PROAIM Pan Tilt Head Joystick for XL2 XH-A1 Jib Crane - eBay (item 140349727346 end time Oct-09-09 03:26:57 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROAIM-Pan-Tilt-Head-Joystick-for-XL2-XH-A1-Jib-Crane_W0QQitemZ140349727346QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Video_Cameras?hash=item20ad7ee272&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)


so it looks like a varizoom nock off. (wich would be awsome if it was of similar performance)

this with a jony jib 2 18 foot ( $2,885) or a jimmy jib lite cable drive ( $2,875) plus tripod and zoom controls. would make a realy killer settup, that might compete with the like of jimmy jib. That is if the head performs properly.

any thoughts?

Andrew, by any chance did you take the plunge and get the tilt head? If so can you give a review?

I would also like to know how that works... I have been building a DIY version of this head... hard to get right.

Anyone tested the quality of these New Dehli made cranes?
The CineCity*::*Jib/camera crane (http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/home.php?cat=282)

I thought the junior panhead option looks very attractive. Anyone tried it already?

The weak link seems to be the tripod and the jib's connection to it. Has anyone bought one of their jibs? If so, how's the arcing (panning?) action ?

Can these jibs be fitted to a regular 100mm/75mm tripod?

I noticed when I read the fine print that despite it saying the joystick control was proportional it looks like the speed is controlled by one of the knobs on the remote which would mean it is not proportional.

I just purchased the jr head. Total came out to 540 bucks (includes shipping). It should be here in about 3 to 5 days. Once I get it, ill take some photos and video showing its performance.

Hopefully this wont be a waste of money..

Thanks for taking the risk Kevin ! I'm looking forward to your test.
I hope you won't be despointed.

No problem, I have been looking at these for a while now, been really curious of them, so I took the plunge to test it out.

Ok guys just a quick update. I ordered the head 2.23.10, it was just shipped yesterday from india. I just got my FedEx tracking number with an estimated delivery date of March 2nd. So far so good.

Once I get the product Ill start a new review thread and the review will be in two parts. The first will be all about the product. Its design, construction, durability etc... All with high rez photos. maybe video lol

The 2nd part will be the item in operation to check its quality. Im looking for things such as smooth pan and tilting, speed control etc...This will have actual video of the unit and showing it in action, third person and first person views.

Kevin,

thanks for taking the plunge first!!!


Can't wait to hear how practical it all works out!!!


Dale Guthormsen

awesome....!!

I just purchased the jr head. Total came out to 540 bucks (includes shipping). It should be here in about 3 to 5 days. Once I get it, ill take some photos and video showing its performance.

Hi Kevin, did you received your motorized head from India yet?
Thanks!

hey there, yes I just got it today. There was a slight delay in shipping due to a national holiday in india. So customs was a little behind. I just finished taking the pictures and Ill be uploading the first portion of the review today.

Just a quick overall review of this head.

Ordering & Shipping

Ok, this is the first portion of my review for the Cinecity Proaim Motorized Pan & Tilt Head Jr. I picked up this head on eBay from Cine City direct for about $465.00 and about $65.00 shipping. I ordered the item and in about 2 days was shipped and a tracking number sent. Shipping was actually very fast, especially coming from India, so this was quite unexpected.

Once the package arrived, I was surprised about how well it was packed. Figuring since it went through customs twice, I was waiting for a box that was all beat up, but it was quite the opposite.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/1.jpg


Packaging

Once I opened up the box, the internal case was visible, which fit inside the box nice and snug.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/2.jpg

In order to get the case out, I had to cut one of the corners of the box, then it slid out nicely. The carry case appears to be very sturdy and a solid material. It has a shoulder strap and smaller handles to carry it around.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/3.jpg

Once open, the first thing you see is the installation and operational guide.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/4.jpg

This manual has everything you need in order to set this rig up. Everything from component descriptions to detailed set up instructions.

The inner case is made of cut foam. Each section is cut perfectly to house each of the rigs components.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/5.jpg

Here are all the main parts for the head.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/6.jpg

So overall, the ordering, shipping and the packaging were very well put together. I had asked the shipper many questions, which were all answered within a few hours each time. So communication was executed well. Packaging was also well put together and sustained virtually no damage to the exterior nor the interior of the box.

PARTS

After inspecting each part of this rig, I am impressed with the design and build quality. I was expecting cheap build due to the price of this rig, but I was wrong. The rig is VERY solid, including the joystick controller.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/7.jpg

The head itself is very solid and appears to be well designed. The head was also wrapped up in plastic which helped protect the finish.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/8.jpg

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/9.jpg

Looking up close, the gears on the head appear to be of sturdy and solid quality. The frame of the head is welded very well. However, aesthetically, there was no attempt to smooth out the weld. But who's looking right?

