Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

Not many people are going to use a $50,000 camera to shoot a wedding. RED is direct sales only. So if you want to buy one, you go to them. However, seeing where you live (not far from where I used to live) you can get your hands on one if you go across the GWB.

RED will start filling order tickets for Scarlet by next year (subject to change of course), and their "low-end" model that comes with a fixed 8x lens will be completely equipped to shoot 3k out of the box (no additional purchases required to start using the camera) for under $3,800. They've all but set that price point in stone. Not a bad entry model for things like weddings. =)

I am really interested only in their mid range models like the Epic that is truly modular, that also can accept prime 35mm lenses, somewhat affordable. I have already invested over 22 grand for somethings that are already obsolete or would be a considerable expenditure to upgrade. Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark but I really must get my hands on some RED Code sample clips to see how well it would fare with FCP and my NLE workflow. I wish there is a dealer that has them for in store evaluation and testing prior to purchase and that I can take home with me a few seconds of RAW files on a DVD to fiddle around with on my Mac. Many dealers I talked to don't even know what it is.

Take some time and study the RED stuff if it really interests you. But you REALLY need to learn the product line first.

The Entry level model will be the Scarlet. It will likely retail somewhere in the $4k to $15k space. It has not yet been released

The next model up is the RED One. It is the model currently for sale, and costs between $32k and $55k ready to shoot depending on options.

The top model is the Epic. It has not yet been released, but will probably occupy the space from $50k - $100k.

All cameras are built on a modular platform.

In terms of FCP, the developers of RED are FCP users. FCP is supported before anything else, and it get's the best tools. Getting your hands on RAW Red footage is not difficult. But honestly, if you are going to work with it in FCP, you are likely going to be doing a log and transfer into FCP with ProResHQ or the newly released high quality ProRes if you have the latest update of FCP.

Dealers don't know what it is, because it's not for sale through dealers. You need to start talking to Cinema Rental houses.

Check places like this:
Du-All Camera - Motion Picture Camera Equipment : Rentals, Sales and Repairs (http://www.duallcamera.com/)
Red One Camera Rentals, Rent Red One Packages | New York City, NYC NY (http://www.isisrental.com/red.html)
Unfolded Films + About (http://www.unfoldedfilms.com/pages/REDcamera.html)

That should put you on the path...

-P

Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

Pat, I shoot with a Red One on occasion but I wouldn't dream of shooting a wedding with one. Ever heard the expression "the right tool for the job at hand"? Well the Red One is not the right tool to cover weddings. It is a great tool for shooting movies, or for shooting commercials as I do, if you have the time & budget.

I won't speculate on the yet to be released Red models as that would be foolish.


I am really interested only in their mid range models like the Epic that is truly modular, that also can accept prime 35mm lenses, somewhat affordable. I have already invested over 22 grand for somethings that are already obsolete or would be a considerable expenditure to upgrade. Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark but I really must get my hands on some RED Code sample clips to see how well it would fare with FCP and my NLE workflow. I wish there is a dealer that has them for in store evaluation and testing prior to purchase and that I can take home with me a few seconds of RAW files on a DVD to fiddle around with on my Mac. Many dealers I talked to don't even know what it is.

Some things become obsolete over time, its no different with video equipment & computers, so get used to it. And if you truly think that the new modular Reds will be future proof, you're dreaming. There are plenty of Red files on the Net for you to test your workflow with. You might look through some of the links posted on the Red site.

Good Luck!

The Epic will be RED's high end model. I suspect unless you're involved in high end productions the 35mm sensor Scarlet would make sense. You don't mention if your 35mm lenses are stills lenses or cine, I'm assuming the former, so the Scarlet (S35 or FF35) would be much more in that budget ball park.

... Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark ...

That won't even buy you a Red One body, let a lone an Epic. It would do well with a Scarlet, however, from what we've been told to expect.

It's awfully tough to cost justify spending 15 grand on a camera kit, for shooting weddings at typical going rates.

