richard?

Thanks,
Zsolt

Hi Zsolt,

That's the LED 256 that runs on that particular battery. It's not meant for the LED 600 at all. You need either a lead acid type battery belt like some that Bescor makes, or in general any battery solution that provides a standard 4 pin XLR output.

An AB mount type or a V lock type is another choice but you need the interface we sell to go with either of those. I don't generally recommend that someone buy those though unless they already happen to have some for their camcorder. Its a tradeoff of size/weight for cost basically as those AB or V types are quite a bit more expensive.

BTW Richard, what should the runtime be on the LED256 with Sony 950 or 970 battery.
I ask because mine are draining pretty fast.

I was getting about 90 minutes with the Sony batteries on the LED256.

Dan

90 minutes or so is about right.

Can someone tell me what do the full,1/2,1/4 factors mean in the filter namings? In particular, I'm interested in how many stops of light do they cut down from the overall output of a source.

Thanks,
Zsolt

According to Rosco International (http://www.rosco.com) a full CTO filter is 1.1 stop loss, 1/8 CTO is .1 stop loss, etc... Next to their sample images is a spectral chart icon which tells you the amount of light absorbed from each filter.

The 1/4 minus green is about .3 stop loss. The 1/2 minus green is about .5 stop loss. Yes, the full CTO is about 1 stop loss.

Jem Schofield at thec47.com has posted a gearbox video episode with the led 600 (spotlight, flood, and flood with softbox) here. It helps illustrate the differences.

theC47: learn... camera » lighting » audio » post » tech - gearbox - MessingAround (http://www.thec47.com/gearbox/messing-around.html)

In this link, here demonstrates the Sunlight Supply Tek-lights, a flo solution cheaper than the kinoflos.
theC47: learn... camera » lighting » audio » post » tech - gearbox - Feeling GreenPt.3 (http://www.thec47.com/gearbox/feeling-green-pt3.html)

Yeah, Jem is a fan, super prolific in his VLOG and has a lot of our equipment. I think he's done at least 5 or 6 segments on Cool Lights equipment alone. Thanks to Jem and to Allan for posting those links.

I'm looking to compliment my existing MicroPro light for talking head interviews. I'm thinking of buying 2 600 coollights (1 spot and 1 flood). Using Flood as my keylight, Spot as a fill, and MicroPro as a backlight. Would that be the best option?

John:

I have the two 600s, one spot, one flood as the basis of my travel/interview kit. The Coollights LED256 would be the superior and logical choice as your third light in the kit. In that way, you would know that the color rendition and balance between all three lights would be pretty much the same. Mixing manufacturers may find that the Coollights 5mm LEDs render colors differently than the LEDs in your MicroPro.

The LED 600s rock and the LED 256 is a dream of a light. Small, powerful, simple to use. I really, really love my Coollights, they have changed the way I light.

Dan

Hi Richard,

I live in the UK and am looking at getting some LED CoolLights (when you have some in stock). How does it work with us overseas types? Do I need to get a power adaptor to plug it in? How much would delivery be roughly? Just trying to work out the overall cost. Also will you be doing any bundle kits for the LED lights, say if I wanted to get a couple of 600s and a 256?

Thanks

Adam T. Davis

Hi Adam,

Thanks for your interest. They are in stock in China now and its about the same to ship from China as it is from the USA. No power adapters needed other than perhaps a UK plug adapter or replace our cord entirely (which you can) with a UK IEC type (like those used on desktop computers). Voltage already adapts though.

Why not contact us now at info@coollights.biz and we'll give you all the details.

I've been using these amazing lights for the past 2 months for all my wedding filmmaking needs. Really, really fantastic stuff. Coupled with sony batteries, it's really a versatile and portable lighting solution. I bought one pro-light prior to these lights and the pro-light never leaves the bag unless I need more than 2 lights. If there's an interest, I'll link a film or two in which the LED256 was used.

Thanks for all the great support Richard!

Randy I would love to see some LED256 wedding samples.
I have been playing with the idea of using two LED256 lights for dance reception footage. My only concern with them was how the throw woudl be on a dance floor compared to my two 75w tungsten lights.

