So, the big RED October 30th announcement is being made, and it's not looking all that good for the Scarlet (3K for $3k, soccer mom, everything you need except the memory card) crowd. Prices (and features) are going up, it's more modular (which generally adds cost), and details won't be released until the end of next month.

One bright spot is that the Canon electronic lens mount (at least for EPIC/TATTOO) is real.

This leads me to this conclusion: buy a Canon, rent a Scarlet.

By purchasing a 7D/5D/1D and some lenses and other kit, we can make great stuff and hone our skills. But we're stuck with this pesky rolling shutter and aliasing. Oh well. It's good enough for the web and for many clients and applications.

But the day you want to produce that special project, rent a Scarlet/EPIC and use the kit and lenses (and rental lenses) that you have experience with. The resolution will rock. The aliasing will be gone. There will be little skew. You can shoot super slow-mo. You can grade it to death. You just won't own it, if you're in the original Scarlet target market.

The DvSLR is the Scarlet of 2009.

And who knows what we will see introduced at NAB in April? I'll be really surprised if we don't see DvSLR sensors in video bodies.

Anyway, that's how I see things unfolding. Own the DvSLR. Plan to rent a Scarlet as needed. Wait and see how the pro video market integrates DvSLR technology...

Well put, I'd just add that Canon may be able to keep RED on the run. Given a year (or two, because "all things in life change"), will aliasing be put to rest? Will we have raw video? I'm clutching my 5D's tightly now...

I have been making films with my "shooting partner" Chris Barcellos who has a 5D, for some time. We use mainly the 5D and ocasionally my Z-1 and he keeps asking when I am gettting a 7D or a DSLR.

I keep saying that I think we are on the cusp of some very rapid advances in this market. The biggest things I think that will hold it back is memory technology and transfer rates, and the actual market share to be protected by each manufacturer.

As to the latter, would Canon, for instance, make a major improvement in the DSLR and eliminate a big part of its Videocamera market in one swoop? I doubt it.

Yet, the cracks in the citadel are evident.

Will we have a full 35mm or AVS sensor camera with actual 1080 line resolution and 4:2:2 colorspace capability at $5K or under price anytime soon? I dunno... but for now prefer to sit on the sidelines and watch this exciting story develop.

Like Jon intimates... invest in good glass you can use on a go forward basis. Everything else is changing fast.

Chris Swanberg

ps. I know the 5D actual resolution is NOT fantastic on a resolution chart, but speaking for my eyes, it produces some prety damned incredible images not hitherto createable by amateur/semi-Pro and Indie filmakers using equipment available to them - and then there are the LOW light capabilities (carried even further to a place unimaginable until now by the newest Canon Pro DSLR 1D)

I don't know why anyone is even remotely surprised by this RED announcement. I've been calling the Scarlet a $10k camera since it was announced. You just can't do it for what the initial announcement said. Unless you use it as a loss leader.

Honestly, there are a LOT of folks that would pay $10k for a 2/3 scarlet. And I think that is EXACTLY the right market for it. Target it right at the EX3, HPX300, and similar cams. The upper end amateur/low end pro guys who'd actually be able to use it, can handle the 3k post and grading, can buy the lenses, and who might want to move up in the product line on purchase or rental. The sub-$5k market is not where RED should be playing. Leave that to Canon/Nikon, and maybe Sony if they want to play there.

I would have GLADLY paid another 4k for the Scarlet over the EX1 had it been available. I've got another 3 years to wait now though. Unless I get a monster job in the mean time.

Will we have a full 35mm or AVS sensor camera with actual 1080 line resolution and 4:2:2 colorspace capability at $5K or under price anytime soon? I dunno... but for now prefer to sit on the sidelines and watch this exciting story develop.



whew... I was worried about you getting one. As I look around my edit room here I see about four of the lenses you leant me lying around. I was beginning to worry I would have to make some other arrangements.

IMO (and perhaps only IMO) we owe RED a great debt of gratitude for thinking big and giving the shooting public what they deserve. This industry has been stuck in a rut for 30 years, and only moved on from 480i because of government mandate. Were it not for Jim Jannard and the RED team, we would still be marveling at how great it was to get HDV at 1080i for $10k. Sony's "innovation" is to re-brand beta every few years and charge $50k for the privilege.