Well. here in the Tri-State area (NY,NJ,Conn.) I shoot 50+ videos per year averaging between 2300 to 2700 dollars per contract. I figure I can fully afford one with only less than 10 weddings work. I shoot and edit all my work. I thought I saw a model (body only) for around 8 grand and with the rest of the stuff and viewfinder to be around 15 G's. When I used to shoot photography, my Hasselblad and lenses alone totaled over 20 G's, and that was around 1996. Weddings require the best resolution and customers are very demanding. Almost all newlyweds have a 1080p 16:9 HD over 42" LCD in their house nowadays. Show a standard def 3:4 letterboxed version of their wedding day and you're looking at a refund. For now, I'll wait and see what RED has to offer for the upcoming season, I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

The next model up from the RED Scarlet is the RED one. It's available now. The body is $17.9k if memory serves and with Lens, recording option, viewfinder, etc., it's about $32k ready to shoot. And you'll need a tripod for it that can handle about 30 pounds.

Check out spec's, prices here:

RED / Cameras (http://www.red.com/cameras/)

RED / Lenses (http://www.red.com/lenses/)

RED / Accessories (http://www.red.com/accessories/)

RED STORE (http://www.red.com/store)

... Almost all newlyweds have a 1080p 16:9 HD over 42" LCD in their house nowadays. Show a standard def 3:4 letterboxed version of their wedding day and you're looking at a refund. For now, I'll wait and see what RED has to offer for the upcoming season, I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

A $1,000 camcorder can shoot 1080p 16:9 HD. To be honest, if you want excellent quality, good low light performance and interchangeable lenses, I'd seriously look at the Sony EX-3.

You don't need (even want) the shallow DOF that the Red offers. Red's big advantages are when it comes to digital cinema, where you have time to setup shots, use a focus puller, have a major set of sticks or steadycam operator and know when the talent is going to move and where they are going to stop. 4K resolution and 12-bit 4:4:4 color isn't going to help you for editing a wedding, unless you want day for night color corrections composited on to a starfield and projected in a local theatre with the hope of fooling NASA. If you don't own FCS 3 or CS4, you're not going to be able to work with 4K resolution anyway. [I just wanted to clarify that Vegas does also work natively w/ Red files at 4K resolution, but it cannot not use the direct access approach that Apple and Adobe use; it has to use the SDK. That and the fact that Vegas uses no hardware acceleration, makes using it slower than FCS or Premiere. But Vegas is a choice for natively editing Red footage.] And you'll need one very fast PC or Mac and experience long render times. Your workflow will take much longer, b/c you'll most likely be editing files transcoded into ProRes and then have to reconform them to the original R3D's in Color. But all that will be lost anyway since you aren't doing a filmout or projecting on a big screen; nobody's 42" plasma plays 4K DPX files, so you're stuck going back to 1080p. And you'll be providing, at best a BluRay DVD, (which FCPS can't natively make) which is not only 1080p (not 4K) but it's also compressed w/ much more loss than RedCode does. So what in the world is the point??

And if you're a one man operation, how are you going to even focus the Red? How are you going to move it? How will you not annoy the crap out the guests by hauling a movie production camera around this intimate setting? Unless you're filming the Gotti family before their fall, I don't see how such ostentation could be considered anything but a major, annoying distraction. And even then, there's a good chance Bruce Cuttler would give you a cease and desist.

I'm not trying to pour water on you wanting the very best. But Scarlet IS the Red product that comes closest to what you're looking for. And the EX-3 is probably the most ideal, shootable now option out there.

JMHO, and truly, good luck w/ everything.

I'm not trying to pour water on you

Gee, Peter. You sure know how to rain on a guy's parade, hehe :-)

Great post.

Yes but Peter makes the point... Sometimes what you want & what you need are two different things!

Yes but Peter makes the point... Sometimes what you want & what you need are two different things!

That's why I followed my comment with "Great post".

There is a DVInfo member who has some posts in the Convergent Designs section who owned and EX-1, upgraded to a RED and then sold the RED and went back to the EX-1 with a Nano Flash.

I am sure RED has its places, but my point is that the EX series is going to be very close in image quality if 1080p is your max output resolution.

The price and useability/portability make it seem like a better value strickly speaking for weddings.

Ultimately the fact remains that you can use pretty much any video camera for just about any video application. It boils down to budget, ergonomics and workflow -- there really is no right or wrong decision; it's simply a matter of "what's right for you."

I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

Hi Pat.

Maybe you're thinking of something like the S35 Scarlet (US$7,000 for the brain and takes interchangeable lenses)?

You've brought up some really interesting points. I agree with you about the proliferation of widescreen HD plasmas and LCDs. Especially over the last 12 months.

