I'm currently going through a second logic board swap on my 15" Aluminum Powerbook, and would like to share what I've learned with others in the hope it may save you some trouble down the road.

My problem is that the lower DIMM slot on my machine is no longer recognized. Since I don't check my RAM amount on any regular basis, it's hard to say when this happened but I'd guess it was about a year after getting the Powerbook. At first I thought it was bad RAM, but testing by swapping 3 different DIMMS between both slots yielded consistent results: they all worked in the upper slot but failed in the lower slot. There were also transients where it would work briefly after swapping, then stop working, or freeze the computer, or cause a boot failure.

In doing some research at Apple's own support forums I learned that a lot of people with 15" Powerbooks are having the same problem. At first I thought it was because I had one of the first generation (1ghz) Aluminum models, but now I see people with the new 1.67ghz machines describing the exact same symptoms.

Visit the following thread at Apple's site to read all the details:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@811.UBWaabUU2Dl.0@.68ab7b77

I'm not sure if this link will always work; if it doesn't then go to http://discussions.info.apple.com and navigate to Powerbook > 15" G4 Aluminum > Bluetooth-USB-Firewire-RAM > Lower Memory Slot Failure? CONTACT APPLE HERE. This is a big thread with over 130 postings.

You'll also find a link there to express your concern over this matter to Apple, which I suggest you do. At the present time they haven't acknowledged the problem. When I took my machine in for Applecare service they swapped the motherboard with a remanufactured one and I had it back in 3 days. Two days later the same problem showed up (and the RAM it fails to recognize is Apple's own factory installed DIMM). It's in the shop now getting another logic board, although they've kept it a little longer this time to do some testing at the Apple Store first.

I'm lucky that I got Applecare; if you read that thread on Apple's site several people are out of warranty and not very happy. The problem doesn't seem to show up for awhile on most machines, and how often do you check to see if all your RAM's there anyway?

So just a word to the wise: if you have a 15" AlBook, check your RAM! And if you have a machine currently under the standard Apple warranty, you might want to seriously consider buying Applecare while you still can...

Thanks Boyd. I have a 15" PB as well and one of my RAM slots (not sure if it's the lower one) has never worked. I'm still under warranty for another couple months, but the problem (as is usually the case it seems) is that I'm not sure I can allocate who knows how long to get it fixed. That said, was your quick turn around because you have Applecare? I'd love to get it fixed as it only recognizes 1/2 of my ram (only 512MB), but definitely can't wait 4-6 weeks or any extended period of time to do so.

Maybe I should take it up to the Apple store a few blocks from my place and see what they say.

mg

Read that thread I linked to. People are typically getting ~3 days turnaround time. I guarantee you that it's the lower slot, have never heard of an upper slot failure. Don't put this off if your warranty is near expiration, also consider getting Applecare while you still can. Applecare service should be no different than regualr warranty service, and Apple gets the highest marks of any computer company for their service (according to Consumer Reports).

When I took my mac in the second time they wanted to do some tests at the Apple Store to confirm the problem before sending to the depot. This delayed things by 3 days, but I'm sure the actual repair will only take a day, plus shipping time. You can track your repair on their website. It certainly won't take 4 weeks!

If there's one nearby, definitely take it to an Apple Store. They were very nice there and didn't question anything I told them. They handle all the shipping, etc. Actually, they can fix it right in the store if they have a logic board in stock. Otherwise they say it's quicker to send it to a depot.

Let us know how it works out, and use the link I posted to express your concerns to Apple. Maybe they will offer an extended logic board warranty if enough people call this to their attention.

I just went into System Profiler and it says that my upper slot is empty, even though I know I have a 512 MB stick in there. I don't know if it's a related issue then, although it has always been this way, so it seems it may be related. Anyway, I'm going to take your advice and take my PB down to the Apple Store tonight or tomorrow evening.

mg

That's odd, may be a different problem. What happens if you swap DIMM's? If the same one fails in the other slot it could be a compatibility issue, and if it isn't Apple RAM then you're probably out of luck. But I would definitely try the switch to observe what happens before taking it in.