I have shot with RED, and I have to agree with you, it is not the sunshiny smiles that the fanboys claim it to be. I expect Scarlet to be (a) more expensive than we like, (b) later than we like, and (c) less user friendly. But for a company that a mere three NAB's ago was made up of a guy who owned a sunglass company and a dream, I am damn impressed with how far they've come.

And without them, I honestly believe there would be no 5D, no EX-3, no 60p HD anything, and no looking forward to 3k, 4k, or really anything outside of 1440x1080. They scared the shit out of the industry, and we owe them our thanks.

it's not just your opinion Mike - I think you're right. we do owe Jim a lot, he has poked the big boys in the eye and made them take notice - it's an exciting time

Pricing, specs and schedule for Scarlet are released on November 30th. They've upped the specs of Scarlet because of the success of 5D/7D. This is a good thing for everybody. More choice and competition results in better tools that are affordable for everyone. Why complain??

RED do need to offer something that the DSLRs can't or if they do Canon etc risk annoying their main market for these products - stills photographers by increasing the cost of purchasing a camera. If the market is mostly happy with the current HD video codec why increase costs by adding RAW for motion? After all, most stills photographers don't use RAW.

IMO (and perhaps only IMO) we owe RED a great debt of gratitude for thinking big and giving the shooting public what they deserve. This industry has been stuck in a rut for 30 years, and only moved on from 480i because of government mandate. Were it not for Jim Jannard and the RED team, we would still be marveling at how great it was to get HDV at 1080i for $10k. Sony's "innovation" is to re-brand beta every few years and charge $50k for the privilege.

I have shot with RED, and I have to agree with you, it is not the sunshiny smiles that the fanboys claim it to be. I expect Scarlet to be (a) more expensive than we like, (b) later than we like, and (c) less user friendly. But for a company that a mere three NAB's ago was made up of a guy who owned a sunglass company and a dream, I am damn impressed with how far they've come.

And without them, I honestly believe there would be no 5D, no EX-3, no 60p HD anything, and no looking forward to 3k, 4k, or really anything outside of 1440x1080. They scared the shit out of the industry, and we owe them our thanks.

Absolutely. Thanks to RED and Jim Jannard, camera technology has jumped what 10, 15 years? My hat is off to him and the entire RED team.

I may never buy a RED or Scarlet but I agree that cameras like the 5D and 1D MKIV wouldn't exist without RED stirring up the pot.

I may never buy a RED or Scarlet but I agree that cameras like the 5D and 1D MKIV wouldn't exist without RED stirring up the pot.

I kindly disagree. I think DSLR manufacturers added video because photojournalists asked for it, and because it was not difficult to start saving the liveview stream to a file. My opinion is that RED didn't affect it. I think RED's future products may affect the actions of DSLR manufacturers, though.

Seems to me that every still photographer I've spoken with despises the fact that the option even exists on their camera.

Which makes little to no sense. Why do they mind if there is a feature on their camera that they don't use?

Seems to me that every still photographer I've spoken with despises the fact that the option even exists on their camera.

People like to moan.... I know loads of photographers that like the video mode, they just don't rush online to say so.

As for still photographers not using RAW, what???? Maybe wedding photographers or something, but I don't know anyone who doesn't shoot RAW.

Anyway, fair play to RED.... they might have slightly upset their fanboy indies.... but they have really treated their old customers well... the upgrade path from RED one is truly revolutionary, in terms of spec and new levels of customer service/appreciation.

I think Brian was referring to RAW video. I don't think adding RAW would necessarily add much to the cost of the camera. Just to the cost of your new CF cards!

The only thing photog's in my industry hate about DvSLRs is that now videog's have superior lens collections.

High end photographers may use RAW, but for most people, which I would say is the mass market for stills cameras tend to just use JPEGS. One reason being you can get a lot more pictures on your card.

There's a lot of data to be processed with RAW for video, that's what you're paying for on the RED series.

I can't think of any photographers—professional commercial or wedding and event—that shoot JPG over RAW. They have tons of CF cards and at high capacity. Why not shoot raw? I did have a photographer buddy that shot JPG, until last year. Now he's all RAW. Every photography studio I know shoots RAW too! (even Walmart, I think).