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/10.jpg

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/12.jpg

So overall, the head frame and gears appear to be very solid. The frame is made of a high grade metal, so there is no worry about it bending or breaking. The XLR cables are built in to the motor and blends well with the rest of the frame.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/11.jpg

The universal adapter is a nice touch. This device has an output for europe, japan and USA. So its a great addition for users all over. This device is actually quite solid.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/13.jpg

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/14.jpg

Hooking everything up was actually quite easy. All the connectors fit perfectly to the components with ease.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/16.jpg

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/17.jpg

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/18.jpg

All the parts back in the carry case.

http://www.skyplexpictures.com/proaim/19.jpg

OVERALL

Simply put, this rig so far is a solid build quality product. It was shipped quickly, packed well and easy to setup. So far this rig is panning out to a positive. The unit itself weighs approximately 6lbs (pounds)

Shipping & Packaging - 5 of 5
Build Quality - 5 of 5

At this point, I need to install a small modification to my jib to allow this unit to operate due to its weight. Once I do this, Ill start taking video of this rig in action. Should be a few days.

Thanks Kevin. I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

Thank you Kevin for this first detailed report. It sounds promissing!

The production package is on eBay for US$729. Seems like a fair price.

PROAIM 12ft JIB & Jr.Pan tilt head Production Package - eBay (item 170428753233 end time Apr-05-10 23:33:31 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROAIM-12ft-JIB-Jr-Pan-tilt-head-Production-Package_W0QQitemZ170428753233QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ae586551)

Or this link if the above is too long:

TinyURL.com - shorten that long URL into a tiny URL (http://tinyurl.com/y9hyc5m)

May have to leap on this one.

Thanks for the report Kelvin. Looking forward to some demo video of the unit in action.

no problem. I should be getting some demo footage this weekend. Had a little delay due to getting over nasty cold.

Hi kevin

Thanks for the review! I've been looking at these for ages, and can't decide to get it or not.

Can you try and capture the audio of the noise the head makes? If its going to ruin sound for dialogue then its a no no!!

Proaim have useless 'demo' videos on the site, that don't really show us anything.

I'm thinking about getting the 12ft proaim jib as well. Does anyone have any experience with that? I know kesslers etc... but for the money, is it half decent?

I'm only thinking proaim if I go with the pan and tilt jr head. If I go manual tilt, I would probably go Cobracrane 1, or Hague HDV K8.

Any other good jibs in the $600 region?

no problem, Ill try and capture the motor sounds also. Just practicing with the head then ill post the videos.

Hey Kevin,

I loved your review of its shipping and build quality on March 8. What do you think so far about how it actually works? How about a quick 0-5 rating?

This thing is tempting...

Thanks!

How noisy is it? How is the smoothness of the movement?

Thanks,
Bill

This thing is tempting...



very much!
so how is it on the 1 to 5 scale?
many thanks for the review!

Looking for more information about the Jr. head, I found one review that was positive but the reviewer said he had to some some tweaks to make it work for him. Not having the experience to be a electro/metallic tweaker myself, I emailed CineCity and got a prompt reply:

- - - - - - -

We have sold hundreds of this product and do not receive any serious complaint from our valuable customers from worldwide. I think the joystick box is not being operated properly by this customer so he might have faced the problem of drifting. Also the design of the joystick handle, joystick etc... is standard inudstrial design. All Motorized head manufacturers have the same joystick box design. All have almost same plate with four knobs to secure the pan tilt head on tripod or jib. All User fabricate it as per their own requirement to be used on their jib or tripod..

Here is the link which also states positive points of our Jr.Pan Tilt Head : http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jibs-cranes-booms/465174-cine-city-porarm-pan-tilt-head-2.html

We back our sales for six months. Our products are fully insured. If you would face any manufacturing or functionality problem, I will provide you replacement or refund for that specific part as per your convenience.

The quality of this product is very good. Buy with confidence.

For any further queries, feel free to contact me.

- - - - - - -


I emailed back to ask if they knew if I would have to make modifications to my particular rig, a Kessler 8/12' crane, and they replied promptly (again) and asked me to send me pictures of my rig so they could check them out and let me know.

So I can't comment on the Jr. head itself, but their responsiveness to customers is great.

as far as my rating, I would say at this point, its a 4 1/2 out of 5. The unit is actually pretty quiet, very little noise while in operation. The movement is also very very smooth. To mount this on the jib I have, I had to manually drill additional holes to line up the areas to connect. I also had to add extra washers on one side since the unit had a little bit of a lean to the left.

Other than this, for the price, this unit works extremely well.

