I have a long-term client who asked this question to me today. He said why don’t I shoot with the PDW-700? I said the upfront cost is beyond me at this time but it is square in my sights. Then he asked the question: Do the insider people think Sony will announce a new camera in the spring between the EX3 and the PDW-700? With such a big gap in price I was wondering if this might happen.

I have had the chance to test the PDW-700 and think it is an excellent camera and would buy it today if the cash was there. But I have made the mistake in the past spending too much on gear and strapping my business and besides the EX1 with the Nano is offering great pictures at this time.

Just looking for some educated input.

Thanks

Would you not say that the F355 is halfway between the EX3 and PDW700?
Other than that I'd say that there can't be much more improvement in the EX3 except using CCDs instead of CMOS - that seems to be the only way to get a 2/3" chip, and that's the 700.
Steve

Hi Steve I thought I would get your educated opinion.

Well I agree the F355 is between on price but not picture quality.

I think you are correct Paul. I don't think there is much doubt that the EX produces better pictures than the F355 etc. I do prefer the disc workflow over the SxS workflow.

Hi Steve I thought I would get your educated opinion.

Well I agree the F355 is between on price but not picture quality.

Thanks for the compliment! I'd express a personal opinion though that when shooting fast action the picture on the 355 would be better 'cos it's got CCDs and so no skew.
Steve

I have both an EX1 and Sony f350 and allways grab the 350 for all my shooting.
I think the 350 with a good lens attached produces a nice image.

Cheers

I also own those 3 cams, EX1, F350 and F800 and I very much agree, the F350/355 performs very well. Also, the ergonomics and lens controls of the F350/355 are quite better and precise than on the EX1. I can reframe a shot and focus on the F350 much quicker.

Thierry.

I love my F335, and I definitely think that this middle part of the XDCAM line is where Sony's next product would probably be, since the 700/800 and EX line are both newer than the F3xx line.

I'm hoping they can come up with some cool improvements to it for next NAB SHOW. Shockless gain like the 700/800 has would be a nice and simple new feature I'd love to see.

It's the ergonomics and optical disc workflow that I like best about my F335. And though I love my quality, I am envious of the EX line having full raster HD when I paid more and don't. Maybe it's time for the F3xx line to go CMOS, or SxS cards, or both. As long as they don't lose the full size ergonomics and four channels of audio.

Thanks for the comments and nice to hear from F3xx owners.

I am pretty happy with the EX1 footage using the Convergent Designs Nano at 100Mbps but feel the glass holds me back at times. Playing with shutter speeds I have been able to produce some very nice motion footage. I could go with the EX3 with some nice glass but the problem is I have lost out on a few high end clients not having a 700. Not sure if the client was correct shutting the door on the EX w/Nano but that has been the case. Then I read comments from Alister who shoots with both the EX1 and 700 and can cut between with great results. Still the client rules when it comes to long term high end work.

80% of my client base loves the footage I shoot and they keep coming back, but I am always looking to upgrade the footage and push into the high end client base.

As for the S&S compared to the disk. It would be nice to put the disk on the shelf and run with the footage off the Nano.

but feel the glass holds me back at times.

From what I've seen the lens on the EX1/3 is actually very good. It held its own in tests with Nikon 55 micro and 105 f2.5, which are 2 of the very best, sharpest Nikkors ever made.
I had an F355 for about 2 months and I really liked it too, just fell under the BBC specs so got a PDW700 instead. Only problem with the 700 was getting slomo from it was such a pain, that's why I got a Varicam, otherwise it had a lot of good points.
A hire company I was in the other day said they'd had a couple of problems with the laser disc unit in the 700 that put them off it, anyone else having problems?
Steve

Steve glad to hear you think the glass on the EX1 is that high a quality.

Your point with the F355 and BBC is right in line with my point on the EX series.

Your point with the F355 and BBC is right in line with my point on the EX series.

This is where the Nanoflash seems to really get interesting - BBC spec requires 1/2" or larger sensor so that's OK, and also a 50 mb/s or higher codec, so tick that too (and then some!) with the Nano.
Steve

Hum that is very interesting.

So I understand you correctly BBC will accept the EX1 & EX3 with C-D Nano set to 50Mbps long GOP or higher?