Peter is quite right in his post about the hassles of working in 4K or higher with the R3D files, etc. But there is also going to be a different mode that you can shoot in (with the yet-to-be-released Scarlets) which should be perfectly suited for uses like weddings and corporate videos. It's called "FF1080P". I can't, at the moment, find a link which explains FF1080P, but my recall of it is that it will use the image from the full 5K Bayer sensor and convert it to 1080p RGB files. These should be quite easy to edit on a modern NLE (and much smaller file sizes than 5K R3D files!).

I've been shooting corporate video in 720p (using a JVC GY-HD101 with its stock Fujinon zoom lens) for the last 4 years, but have at least one upcoming job where the client wants to display shots of their properties on a large 1080p plasma in their lobby. So I've been kicking around the idea of hiring a Sony PMW-EX1 (which shoots in 1080p on 1/2 inch sensors) for that and hold off on buying until the S35 Scarlet is released. In my case, the S35 Scarlet would be used for both corporate and indie projects (I bring in a DP to shoot the indie stuff). The initial Scarlet kit I'd be looking to get would be brain, I/O module (for the audio XLRs), battery module and LCD screen. Then add to the kit later as I go along.

The main thing that concerns me is lenses - cost of. I spoke this afternoon to my regular DP about inexpensive lens options if I go with the idea of me shooting corporate with an S35 Scarlet and he felt I might be able to start off with some older stills lenses: a 50mm prime for the talking head stuff, an 18-50mm (or 18-70mm) zoom and a 70-200mm zoom. Then later, bit by bit, accumulate a set of RED Pro primes (and zooms). The idea of starting off with some stills lenses might work for controlled corporate shooting (which I do), but I don't know what sort of lenses you would go with for shooting a wedding. That would be pretty random stuff, I imagine. So maybe Peter is right about something like an EX3 being more optimum for a wedding.

But I do love the look of the test images that RED posted (on Reduser) from their 5K sensor. And I'm a big fan of oversampling (such as 5K down to 1080p in the case of the FF1080P format). I personally find oversampling to be more aesthetically pleasing (so long as the material is well shot in the first place).

But it's all theoretical, as Scarlet S35 doesn't currently have a release date (the earlier "Summer 2009 est." has slipped) and I have no idea when they'll really put it out. So I'm prepared to make an EX1 or EX3 purchase in the interim, if customer demand for 1080p continues to increase. But it would be nice if they could release S35 Scarlet sooner rather than later and I can just get the one camera (5K for indie and FF1080P for corporate).

But it's all theoretical, as Scarlet S35 doesn't currently have a release date (the earlier "Summer 2009 est." has slipped) and I have no idea when they'll really put it out.

Jim Jannard posted a couple of days ago that the Epic and Scarlet release schedule will be announced some time this month:

"Details of the release schedule for EPIC and Scarlet coming sometime in October. We are taking our time so you won't be disappointed."

Can't wait!

David, I believe Scarlet will be 3K, which is less resolution than the current Red One. If there is a mode to save as RGB instead of RAW, it will still be coming from a 3K Bayer sensor which when demosaiced should have an effective resolution around 2.5K. Also realize that 1080P is 1920 wide. So you're really looking at the difference between 2.5K and something just under 2K. And that's before the downrezing.

Also, that file will still be compressed in some form, which means codec support is needed, even if the RAW to RGB conversion happens inside the camera.

I can definitely see the attraction of a Red for corporate work, but like you pointed out pro lenses will make it quite an expensive rig, and all the other things...

But for weddings where you don't know where people are going to move to, you need a reliable autofocus or a deep depth of field. The first Red has never made, but does say it will offer in a fixed lens version of Scarlet. And deep DOF means the S35 size sensor's main advantage is wasted.

Hi Peter.

The Scarlet brochure has 4 models: 3K, 3K with fixed lens, 5K (S35) and 6K (FF35).

My comments were specifically only about the Scarlet 5K S35 proposed model. My guess is that the de-bayered 5K would yield about 4K of RGB. I think that this should give a nice oversampled FF1080P image. But the proof will be in the pudding and we won't know for sure until they actually release the camera and we can see some FF1080P images from the S35 Scarlet.

I agree with your comments about the difficulties concerning lenses and weddings with an S35 sensor.

