I've been trying to find a sticky or blog that really outlines all the settings or steps needed to achieve great video results. Not as a rule, but a starting point. I'm curious to see your thoughts on where I have arrived below and what you are doing different (if anything).

Normal Video Shooting:

Frame rate: 30p; shutter speed: 1/60
Frame rate: 24p; shutter speed: 1/50 (unless HMIs, then 1/60)
Frame rate: 60p, shutter speed: 1/125 or keep 1/50 or 1/60?)

Highlight Tone Priority: Off
I see more vertical banding with HTP on.

ISO:
Whole number: 100, 200, 400, 800, 1000, 1600, 2000, etc

or: 160, 320, 640, 1250, 3200 (all taken from: Canon 7D ISO versus noise test images Marvelsfilm’s Blog (http://marvelsfilm.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/canon-7d-noise-and-iso-test/))

Color Profile
I've been using Superflat and Cine Style. A great video demo can be found here:
Click the link to the Vimeo page to download the scene files.
How to increase the Canon 7D dynamic range (Tutorial) on Vimeo

Noise Reduction
I've left this at Standard and haven't done any tests here to change it.

White Balance
I always try to set a temp instead of Auto. I've heard that Auto might introduce other noise or artifacts.

Focus
I always have the lens set to manual focusing for video and time lapse.

David, do you have link to Cine Style. I have been using super flat.

Luka has all the downloads on his Vimeo page (in the description).

This is the direct link for the Cine Style from Martin's blog:
Canon 7D Picture Style with Cine-gamma (S) Curve – free download Marvelsfilm’s Blog (http://marvelsfilm.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/canon-7d-picture-style-with-cine-gamma-s-curve-free-download/)

I don't know where that picture style1 come from but I have never seen bad video like that, I think he must put some kind of a dirty filter on it to exagerated the difference. (-:

All of the shutter speed is for normal, but hey if you are doing event with available light, do what you must to get the right exposure, go down to 30th if you have to, go up to 4000/sec if you outdoor and got no neutral density filter or don't have time to put it on, I like to use the K settings and change the white balance until it looks right, but if you are indoor and under extreme warm light, use the manual white balance because it will go down all the way to 2000K, the K settings only goes down to 2500K, shutter speed should be 160, 200, 320, 400, 640, 800, 1250, above that doesn't matter, the lower the better, I also use Marvel's preset but turn down contrast more all the way cuz I think it is still too black, everyone has different taste I guess.

The super high shutter speed would only be set to maintain the shallow DOF, but you lose the 180° shutter to have any motion blur. I might be temped to adjust the aperture before the shutter speed (after I already set ISO to 100) unless I was going for that time-freezing feel.

I'm getting some ND filters so I can keep a "normal" shutter speed and wide aperture, but sometimes you have to do what you have to in order to get the shot.

I am in Manual exposure mode.

I can only change the shutter from 1/30 to 1/45 to 1/60 with the dial.
Canon advertises that I can use ANY shutter speed.

What am I missing ?

I can go from 30 to 4,000 in mine set to 1080 30p. I haven't tried it in other settings, but I pretty sure it will in all of them.

I had to set Exposure to 1/3 stop. It was set on 1/2 stop for some reason.

Then I can change, but only in increments of 10,
1/30 1/40 1/50

I am in Manual exposure mode.

I can only change the shutter from 1/30 to 1/45 to 1/60 with the dial.
Canon advertises that I can use ANY shutter speed.

What am I missing ?

You can't select a shutter speed below 1/30 in video mode, but you should have everything above available: 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, 100, 125, 160, etc. Most video cameras can't go below 1/30 or 1/15 if that's what you are asking.

Very cool, thanks.

So maybe I missed something. Is there a place to download your preset picture styles? If the software is no good then are there certain settings or something?

Very cool, thanks.

So maybe I missed something. Is there a place to download your preset picture styles? If the software is no good then are there certain settings or something?


There are links to download picture styles if you go to the Vimeo page. They aren't mine, but a collection of others.

I actually have been using the Super Flat, but will start doing some tests with the Cine Style too to see which will work best for me and post grading.

I found the cine style from Marvel to produce strangely pumpkin-colored skin tones. Superflat seems better. I haven't fully explored why and I think some of Marvel's bloggers complained of the orangey tone and Marvel had some suggestions.