Please note, it takes a while to get use to it. Moving the crane and operating the head at the same time takes a bit of coordination. But well worth the practice for an end result.

Looking up close, the gears on the head appear to be of sturdy and solid quality. The frame of the head is welded very well. However, aesthetically, there was no attempt to smooth out the weld. But who's looking right?

Actually that's the way I'd want to see it. and that's looks like a better than average welder. Awesome!

Kevin, does the speed of the motor ramp from full speed down to stop smoothly? Does it jerk at all when stopping or does it settle in smoothly?

so far from what ive seen while using the item, it has a bit of an easy ease, not a sudden stop, so its pretty smooth.

Sounds good!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any reverse switches for the pan/tilt motors. This is important, if you're going from overslung to underslung mode. If there are no switches, you'll be panning and tilting opposite of where you want to go.

I suppose one could simply turn the control box around, but switches would be nice,

you are correct, there is no switch, I just simply turn the box and it works fine for me.

Hi all - just found this site and thought I'd contribute to your discussion on the ProAim Head.

I've copied the page from my site so I'm not sure yet if the html will work here - but the images and full review can be found at http://www.playpauseclick.com/blog - EDIT - Seems I cant embed the images here?

Alot of people have messaged me recently (particularly from eBay) regarding the ProAim pan and tilt head and asking for an honest view of it. The head I'm referring to in this article is this one"http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=141&cat=0&page=1">
I have to say that in terms of value for money it's pretty good. If compared against something as sophisticated as a Varizoom model it probably won't even come close in terms of quality of functionality. BUT - you have to take into account that it's probably only about one sixth the price.

When mine arrived, I was keen to open it up, have a look and see exactly what my five hundred quid had bought me.

The whole unit is well packaged in its own custom foam cut case, which is quite sufficient for its needs. One thing you do have to be wary of when packing though is that you dont move the head around my hand. The instructions state that damage can occur to the motors if you do. So make sure that before you power down the head, ensure it's in the correct position for packing.

The whole unit is powered by a 24v laptop power supply which terminates in a four pin XLR plug. The manual states a lower power supply can be used, but the speed of the head will be affected if you do.

The main control unit has a clamp bracket on the 'front' end which I have to say is entirely the wrong place for it. I had to dismantle the box, drill two new holes and move it to the side, where it will clamp to my pan bar or jib and still be facing the correct way. Exiting the control box is a single XLR'd cable of decent length which splits neatly into two - one for the vertical motor, one to the horizontal motor. The cable is decent quality and plenty long enough for my Hague K12 jib.

The joystick control was another area where 'tweaking' was required. Once my Z1 was mounted on the head, it drifted off constantly. So - again, inside the box and by moving the pots left and vertical of the control I found the dead spot where no power was being sent to the motors. Irritating but not the end of the world.

Incidentally, mounting of the unit on my jib was a bit of a challenge too. The ProAim's mount is square. with four slots in which to my mind doesn't really match up to anything standard tripod or jib wise, so I had to fabricate another plate with four holes matching the ProAim's ones and mount on my Hague jib that way.

Once the minor irritants were dealt with I have to say I'm pretty happy. The movement is smooth (if somewhat noisy) and fine control of speed is possible - although I think some practice will be required. I can now get the shots I want and it hasn't cost me a fortune.

Overall - I would recommend the head as a good, budget alternative to the pricey stuff, but if you can afford the Varizoom (or better) you probably wont have to do the tweaking I had to do to get it how I wanted.

I will be taking some pictures shortly to illustrate my points - so keep nipping back and having a look!

EDIT - I've had a bill from FedEx for £14.20 which they say is from the taxman for unpaid import duty on the head. I've been in touch with DVAccessory (who sold the head to me) and the guy there called Simer has assured me I'll get this money refunded to me via Paypal. I've just this moment emailed him with a copy of the bill, so we'll see how long the refund takes to arrive.

Edit AGAIN - Pleased to say Simer has emailed me this morning (less than 24hrs from first contact) to let me know my refund is on its way - Top Service I'd say!

Andy.

IMAGES

IMAGE ONE - View inside the control box. I've arrowed the trim controllers on the underside of the joystick control. Careful adjustment of these was required on mine to stop the head 'slewing' away when it was meant to be at rest.
http://www.playpauseclick.co.uk/crane/trim.jpg

IMAGE TWO - Another view inside the control box. I found that the arrowed plug became easily detached fromn the PCB when working inside the box. Ensure if you need to access the innards that you check the plug is correctly reseated before assembling the box again.
http://www.playpauseclick.co.uk/crane/plug.jpg

May 2010 Update.