Almost all of the photographers that have the 5DM2 just shoot stills—but want to start shooting video more. They don't know anything about frames rates. A very prominent photographer in Houston said, "So I tried to shoot some video, since I have Premiere, but I think this 5D shoots 28 or 34 frames a second and it's supposed to be 26 or 29 or something..."

Photographers that don't understand frame rates don't shoot video. That's the reason. Check out still-motion.ca cause they have 5D's and are shooting a ton of video!

I didn't mention professionals, although I do know do one wedding photographer who does shoot high quality JPEGs. As you mention, the reason for professionals not shooting RAW has largely gone.

Canon and the other camera manufacturers seem to caught onto the replacement for the 35mm adapter market having brought out a product initially intended for photojournalists. RED seem to have noticed them introducing these cameras and have responded with what would appear to come from the other direction: digital motion cameras that can also be used for stills. Although, from the price viewpoint this would appear to be more a Scarlet idea than a proposed use for the Epic, even if the RED One has been used on stills shoots.

As for still photographers not using RAW, what???? Maybe wedding photographers or something, but I don't know anyone who doesn't shoot RAW.



are you kidding?! We shoot RAW especially for weddings. Memory technology is cheap as dirt and we like to take our CF cards for a wild ride! Its like having a box of cookies you know...

I use RAW even if I am shooting leaves or ants on my backyard. :)

So what will come first, the Canon 5D Mark III or a hybrid that borrows more from HD cams like the XH and XL series? Or is Sony or Nikon going to drop the next bomb?

In my experience shooting a 5D Mark II side-by-side with my Mark III bodies over the last year, I would say that a HUGE piece of the joy of my 5DM2 for video is hanging my Canon glass off of it. Being able to go from the 70-200/2.8L IS to the 85/1.2 to the 35/1.4 to the 15/fish to the 24TS is simply divine. I still shoot some video with my Canon XL2 with the brilliant 16X manual lens (a great combo), but the image quality that I get from my 5D is an order of magnitude better.

Does it have a way to go? Of course. Someday we'll look back at it as we do now at the Instamatic, Polaroid and Super8 cameras of our youth. But it's a really important step forward.

And if Mr. Jannard's team can help to push all this forward, all power to them. I hope they're having fun at what they're doing, and I wish them well!

So what will come first, the Canon 5D Mark III or a hybrid that borrows more from HD cams like the XH and XL series? Or is Sony or Nikon going to drop the next bomb?

We have to remember that the potential market for this new-ish category of camera is fairly narrow, and the R&D costs of developing new systems is quite high. I would expect we'll continue to see "hybrid" designs because they're cheaper to develop.

So what will come first, the Canon 5D Mark III or a hybrid that borrows more from HD cams like the XH and XL series? Or is Sony or Nikon going to drop the next bomb?
Canon will release an HD video camera at NAB (or surrounding NAB) with similar (but somehow crippled) DOF, but all the other issues (limited clip length, lack of audio inputs, frustrating user interface) fixed. Unfortunately it'll be in the $10k range, so there will still be a significant userbase for the 5D.

Keep in mind that I am talking strictly out of my ass - but this is where my money is.

You forget that Canon makes glass for 2/3" cameras. They earn a lot of money in that market. They will upset all their customers (Sony, JVC, Panasonic) for which they make and sell lenses. They would also have a internal fight to fight. The canon DSLR and video teams are two separate teams that are competing. If they release a Canon 5D Mark III that competes with the most expensive videocameras, they upset so many people internally and externally. I hope the video team licenses the sensor and lensmount from the photography unit and builds a XL-H1 like body around it with proper video buttons, knobs, dials and audio inputs.

Big thanks to Jim and his team. Although I also kinda lost my faith in the Scarlet. It doesn't live up to the original promise and I don't think it will be out untill 2011.

Also don't count out Sony in this market. They bought Konica Minolta and have a good codec in house. I am eager to find out what they are up to in the DVSLR market.

All that's surfaced from Sony are vague quotes from executives who appear to be mostly clueless as far as adding a DSLR-V to the Alpha line... Not holding my breath.

I am certain Sony CAN do it, when they will is probably not "too" far in the future, but not this model year, so conservatively it's another year at the least before they join the market mix. I think they've announced all that will be seen this year.

