i am using an FX1. i don't use a light at the reception for speeches. what is the preferred method of trying to control the lighting when the couple, or speaker, is sitting/standing in front of a massive window letting in the brightest sun you've seen?

i guess a light on the camera would reduce that, but in the situation i was in the other weekend, my only position would have been reflecting the light right back into my camera...i had to strategiacally place myself so my reflection would not been in the shot (which would have only been noiceable once the sunlight started to dim near the end of the speeches.

zoom in tight, use backlight compensation feature (don't remember if FX1 has that or not), ride the manual exposure while trying not to get too much blowout... You'd need a mighty zippy light to beat strong daylight backlighting!

Don't stand straight on to the windows.
I get this in about 50% of receptions I do and unless you're pumping out at least 100W with a daylight filter on the light it has very little effect on the backlight so stand off to the side at an angle to the window and while it may not be the most flattering shot going, it is far better than shooting dead on into large areas of glass and strong backlighting.

FIRST thought do try to set an exposure as described by Dave but if you see that's not going to work which in many cases it won't then move to an angle. Not a profile but something 25 to 45 degrees off axis, then get in tight. You'll still have to compensate some but it won't be as big a swing in exposure.

thanks guys, those sound like great suggestions

I had a similar situation recently - the reception room had huge windows all around, and there was bright afternoon sunlight coming in from all over the place. The overhead lights helped a little... BUT most of the audience was of extremely dark complexion - native Africans living here in Atlanta, some travelled from Africa for the event. It was a very difficult shot, as the reception speakers moved around constantly.

I tried all of the above, but there was no way to do it right... corrected some more in post... I received no complaints about it...

[I was shooting with a Z1 - and yes, both the Z1 and the FX1 have back light, you need to assign it to one of the F buttons].

Would it be possible to place large neutral density gels (filters) on the windows ahead of time? Even a big roll of Home Depot grey "window tinting" would be better than fighting direct sun backlight, I'd think.

I have never worked in a venue where they would allow me to gel the windows at a wedding reception. Hell, some won't even let you close the drapes. Not to mention from a time standpoint there just isn't time to do something like that, although there have been many times I wish I could.

As Don says, if you've got time to fiddle with filtering the windows on a wedding shoot, you're not paying attention.

The FX1 does indeed have a backlight button but don't be tempted to use it - it's useless (unlike, funnily enough, the intelligent spotlight button).

Best thing to do in these circumstances is to accept that the windows will be blown out exposure-wise. Brace yourself for a galloping zebra onslaught and lock the exposure down by aiming the camera so that no window is visible in the v'finder, lock in that reading and re-frame the speakers.

Don't film too wide or the over-exposed windows will be too strong for the framing, though much better that than having silhouetted speakers and beautifully exposed lawns with strangers walking about on them.

tom.

Hi All

I try to insist (nicely!!) that the people doing a speech come up to a lectern at the reception and also try to have them put a fixed mic on the lectern so I can clip my radio mic to it. That way YOU can control where the speeches are done from with the best background. Also it stops the more animate speakers from running around with a handheld mic making them difficult to follow and light!!

I had one where they wanted to do the speeches at the bridal table and the wall behind was totally mirrored!!! Bad news for lighting!!! and the chance to easily get yourself in the shot!!!

Chris

Yep, mirrors and backlight. I don't know which is worse. However my advice for mirrors is the same as backlighting. Move to the side and shoot from an angle.
What I REALLY love are the headtables that are up on a 2 foot high platform. :-(
Since I'm only 5'6" and shoot with a DVMultirig, I end up shooting up their noses. Now put THAT with mirrors or backlighting and you got yourself a real nice can of worms! ;-).
Sigh, gotta love it!

Hey Don

If everything went perfectly we would have nothing to talk about!!! It's the difficult situations that make it interesting!!!

I had a shoot yesterday with the bridal party spread out on a huge garden staircase so the couple were pretty much 6' or more higher than the lawns!! It ain't easy working with your tripod at maximum extension (which is only 6' anyway)!! We had 30 degree heat (that's Celcius!!) an impending rain storm and hundreds of flies as the resort decided to coat the flower beds with fertilizer (the organic type!!!) plus about 99% humidity!

Who says that shooting weddings isn't interesting!!!

Chris

Since we record from in front and behind the couple we've often had the situation the OP describes. Unlike Tom we've found the Z1 backlight button a useful start though if the lighting's very extreme the iris is the only solution.

More tiresome was the recent reception held late afternoon in a white marquee with the sun effectively "behind" the top table from where the speeches were made. As the sun set so the light level and colour temperature changed - a nightmare in post.

A pallate load of 800 watt RedHeads comes to mind... :) that and manual iris control... and fixed colour temp setting..

Funny you should mention the fixed mike for the speeches. I had one client veto that saying a wandering mic would be better - until the issue of getting it on tape was raised. then he agreed..

Ben

Hi Ben

I had one wedding last season where the "funny man" decided to act like a motivational speaker and walk (even run) from one side of the room to the other!!
I normally have one cam on the speaker and then the other cam on my shoulder for cutaways. Following this guy was almost impossible even on the cutaways cam!!! I normally clip a radio mic to the fixed mic on the lectern so I had to rely on the 2nd cam's mic for audio and thru a PA is doesn't exactly sound great!!!