I normally use two NRG Varalux lights on 12 foot light stands, and large Bescor battery belts at the base for power purposes as well as added weight support for the light stand itself. The only reason I might consider still suing battery belts with the LED256 lights is that I would get much longer battery run times with more power. As well as the ability to use a remote control to power the lights on and off remotely. The remote control sits between the power source and the light itself. The remote simply turns the current on/off via a remote.

The only way around this using Sony batteries at this time is using a Sony battery sled. This way I could attach the battery sled to the light stand, and place the remote in between the sled and LED256 (which would plug in via XLR).

Hey Michael,

I get about 45mins to 1hr of battery life off of the large sony batteries that Taky sells thru lacolorshop. I've found that it's been enough to suit my needs as I have four of them that I bring. The coollights are very light so I don't have a huge worry of them falling over during indoor weddings as I did with my arri 650s.

This first film, the cool light was used during the photosession at night. During the first dance, two cool lights lit the dance floor, they were a bit too hot as it was a small floor but we needed to stop down so I didn't adjust them.

Sharon ‘ Luis – Highlights // Tis the season! Colour Craft Media (http://colourcraftmedia.com/blog/?p=196)

This second film, the cool lights were used as side lights on each side of the bride and groom while a pro-light was the main during the ceremony :

1,000 Paper Cranes // Brandi ‘ Reid – Same Day Edit Colour Craft Media (http://colourcraftmedia.com/blog/?p=211)

I have a love story that I shot using these and really love the look it gave. Once that is finished, I'll be sure to share it.

Thanks,
Randy

Randy thanks for the samples.
One quick question...
Are you shooting with DSLRs only. I ask because this will make a difference in light sensitivity, especially compared to what I am shooting with Sony FX1's.

How does the light throw compare to a 75-100w tungsten bulb?

And my comment about adding weight to the base of the light stand was to add weight to prevent the light stand from moving or tipping over easily. I'm not too worried about a small on camera light tipping over, but don't need light stands being kicked or tipped over easily on to people.

What I might have to try is seeing if I can find a good battery sled for the lights, maybe dual would be cool. this way I could place the sled on the light stand itself, and thus avoid having to lower the light stand in order to swap out batteries.

Hi guys,

I'm looking at the Cool Lights as an option instead of tungsten lighting.
The kit I think that would suitable is: Led 2 x 600's and 1 x 256.
I would use theses on interview and also I do a lot of product info commercials.
What is the light throw on led's vs Tungsten. At times I need to light up products on a wide shot so I would need to keep the lights out of frame but also lighting my scene.

The Cool Lights look great but wondering for my needs are they an all rounder?

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Hi Simon,

Lots of people are using the LED 600 in a similar use. I would say the throw on LEDs is better than fluorescent but not quite as good as tungsten. You've got a mirror, bulb and lens all working well together on fresnels to give a good hard light. The LEDs do quite well at putting out a kind of "medium" hard light if that makes some sense. I think the decision is often based around ease of setup and whether battery use is important to you. And of course whether the "hot" lights are an issue for heating up the studio area as well as the power they use.

If those aren't a consideration then perhaps tungsten is a better choice in some cases.

Randy thanks for the samples.
One quick question...
Are you shooting with DSLRs only. I ask because this will make a difference in light sensitivity, especially compared to what I am shooting with Sony FX1's.

How does the light throw compare to a 75-100w tungsten bulb?

And my comment about adding weight to the base of the light stand was to add weight to prevent the light stand from moving or tipping over easily. I'm not too worried about a small on camera light tipping over, but don't need light stands being kicked or tipped over easily on to people.

What I might have to try is seeing if I can find a good battery sled for the lights, maybe dual would be cool. this way I could place the sled on the light stand itself, and thus avoid having to lower the light stand in order to swap out batteries.

I followed you on your comment about the weight from your post earlier, no need to explain yourself on that.

I shoot with all DSLRs now but have shot with FX1s for years. With that said, the power of the cool lights should be more than enough if you know how to light an area rather than just trying to brighten the whole room with the FX1, depending on how large of an area you're working with. A large 20x20 dance floor and I think you would have a little bit of an issue but still manageable. I had to use my arri 650s for a dance floor that size a while back when still shooting with my HMC150, but the 5dmk2 footage from that same situation was well lit so I could have done with the LED256s if need be.

