I'm trying to find a budget (first in kit) HMI, and was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with the Ianiro HMIs and whether or not this is a reasonable price:

$800 4000 Ianiro Siro Fresnel Systems Condition = VG
Includes: Head, Barndoor, Ballast, Scrim Bag, Scrims (Single, Double, Half Single, Half Double) Head Cable, and Lamp


I'm looking at these two places for a used HMI:

http://www.kayelites.com/GKP4000.htm
http://www.kayelites.com/UsedLighting.htm

http://www.pyramid-films.com/desisti_2_5k_fresnel_hmi_system.htm

...and eBay as well.

I can personally vouch for the Desisti. Well built and at $1200 for head AND ballast, that's a deal and a half!!

I have never heard of Ianiro before an $800 price tag would lead me to question the quality or the condition. That's a really low price for a 4k head and ballast, though from the picture it looks pretty solid.

Thanks, I sent Pyramid an inquiry about both the Desisti and the Ianiro.

I bought a couple of Ianiro 1K fresnels from Pyramid a while back. Service was good and the equipment (while scuffed and used looking) worked great. Haven't tried their HMI stuff, but I have no complaints.

Ianiro makes pretty good stuff - it gets used a lot of Europe but you don't hear as much about it here in the States. They're also the makers of the well-known Redhead and Blonde open-face lights.

Electronic Ballast?

Probably not. Almost all of Pyramid's HMI gear uses a magnetic ballast. Not surprising considering the prices they sell at.

So, are the primary issues with electronic vs magnetic is:

1. weight

2. on/off/strike time

3. and flicker? ...which if I understand correctly is only an issue at certain high shutter speeds, and not an issue with 24p?

What is the wattage (if you'll excuse the pun!) of those Ianiros? That's a hell of a good price...

I'm in the UK and have used Ianiro blondes and redheads many times and found them to be very good quality - I have no reason to doubt the same would be true of the HMI fresnel fixtures.

Sorry, of course, 4k. My bad.

That's a hell of a lot of light for the money - I'd go for it, if I were you...

Ianiro and Desisti are great, the ballast is the deciding factor.

Magentic is okay as long as your AC mains current is conditioned and steady at 60Hz. Flicker can occur if the line is not conditioned. An electronic ballast can handle more adverse line conditions and still not flicker, especially on a generator.

A 4K HMI will require about 35-38 Amps of power @ 120V. So you are tying into the A/C mains power at the location, running off a generator, or you can plug onto a stove outlet and get 50Amps at 120V with the appropriate step down transfomer/breakout box. This can be rented, depending on your area. Here in NYC, there are a lot of gas ranges, so finding that sweet 50A source is harder. When I lived in VT, they were in every house.

If you are running off a generator, you will need to be sure that it is blimped and crystal controlled so that it stays at 60Hz, more expensive to rent, but worth it, especially if you are using HMI's. Consult the Sound Dept. for placement. You'll need 60Amp, or 100Amp distro cable to get power from the genny to the location. This can end up being hundreds of feet, the genny is LOUD.

Live tie-in is only done by qualified electrician and even then, be very careful. Use the proper electrical distro gear 100A boxes and stingers.

Talk with an experienced gaffer and get his/her help, the rental house too.

Mark, thanks for the additional info. I think I'm going to try to find a way ($) to get an electronic ballast (not as much because of the flicker as I believe it's not as much an issue for DV shooting 24P, but I think the weight of the ones I was looking at was on the order of 60-75lbs!)


Regarding the power requirements, what's typically the largest HMI that can run off a standard 120V/20amp outlet?

Flicker is flicker whether you are shooting at 24p, 24FPs, 60i, it'll show up in the shot. I had several HMI's running off a non crystal genny and had a real bad flicker problem with the SDX900. Ugh, it was awful. It was a music video so one could maybe explain it away, but it looked like dog squeeze.

I suggest getting a 1200W PAR. That's the largest luminaire you can run off house power since they draw between 13-19 Amps, depending on the maker of the ballast. A PAR gives you the most bang for the buck, different lenses give you different angles of coverage and they can't be beat for raw power. A 2500W HMI PAR, the next size up, draws over 30 Amps, so you can't really plug that into the wall. HMI's require a warm up period, so don't be surprised when you strike it up that the light looks weird.

Arri 1200 PAR's are the best, maybe the LTM's are next as far as output, but they are all in the same ballpark, but they are expensive. Pretty much everyone makes one and I know I've seen Desisti, Arri, Cinemills, LTM and Sunrays for sale at Pyramid and Kaye.

You can also look around at other manufactureres and see about getting a deal buying direct, some mfr's do deals like Sunray, others refer you to their distributors, it's worth calling around. There are bunch of other manufacturers too, K5600, Dedolight, Altman. I'm sure there's more.

Thanks again Mark for even more great food for thought, really appreciate it!

Regarding the flicker/shutter speed, I'm really not sure how to investigate the science behind the claims (the logic that is, of course an actual test with several magnetic ballast units would work, but I don't have that luxury!)

The following is the comment I've been using as my technical reference:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=20208&page=8&pp=10&highlight=flicker

"24P is a safe frame rate to shoot at with magnetic ballasts. I haven't spent hardly any time with the DayPhoto's yet, but in testing my other magnetic-ballast HMI's there aren't any flicker problems. You can get flicker problems if you crank up the shutter speed, major flicker with 1/500 for example, but at regular shutter speeds you should have no problem at all at 24P, 30P or 60i."

That quote was in reference to AC power; Mark's talking about using an unregulated generator causing flicker, and he's absolutely right. You want to use a high-quality crystal-sync generator if you're using HMI's or fluorescents.

Shawn, You are most welcome. As Barry noted, I'm talking about the hazards of a generator. If the generator doesn't have a crystal to regulate the electrical power frequency, the result is flicker because the generator is not giving 60 HZ (60 cycles) alternating current.

Mark and Barry, thanks for the follow up and clarification.

I suggest getting a 1200W PAR...

Arri 1200 PAR's are the best, maybe the LTM's are next as far as output, but they are all in the same ballpark, but they are expensive.

I'm looking around, what do you think the low end for a used one would (or should) be?