Right - I've had this unit for a while now - and my experiences haven't been QUITE as good as I would have hoped for...

First of all there is the issue of the gears. The large ones are made of aluminium - and pretty cheap grade ally in my opinion (and that of an engineer friend of mine too). What I've discovered - and I freely admit this is my fault to a degree but I believe it reflects a poor quality of design or build.. is that often times at the end of filming, it's easy to forget to reset the head to its parking point and the temptation is to move it by hand to get it to fit back into its case. The problem is that the gear skip teeth and it burrs the edges so easily - and once burred - the movement is totally knackered. I asked the price of new gears and got an answer of £40 per set. Helpfully - my engineer friend has taken the knackered ones and is having some made out of stainless steel. So - lesson one - DONT move the arms by hand - it will cost you!

Second on my list of gripes is the fact that I identified the 'speed control' wasn't really having any effect and every so often the head would rotate off on its own. Only switching off and on again seemed to 'reset' it. I took the control box to another mate of mine who designs high grade hi-fi and asked him to take a look. He found the speed control (a 1k pot) had been wired poorly and was burnt out. Further - he took a close look at the circuit board and found splatters of solder all over it. He said the random movement was probably due to stray voltage striking out and screwing with the IC. So - and in fairness to the suppliers, I asked for and recieved a replacemet circuit board fairly quickly and free of charge.

Next - position of the head. I've once or twice wanted to use it 'overhead' rather than underslung off my jib. The main problem then is that the joystick controls have no 'reverse switch'. So the joystick has to be mounted upside down. Not ideal.

Overall at this stage my assesment is that the ProAim head is ALMOST good. Just not brilliant. And extreme care has to be exercised in its use.

Thanks for the info Andy..

I was wondering, do you know how much the head weighs on its own ? I couldnt see this info on the cinecity website.. Id like to know what the total weight will be if i get one because im planning to use it with a custom made bracket.

All up i think it seems fairly good value.. If you ensure you use the motor to bring it back to packing position and dont mind turning the joystick upside then it doesnt seem too bad. I guess you can expect a few things given its so much cheaper than other brands... Has your opinion changed on the smoothness of the motion ? That would be my biggest concern, i couldnt handle jerkiness.

Also i had a thought, would it be possible to create an XLR lead with the positive and negative reversed to reverse the joystick controls ? something tells me that wouldnt be that hard to customise ?

Randy - I will weigh it tonight and let you know.

As for the reversal of XLR - I'm not sure if that'd work or not. I'd thought of having my man fit a flick switch that reversed the joystick to board cables. I've attached my joystick box to a quick release plate now rather than use the bracket provided. I've removed that completely because again - it didn't do it for me at all..

Smoothness wise - it's absolutely fine as long as you take care of the gears. I'm wondering whether to start a business selling stainless steel replacements for people - I'm pretty sure its not just me that's identified the problem.

yes, i dont think it would be that hard to engineer something to reverse the controls.. Ideally i would like to rebuild the joystick box and add a reverse switch and lanc zoom facility.. That would be ideal.

Randy - Very Approximate (I had to use bathroom scales) - 2.5kg for the unit.

As far as the control box goes - I have considered binning the whole thing in favour of some radio control hardware - I've been told the accuracy would be far better and I could achive a ramping stop and start if I wanted to. Which I do.

Thanks Andy... 2.5kgs is ok for what i want to do i think so thats good.. Wireless would be great, there is definately some potential for modding gear like this..

Randy - I think it's almost inevitable you'll mod it - I've tweaked mine in lots of ways so far - some have worked, some not. But for the price I think you have to expect some shortcomings that need overcoming.

I actually dont mind a bit of modifying (as long as i get it right).. I usually learn something along the way.. I might ask cine city what a replacement controller is worth just so i know beforehand.

Randy - I think it's almost inevitable you'll mod it - I've tweaked mine in lots of ways so far - some have worked, some not. But for the price I think you have to expect some shortcomings that need overcoming.

Oh god... ¬¬

Yer pal Smifis

Any video yet? Anything will do! Test footage, anything.

Bill

Hi Bill - I shot a bit in my garden you can look at -

http://www.playpauseclick.com/garden/k12.wmv

Wow, Andy that's awesome.

Are you an experienced jib operator? If not, how much practice did it require?



Thanks

Hi Paul - not really - and this was the first time out with this head on. Of course I 'cherry picked' the best bits of tape - but actually didn't edit and awful lot out of that.

Andy,

Thank you, looks good. A couple of questions.
Did you get the Sr or the Jr?
If you were running a second camera/recording audio would the noise of the unit interfere with that recording?

I am considering ordering one of the SR models.

Bill

Kevin Pineda, any update on your experience with the Proaim?