As far as throw compared to a 75-100w, couldn't tell you in direct comparison as I use the 250w pro-lights. I've had to use bescor/nrg lights in the past as on camera lights when I was shooting for another studio and it "lit" the scene ok, but I'm not so much into lighting a scene for it to be bright rather than shaping.

I've read about everything i can about these lights here and on the web site. I shoot with a 5Dmk2 and a 550D and was wondering if DSLRs may do better with only the LED256 would make more sense for fill while keeping the other light ratios the same if that make any sense. I noticed that they are out of stock now....or is a LED600 just a better deal and dial it down (turn banks off as needed) I really refer well lit without the talent looking lit. And I know with the DSLR like the 5Dmk2 i may have a higher ISO range than with other cameras such that less light may be desirable.

Moslty used for interviews and some music video too.

I think the both LED256 and LED600 cannot be mounted on camera..

I have T2i (550D), for video in dark, anything over ISO 1600 is not usable. It looks good on the 3" LCD screen but when viewing on big screen, all grainy.

no i wasn't talking about on camera - i'd use light stands which i have plenty of

I think either the 256 or the 600 works well as fill. You may want the extra power sometimes in a room with an uncontrolled window so the 600 may be more welcome sometimes.

Harry, I have both and they are equally nice for different purposes. You probably want the 600 first as you really do need lots of light with the 5D2 to get the iris into a decent range. Shooting a live event where little light is possible necessitates f1.4 and a small light, but that narrow focal range is not acceptable in a fictional narrative. You will need 8x the light to go from f1.4 to f4 so the 5D really does need just as much light as other cameras. The 256 is a really nice small light, but it won't do anything to work against a room with a sunlit window. Outdoors, the 600 just barely takes the ugly out of the shadows on a single person. The sun is just amazingly hard to work against. Reflectors are the best bet outdoors, but they don't have the control of artificial light so a combination is nice.

Thanks Richard and Marcus,

Yes reflectors are often too much on a sunny day - I try to get talent under shade and then add light that can be controllable so the 600 sounds like the way to go. Turning off banks is alway an option too.

For indoor interviews say two people I reckon I need two 600s and a couple of 256s for hair light. Hey Richard - ever consider "bundle" deals? ;-)

Thanks
Harry

Just a note on the LED600's and indoor use.
We use 2 LED600's and an LED256 as hair light. We tend to use the LED600 with the softbox (which BTW is a brilliant fast design). If you want to diffuse the light by usage of softbox of diffusion paper, get the spot configured version of the LED600. As the flood version of the light isn't quite strong enough for softbox use.

<<If you want to diffuse the light by usage of softbox of diffusion paper, get the spot configured version of the LED600. As the flood version of the light isn't quite strong enough for softbox use. >>

hmm - seems like if you are gonna diffuse a Spot version - you'd just buy the flood version....guess i'm not too clear on the difference between the two types in the light design itself.

are the LEDs closer together or something on the spot version?

hmm - seems like if you are gonna diffuse a Spot version - you'd just buy the flood version....guess I'm not too clear on the difference between the two types in the light design itself.

Harry, The light output from the LED flood version, wasn't soft enough for my taste. I preferred a slightly more diffused light source. LED lighting is soft but it's not as soft as fluorescent lighting is, which I like. However I prefer the portability and versatility of LED lighting over florescent.

When I attached the Coolight softbox to the flood version, the light output was cut too much for my taste. However, the spot version is a stronger light source, since it tighter in pattern and more directional.
The softbox worked well in this setup, giving me soft light output, without losing as much intensity.

The difference between flood and spot is the beam angle of the LEDs used, that's all. 60 degrees for flood and 40 degrees for spot. They each have their own uses but the flood alone is not like a fluorescent or other kind of soft light. Spot is definitely better for use with the softbox. Flood is a good daylight fill for example.

How does that 600 LED compare to the CDM 150, in terms of throw, beam spread, etc.?