David, Thank you very much for pointing that out to me :). I very much appreciate it.

There is a DVInfo member who has some posts in the Convergent Designs section who owned and EX-1, upgraded to a RED and then sold the RED and went back to the EX-1 with a Nano Flash.

Said RED was the biggest mistake he had made in his business career.

I am sure RED has its places, but my point is that the EX series is going to be very close in image quality if 1080p is your max output resolution.

The price and useability/portability make it seem like a better value strickly speaking for weddings.

Tim,

I recently had a chance, along with three other DPs (thanks to one of the local rental houses), to play with all these cams over a full weekend.

See my take on the weekend's shooting in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-gy-hm-series-camera-systems/341406-1st-impressions-700-100-a-2.html

That's the model I was thinking about (S35) instead of the Epic. I have videotaped over 2000 (thousand) weddings and mostly on manual focus and manual white balance and yes manual iris (aperture), I intend to use my Nikkor prime lenses that I have from them film days.16mmF2.8 fisheye, 20mm F2, 24mmF2, 35mmF1.4, 50mmF1.4, 85mmF1,4, 135mmF2 and 180F2.8. No Zooms at all. Can't wait to rent before purchase one.

Weddings require the best resolution and customers are very demanding. Almost all newlyweds have a 1080p 16:9 HD over 42" LCD in their house nowadays. Show a standard def 3:4 letterboxed version of their wedding day and you're looking at a refund.

Do you deliver in HD on Blu-Ray disk, to wedding video clients?

That's the model I was thinking about (S35) instead of the Epic. I have videotaped over 2000 (thousand) weddings and mostly on manual focus and manual white balance and yes manual iris (aperture), I intend to use my Nikkor prime lenses that I have from them film days.16mmF2.8 fisheye, 20mm F2, 24mmF2, 35mmF1.4, 50mmF1.4, 85mmF1,4, 135mmF2 and 180F2.8. No Zooms at all. Can't wait to rent before purchase one.

Pat, you are certainly very experienced and know what you are getting yourself into. And it seems like you can make it work and be an advantage for you. And renting before buying makes esp. great sense in your case, since it seems your shoots are almost by definition one day affairs (well hopefully longer for those exchanging the nuptials ;)).

BTW, just in fairness to those who gave advice here, we were all saying that Scarlet IS the Red model most suited for your needs, not Epic (too expensive) and not Red One (too heavy and too expensive).

So best of luck and you obviously have a great business going for yourself, which is very impressive.

...................

You don't need (even want) the shallow DOF that the Red offers. Red's big advantages are when it comes to digital cinema, where you have time to setup shots, use a focus puller, have a major set of sticks or steadycam operator and know when the talent is going to move and where they are going to stop. .................

JMHO, and truly, good luck w/ everything.

Yet people are shooting with the 5DII every day without pulling focus. In many ways this is a more limited camera than red one. The filmic look is desirable in many markets. The two lower scarlets only have a 2/3 sensor and will not have significant dof control.

At this point in the under $10K market it looks like the large Japanese companies, not red, will be the ones with the compelling products.

Dan Chung shot this a couple days ago with a 5D and 7D.

China's 60th Anniversary national day - timelapse and slow motion - 7D and 5DmkII on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/6853452)

Yet people are shooting with the 5DII every day without pulling focus. In many ways this is a more limited camera than red one. The filmic look is desirable in many markets. The two lower scarlets only have a 2/3 sensor and will not have significant dof control.


They must be using lenses that are well stopped down or using the camera's auto focus system. Either that or the subjects don't move that much, which to me is extremely un-cinematic.

This DOF thing does get obsessional at times, many productions with extremely high production values and most broadcast television use 2/3" cameras. Perhaps people are trying to create fantasy wedding videos, I don't know, but many human moments can be lost if they're out of focus. Viewing a video in 5 or 10 years time, the little moments caught of a now dead aunt doing something funny with a niece or the bride's mother will have more meaning to the clients.

They must be using lenses that are well stopped down or using the camera's auto focus system. Either that or the subjects don't move that much, which to me is extremely un-cinematic.

This DOF thing does get obsessional at times, many productions with extremely high production values and most broadcast television use 2/3" cameras. Perhaps people are trying to create fantasy wedding videos, I don't know, but many human moments can be lost if they're out of focus. Viewing a video in 5 or 10 years time, the little moments caught of a now dead aunt doing something funny with a niece or the bride's mother will have more meaning to the clients.