I'm interested to see if we have come to conclusions about the ISO and HTP settings.

Looking through the forum, some say HTP should be on, but not for low contrast picture styles. Others say on, but not above ISO 600-800. There are others that say HTP should always be on at high ISOs. Other blogs say to keep it off entirely.

Also, ISO 320, 640 and 1250 were said to clip highlights, effectively the opposite of HTP. From reading, those ISOs should not be used with a low contrast picture style either.

My question now is (which may require me to do testing later today):
If we are capturing an image intended for post processing, do we use HTP, low-noise ISOs, both or none? Is there a rule for when to use some settings (indoor/outdoor/particular lighting scenarios)? I am using a low contrast picture style for grading, but it seems that HTP and the odd ISOs should not be used in that case. I don't want to clip highlights if that's what the ISOs are doing, but I don't want to introduce more noise in the clip. But, raising the low-end by a stop before compression would be better than raising in post (after compression) which is what HTP does.

From Daniel Browning on other forums:

When you select "ISO 320", what the camera actually does behind the scenes is set the analog ISO to 400, then reduce brightness digitally with a -1/3 stop pull. That makes it look as if you had used ISO 320, except that 1/3 stop of highlights are clipped. The upside is that noise is less.

It's like the opposite of HTP (highlight tone priority). HTP sets the analog ISO to one stop below whatever you pick, giving 1 extra stop of highlights, then increases the brightness digitally with nonlinear EC (to preserve highlights), which increases the visibility of noise. So HTP trades shadows for highlights.

The other tweener ISO settings (125, 250, 500, 1000) should be avoided, because they do a 1/3-stop push, but don't bother to preserve the highlights, so they increase noise for no benefit.

----


• 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600: normal amount of highlight headroom.

• There is little difference from ISO 100 to 200, because most viewers can't tell the difference in photon shot noise, and the read noise drops by almost a full stop in ISO 200.

• 125, 250, 500, 1000: considered harmful. 1/3 stop less highlight headroom and 1/3 stop more shadow noise.

• 160, 320, 640, 1250: fine, as long as you are aware of the decreased highlight headroom. (Clips 1/3 highlights to get 1/3 more shadows.)

• HTP should *always* be enabled when the ISO is higher than 1600.

• There is a careful balance between increasing shadow detail through ISO (which clips highlights) or through HTP, the picture profile (e.g. contrast, tone curve), or Auto Lighting Optimizer. Generally, the higher you go in ISO, the more beneficial it is to use non-ISO methods to increase shadow detail. For example, ISO 3200+HTP (actually ISO 1600) is better than the real ISO 3200. ISO 800+HTP may be better than the real ISO 800, but it depends on how much highlight headroom you need.

Just a quick update regarding 60p settings:

1. When shooting 60p to use in a 24p(23.976) timeline for 2.5x slower motion than realtime:
Shutter speed: 1/120

2. When shooting 60p to convert to 24p for realtime playback in a 24p timeline:
Shutter speed: 1/60
(closest to 180° shutter speed of 1/48 in 60p mode)

At least this is what I am testing now...

You can't select a shutter speed below 1/30 in video mode, but you should have everything above available: 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, 100, 125, 160, etc. Most video cameras can't go below 1/30 or 1/15 if that's what you are asking.

On mt 7D, I just verified that when in movie mode, set to M, that I can go 30, 45, 60, 90, 125, etc....

Where is 1/50th?

You have your camera setup for 1/2 stop instead of 1/3 stop increments for exposure.

Menu > Custom Functions > Exposure > Exposure level increments > 1/3—stop.

If you have made settings that you are unsure of when you first started, just clear all custom settings and clear all camera settings.

Thank you David!

To avoid flicker when shooting under artificial especially fluorescent lights the shutter speed for 50Hz PAL land should be 1/50.

Nigel is absolutely right about that.

One thing to bear in mind (at least when in PAL settings/countries) is that the 720p mode on the 7D only seems to let one shoot with a slowest shutter speed of 1/60th (= no good for any indoor stuff where fluorescent lights are around due to the horrible "strobing" you get). 1/60th is of course fine in NTSC/60Hz countries to avoid this effect but no good here in the UK! I can't get it to 1/50th in 720p mode when set up in PAL (but 1/100th would work to avoid this effect...or any multiple of 50 but of course... but just gives less motion blur/can look too "steppy".... so I tend to like those type of shots at 1/50th).