Sony released the compact superzoom DSC-HX1, and it's not a bad little camera - but they are apparently waiting to either work out the bugs or "see what develops" before they add the video feature to the Alpha line. Since good glass is fairly cheap and available for the Sony mount, and I've got a nice selection already, I'm just taking a wait and see approach. Sure would be nice to have the in-body IS and video though... sigh.

You forget that Canon makes glass for 2/3" cameras. They earn a lot of money in that market. They will upset all their customers (Sony, JVC, Panasonic) for which they make and sell lenses. They would also have a internal fight to fight. The canon DSLR and video teams are two separate teams that are competing. If they release a Canon 5D Mark III that competes with the most expensive videocameras, they upset so many people internally and externally.

I would say that JVC, Panasonic, and Sony all have cameras in the -7K range that are tapeless, where Canon has yet to take its own XL line. They are still on mini dv! This is a range that does not upset the broadcast line at all, since I can't think of a studio that "really" uses the XL-H1 or the EX3 studio edition. Canon HAS to bring its cameras into the card media realm where everyone else is. The question would have to be what lens group to use? The 2/3" lenses or the EF line. Does Canon support mostly low to mid-range videographers that are independent or event related? Would they have EF lenses already with other photo gear?

Whether this new "dream" camera came out with a 2/3" sensor/mount or not, that wouldn't upset the Canon broadcast lens adaption for other companies IMO. JVC and Sony don't make lenses, hence the Canon or Fujinon.

Codec? Well it wouldn't be Redcode, but that doesn't mean it has to be H.264 either. JVC is writing MOV files and can support the EX format too. Who knows. I'm sure not spending 10K at this point for a Scarlet fixed lens. Definitely a rental if needed. I would be happy with the 1DM4 for half the price—although still plenty happy with my 7D. :-)

I kindly disagree. I think DSLR manufacturers added video because photojournalists asked for it, and because it was not difficult to start saving the liveview stream to a file. My opinion is that RED didn't affect it. I think RED's future products may affect the actions of DSLR manufacturers, though.

I concur, I interviewed Chuck Westfall for an article for a magazine I write for and this is exactly what he and Canon told me. I don't think that RED or the Scarlet were anywhere on their radar.

I will give RED props that they did shake up the status quo but I think also that Canon and Nikon should share in that honor as well, even if they didn't plan to shake things up as much as they have. The D90 and the 5D MKII are much more revolutionary products than vaporware like the Scarlet. Until they start deliveries, Scarlet is nothing but talk and 3D renders.

Dan

I stand corrected. I see both of your points.

With the rush of technological growth, it's easy to misinterpret the whys and wherefores of product releases.

At any rate, I'm excited and grateful to both companies for their cameras. Only four years ago I was shooting my first feature on a DVX100 and excited that it was 480p at 24p.

Crazy.

Scarlet is nothing but talk and 3D renders.


You are aware that there is Scarlet video on the web already right? And that a functioning prototype has already made it's debut. No doubt it's changing somewhat, but the video from that camera was STUNNING. Even at $10k it was stunning.

Back to my original post, that's why I think the 7D/5D/1D is a great purchase and that Scarlet S35/FF35 will be a great rental. If the promise holds, RED will offer the sweet DOF of our DvSLRs along with outstanding dynamic range, no aliasing, little skew, and the ability to grade to the extreme in post.

Yep, RED's images from its second-gen cams are stunning. But they won't have anything in the $3k range like they promised in April 2008.

Oh well. A 2/3" sensor for $3k was exciting back then. It's not as exciting (for many of us) now. DvSLRs changed the game.

I predict that we'll see DvSLR technology in video cameras shortly - with the aliasing, skew, and 8-bit codecs that we've learned to accept. That's one race. The other one is to give us a big sensor cam without DvSLR shortcomings (aliasing, skew, 8-bits) for under $10k.

Who will win these two races? It's anybody's guess.

You are aware that there is Scarlet video on the web already right? And that a functioning prototype has already made it's debut. No doubt it's changing somewhat, but the video from that camera was STUNNING. Even at $10k it was stunning.

Yes, I saw it the day it came out.

Can I buy one? Can I even get a review copy for HD Video Pro? Price? Exact specs? Delivery dates? Didn't think so. Prototype clips with no specs or supporting evidence of what it was even shot on or how don't impress me much. Are we talking about the lizard clip? I've shot with the RED One and it is a total PITA for my work flow and typical projects.