In terms of technical spec yes. Whether they like the CF card recording and the fact that it's still a little untried is another thing. You'd have to talk to your producer/commissioner about it and it'd be different for each project. If you were supplying footage I imagine it'd be fine.
Steve

Thank you Steve always appreciated.

BBC talked about the EX cameras here BBC - BBC Internet Blog: HD Masters Conference Keynote Speech, 23 June 2009 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/06/hd_masters_conference_keynote.html)
Search through it for "EX".
Steve

I'm on stand-by for a BBC shoot. It's weather related and so far the weather has not been right and doesn't look like it will come right thanks to El-Nino. Anyway, for this job the EX plus Nano has been given the green light by the BBC without any issue.

The NanoFlash is a ground breaking piece of kit, that just gets better with every firmware release. I use it with my EX's, my 700 and my HXR-MC1 mini-cams. I run at 100Mb/s most of the time and even the 700 benefits. Often at first glance, first generation footage looks no different, but as soon as you start to grade or go down a couple of generations then the lack of mosquito noise in the NanoFlash footage really makes a huge difference. Timelapse and overcrank will be added in future firmware updates. By feeding the NanoFlash 50P or 60P you will be able to record clips that will play back at half speed, so in the near future I will be able to overcrank with my 700.

I have never found skew on the EX cameras to be an issue and I sold my F350 as I found the EX pictures to be superior. In fact I'm often hard pushed to tell which is EX and which is 700 in the my finished edits. Right now with the 700 I have the best of everything. Optical discs which I can put on the shelf for archive, plus a very fast, ultra quality workflow with the NanoFlash and CF cards. But for many of the shoots I do the compact size and portability of the EX1 and EX3 is crucial.

Like Steve I have found the EX lens to be very good, a lot of which I think is down to the use of electronic CA removal.

Some very early 700 laser decks did suffer from a disc loading problem. This has been rectified and the loading mechanism changed to stop this happening. Sony have been doing advanced aging testing on the 700's simulating many years of use, any issues that crop up are normally sorted via service bulletins.

Thank you Alister that is very encouraging input. So nice to hear that the EX line with Nano can surprise a 700 owner with a critical eye.

Agree the Nano with time-lapse and over cranking will be a huge step for CD.

Also your recommendation on the HXR-MC1 has put that amazing little camera in my sights for the fall.

You shoot the EX3 with the stock lens due to the electronic CA removal? If that is the case why have a EX3 over a EX1?

Seems like I need to push a few clients harder with some demo footage from the EX/Nano when they say I need the 700.

Hope the weather works out for your shoot and thanks for taking the time to post.

I use the EX3 genlock when shooting 3D and I have used the EX3 with some very long lenses (44x Canons and 41x16 Fujinons) for airshow shoots. What I'de really like is an EX1 with genlock as now I have the 700 I don't tend to change the lens on the EX3 very often.

The 700 is, without doubt, a better camera. BUT unless you have the EX and 700 side by side doing the same shot the difference is hard to see. The 700 has less noise and is a little bit more sensitive (too sensitive at times).

So without the 700 you would use the lens options as needed for the shot.

Thank you Alister that makes sense to me.

why have a EX3 over a EX1?

.

Obvious thing is if you need long lenses (eg sport or wildlife), but I'd say it's almost worth getting the EX3 just for the viewfinder - it about 1000x better than the one on the EX1 IMHO.
Steve

I agree that the EX3 VF monocular design is better for tricky focus situations, but I hear good things about the hoodman loupe for the EX1.

In fact I'd like to have the EX3 finder on my PDW-700. Having used good color VF's for a couple of years on my EX's, going back to a mono VF on the 700 was a shock! I'm frantically trying to work out a way to afford a C35W finder (about £6k), but I find it hard to swallow the price of the C35W when for not a lot more I could buy another EX3 (not that I need another one).

Each to to their own I suppose, I still prefer a b/w finder, and when I use the Phantom HD that includes the C35 I switch it to mono. It's got an assignable button that can be used to switch from colour to bw which is great as you have the best of both then (as does the EX3 of course).
Steve

I have the Hoodman for the EX1 which works well.