There are plenty of wedding that have been shot with the 5DII. To me a surprising number. Talented people use the technology well, others overdo everything and don't tell the story. But there's no need for theoretical discussions of how large sensors might be used - what is being done is available to see. The guys who know what they're doing stop down when appropriate. They also use the low light ability of the camera, which looks much better than what can be done with traditional video.

Television is shot with 2/3 because that's what's available. Sensor size positively correlates with production value. The movie District 9 was shot with red, and I thought that looked great. I think that's where red will play - on the higher end. Canon can build a $1500 camera body with a 35mm film size sensor at a profit. Red can't. I'm sure Sony will join the race after they realize they have no choice.

I'm pulling for red, however. I feel the large video companies have behaved like a oligopoly.

Television is shot with 2/3 because that's what's available. Sensor size positively correlates with production value.

If by "television" we are talking about news, EFP, sports etc., indeed those are generally 2/3" productions. There are still a number of prime time episodic series being shot on Varicams and F900's, some using F23's or Vipers (all 2/3" cameras). Still others are shot on F35's, Genesis, or RED. While the larger sensor is usually preferred for narrative work, I would stop short of saying that it a 2/3" camera is incapable of providing a lot of production value however. Probably if there is little to no production value in a shot to begin with, adding shallow focus to the mix will present the appearance of a higher end production to many, although I think this look is becoming so ubiquitious as to approach cliche.

I shot a feature on the F900 with some additional photography on the Genesis (i.e., 2/3" vs 35mm sensor). There's footage from both in the trailer (http://www.theperfectsleep.com/1080/1080.HTML). I have yet to talk to anyone who has seen the movie who can accurately and repeatedly pick out the Genesis footage--that is hopefully an indication that DOF is not the be-all and end-all.

People are shooting with the 35mm sized sensors, but they're in the minority. For what the vast majority of productions undertake the 2/3" sensors have huge advantages. One key element is the more compact size of a comprehensive kit, especially with single person crews.

There is much talk about the sensitivity advantages, but in practise it's rare that you actually need to go beyond 1500 asa anyway.

Sony may bring out HD video on their higher end stills cameras, but they and the other manufacturers will continue to sell their specialised video cameras, the larger sales in that market tend to be for the smaller cameras. I suspect Canon rely more on the stills market than the video market to make the sales figures for their camera. Mobile phones also offer video features.

But it's more than dof, especially looking at smaller than 2/3. Compare a 5DII shot to EX3. The EX3 will be better behaved as far as artifacts and aliasing, but the 5dII is, well...... maybe people should make there own comparisons. Plenty of footage of both on vimeo. It's also not like the large sensor cameras can't be stopped down. The smaller sensor 7D get to a large DOF easily except on long lenses.

As far as size, scarlet and the two canons are the size of large paperbacks. Of course the 1/3 pro cameras are much more functional. But we're talking about trends. I think we're on the brink of 1/3 sensor cameras becoming specialized, and large single sensors becoming the pro norm.

I shot a feature on the F900 with some additional photography on the Genesis (i.e., 2/3" vs 35mm sensor). There's footage from both in the trailer (http://www.theperfectsleep.com/1080/1080.HTML). I have yet to talk to anyone who has seen the movie who can accurately and repeatedly pick out the Genesis footage--that is hopefully an indication that DOF is not the be-all and end-all.

Could be a good editor too :) There's no doubt a $80,000 2/3 camera with a $50K zoom can take beautiful shots that can ressed up nicely on most material.

But how close does red come to panavision? How close will Canon/Sony/Nikon/JVC etc come to red?

But how close does red come to panavision? How close will Canon/Sony/Nikon/JVC etc come to red?

I know productions that have gone for the Sony F35 over the RED. There are many factors that come into the equation, what works for the budget, plus the schedule and that includes the post production.

The new Arri digital cameras currently look like the competitors for the Epic and they have the option of recording to either video or RAW. However, both the Arri and Epic are well out of the budget being discussed in this thread

The HDSLR cameras will have to improve their codec to compare to the RED. Although, much depends on how much they want to trade off spec wise for price and a more specialised market that RED happily can go for.

I agree with Don's post.

I think RED has been missing out on market share by the delay of the Scarlet.