However I must admit that most behave well and stay put!!!

Chris

People are so unpredictable. When I've explained the necessity to 'stay in range' of my table top mic they've sometimes unclipped the house mic and wandered off with it amongst the guests, moving from table to table.

I actually think this is a good thing for speakers to do as it adds variety and keeps guests awake (is he coming over to our table next?). So now I use black masking tape to attach my tiny Samson radio mic directly to the house mic's body and get ace sound all the time.

Or do I? The unpredictability is still there - at a wedding last month the first speaker threw down the house mic (and mine with it of course) saying how much he hated such things. Of course his DVD audio will be forever blighted.

tom.

That's why I don't piggy back at receptions anymore. I run a Sennheiser E604 drum mic in front of the DJs or Bands speakers and run a hypercaroid on the camera. In the years I've been running that way I have to say my audio is pretty good. Meaning, good levels, no hiss hum squeeks or pops.
The most important thing is that no matter where the person speaking is or goes, I can still pick it up. One track or the either if not both and I don't worry about my mic getting tossed around.

Tom's experience, having your microphone potentially trashed, must chill us all, but surely this argues for radio mics on each speaker and guns on the other channels to cover the asides and banter from the guests?

The only decision our speakers have to make is whether they'll keep their jackets on or if they'll throw them (and the mic) over the back of their chair.

Of course nothing's fixed and there'll always be exceptions - like an event we're recording in Mayfair, London next month where all the speeches will be made from a lectern on a raised dais - with such an obvious fixed point we're planning to risk a fixed mic (an AT133A plugged into a radio pack) with three (AT897) short guns for banter and backup. It's not the sort of event we do frequently so if anyone's got any suggestions they'd be welcome.

Brian:

Since Im guessing you have already shot the video and it didn't work out too well, maybe you can add in some timeslipped cutaway shots if you have any that are appropriate (if you you weren't shooting the reception with 2 cameras).

Im starting to shoot receptions 2 camera just because of either backlighting issues or someones big head right in the way.

Here's our little trick: My wife and I have black knee pads from Lowes. We lower our tripods to about three feet and get down on our knees right in front of them. We MAKE SURE the DJ/MC calls the speaker to stand flanking the couple (behind them) on either side. Our lights give us plenty of light because we're so close, and we don't block anyone because we're so low. Sometimes we may have to move a glass or flowers to the side, but that's it. One of us shoots the toaster and one shoots the couple (or all three if possible). We can avoid light reflection by shooting kitty-corner instead of straight ahead. We decide at the time which is better.

Not a bad idea Dana, and as most zooms are a stop and a half faster at wide-angle that means less gain-up in the gloom.

The low POV might look a bit odd at times though?

I've gone close and low a time or two - and yes the POV can be a problem.

A bigger problem is the trend to use a wireless mic and have guests toasting from their tables after dinner.

No, as usually the B&G are seated, so they are eye to eye with the camera. The toaster is looking down, but that's the same perspective that the B&G has. When they watch the video later they will remember that perspective and trigger more memories.

On rare occasion that we're just too close, we'll shoot the subject who is farther away from us.

Dana - if you are still at eye level with the couple how does your trick help when they are sitting in front of a bright window?

It's evening. It's never bright unless our lights are hitting it. By changing our angle it's not a problem.

The low POV might look a bit odd at times though?

Tom is right of course. No-one is flattered by a low angle portrait.

It doesn't seem low to me. our lens is eye level to the sitting couple, which is the ideal shot considering they are ideally lit and maybe one guest has to look around our light. The speaker is looking down to the bride, so the other camera essentially has the same view as the bride.

Try it out and see what you think. That's the only way to really tell. I would rather have that shot than block a bunch of guests and annoying the photographers.

BTW, our lights are fairly high above our cameras per an adapter that we both use, so even being down low we can light them well.

In that case Dana it seems to me that you've missed the point which started this thread. I'm trying to visualise your description but it it seems to me that if you're not shooting low angle, you have two cameras blocking the view of many guests and have lights on sticks even further impeding the guests' view.


i am using an FX1. i don't use a light at the reception for speeches. what is the preferred method of trying to control the lighting when the couple, or speaker, is sitting/standing in front of a massive window letting in the brightest sun you've seen?

i guess a light on the camera would reduce that, but in the situation i was in the other weekend, my only position would have been reflecting the light right back into my camera...i had to strategiacally place myself so my reflection would not been in the shot (which would have only been noiceable once the sunlight started to dim near the end of the speeches.

My mental picture is exactly the same as Philip's. I think we need a real picture to overwrite these mental ones.

Hi Brian, we use the FX1 also and shoot in manual, bright backlights shouldnt be an issue. The backdrop will be blow out but as long as the subjects are lit correctly you should be ok.

In auto the camera will close down the iris, even with the backlight button pressed it still isnt right.

Go manual and use the iris to get you where you need to be, if needed, you can boost the gamma in post.

Just keep doing it the way you're doing it. Try my way if you want. We block far fewer people by physically staying low with only the camera and light popping up.