Wow that is a lot of money for a viewfinder. I was surprised when pricing a 700 how little came with the camera and how expensive the option were. I know this lets you choose just what you need but my old Red One setup was cheaper with a Birger Mount and Canon EF glass. Not very useful for my type of shooting but cheaper.

Other than that I'd say that there can't be much more improvement in the EX3 except using CCDs instead of CMOS - that seems to be the only way to get a 2/3" chip, and that's the 700.
I suspect by "improvement" you are referring to image quality, but what about other factors such as ergonomics and feature set?

I can't claim any inside knowledge, but I think Sony have said in the past that the current cameras are not likely to be the only ones that will ever use SxS. It seems logical to assume that at some stage they are likely to produce a cheap(ish!) 1/2" or 2/3" shouldermount SxS camera - I was half expecting something like that a few months ago.

What many would dearly love to have is a cross between the HPX300 and an EX3. Keep the form factor of the HPX300, and the pro features such as the ability to use V-lock batteries, internal radio mic receiver etc, yet use SxS memory, the EX codec (ideally at up to 50Mbs), and have 1/2" or 2/3" chips.

Surely it must be a case of when, not if? (Oh, and about the price of the HPX300 as well.)

I take the points about the 355, and many users have preferred disc to solid state up to now. But the future must lie eventually with solid state. It all points to something along the lines I've suggested. The big question is when?

problem is I have lost out on a few high end clients not having a 700.

Could you not hire for these jobs?

I take the points about the 355, and many users have preferred disc to solid state up to now. But the future must lie eventually with solid state.

As long as the backup is available. The disc is still nice to put on the shelf. But with the U1 now performing general data writing that is much less of an issue now.

On such a camera four SxS slots would be good too.

Simon hire out is not in this budget. I will keep pushing them on EX and Nano and see where I get. But two are live feeds so time will tell there.

I agree that the EX3 VF monocular design is better for tricky focus situations, but I hear good things about the hoodman loupe for the EX1.

In fact I'd like to have the EX3 finder on my PDW-700. Having used good color VF's for a couple of years on my EX's, going back to a mono VF on the 700 was a shock! I'm frantically trying to work out a way to afford a C35W finder (about £6k), but I find it hard to swallow the price of the C35W when for not a lot more I could buy another EX3 (not that I need another one).

I've been shooting with the EX3 and the NanoFlash and find the 100mg setting to produce excellent results. However, I shot a jazz performance recently under tungsten lighting. The IR problem is very clear in this situation. I understand the new tiffen T1 IR filter will solve this problem but at a 1 stop loss. All in all, the EX3 and nanoflash are excellent together and the NanoFlash has given a serious upgrade on the camera's imagery.

Well I guess my answer to the thread is here. I have a PMW-350 on pre-order with Abel. With the CD Nano attached this will keep my high end clients happy.

Having spent a day with the 350, I don't think it will just be your clients that are happy!

Great form factor, lightweight, low power consumption and outstanding picture quality - you're going to be very happy too

Thanks for the input Steve. I look forward to shooting in Jan with the 350.

I like the form factor of the new 350 but I hate being in the first bunch who get the camera as there are bound to be issues which come up in the production models as they are released. Of course if I had a job which would pay for it I would take the plunge sooner rather than later

Agree form factor is excellent. Having used Sony's F900, 355, 700 I always have a hard time going back to my EX1 for form factor but not the picture quality with the Nano.

Daniel you are correct do not purchase a camera unless it pays for itself. I would never buy and could never afford a camera if it would not pay for itself in the following months.

I purchased the EX1 on the first round and zero problems. Still using that same camera. I think issues in first production models is overblown and to be on the leading edge you have to "be on the leading edge".

In the case of the EX1, there were actually a few issues on earlier production models but Sony has been very good in handlinng those proactively whenerver they received a camera for a firmware upgrade.

Thierry.

Agree Thierry Sony did handle it well. But I used the camera for 6 months prior to the firmware update with out a problem.

Well Steve and I shot a real job with the 350, not just random tests and it performed flawlessly. I got a very early EX1 and other than a firmware update I have not needed to do anything to it.

I'll have some of my 350 footage at the Sony Power of Images event in London this week.