I can echo Boyd's comments about Applecare. Unfortunately, my power supply started giving a burning smell last Friday afternoon. I pulled the supply and could see visible signs of smoke residue on the outside of the supply and part of my machine. Called Applecare and they said although it was too late on Friday to get the part sent out, that it would go out DHL next day. Today is Tuesday and I just put the new supply in about an hour ago. It took longer because it was over the weekend.

Good service, quick delivery. And most importantly, I wasn't treated like an idiot making me go through some silly script that many support phone techs want to do.

=gb=

Thanks for posting this; I'm lucky enough to say that my 1st gen. AluBook seems to be dodging this problem as both slots are showing up in the system profiler, but it's worth keeping an eye on.

Glad you're not seeing this problem Charles. I was really surprised when a second logic board had the same issue fresh from the factory! Those odds are pretty discouraging...

For an interesting report on Apple's tech support and repair service, see the following:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/12/08/consumer/index.php

I have done the swapping DIMMs trick and it's always the upper that isn't recognized. It's frustrating, and up until installing Tiger I hadn't really run into the issue of only having 512 MB. Now that I'm doing more AE and FCP stuff, that extra ram would really help, so it's now become a frustration.

Regardless, I'll let you guys know what happens with Apple and if they think it may be related.

As a quick followup, Apple shipped my Powerbook to the repair depot on Monday. According to their online tracking, it is now back at the Apple Store and ready for pickup, on Wednesday afternoon. Pretty fast turnaround. I'll let you know whether logic board #3 works the way it should...

another 15" powerbook owner here. same problem, one of the DIMMS no longer recognized, now stuck with 512Mb RAM, which really hits performance. what are the cheapest options given that the machine is out of warranty? just buy a 1Gb DIMM or get it repared? Since it's out of warranty is it something I could fix myself (highly risky I know)?

Highly unlikely you can fix this yourself.... Apple can't even fix it! Don't waste your money getting it repaired, because the repair (swap of a refurbed logic board) doesn't seem to help. I'm currently on logic board number 3 and still the same problem.

Update on my situation: I was hopeful when the 3rd logic board worked fine for over a week. But of course, as soon as I got to Argentina where I really needed the machine for heavy editing the lower RAM slot failed again.

I'm really getting frustrated by this. Glad that I have Applecare, but I now have no faith that Apple will ever get both slots to work reliably. I'm taking the machine to the local apple store when they open today to discuss the situation. If needed, I'll just keep bringing it back every couple weeks as each new board fails. Eventually I suspect they will offer me a replacement, although I would be perfectly happy for them to actually fix my old machine.

As for your situation Joe, if you don't need more than 1GB RAM then I'd suggest you just buy one stick of it. I run fine with a 1GB stick in the upper slot (and an unavailable 512MB in the lower). But I really do want to use all the memory I own, so I'm not giving up on this. Maybe Apple will eventually acknowledge what is obviously a design flaw.

Visit the link I posted below:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@811.UBWaabUU2Dl.0@.68ab7b77

There are now 250 posts in that thread. But I was only able to find it now by using a link, it seems to have become buried on Apple's site. Conspiracy theories anyone? ;-)

Hi there,

I have had my 15" G4 powerbook now for almost 4 1/2 months. It's the new version currently for sale (1.5Ghz etc etc.).
My memory slot also died after only month of use. As I am very dependant on this machine, I only had it fixed 2 weeks ago, in the meantime living with only 512mb of memory in the upper slot. Now that it's fixed, I can use both slots again. The fix was a complete logic board replacement, provided under warranty.

Which brings me to my next problem. Since the new logic board was fitted, I have had massive problems with my audio for some reason. The sound is perfect, until it either starts creaking, or dies alltogether. I can restart the application providing the sound, such as iTunes, and it will still be broken. The wierd thing however is that the notification sound for new mail does come thru very clearly. Midi files also fail completely after 1 second of play time.
Also whenever I remote login to my powerbook via SSH, I sometimes now get disconnected by my powerbook, with a message stating "Corrupted MAC on input".

I never had these problems before the logic board "fix". Anyone else had these kind of audio problems?

The bad part is that as I stated I'm pretty dependant on this machine. I went back to the apple store over here, and explained the audio problems. They claim they have never heard of this before. They said I would lose my PB for at least 3 weeks while they investigate what the problem is and if it actually is the result of the logic board replacement. On a side note, they also claimed my powerbook was the first one they ever saw with a dead memory slot.