Maybe I missed a setting somewhere? (only had the 7D a couple of days) so if anyone knows how to get 1/50th shutter speed (with 720p 50fps) let me know! No real worry for me as most of that stuff I'll do on my EX3 anyway but it would be nice to have the choice to do that type of indoor shot on the 7D too.

Andy, I believe you are correct. Unless the setting for shutter speed increments is 1/2 instead of 1/3 by chance, I don't think the camera will allow slower speeds than 1/60 even though you are in 720p50.

The 180° rule for 720p50 would be 1/100th anyways, right? I know that doesn't work in my theory of shooting 50p and converting to 25p for realtime and keeping the shutter 180° to 25p for real time.

Anyone tried the Genesis Panalog PS?

I'm about to start some comprehensive testing with all frame rates and picture styles to compare various workflows to grade, transcode and various methods to minimize skew.

I'll put everything on vimeo. I guess it will be more of a video explanation of all the settings and should help out others with "seeing" the difference between various settings.

David

I, for one, would be really interested in seeing that.
Look forward to it.

I'm about to start some comprehensive testing with all frame rates and picture styles to compare various workflows to grade, transcode and various methods to minimize skew.

I'll put everything on vimeo. I guess it will be more of a video explanation of all the settings and should help out others with "seeing" the difference between various settings.

That would be awesome, thanks David!

That'd be great. Looking forward.

I'm working in UAE and only 1/30 and 1/100 shutter speed worked under fluorescent light.

My testing is becoming so comprehensive, I'm thinking of turning it into a training video:

"Independent Filmmaking and the 7D"

While I'm not a news journalist or documentarian, I do have a background in visual effects and video production—which should make this very interesting (green screening, motion tracking, basic and creative lighting, etc). I'm covering all of the "tech stuff" for some of the photographers coming into video but aiming to present it all visually so you really understand what looks like what and which rules to keep in mind.

What would you guys like to see covered?

Here are a few topics:
Bare necessities for 7D filmmaking (not the endorsement list!)
7D for Run N Gun
Lighting your scene for the 7D
Shooting for post color correction (grading)
Shooting for green screening
Getting that shaky cam without the jello
7D vs EX1 comparison

I didn't want to just explain camera settings, but rather show you how I shoot, edit, grade and deliver. Any thoughts?

My testing is becoming so comprehensive, I'm thinking of turning it into a training video:


What would you guys like to see covered?

Here are a few topics:
Bare necessities for 7D filmmaking (not the endorsement list!)
7D for Run N Gun
Lighting your scene for the 7D
Shooting for post color correction (grading)
Shooting for green screening
Getting that shaky cam without the jello
7D vs EX1 comparison

I didn't want to just explain camera settings, but rather show you how I shoot, edit, grade and deliver. Any thoughts?

Green screening, lighting, EX1 comparison.

What would you guys like to see covered?

Here are a few topics:
Bare necessities for 7D filmmaking (not the endorsement list!)
7D for Run N Gun
Lighting your scene for the 7D
Shooting for post color correction (grading)
Shooting for green screening
Getting that shaky cam without the jello
7D vs EX1 comparison



I vote the following in order of preference most to least...

1. Lighting your scene for 7d
2. Bare necessities for....
3. 7D vs EX1 comparison.
4. 7D for Run & Gun
5. Getting that shaky cam...
6. Shooting for Green Screening
7. Shooting for Post Color...

Do a really good job, post it somewhere and charge people $20 ($10 for your Dvinfo pals! <wink>) and I'd pay...

Jon

Sweet guys. I have a few scenes setup to go through some filmmaking 101 too (although I am explaining lighting scenarios in all the scenes). There are a few surprise characters involved, but I really want to focus on creating that "cinematic" shot.

I'm planning on showing some tips with footage in Final Cut Pro as well as After Effects if that doesn't seem to far away from the filmmaking side of things (going back and forth from live action to screen capture on the computer).

I've seen tons of posts about messing with the picture settings (sharpening, contrast) .. My question is does it matter which quality setting you use in movie mode? Will RAW produce a better image then the L setting or is there a default value set by the camera in movie mode?