I am sure that Scarlet will be fine but I am not very excited about it. It will be interesting to see if the camera is successful.

Dan

Agreed, Dan. It's tricky to be able to commit to a camera (or any technology, really) when one doesn't know what the full ramifications of the workflow will be. When one's reputation and livelihood is on the line, i.e. being able to deliver to clients, it's foolhardy to gamble on unknown quantities. It used to be that being an early adopter meant getting involved with tech when it first became available; now that means raising a rally flag as soon as it is announced.

Many cameras are capable of stunning imagery (including ones considered all but obsolete by those obsessed by the bleeding edge). If the process of acquiring and working with those images is too cumbersome, it may not be worth it for those who consider their time to be equivalent to money. I've slowly come around to the Canon DSLR's but am well aware of the challenges presented in both acquisition and post phases that these cameras represent. I've used RED for a number of projects but have also had issues on the post side.

I've seen the lizard shot. It's nice. But what version of Scarlet was it? Maybe it was the version that existed for one day, a version that was a Red ONE clone.

Personally I don't think Red a has any interest in the prosumer market. They made a killing with R1, all the talk is of Epic. Follow the money. The Scarlet is an afterthought.

Given that RED have always said they make professional cameras, the most that can be said is that they're going for the higher end of the prosumer market with the 2/3" range. That also should also meet the requirements of the broadcast market (with increasingly tighter budgets) for other than fast turn around productions - all that rendering could cause problems with tight post production schedules.

To date there have been around 7000 RED One cameras sold, so we're not talking a mass market product. They could be hoping for cross over into the stills market with the 35mm sensor Scarlet, but price wise it's going to be more for the high end photographers who need a fast motor drive.

I expect the way it'll work out is that the stills camera manufacturers will met the demand for 35mm sensors for those shooting for the web and DVD, whilst RED will be working in the band above that, offering good value products for professionals working in other areas and hobbyists with deep pockets. It could be an aspirational product, but there's nothing new in that, but there nothing to stop someone in the future buying a used RED when the depreciation has done its bit. You don't need the latest model of camera to make your own film and the picture quality from a RED will be good for many years.

Regarding where Red fits into the historical timeline, note that HDV 1080i at a price under $5k predates Red One by almost 3 years, followed by the Panasonic HVX200, which got Sony to develop the EX1. Red's influence may have helped inspire the DSLR video trend, but has yet to affect the mainstream video camera market.

RED have had an influence on the higher end cameras, although they haven't replaced the higher end cameras the way people were talking about; the post workflow with RAW isn't right for everyone. The lower end new Arri digital cameras appears to be priced to compete with the upcoming Epic.

At the lower end, 2/3" Scarlet should be in the EX3 market area. However, it mightn't be right for everyone and the RED ergonomics have been a weakness to date, but they seem to have been working at that.

The video SDLRs seem to be a bigger problem for the 35mm adapter market than the more traditional video cameras.

Can I buy one? Can I even get a review copy for HD Video Pro? Price? Exact specs? Delivery dates? Didn't think so. Prototype clips with no specs or supporting evidence of what it was even shot on or how don't impress me much. Are we talking about the lizard clip? I've shot with the RED One and it is a total PITA for my work flow and typical projects.

I am sure that Scarlet will be fine but I am not very excited about it. It will be interesting to see if the camera is successful.

Completely understand...

I see the RED workflow much like film. And the small amount of footage I've played with, I've worked with much as I suspect I would with film. Hasn't been easy on the PC side.

I'm no RED fan boy, and I've never, ever, thought Scarlet would come in anywhere near $3k. My guess was EX1-EX3 range and it appears that might be closer to the truth.

Not everyone can commit to a flim-like workflow, and for those people, the RED products seem to be all wrong. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, as people need to use what is appropriate to them. I absolutely LOVE my EX1 workflow as I can run live with it and have, I can do fast turnaround with native codec editing, I can take my time and grade footage, etc. Clearly, I can't do that with 3k or 4k, flat footage.

What I don't understand is why people are angry with RED. They are a tiny company trying to make some cool cameras. What should that bring about so much anger in folks?

I seem to remember some chatter that 1080p recording will be available. If so, that should help the workflow for people who don't want to grade xK RAW.