Via some strange coincidence, a collegue of mine, who got his 15" PB 3 weeks later, also had his memery slot die on him. Then again, this was only recently.

Besides all the problems I'm having with this machine I really like my powerbook tho, don't get me wrong :)

That is very odd. 3 weeks is pretty unacceptable; where are you located? My powerbook at on its way to the repair depot to get a FOURTH logic board. Each time this has only taken a few days however and I never saw any odd side effects. I wonder if it might be as simple as a loose connector inside? Pain though it may be, you probably need to send it back to them. You can try working your way up the chain of supervisors by calling their tech support if you are not satisfied with the service. I've done this before and gotten results.

The techs at my Apple store say the same thing about the dead memory slots. I brought in a printout of some of the posts from the thread at Apple's site and they immediately dismissed them as isolated and unusual failures, I left the printout on the desk and as I left he crumpled it up and threw it in the trash. The tech did agree that 3 failures in a row was more than coincidence. He said they had to follow procedures and try to fix it 3 times before they could even discuss a replacement.

Wow that sucks, I haven't heard of that problem until now, maybe it's a location thing, but I doubt it. I just finished paying off my laptop so I'm hoping that I don't experience the same problem, I agree with you on the warranty though I think it will prove to be invaluable should something like this happen. Hmm I wonder if it is some sort of location thing, does the changing power between countries maybe inversely effect the logic board and or ram? Could funky ram be causing the memory slot failure? I don't know, but sure does stink. Maybe if it fails again and they're ready to exchange it you should wait until one of the new intel models come out, or maybe not that would be a whole nother set of problems.

I had the first two failures here in the US under normal use. The slot that failed had the original Apple 256MB RAM chips. Read the thread on Apple's site in that link above. Lots of people are having this problem, and many of them are using Apple RAM.

I think it's a design flaw. When I take the machine in to be fixed they pop in a refurbed logic board. Obviously they don't know how to screen for this problem, and it must affect most of the earlier models like mine which is a first generation Aluminim Powerbook. Very frustrating...

is this problem on the newest gen of pb as well???

It appears to affect every model of the 15" laptop, right up to the current ones. See post number 13 on the previous page of this same thread: have had my 15" G4 powerbook now for almost 4 1/2 months. It's the new version currently for sale (1.5Ghz etc etc.). My memory slot also died after only month of use.

Also see the thread on Apple's site. You may need to click "view all" at the bottom of the page to see the full thread (which is very long):

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@811.UBWaabUU2Dl.0@.68ab7b77

There is now a website dedicated exclusively to this topic:

http://lowermemoryslot.editkid.com/

My powerbook is back home again with its fourth logic board installed. Aside from these problems, I really have to commend Apple on their service here in the US. I was only without my machine for 3 business days.

There are a couple symptoms to look for that I'd never really noticed when the lower slot fails. The startup chime goes away, and the boot process takes longer. You get a blank screen for a little while (possibly during a RAM test?) during boot with a bad lower slot.

Finally got a chance and an accomodating workload to try and take care of this issue with the ram slot (although mysteriously mine is the upper slot). Went to the Apple Store here in New York and was told a) I can't skip the people at the genius bar who are here to find out how to load songs on their iPod even though I know what is wrong with my Powerbook and b) it will take 7 to 10 business days to repair my computer. Even though people have mentioned only having to deal with 3 business days, the idea of Apple having leeway to deal with my machine for two weeks is scary. Furthermore, the woman said that I could call Apple and have them send me a prepaid mailer to send the Powerbook back, but she made it sound like that would take even longer and the note of doubt in her voice left me less than enthused. I'm going to take it tomorrow at 8am (which, apparently, is express walk up genius bar time) I guess and see what they say. I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that for the premium price a Powerbook commands, the service (and apparently the design) isn't a little better.

I think this is just a "fringe benefit" of living in New York ;-) The 3 times I've taken my laptop to the local store here in NJ turnaround was extremely fast. However just recently a columnist somewhere (Forbes or Fortune I think) wrote of his experience getting his iMac fixed at the Soho store in NYC. It sounded a lot like your post. He had to wait to talk to a "genius," he got attitude, and it took a week.