Original RAW image data is never changed by using Picture Styles or other controls in the camera. These styles and/or settings in camera only affect JPEG or h.264 files because the camera is converting those images on the fly to a compressed file. The RAW image file includes data detailing your camera settings, but can be removed or changes with RAW image editing software (Bridge, Photoshop, Aperture, Lightroom, etc). For JPEG and movie files, you don't have wiggle room to change later. That's why it's best to have the camera create an image with as wide of a gamut as possible so you have room to compress later.

Try this:
Neutral (picture mode)
Sharpness (all the way down—left)
Contrast (all the way down—left)
Saturation (down 2 notches—left)

You may want to do some tests to see what works best for you—especially if you don't want to do post color correction on your videos. All of this "flattening" is to give you the best possible image to grade later, but doesn't look good if you don't color correct later.

PS: When shooting RAW, your white balance doesn't matter. You do need to pay attention to this with JPG and movie files. AWB should never be used for video.

I vote the following in order of preference most to least...

1. Lighting your scene for 7d
2. Bare necessities for....
3. 7D vs EX1 comparison.
4. 7D for Run & Gun
5. Getting that shaky cam...
6. Shooting for Green Screening
7. Shooting for Post Color...

Do a really good job, post it somewhere and charge people $20 ($10 for your Dvinfo pals! <wink>) and I'd pay...

Jon

I've seen tons of posts about messing with the picture settings (sharpening, contrast) .. My question is does it matter which quality setting you use in movie mode? Will RAW produce a better image then the L setting or is there a default value set by the camera in movie mode?

I think what David Chapman is saying is that the 7d does NOT record RAW. I believe that's something on the 7d wishlist.

OK.. Im sure is was a newbie question but I just upgraded from a T1i and full manual control is a whole new world .. i got so use to trying to manipulate to exposure by pointing the camera at a dark or light spot on set.. but maybe its me but the T1i seems a lil' sharper.. Am i smoking crack or what? im still playing around with it, ill be running test all weekend.. i'll post results later

Gerald, are you asking about Picture Profiles or image quality (Raw, sRaw, Jpeg, etc)?

You can only shoot quicktime in movie mode (h.264), but you can shoot anything else in photo mode.
Brian, what do you mean you can't record Raw? Raw stills! ;-)

About the picture profiles:
It doesn't matter what your picture profile is when shooting RAW. It does matter what your end goal is when shooting video or Jpeg (do you want to post color correct or not).

As far as the sharpness, I really believe there is some enhanced sharpening by default with the T1i or at least that the scale is different from low to high. To get images that don't seem as soft on the 7D, try upping the Sharpness in the picture profiles (pick one) a few notches. Maybe you should take a photo at every picture profile and at each sharpening adjustment to see the difference.

My take? Canon made the T1i sharpen more digitally in camera for consumers and the 7D more "normal" as the pro Photoshop photographers always unsharp mask anyways.

Update:
Try setting the 7D's sharpness to 2 to match the 50D and 3 to match the T1i. Other people have noted that the anti-alias filter is a little stronger relative to the individual pixels on this sensor (compared to the T1i or 50D).

oh believe when i say im not comparing the T to the D .. there's much more detail in the imagery .. I'm doing some scene tests this weekend. i'll be sure to post my results when done.. So far, im not mad at the 7d..

It's been a month - hows that training video coming along Dave ?

Hey Andy,

It's actually coming along really well. I should have a site up soon with a "preview" of the video. I'll keep you guys posted on here.

David,

You mention using whole number ISOs instead of 160/320/640/1250, which show the lowest amount of noise with the cap on. What is the reason for this?

Thanks.

David, since this is now the David Chapman ISO Q&A thread, would you ever recommend the '160 multiples' ISOs? What about if you are in a dimly-lit situation where you're just not going to get an optimum range of luminance? Would the 160 multiples help reduce perceived noise?

There is something in the Sony EX1, which I also own, called 'negative gain' that I had several discussions with experts over on that forum, and the conclusion was that if you didn't need the headroom, using the -3db setting reduced noise in darker areas of the image, but also lowered headroom. My argument was if you're going to lower the headroom, why not just pump up the overall light reaching the sensor?

The analogy that made sense to me was that the 'negative gain' setting was like a attenuating the input less on an audio mixer before the preamp. You want to increase the signal as much as possible to the sensor, which overcomes the inherent noise in the sensor, but it will 'overload' at the high end faster. If you can live with that, you get lower noise, but at the expense of headroom. Please comment if you have an opinion about this.