And I think the people who are the most bummed about RED are those who bought into the 3K for $3k budget dream, have been defending the RED concept against DvSLRs, and are now realizing that their dream - based on RED marketing announcements - will not come true. Many of us saw things slip away with the modular announcement. Modular never makes things cheaper - and the modules will be priced for EPIC users.

Also, the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT ON OCTOBER 30TH (except for you lot in the peanut gallery) snubbed the $3k scarletuser.net followers.

You never know. At the end of the month, RED might have an amazing announcement for the $3k crowd. We will see...

The generalization that "people are angry at RED" is inaccurate. One look at their forum reveals about 225 posts in four threads expressing discontentment with RED's Oct. 30th announcement, and a majority of those gripes are coming from folks who are upset that they didn't buy in early enough to get the same deal being offered to long-time RED One owners:

The Oct 29th cut-off - REDUSER.net (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37061)
Rants - REDUSER.net (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37024)
More Rants - REDUSER.net (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37100)
Rant2 - REDUSER.net (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37126)

...but these people are massively outweighed almost 4 to 1 by responses from those who approve and support that announcement:

October 30th Announcement Feedback - REDUSER.net (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37010)

And regarding Scarlet, from the day it was first announced, it was *never* intended for any market other than high-end professionals... I think there has been some deep-rooted confusion over the misconception that RED was moving beyond high-end digital cinema with Scarlet, and that's been part of the problem for awhile. See this:

REDUSER.net - View Single Post - Rants (http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=502375&postcount=30)

I really don't want DV Info Net to be used as a platform to bash any camera company (that's clearly beyond the scope I have established for this site, which is to be a technical and creative resource for digital video -- and nothing more). Please take those feelings elsewhere, preferably to self-published blogs, etc., as that's not at all what this site is about. Thanks in advance,

I agree Chris. I have no desire to bash RED. I want them to succeed. And I hope to rent their stuff at some point in the not-so-distant future.

And, I'd agree that anger is not the sentiment. There is disillusionment though, with a number of people "bailing". Frankly, many should have "bailed" long ago, purchased something, and started shooting, rather than waiting around. Once a final product and a hard ship date and price are announced, that will be another story.

Which brings me back to my premise: the $3k crowd should look at a DvSLR for everyday use, building up equipment, lenses, and skills. And Scarlet has the potential to be a great rental for that special project. With no aliasing, jello, and the ability to grade RAW, it still holds lots of promise.

No prob Chris, I will keep my feelings about RED's marketing/PR strategy to myself. I am not against the company at all, I interviewed Ted for a story recently and I like that they have really shaken up the industry. I am glad that there is a RED company out there, I think that they are a very healthy force in the market, even if I don't always agree with their strategy.

I wish them well, and hopefully I will own one of their cameras someday.

Dan

Many thanks, Dan -- marketing strategy is one thing, an actual product is another... I have long endeavored to keep the focus around here firmly upon the products themselves. Much appreciated,

What a difference a few days makes.

There's a photo of the fixed lens over a scarletuser, and those who really want a high quality 2/3" RAW cam are again very optimistic. They accept that it will no longer be $3k and are hopeful for a quick shipping schedule. The whole mood has shifted.

BTW, the lens will support electronic control. I assume that this means a motorized zoom. I'm not sure about OIS or the balance between mechanical and electronic focus.

Of course, the real news won't come until the end of the month, when RED makes some more official announcements.

Best wishes to the RED development teams.

FWIW, the latest Scarlet announcement is now up.

No big surprises, really (concerning Scarlet anyway; RedRay Pro is to be released surprisingly soon.) Nothing here changes my view on owning the 5D and renting a Scarlet S35 or FF35 for big, well-scheduled projects.

Owning a Fixed 2/3 would be excellent for a lot of unscripted, unplanned documentary work. For narrative, I like the options that a bigger sensor offers; hence, my 5D2 is a keeper.

I like RED, i like the "small company, big ideas" attitude. Unfortunately, the hardware/workflow is out of my budget at this time in my/my company's life.

I like Canon for simply doing what it has done.

BUT
I'd like them to stop selling me still cameras though. Sorry i don't shoot stills! I shoot video!

How much for the 7D without all the stills bells and whistles??