I've used that option in the past with the mailers and it was also very fast. You call the apple support line, where you may wait for awhile and have to escalate the issue up to the supervisor level. But once approved they sent a box to me via Airborne Express overnight. The next day they picked it up, and a couple days later it came back. I was very impressed, although this was probably 10 years ago...

Well, unfortunately I woke up late today and wasn't able to make it to the Apple Store by 8am. Went anyway to see what the line was like and at 11am the earliest appointment was 5pm. I tried to tell the kid that I knew what was going on and all I needed to do was send it and get it fixed, that it's a known problem, etc.

He told me I could come to genius bar express from 6-8am. Thanks, kid. I did get to see what appeared to be a similar situation to mine. A guy with two Powerbooks in front of me was waiting at the genius bar. One of the kids came up to him and attempted to upbraid him for walking away in the middle of a conversation. Apparently, he had been trying to get his fixed and the kid basically wouldn't take care of him. I felt for the guy.

Anyone know what the support for Boxx or Alienware machines is like? I hate PC, but if I can get DESIGN FLAWS fixed in an appropriate timeframe, I may switch. What kind of switch campaign would that be for Apple?

Another update: Apple has removed the long thread about this problem from their tech support site this morning, so the links in my earlier posts aren't going to work now. It had more than 300 posts at that time. I'm not really reading this as a "conspiracy" or anything; the thread was starting to cross the line with people suggesting legal action and so forth, which is clearly against their forum rules.

For the latest news on this issue you can visit the following site:

http://lowermemoryslot.editkid.com/

Another update: Apple has removed the long thread about this problem from their tech support site this morning, so the links in my earlier posts aren't going to work now. It had more than 300 posts at that time. I'm not really reading this as a "conspiracy" or anything; the thread was starting to cross the line with people suggesting legal action and so forth, which is clearly against their forum rules.

For the latest news on this issue you can visit the following site:

http://lowermemoryslot.editkid.com/

I think Apple may be in about an obvious design flaw. Many companies, including car manufacturers used to be able to say, "This is the first I've heard of this problem". Thanks to the power of the internet, what seemed like an isolated issue is now immediately recognizable as a frequent problem and companies don't like to admit to things like that.

-gb-

My repair has been put on hold (seemingly indefinitely) due to a part shortage. The part, of course, being a new logic board. It appears to me that this may be a wide ranging product design issue.

Boyd, or anyone else for that matter, is there any benefit to trying to call and pester these guys about it? I have a feeling it's going to take a full 2 business weeks to get this back, which is just completely unacceptable. Right now I'm stuck with a friend's TiBook with a dead battery. What other courses of action might I have in this situation?

I think the site in the link above is a good clearinghouse for these issues, the owner has setup some forums dedicated to the problem there. I don't think we can discuss some of the "solutions" they're considering here at DVinfo because of legal concerns unfortunately.

Which model powerbook do you have Matthew? To Apple's credit, all of my logic board swaps were done very quickly and I was only without a computer for a few days. However mine is a first generation 1ghz Aluminum model, so I imagine availability varies by model. Somewhere I've read that while the motherboards are basically the same design, the newer ones have different connector locations and won't fit my old model.

Are they fixing it at the store? My local store said that would take much longer since they'd have to wait for parts, so they sent it to the repair depot instead. You might want to inquire about this, and ask them to send it out instead of doing and in-store repair (if that's the case).

It's really too bad that Apple is angering so many loyal users with this flaw in an otherwise great product. Once again, I'd urge anyone buying a 15" Powerbook to get the Applecare warranty.

For more information on the lower slot failure issue, copy the text below, paste it into Google and do a search. Looks like we are not alone...

Lower Memory Slot Failure? CONTACT APPLE HERE

I received my Powerbook today from Apple via DHL. I booted up and immediately checked About This Mac and found 1GB of RAM. Finally. It seems the saga is over.

But wait. Now I find that my battery won't charge my battery. Ugh.

Now I find that my battery won't charge my battery. Ugh.

Does this help? http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449

Thanks, Boyd, but I tried that and no luck. I'm going to call Apple tomorrow regarding this.

Another update. Apple has put the long 350 post thread related to this problem back on their website, although it is now locked. Regardless, I'm glad to see they did the right thing since that thread has a lot of useful information in it:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@532.cnTcaJ0P4Sv.4@.68ab7b77

(edit) Looks like only part of the thread is viewable now actually, but still it's better than nothing...