Anyway, if you can addres this

My testing is becoming so comprehensive, I'm thinking of turning it into a training video:

"Independent Filmmaking and the 7D"

While I'm not a news journalist or documentarian, I do have a background in visual effects and video production—which should make this very interesting (green screening, motion tracking, basic and creative lighting, etc). I'm covering all of the "tech stuff" for some of the photographers coming into video but aiming to present it all visually so you really understand what looks like what and which rules to keep in mind.

What would you guys like to see covered?

Here are a few topics:
Bare necessities for 7D filmmaking (not the endorsement list!)
7D for Run N Gun
Lighting your scene for the 7D
Shooting for post color correction (grading)
Shooting for green screening
Getting that shaky cam without the jello
7D vs EX1 comparison

I didn't want to just explain camera settings, but rather show you how I shoot, edit, grade and deliver. Any thoughts?


I'll buy it, I bought Philip Blooms which was pricey but extremely helpful.

I did however, find heaps of stuff missing, like the basics.
Setting exposure, white balancing, the LCD's auto function - my first tests were recorded much darker than what it appeared on the LCD screen and so on.

I like your idea of showing how you shoot, edit, grade and deliver, but that was what I found to be lacking.

In short, a guide for video people who are discovering the DSLR's - what's different?
Your typical HDV camera is set up with Iris, Shutter Speed, Gain, White balance and with a responsive LCD screen, it was real easy to set correct exposure.

I realize their is a whole new world of controls and creativity once I can gain control of these functions on the 7d, but just a very simple basic overview would still help me tremendously.

Maybe you can incorporate it in your 'how you shoot' chapter.

Anyways, that was my 2 cents, sorry if it is overkill basic, but I wrote this hoping it will help us both!

Hey guys, sorry I missed replying. I hadn't seen this thread pop up in a while!

@Jordan
You are referring to the "lens cap test" which doesn't show related noise, but highlight clipping. There was a test months ago where people looked at the results and said "hey, there is hardly any noise in these shots! These are the ISO settings to use all the time! Well, the 160 sets are actually cutting off a section of the highlights, which is why the seem cleaner. This is a larger topic and demonstration I am working on to make sense of it. Right now, only a few people have tried to explain it and it's way too technical to appreciate or make sense of for the majority of users.

@Keith
I hope this hasn't become the "David Chapman" thread at all! Haha.
I do have some tips on when to use what that I'm working to show. The thing is, more often than not, I use the 200, 400, 800 rule to keep highlights. There are situations where the 160 set will work better, but I'm showing what those shots look like. After seeing examples, this "when do I use which and why" won't be as much of an issue. The 100, 200, 400, 800 works for newer DSLR people coming in since there are far too many variables to take in. But, yes, I will be getting to that in a chapter. You did explain this well with the -3db gain, but most people still don't understand that scenario either.

@Chris
It looks like I am showing everything you missed. I'm not trying to make a duplicate of what Philip Bloom has produced at all. I'm going a different direction and showing more of the "how do I use this to make my own independent film productions?" angle. There are some things to cover related to video in general as well as post workflows. Since my background is image acquisition, post and visual effects, this will cover a lot of the technical aspects of dealing with the footage, on set decisions and some cool things to do in post. Some of the technical will help with live events (and I intend on adding some of my tricks from over 100+ weddings), but a lot of the shots I've setup are pre-planned (actors in a scene, filming a specific sequence of shots, etc). I do have some wedding tips, but I won't be on location at a wedding pointing out what to do.

Hey David, this is going to sound extremely amateur-ish (as I am to the world of SLR), but where is the option to turn off highlight tone priority? I looked through the menu and can't seem to find it. Your posts have been very helpful, thanks!!

From what I recall you might need to be in 'still mode' (video/still switch rotated to still) before you see these options. I know it's fooled a few people.

Go to the custom function area in the menu (orange) and it's section 2 option 3.

Awesome, thanks Keith and David, I'll have to check that when I get home

I see many people referring to Philip Bloom's settings but still am wondering what they are. Can anyone divulge this?

Sharpness and contrast all the way down
Saturation -2
Highlight Tone Priority On

I think this setting are not from Mr.Bloom.

Is it first advice for our dear friend Mr. Stu from Prolost?