Had they released a camera this year they would have owned the space as it will have better "video/film" ergonomics, audio and outputs than the VDSLRs.

I give my clients copied of DVD in HD, BluRay hasn't caught on for the majority of the household viewing experience out there. I use to remember when I shot weddings in the Betamax format but clients wanted vhs copies and Sony lost out to VHS even though Betamax was a vastly superior format. It's all in the marketing, you may have a better mousetrap but it's convincing the buyers that counts. RED in my opinion is the camera for the pros as it has the expandability and offers many options from the prosumer to the big time films. I also see that we are gradually moving away from the 3 chip system to employ a larger single sensor for video. That makes a lot of sense as in the manufacturing and alignment of a single chip would make the camera not only smaller but also eliminating the RGB prismatic thing altogether. I don't want to sound like a prophet but the 3 CCD arrangement will go the way of the Betamax and Dodo bird. I only wish that RED will have an affordable 6K interchangeable lens model that will also capture RAW stills and can be used as a photographic tool. The camera will be slightly bigger than the Canon 5D with interchangeable optical viewfinders when used as a camera, and locked up mirror when in video mode displaying a large 16:9 lcd on a flip out screen ala Pana DMC-GH1. Sensor would be 16:9 ( to fit in image circle afforded by 35 mm optics. Ideally a Foveon chip WOW.Nice to dream.

The Scarlet will have a higher price, is intended to more friendly to handling motion and records RAW. All of these a very different to the current crop of DSLR cameras, so the Scarlet has points which are extremely attractive to professionals. However, the higher price may very well rule it out for those people who want a large sensor, but don't really have the funds for a more specialised motion camera.

The video/film features are precisely those that the professionals look for in a camera. There was a lot of comments when the RED One has weaknesses in these areas that were sorted out in the end by third party manufacturers. I suspect RED want to introduce a more fully functioning product this time and certainly it looks like they've been working at this. Many of their current customers don't want them to rush onto the market too early.

I think it's important to realise that professionals work in a wide range of markets, so it won't be a case of one size catches all. For many productions RAW isn't the way to go and video formats will continue to serve those. If 3 sensor cameras get totally replaced by single sensor cameras remains to be seen, however, there are extremely compelling reasons to have a range of sensor sizes on professional cameras and not just 35mm.

If Red could supply the Scarlet lineup today, what has happened with Canon would be very good for their sales. I'm interested in the larger sensor Scarlet. What's the chance I can own one by Oct 2010? I'll bet less than 50%.
I'm not concerned with Scarlet/Epic being good. But I wonder about true mass production. At some undetermined future date being late will be too late for Red.

If people are using cameras as professional tools they definitely want them to be reliable and give high quality images appropriate to the market they are working in, combined with a robust workflow. I don't think the Epic will sell in the numbers of a DSLR, which would count as true mass production, more likely a few thousand at the most and given the higher price, likely less than the RED One production run.

I'd expect the Scarlet series to sell in higher numbers, but if they could match say the Z1 would be hard to tell. Although, this may depend on how well the RAW workflow become accepted by producers and if people are interested in the colour correction possibilities. But given how many people just shoot JPEG rather RAW on stills cameras, I suspect the traditional video formats will continue to have a lot of followers.

The 35mm sensor Scarlets will much more expensive cameras than the current HD video DSLR cameras. I also suspect they're looking at different markets, RED's on-line community is extremely demanding in what they want.

I have a hunch that the one thing that really held the Scarlet development back was autofocus. The original Scarlet was 2/3rd's sensor, fixed lens w/ autofocus for $3.5K.

This camera is still on the brochure, but it's not going to be their first Scarlet release. I have to think that autofocus is very complicated, esp for moving subjects. It's also constantly being tweaked, improved, rethought. I think it may be a technology that just proved too much for Red at this time. Just a guess.

I think Red is a long way from releasing a fixed lens Scarlet. They would need to support the unwashed masses in post production. They would be nuts to do that at this point.

Jarred (sp?) said a couple days ago that the Epic for current Red owners is first. It seems to me they would take care of all the big screen DP demand first. That would be epics, and that would seem to take a long time.

If I'm right about inexpensive scarlet, those users will have more choices from other companies next years.

Any suggestion where I can download some Raw Red footage to try with Vegas 9. Thanks