Here's another update. My powerbook is still working more than a month after its 3rd repair (hoping this doesn't jinx me ;-)

The memory slot problem has also earned its own entry into the Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Lower_Memory_Slot_failure

Meanwhile, more reports of failures continue to surface. Here are a few current threads on Apple's support website:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?128@870.sF2PadZ57ze.0@.68af093a
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@110.7ee9aaYw4O6.0@.68b65548
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?13@748.CKx7apYkXYa.280793@.68b423c6
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?128@504.hfhcaapx4t6.0@.68b49c3f

I am a bit concerned and wary now. I have the latest rev powerbook 1.67ghz, and I've only had it for a few months....

quoted from the wiki:

Some users of recent Aluminum PowerBook models are reporting a design flaw resulting in the failure of their PowerBook's lower memory slot. The typical resolution is replacement of the logic board, similar to iBook failures. A petition was started in early June 2005 and as of May 2006 has collected 1,582 signatures. Presently, Apple has started a Repair Extension Program for PowerBooks affected by the issue, for up to 2 years from the original date of purchase, even if the computer is out of warranty. However this repair program does not include the G4 PowerBook 1.25 Ghz model, which are affected by the same problem. It also does not cover the G4 Powerbook 1.5 Ghz model if its serial number does not fall into the range of serial numbers that Apple has approved for repairs. This model also exhibits the exact same problems as the identified models. So far Apple refuses to acknowledge the problem with this model, just as they previously did with the now covered models.

I have sent both my TiBook and then my AluBook back to Apple for a variety of reasons. I can tell you that it is quick! They send a special box via DHL, complete with a pre-addressed label, and DHL picks up your computer in this box. It is back within 3 days.

The only pitfall is, when they recommend you back up your hard drive, you better pay attention! I received my machine back with the hard drive reformatted (or replaced, I don't know) and I had to re-install everything (pain in the arse).

I definitely recommend you purchase the applecare plan before the standard warranty runs out; the first time it needs fixing after the warranty will be well worth the money. Oh yeah, and if you sell the machine with time left on the applecare plan, you are selling a machine with a free warranty, because it transfers to the new owner...kind of nice if the person is nervous about buying a used computer.

Yep, I agree. I almost never buy extended warranties but I make an exception for laptop computers.

BTW, just to update this old thread, my 15" 1Ghz G4 Powerbook has been working fine ever since its last repair. It meets my needs fine for the time being, since I just use it in the office for things like FileMaker, Excel, Word and VectorWorks. But if I ever need to do anything with HDV or 3d modeling while away from my G5 then it would be time to put it out to pasture and get a new MacBook Pro :-)

this happened to me 4 times. 4 TIMES!!!!!!!

It also killed 3 ipods conected over firewire.
next time, there giving me an upgrade to a MacBookpro.

but ti really sucks that i have to keep going into the store. i'm a procare member so they fix it over night if they have the part, but still. it pisses me off.

FWIW, when I took mine in the 3rd time they said that if it wasn't fixed after 3 tries they would be willing to discuss giving me a replacement. Third time was the charm for me though. In retrospect, I'm wondering if this problem is related to the type of RAM used? I had 1GB chip in one slot and a 512MB in the other. Last time I got it back I put the original 256MB chip in place of the 512 and everything has been fine since then. So that makes me wonder if there's something about that 512 which aggravates the problem? It's annoying that I've got a 512MB chip I can't use, but less annoying than taking the computer in for service.

Whatever, this laptop is probably entering its final year for me anyway. My AppleCare is all used up now, so I'll be looking at a replacement the next time something goes wrong....

...In retrospect, I'm wondering if this problem is related to the type of RAM used? I had 1GB chip in one slot and a 512MB in the other. Last time I got it back I put the original 256MB chip in place of the 512 and everything has been fine since then. So that makes me wonder if there's something about that 512 which aggravates the problem? It's annoying that I've got a 512MB chip I can't use, but less annoying than taking the computer in for service.....Well, Boyd, if you sell the 512 chip on eBay, you'll be done with it, and that money can be used toward another 1 gig chip (if it's worth it for just 1 year).